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This particular case is valid incident as of today's date. CHP stated incident happened. CHP has not made any further announcements. . Investigation still ongoing. Final report will probably be published and released in the future.
There is no money to be gained in this particular case. Not addressing anyother suits. Can't as don't know anything about those cases.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_03lbr-Jw&feature=player_embedded
Also answers the question if a Pruis can be shifted into neutral while accelerating and at higher speed, note she was going 80 MPH and full throttle, had no problem with the car accepting the move to neutral.
also, don't forget the vehicle in the video was operating normally.
it was an educational video. neutral is just a flick to the left.
You are so far in left field it is a joke. And it is NOT illegal to use a cell phone in CA while driving. If you are using a headset or hands free phone.
Your cult like worship of ToyLex is noted. Toyota is finally getting their just dues for screwing customer for over 45 years in CA. Myself included.
...We,...we...? How many mice do you have in your pockets...??
The "guidance" involved applying the REAR implemented E-brake along with an upward incline in the roadbed. Since normal braking is heavily BIAS toward the front, front DRIVEN wheels, it might not have ocurred to the driver that rear braking, even "light e-braking, might be much more efficient at actual braking in this instance
there was a runaway camry in the town next to mine today.
The officer found the floor mat properly placed and the accelerator and brake pedals in correct resting position
Per San Diego CBC report
The driver, a 76-year-old woman, had been dropping off items for a tag sale at the church later this month when the accident happened, Plumley said. She tried hitting the brakes and putting the car in neutral, but it didn't stop or slow down
I don't think there are anymore of these incidents than there has been all along. It is just now they are getting National attention. Before the vehicle was hauled to the dealership. Computer reset and told nothing wrong with this car. See ya bye. We have had people report runaway Prius for years. The Toyota cult would call them every kind of idiot. And that is the last we would hear from them. It would have been interesting to hear the outcome of some of the legitimate sounding complaints. Maybe now we will. I am sure Toyota is not pleased with the attention their cars are getting.
http://www.justicenewsflash.com/2010/03/09/suv-struck-5-people-brooklyn-church-p- arking-lot-1-dead-4-injured_201003093598.html
Jeep:
http://www.freep.com/article/20100310/NEWS03/3100328/1001/News/SUV-hits-school-6- -kids-injured
Lincoln:
http://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/article/20100224/NEWS02/2240316/Driver-strike- s-2-pedestrians-kills-one-in-Rutland-parking-lot
In fact, maybe all cars need to be recalled?
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/02/allstate-seven-out-- of-10-hit-and-runs-in-parking-lots/1
It's never the driver, always the car..
you can post those links on the appropriate brand forums, if you want to.
i did read the lincoln story.
the driver was in reverse, hit 2 people, stepped on the brakes, but due to snow on the ground ran over them.
if this was you driving, would you drive back forward or not move the car?
For example, if sitting still in a Prius in Drive with the engine running and your foot on the brake, pressing on the gas will do nothing. The engine will not rev or respond at all. It is designed for the engine to be at idle if one's foot is on the brake. During an UA event, pushing on the brake may slow the car, but the engine remains at full throttle. The computer is not doing its normal job as it would in a controlled youtube demonstration.
I do care about this issue, own a Toyota Venza (first Toyota I've owned.. good timing on my part, haha. Had a Dodge Charger before that, maybe I'm bad luck :surprise: ). If there is a real issue with the DBW system I hope it is corrected and soon. I have had my doubts in the past but lately I am more open to believing there is a problem, but I'm not going to believe every driver who owns a Toyota claiming UA. I do know there are drivers who shouldn't be allowed near a steering wheel, but that is for another discussion.
my position, which i made clear many months ago, is that it is a rare event.
no reason to just assume there is no problem, though.
although the story with the lincoln doesn't have a whole lot to go on, i didn't see anything referencing UA.
i was kind of lumping you into the group lead by 'dre3, until you provided background to your posts, not that it matters other than this thread.
so far, i am not willing to consider what is going on is covered by toyota's 'corrective actions'.
Record of recent bankruptcy Ch. 7 being upside down by more than 70,000 dollars.
Record of being upside down on 2 houses.
Record of having more than $50,000 in credit card debts.
This guy reaks of fraud and corruption, so much for you anti-Toyota haters and your "star" witness.
Next UA claimant please. This case is dismissed as frivolous! *slams gavel* :mad:
In fact, if you appreciate that all Prius models come from the factory with Brake Override already designed in, this one event proves the problem has to be in the electronics. The police officer testified that he saw the man had his brakes on, and the officer could smell them. With Brake Override, it is supposed to be impossible for one's foot to be on the brake and the engine remain at full throttle even if you are holding the gas pedal to the floor unless there is a problem with the electronics. The electronics operate the Brake Override function as well as having exclusive authority over the Electronic Throttle Control.
It seems they are coming here to vent their past frustrations with past D3 failures and couldn't be happier to see Toyota in the lime light now. It's interesting to see how warped and biased a mind can become.
Maybe, it depends on what's triggering the fault. If it's the cruise that usually is a highway only use, when there is low to moderate volume. Maybe you're not hearing so much about low speed issues because a vehicle going 30mph can be braked, whereas a car already going 65mph and then accelerating has too much momentum and kinetic energy for the brakes to slow it down, before they start overheating. So there are numerous possibilities.
We never hear of stories where the "throttle doesn't work" meaning if you depress it, nothing happens.
You're right. The media doesn't cover daily breakdowns where cars won't run, and they are put on the back of a AAA tow-vehicle and taken to the dealer.
This makes me suspect of not only the San Diego Prius incident, but almost every other story that's out there that's not related to the floormat problem.
So now that that Prius has been looked at for 2-3 days, I would suspect that we could get some sort of preliminary report if the guy was trying to pull a fraud? I would suspect that this vehicle would be getting examined 24/7 and it's not going to take months to see a report. Or will the results be kept "secret", or the vehicle is shipped by slow-boat back to japan for more study, until everyone forgets about it?
You would be hard pressed to put me in that category. If you check the UAW thread you would see I am one of the most aggressive opponents of that bunch of scoundrels. And if I hated Toyota I would not have bought a 2007 Sequoia. I have never been a fan of Toyota dealers. They are not as concerned with after sales customer service. My best experience over the last 25 years is with Bob Stall Chevrolet and Drew Ford/VW. They both have given me excellent inexpensive service on vehicles I bought in other states and used in So California. My opinion of Toyota dealers goes back to 1964. While not the worst I have encountered. They were far from the best. Just below average. Exactly where they get rated every year by JD Powers.
That said, I think that Toyota did build some decent vehicles in the 1980s and 1990s. The quality went down over the last decade. Not all vehicles at once. I think the 2007 Sequoia was the last of the breed of quality vehicles. Most of my complaints are with cheap electronics from Denso. You know the company that builds their ECMs and other parts that could be responsible for UA. My experience is their Denso NAV made in India is a POC.
I think that Sikes made a big mistake letting the CHP release his car to a Toyota dealer. The Toyota damage control people have already tried to smear the guys credibility by spreading his financial condition to all the media. That is what Toyota is paying Exponent BIG BUCKS to do. What chance is there the car will get an honest appraisal at a Toyota Dealer? :confuse:
The two-page document, sent to president of the company Katsuaki Watanabe in 2006, warned of systematic threats to car safety.
Damningly, it highlighted 'safety sacrifices' made as the company allegedly put profit before the well-being of customers.
The memo, written by a group of long-term employees, pinpointed inadequate development time for new models and a general drop in standards.
Authors claimed manufacturing was now done by 'amateurs' and that highly skilled workers had been sidelined.
They also predicted that the practices would eventually threaten the company's survival if changes were not made.
Toyota, the world's largest car maker, is facing a crisis of unprecedented proportions
A US congressional committee is investigating the crisis and demanded the memo, written in October 2006.
It was compiled by the 20-member All Toyota Labour Union headed by Tadao Wakatsuki, who had worked at the firm's Motomachi factory for 45 years.
The memo included points that:
— Between 2000 to 2005 Toyota was forced to recall more than million cars, a higher proportion of total vehicle recalls than other car makers.
More
You are close. The majority are not UAW sympathizers or Toyota haters, they basically dislike the smug attitude of Toyota OWNERS. :P
Only by default.
It's really that the HSD firmware is DESIGNED to take a different execution path when the brakes are used. The firmware is designed to enter the regenerative braking mode WHENEVER the brakes are used.
No question that the gas pedal should have been IGNORED with the brake lights on.
The first minority set takes the same view as a few members here. That is, Toyota can do no wrong....disregarding the complaints, looking for a reason....any reason to deflect blame.
Then there are the majority who state the same thing that the workers in Japan have stated. That is, it's been a long time coming. Cost cutting has taken its toll. And, that the emphasis shifted in recent years from building a good vehicle, to building one that had as much cost as possible removed from them.
So, I've heard both sides. Yet, the same Toyota problems exist.
Toyota has two choices.....embrace any and all input from employees, 3rd parties, customers, and fix what it wrong.
Or, the seemingly on going attacks, sidesteps, dismissals, redirections, etc on their customer base, gov't agencies, and the rules/regs that they must adhere to.
They're doing a whole lot of the latter, and practically none of the former.
Was it:
1.) Sloppy coding of the firmware??
2.) Intentional coding to avoid too many "limp home" episodes.
Either way it is worrisome.
I didn't have the time or the nerve to remind him that the Tribute was a Ford and was literally the second most recalled vehicle in history next to the Focus and only 1 recall away from matching the Chevy Citation...
Stupid stuff too like wheels falling off and gaslines rupturing...
Wasn't worth the time, so I walked.
Ummmmm....yeah.....that's exactly what I'll do. Give you money to test drive a $40K car which I may, or may not like, for the privilidge of allowing you to sell it to me.
Still, I think with all the incentives Toyota has right now, and the precipitous fall lff of their business, I'm betting if you went back to your same dealer, they're attitude would have changed.
The only thing that will get me back in their show room will be ridiculous deals. My next new vehicle will be either a Honda or a Ford.
I would hope that the NHTSA would have had someone get down there and stand guard over that vehicle, or take possession of it. If there is possible fraud then what that Prius driver was doing was breaking all sorts of traffic laws, never mind the fake-911 and fraud issues. So either way I'd hope the government had some sense to have some control over that vehicle. Nobody from Toyota should look at that vehicle without the state or fed officials being there too, and getting access to any and all data.
gagrice: You would be hard pressed to put me in that category. If you check the UAW thread you would see I am one of the most aggressive opponents of that bunch of scoundrels.
me: Roho - same here; you can go over to the UAW thread and see that I also think the UAW has mostly hurt the D3 and themselves by being too greedy. I own a Japanese car (Mazda) and a Jag. I considered a Rav4 before, so I don't hate Toyota.
I do think Toyota though is getting caught up in a problem that could have hit any one of the major automakers. They are continuing to redesign their systems, trying to do it as quick as possible and for as low a cost as possible, and pay the least for those parts. They are relying on a whole bunch of electronics and software systems to all work together quickly. And may I say it again - the engineers are working as quickly and at as low of cost to get their redesigns to market. That does not bode well for the quality of those designs.
If this happened to Ford, or to GM, or to Mercedes I would be saming the same critical things. Toyota may be making it worse than it would be for others because of the japanese culture which many have already detailed.
Even if the driver intentionally held the gas pedal fully depressed the HSD firmware would/should have over-ridden the gas pedal input in favor of the braking, both regenerative AND frictional.
The 76-year-old member of St. George Greek Orthodox Church was there to drop off items for a tag sale and tried to park her car when she experienced a problem that sounds like those that have prompted a massive recall on the cars.
I have the nagging feeling the present administratiion is conducting a witch hunt against this wonderful company in an effort to promote the sales of Ford's and GM cars.
The brake override feature is designed to be unobtrusive in normal driving conditions. It is designed to manage vehicle acceleration caused by interference with the accelerator pedal and is otherwise undetectable under normal driving conditions.
Using the accelerator pedal position sensors, brake light switch circuitry, and the vehicle speed sensors, this intuitive and intelligent extra measure of confidence helps ensure that vehicles can be controlled in the event that the accelerator pedal is trapped.
When the vehicle throttle is opened beyond the idle position, at speeds greater than five miles per hour and then the brakes are firmly applied for longer than one-half second, the override feature will reduce engine output to the idle position, allowing greater braking performance. If the brake pedal is then released and the engine speed does not return to normal operation, the vehicle should be brought to a stop with brake override, the engine shut off and the vehicle evaluated by a Toyota dealer.
The feature has sophisticated control logic intended to eliminate undesirable or inappropriate activation and is designed to be imperceptible. In certain driving conditions, unnecessary activation of brake override would create an inconvenient or even unsafe situation.
For example, the brake override feature does not operate if the brake pedal is depressed before the accelerator pedal. This logic allows for vehicles starting on a steep a hill to safely accelerate without rolling backwards, otherwise known as a hill start.
Toyota engineers have carefully calibrated the system control logic to prevent the system from interfering with efforts to free a vehicle by rocking it to gain traction in snow or mud. Since some drivers prefer to brake with the left foot, the system also recognizes this as an intentional action by the driver and will allow the accelerator to function normally.
Interesting editorial, probably applies to many situations where driver is just starting out, not on freeway, but not all, of course.
"THE Obama administration has said that it may require automakers to install “smart pedals” on all new cars. This kind of system — already used in BMWs, Chryslers, Volkswagens and some of the newest Toyotas — deactivates the car’s accelerator when the brake pedal is pressed so that the car can stop safely even if its throttle sticks open.
"The idea is to prevent the kind of sudden acceleration that has recently led to the recall of millions of Toyotas. Federal safety regulators have received complaints asserting that this problem has caused accidents resulting in 52 deaths in Toyotas since 2000. Smart pedals might help prevent more such accidents if the cause of unintended acceleration turns out to be some vehicle defect.
"But based on my experience in the 1980s helping investigate unintended acceleration in the Audi 5000, I suspect that smart pedals cannot solve the problem. The trouble, unbelievable as it may seem, is that sudden acceleration is very often caused by drivers who press the gas pedal when they intend to press the brake.
For the rest of the story, please go to:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/opinion/11schmidt.html?scp=1&sq=braking%20bad&- st=cse