Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

graphicguy · March 2010

gagrice....yeah, these reports are just coming in more and more. Floormats. sticky pedals....none of them are the obvious answer. Yet, the one obvious answer, Toyota says has been thoroughly investigated by their massive "invisible" engineering dept and dismissed the claims....even though other experts have tried to point them in the right direction.

How many people think that Exponent is going to come to the same conclusions as Toyota? I think that's a foregone conclusion. Does anyone think that Exponent is employed to do anything but give Toyota the answers they want them to hear? Kind of like having the answers to the final exam a day before the exam takes place.

Sharon.....considering the SEC investigation, I think one could draw some conclusions. That is, they're providing evidence to the DOJ. Why else would the SEC be involved? Then there's the FBI raid on Toyota's suppliers. Who knows what they're looking for? My guess, evidence of either collusion, and/or documents showing Toyota's "book of rules/knowledge" that Biler talked about.

anythngbutgm · March 2010

link title

Back in the congressional hearings, Representative Bobby Rush (D-Ill.) played another tragedy for the committee. It was the case mentioned in my last column, that of the Toyota Avalon that on Dec. 26, 2009, went into a pond and killed four people in Southlake, Tex. Rush apparently felt he should go on record before Congress about this because one of the individuals killed in that tragedy had a relative in his district.

Rush's emotionally charged statement concerns a case that continues to reverberate. Yet it should be noted that Southlake police saw no evidence that the driver attempted to brake before the Avalon entered the water. One eyewitness claimed to have passed the car prior to the accident and been unable to see a driver sitting up.

More troubling is the insinuation in the media by the driver's widow that the car had been taken several times to Texas Toyota of Grapevine for unintended acceleration with no problem found. The family's attorney, Randy Roberts of Tyler, Tex., repeated her allegations this past weekend in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. However, Chris Grady, general manager of Texas Toyota, has already turned over the service records on that Avalon to both Toyota and Mr. Roberts. And those records show that the Avalon had been in their shop once and once onlyfor nothing more than an oil change. There were no complaints on any malfunction whatsoever .

imidazol97 · March 2010

>More troubling is the insinuation in the media by the driver's widow that the car had been taken several times to Texas Toyota of Grapevine for unintended acceleration with no problem found. The family's attorney, Randy Roberts of Tyler, Tex., repeated her allegations this past weekend in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. However, Chris Grady, general manager of Texas Toyota, has already turned over the service records on that Avalon to both Toyota and Mr. Roberts. And those records show that the Avalon had been in their shop once and once onlyfor nothing more than an oil change. There were no complaints on any malfunction whatsoever

Hmmmmm.

With the record of suppressing data for NHTSA reporting, I venture that they don't log complaints about SUA at the toyota stores. They're just treated as chaff--unnecessary stuff that they throw up in the air and it blows away in the wind.

There! All fixed! :P

sharonkl · March 2010

This is the shocking, startling, heart wrenching tape that spread like wildfire across the US. CHP released this tape to the public. I am sure CHP was very angry, as they always, always protect their own. CHP would not release this tape and hurt these individuals surviving family members, unless they had a huge message to give to the public.

Many of you may not like me posting this. But this is the horrible reality of what happened in their own words. This poor nice family lost their lives in a real life SUA/UA incident.

The is a reminder to all of us. As humans, I know we don't like to hear this tape. But it is good to remind us SUA/UA can take away the precious human life of a loved one in a flash. This family is not just a statistic. It's good for us to keep reminding DHTSA and Toyota of this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03m7fmnhO0I&feature=related

My heartfelt support and sympathy is sent to all the family members of this poor family.

gagrice · March 2010

I venture that they don't log complaints about SUA at the toyota stores.

I can tell you for a FACT that Toyota dealers do not log all complaints. I had a list for them to check on my 5000 mile service. Most were "that is the way it is supposed to be". Or "bring it in while it is failing". The next time I asked if they had gotten any info on my complaint for the NAV and XM radio. They had no record of it. They don't seem to keep a nation wide database of troubles either. The two other dealers I have used for service did not see any complaints from me. That is Toyota's idea of open and honest. The customer opens the complaint and the dealer says honestly we do not have a record of it.

sharonkl · March 2010

Remember when I reported taking my RAV4 with two complaints in and they didn't write my complaints on the work order for some reason??? I was stupid twice, but in future that practice will not be tolerated.

This Mrs. Roberts should have a work, receipt order. Hopefully they made sure complaint written on order. If they didn't - oh no.

Is this Toyota routine practice noit to write complaints on work order??? I don't know?? Anyone else know from their own experience??

jofallon · March 2010

True for me on my last visit. This happened to me in the beginning of December, and I mentioned the problem to the service manager when I brought the car in for its routine servicing that weekend. He ignored what I said with a fixed smile. Since there was, really, nothing he could do back then, I let it pass. Did they record anything? it wasn't on the bill of work I got.

graphicguy · March 2010

Sharon....sad, shocking, disheartening, heartbreaking. No brakes either....just like Mrs Smith's ordeal, only this one ended much more tragically.

THIS....THIS REASON ALONE is why the heat should stay on Toyota. TOYOTA....Fix your damned cars, and fix them right. This could have been prevented if they would have 'fessed up to begin with and, if not cured UA, at least instituted brake over ride to their UA affected models and vehicles (at least for the current recalls, and those which they're trying to pass off as "only" having floormat issues or alleged sticky pedals).

sharonkl · March 2010

It's like my parents always told me when I was a kid who did something wrong..."you can tell us about it now, and take your punishment. Or, you can try to lie your way out of it, and make it 10 times worse."

Hey, I think they should hire you as CEO. Your parents raised you well, taught you good lessons about being honest. I don't like to see dishonesty either. My trust in those involved is lost, and it will be quite difficult to earn back too.

Toyota appears to have lost/or never had a good honorable approach. I don't know which. I do know not all corporations approach/address a crisis as Toyota is doing/has done.

Yikes, my lack of patience at this stage of the unraveling situation is showing.

carbuff1171 · March 2010

I'm guessing this was intended to be a reply to a different post rather than mine about an age threshold, but no worries.

I do like your use of the name Ditza. I think its more appropriate than Nitsa. :-)

sharonkl · March 2010

So far three of us have had complaints we lodged when we took our models into Toyota service center to be serviced - no complaints on work order. My original copies to do the work, and the resulting copies of completed work reveal no complaints. I too, did not address then, even though I saw were not on there. I had blogged this in past.

Second time I had to stand politiely firm while they tracked down the agent who first waited on me. The second agent had tried to tell me I never asked for my electrical to be checked. I told him sorry, I really did. I said please get the man I spoke with first and who wrote my work order up. Second agent said I was being difficult. I said no I really am trying not to be. Please just get first agent. I want to speak with him. Second agent was upset, but finally did call and paged first agent. First agent called back and I spoke with him. He stated he had just reprogrammed my lighting to revert it back to the front seat area of my vehicle. I told second agent thank you. Second agent sent me off. Second agent never apologized to me. Smile - just evaluating this delaership and may switch. Or maybe agents had bad day??? Found strange though - my husband and I had always had good experience at Ford and BMW.

I know very well legally what this means. Took many CE courses on avoiding legal issues in medical charting. If it's not charted, difficult to address. For Toyota - not on work order - legally didn't happen.

Did we just find something??? I wonder if any of the other model Toyota blogs here at Edmunds have anything to add to this issue we have each had??

sharonkl · March 2010

Please know this was not intended for you. I sincerely apologize if I came across that way. Actually was someone else. I even forget who posted first. Was someone new. When age started just was trying to convey not always true. Was some mention of discarding all complaints over 65.

H-mmm when did I use Ditza??? Was that for DHTSA? Maybe just one of my notorious typo errors?? If so whoops and sorry..

sharonkl · March 2010

Duh, I went back and saw what you meant. How funny I did rename, didn't I!!! That was no typo. Just me getting my letters all confused. Think I'd better go get my mental competency test done!! Smile.

sharonkl · March 2010

Any report from Exponent will most likely be what only Toyota wants. Yes, just like getting the answers the day before the exam. They will help defend Toyota with their questionable reports, be expert witnesses at Toyota Trials, provide more reports to give to oversight committee and NHTSA, etc.

SEC, DOJ, FBI - h-mmmm??? Something??? What??? But I would think only Toyota in Japan has that little "Book of Rules/Knowledge" that is also to include problems they had & addressed. I don't think Toyota would have one copy here too, would they??

imidazol97 · March 2010

>So far three of us have had complaints we lodged when we took our models into Toyota service center to be serviced - no complaints on work order.

Thank you for telling the story. I suspect it's far more general as a way of avoiding data records of problems for toyota. Maybe we all should buy them note cards and send a package to each story so they can write down the actual complaints when people do make them instead of giving them the intimidation of cold shoulder as your 2nd agent did to you. I read you post as he was actually being aggressive at defying you and your request to see the first agent who didn't record it.

deltheking · March 2010

Precious lives are lost due to alcohol DWI and smoking..Why dont you post some videos of those??Drunk driving kills 35000 each year...Sheesh!!! Stupid hysteria !! :sick: :sick:

sharonkl · March 2010

I really hated to post that You Tube Video. But somehow felt it was a good for all of us - remind us how this crisis started. The tape is very shocking and it broke my heart to listen to that poor young man's call for help. Help remind us these statistics we always refer to are really people and possibly could be our loved one.

Too bad Toyota didn't address w brake override systems when they installed ETC back in 2002 and complaints UA/SUA increased x4. System was available then?? NHTSA did not follow their mission statement - re: public safety & and Toyota appears did not think of "their customers first."

Yes, just fix problem on all those vehicles out there.

explorerx4 · March 2010

a while back someone posted that this was going to be a big numbers issue. i guess they were right.
picture this:
you go to the dealer for your recall.
is that the one for the brakes, mats. pedal, hose, ....?
of course, they are going to reflash your ECU, if they can, without saying anything.

sharonkl · March 2010

Many thanks for this alert. Another problem. I went off and found more reports too. Seems like this is only voluntary though until March 31, 2010.

sharonkl · March 2010

So you think they will reflash ECU now and not say anything??? Ford told me when they did one for me once. At that time I was more igonorant, and didn't think much about it.

Are we just being suspicious after everything, or does it really occur???

gagrice · March 2010

Drunk driving kills 35000 each year.

You seem to want to get at the truth. Where did that little tidbit come from. Are you saying all but 2000 auto deaths per year are caused by drunk drivers?

Toyota has brought the hysteria on themselves. I don't know why you blame the posters here and the media. If Toyota would address their problems instead of paying off a few with high powered attorneys. Trying to blame it on the customer. I remember very well how Toyota treated 2004 Prius owners with stalling. They would tow in the vehicle reset the computer and tell them nothing was wrong. Until the NHTSA said hold on there are too many complaints for this to be a non issue. Basically Toyota has let the customer do the testing of their vehicles the last 10 years and they did not keep up with the complaints.

imidazol97 · March 2010

In one of the other forums on the net about toyota vehicles, a poster said that a regional meeting for toyota dealer reps at some level included the owner loyalty as one of 5 things that would carry them through. This was before the hearings in DC!!!!!!!!!!!!

I read today that toyota is going to give big incentives to buy toyota after they report their sales figures for the month. I recall some poster complaining that other companies, GM, had offered an incentive for toyota folk to buy GM; will the incentives be considered out-of-place here because of the problems posed about the safety of the toyota vehicles themselves? They haven't been exonerated yet?

explorerx4 · March 2010

this been their SOP for years and helped build their 'flawless' perception. it's one of the things that is getting to be public knowledge, for a lot of people. if it makes your car safer, it is a good thing, even if they don't tell you about it.

graphicguy · March 2010

There's no hysteria....just people who want the truth from Toyota.....not a bunch of "I don't knows", or some marketing videos telling us how their "ghost" engineers thoroughly tested and researched everything and try to foist those bogus (and cheap) floormat/sticky pedals on us.

People have been in accidents, and have even died over this Toyota malfeasance. And yeah, I'm pretty steamed about the whole sordid Toyota denial, dismiss, finger pointing, blame shifting attitude about it.

Correct it Toyota. Do it the right way. People's lives are at stake. And, it's not just those who drive your Toyota and Lexus vehicles, butt also those of us who share the road with your vehicles at risk.

Show us the alleged broken "sticky pedals" that has allegedly caused this. Quit worrying about your stockpile of cash. Worry about that after you fix your cars, and make them safe, again.

This isn't the time to be cranking up your PR or damage control machine. That's not what we want, or need. We need your cars to be safe.

gagrice · March 2010

All Toyota would need to do to stop the media and the bad press, is tell the owners, we will install a brake override system in every DBW Vehicle we have built. It may take us a year or more. We will do that so people can drive their Toyota with confidence again. So far it seems that Toyota would rather spend a $billion on damage control and attorneys, than just doing the right thing.

gizzer777 · March 2010

The only reason I mentioned it was it seems to be the Toyota way!

My first 09 Corolla Brake vacuum line recall was not labeled mandatory and I never even got the the pedal recall notice (had to call my dealer!)

Seems this V6 recall (oil line) can not only destroy your engine but can have safety issues as well if I read it correctly

gagrice · March 2010

I think there is a lot of confusion within the Toyota organization. I got a call to bring my 2007 Sequoia in for the Recall. I called and they just wanted to set up an appointment. I asked what was being recalled and after about 5 minutes on hold they said my vehicle was not on the list. I have friends with a 2008 Tacoma and they have not gotten anything. It is every man for himself with these recalls.

explorerx4 · March 2010

don't fall for they hype. it's a 'limited service campaign'. only 930+ thousand vehicles are included.

sharonkl · March 2010

I like your statement "The Toyota Way."

So you never even got a recall letter?? That is not good. I heard there were others too.

This oil line does seem like damage could end up to be catastrophic.
And of course - "not a safety problem" per Toyota.

sharonkl · March 2010

My understanding about this
(1)Owners must call - no letters sent
(2)Any models brought in for service in the campaign listed models before March 31st will get new hoses
(3)Ends March 31, 2010

Is that correct??

sharonkl · March 2010

Yes, it could very well be a way to avoid complaints, but also still feel legal issues exist as well.

Thanks for interpreting my interaction with that agent. Smile - he did get a little upset at me. I know I made him even more upset when I kept smiling and wouldn't move. Oh well. Was resolved. I will evaluate further to see if I continue with this dealership service center or not. .

explorerx4 · March 2010

you must know more about it than i do. when i went back i didn't see anything about a 3-31-10 drop dead date. sorry for the terminology.

carbuff1171 · March 2010

That's right, rounded up slightly it's only one million cars. A million here, a million there, pretty soon you're talking a few cars.

sharonkl · March 2010

From the google finance market page. did Toyota search for market share price - lots of news releases there.Can expand search.

Whoops it is until 2013 not 2010. Sorry about that

Toyota Motor Corporation To Replace Oil Hose In 933,800 Cars-Reuters
2:50pm EST
Reuters reported that Toyota Motor Corporation will replace an oil hose in some 933,800 vehicles in the United States due to the risk of a potential leak that if left untreated could damage the engine. On some Camry, Avalon, Rav4 and Lexus vehicles equipped with V6 engines, the rubber portion of the engine oil hose may develop a small hole, potentially causing oil leakage and engine failure. The service campaign covers 2007-2010 model year Camry, 2005-2009 Avalon, 2006-2009 Rav4, 2007-2008 Lexus ES 350 and 2007-2009 RX 350 vehicles. Owners of the vehicles can have the oil hose fixed at Toyota dealerships at no charge under a safety campaign that will run until March 31, 2013. - - - - - (repeated)

explorerx4 · March 2010

with all the other issues going on, i find it difficult to believe all the affected vehicles can be upgraded with the 'fix' by the end of the month.

imidazol97 · March 2010

>Toyota Motor Corporation will replace an oil hose in some 933,800 vehicles in the United States

It looks like toyota is doing more to help unemployment, at least of mechanics and service-related personnel, than our government is. All mechanics, sorry technicians, are probably working on accelerator pedals and engines leaking oil.

gagrice · March 2010

Don't forget the Corolla steering issue. That could be even worse than UA. If the cars do as owners claim. They can give you the ride of your life. Toyota has not recalled as they do not know what causes the problem. More cars sent to market with poor testing.

This bit from Toyota should be a real confidence builder if you own a 2009-10 Corolla.

Toyota sold nearly 1.3 million Corollas worldwide last year, including nearly 300,000 in the United States, where it trailed only Camry as Toyota's most popular model.

The executive, Shinichi Sasaki, said drivers may feel as though they are losing control over the steering, but it was unclear why. He mentioned problems with the braking system or tires as possible underlying causes. U.S. officials are also investigating.

Is the Toyota spokesman saying the Corolla also has braking issues? We know they sell their vehicles with the cheapest tires known to man.

sharonkl · March 2010

A first in USA Kia Plant just opened - over 1000+ workers. That will help also.

sharonkl · March 2010

I just saw this report tonight from business section.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-02-26/toyota-woes-said-to-lie-in-cost-cuts- -growth-targets-update1-.html

iluvmysephia1 · March 2010

Basically Toyota has let the customer do the testing of their vehicles the last 10 years and they did not keep up with the complaints.

Sadly, what you are saying may indeed be truth here. Hearing that 911 tape on you tube was heartbreaking. They must have been terrified. And for what?

Toyota should've dove in to this and fixed these problems years ago and calling anyone hysterical about it now is just being a sourpuss. And a griper and poor sport.

Those poor people in the off-duty CHP Officer's rental Lexus. It would be awful to be riding in an out-of-control missile, one that will only stop once it's crashed in to something. And it is wrong logic to blame the driver, even an off-duty CHP Officer "who should've known how to drive better."

Anyone who will take their emotions out of this can see that that is faulty and unfair logic. Fix your dad-gum cars Toyota and fix them right. This is ridiculous. Maybe just dip in to all of those Executive retirement funds or something. Spend lavishly on safety. Honestly convince us that you've carefully and fully-completely fixed all affected cars. Don't skip a single needy Toyota, either. Fix them all. You've been living high on the hog for years. You've had Consumer Reports in your pocket praising all of your rigs ad naseum(literally naseum AFAIC)for years upon boring years. I haven't really been impressed, though. Didn't believe all the praise and hype.

Remind me to shun any and all Toyota products from now on. And ever.

And. Ever. Period. Amen. Don't let your mind wander to a Randy Travis song at this point. Even if it should do something like that. Over and out.

sharonkl · March 2010

I don't mind the updates to improve a small defect they find. But to not tell me - I do get upset. I see this as deceit, even though it is good. for me. I see it as if they deceive me here, they will/may deceive me elsewhere. The other may not be good.

I just would like to see a more honest approach. Tell me. Update. Oh ok.. No big deal. Smile - Just my personal opinion.

sharonkl · March 2010

Great response!

The all inclusive resulting effects caused/inflicted as a result of SUA/UA are quite numerous and usually not considered/mentioned when addressing. You did - everyone who shares road with these vehicles/bystanders.

popsavalon · March 2010

Sharon, and others, to see what a disaster the VVTi oil line fix really is, Google the site toyotav6oillinescandal. Toyota is replacing the existing rubber line with another rubber line at the dealers, but they started using all metal lines at the factory in mid 2008. Certain vehicles, Lexus and RAV4, have had the metal lines for several years. Just like the UA, there are numerous documented instances of the problems .

revit · March 2010

TOKYO, March 2 (Reuters) - Toyota Motor Corp said on Tueday that its campaign to replace oil hoses that could potentially leak and damage the engine would reach 1.6 million cars globally.

Toyota had said on Monday that it would replace a hose in some 933,800 vehicles in the United States due to the risk of a potential leak and engine failure. It is not considered a safety issue and the vehicles are not being recalled, Toyota said.

The 1.6 million figure includes 76,000 car owners in Canada, 45,000 owners in Japan, an additional 315,000 owners in the United States and 230,000 owners in a total of 90 other countries including Europe, a Toyota spokeswoman in Tokyo said.

imidazol97 · March 2010

>Toyota had said on Monday that it would replace a hose in some 933,800 vehicles

Are the replacements metal lines or are they still rubber hoses?

lemko · March 2010

...to build a good reputation, but only a couple of months to totally trash it. To paraphrase the last lines of "White Heat": Toyota. It made it to the top of the world and it blew up right in its face.

beachfish2 · March 2010

"There's no hysteria...."

We must be reading different posts and watching different news shows. There certainly is hysteria.

John

graphicguy · March 2010

Well, I suppose you could call it hysteria if safety coverups, withholding evidence and documents requested and required by NHTSA as the Congressional Oversight Committee states.

You can call it hysteria if you like. I'll call it what it is.....a lack of regard and compliance with U.S. regulations and laws. This is now way past what the cause and alleged fixes for Toyota's UA problems.

Electornics/software glitches, floormats and sticky pedals are the least of Toyota's problems right now.

popsavalon · March 2010

Revit, Toyota's fix for vehicles with ruptured oil lines has been to replace the defective part with another rubber line. There is an all metal line available (Toyota has been using it on new V-6 vehicles for over a year), but dealers make all sorts of excuses about installing it. Toyota is also saying this is not a safety issue, but I would say that dumping all the engine oil under the wheels of a vehicle at highway speed might qualify. I purchased the metal line for under $40, and got it installed under warranty on my 2007 Avalon BEFORE I had a problem.

Google toyotav6oillinescandal for a very comprehensive site about how bad this problem really is.

lemko · March 2010

It'll just be hysteria until he or a friend or relative is killed or injured. Then it'll be a serious issue that must be immediately addressed.

Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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