Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Most popular vehicles
Popular New Cars
- New Acura MDX
- New Acura RDX
- New Audi Q5
- New BMW 3 Series
- New BMW X3
- New Buick Enclave
- New Cadillac Escalade
- New Chevrolet Equinox
- New Chrysler 300
- New Dodge Challenger
- New Ford Edge
- New Ford Escape
- New Ford Expedition
- New Ford Explorer
- New Ford F-150
- New Ford Focus
- New Ford Mustang
- New Honda Accord
- New Honda Civic
- New Honda CR-V
- New Honda Fit
- New Honda Odyssey
- New Honda Pilot
- New Hyundai Elantra
- New Hyundai Santa Fe
- New Hyundai Sonata
- New Hyundai Tucson
- New Jeep Compass
- New Jeep Grand Cherokee
- New Jeep Wrangler
- New Mazda 3
- New Mazda 6
- New Mazda CX-5
- New Nissan Altima
- New Nissan Maxima
- New Nissan Rogue
- New Porsche Cayenne
- New Ram 1500
- New Subaru Crosstrek
- New Subaru Forester
- New Subaru Impreza
- New Subaru Outback
- New Tesla Model S
- New Tesla Model X
- New Toyota 4Runner
- New Toyota Camry
- New Toyota Corolla
- New Toyota Highlander
- New Toyota Prius
- New Toyota RAV4
- New Toyota Sienna
- New Toyota Tacoma
- New Volkswagen Jetta
- New Volvo XC60
- New Volvo XC90
Popular Used Sedans
- Used BMW 5 Series
- Used Chevrolet Impala
- Used Chevrolet Malibu
- Used Chrysler 200
- Used Dodge Charger
- Used Ford Fusion
- Used Ford Taurus
- Used Honda Accord
- Used Honda Civic
- Used Hyundai Elantra
- Used Hyundai Sonata
- Used Tesla Model S
- Used Toyota Camry
- Used Toyota Corolla
- Used Volkswagen Jetta
Popular Used SUVs
- Used Acura MDX
- Used Acura RDX
- Used Ford Edge
- Used Ford Explorer
- Used Honda CR-V
- Used Honda Pilot
- Used Hyundai Santa Fe
- Used Jeep Compass
- Used Lincoln Navigator
- Used Mazda CX-5
- Used Nissan Rogue
- Used Subaru Crosstrek
- Used Subaru Forester
- Used Tesla Model X
- Used Volvo XC90
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_03lbr-Jw&feature=player_embedded
BTW, Consumers Reports doesn't say to buy Toyotas. Just the opposite. They are not recommending them now. I was just pointing out for balance that their reliability is very good.
Years ago I had a Buick Skylark Sportswagon that had UA problems. It was very easy to find, broken motor mount that was poorly designed to start with. And I won't talk about how the windows leaked and they didn't want to seal them properly, so they just quit making them.
JMHO,
Dennis
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
This site seems to be a consumer advocacy agency, so despite claims they are trying to protect consumers safety. I have attempted to verify information, and have found their information seems correct. Good luck if you try, is big project. And yes they do accept funds to do research from attorneys, government, consumer advocate groups, etc. Yes, they are biased fighting for consumers it seems/appears. My guess they have to be self supportive. This is group that paid Dr Gilbert, the professor of auto technolgy department of University of Southern Illinois $1800, $150 per hour, and $4000 of equipment to proceed wiht his study. Study was short so cost minimal. The department is considered #1 in US. University approved the study and then Dr. gilbert proceeded ahead. What is difficult to understand Dr Gilbert had called Toyota first to report on his initial findings. Also called NHTSA. And also called this Sean Kane. Kane was the only one who returned his calls. Toyota did not repond for about a week, NHTSA never called. But unfortunately Toyota was not interested with meeting him or pursuing fduring initial conversation. Kane provided the money with some outside fund assistance(who???). What Gilbert got paid was peanuts money though.. Equipment would belong to University once research completed. Auto manufacturers donate auto to this auto technology program - yes Toyota donates. Toyota also donated $100,000. Seems Dr. Gilbert and the University had more to lose. Can you imagine the possible auto manufacturers repercussions? After the congressional hearing Toyota pulled their advisors off the university board. Toyota had webcast said Gilbert's finding not true. If other auto manufacturers joined in pressuring University - problems. My best guess is University will keep Dr. Gilbert from pursuing any further research on SUA/UA. We shall see. This #1 program does get lots of help assistance from auto manufaturers.
Now you look at Exponent who Toyota has hired, and at congressional hearings Toyota would not reveal how much they pay Exponent. Saw reports estimate given may be $1,000,000+ - do use them in their law suits since main office here in California & so is Exponent. Exponent has multiple connections to Stanford Auto Research Department - and so do other manufacturers - donate to research center.
Exponent has past highly questionable ethical problems themselves though. This firm and their engineers are a defensive litigation firm. Reports always/almost always supports their clients. I was aware of Exponent long before this all started from being a medical professional that analyzed medical research w my peers and MD's.. Exponent's most audacious stunt involved Hinckley, California PGE chromium pollution. + their former Vice President Dennis Paustenbach (now Chem Risk SF) - proven published scientic fraud study- using a Chinese reserchers name & no approval. Study said chromium does not cause cancer. But chromium exposure does cause high incidence rate of cancer. Big blow up here California. Remember movie Erin Brockovich. This is the case. A second case exists several years later after fraud proven. Exponent also has done many studies tobacco does not cause cancer - hired by tobacco corporations. UCSF medical center cardiologist researcher in SF knows them very well. Exponent also wrote studies asbestos exposure does not cause lung cancer/lung mesothelioma. So now you throw in Toyota's hired gun. Exponent will support and defend any/all Toyota electronics for public. Firm is excellent and they do good job defending. Corportions will go to them when in trouble. But their reports will stilll be highly questionable, and any rebuttal to their reports quite costly. Took almost 7-8 years for California to prove the PGE fraud & was not so tightly legally controlled.. Most are. It's commonly known as corporate influenced research. Exponent highly protected/finding & studies are kept legally hidden from public since corporate attorneys usually hire. Or if goal of a corporation/s is to seek public attention, try to get studies/reports published
Then throw in all the statistical data studies out there, and available. NHTSA numbers unfortunately do not relfect total number as is only voluntary site, and dealerships have most of the complaints but not required to turn over legally per law. Still can get idea and NHTSA studies are ones usually referred to. Each study varies for comparison and each is promoting a certain point to convey to the public. CR has done a study finding Toyota has 40% of all manufacturers complaints - but used only the NHTSA thrown out/eliminated/discarded SUA/UA complaints decided by Toyota and NHTSA when addressing past Toyota SUA/UA complaints for recalls. Doesn't seem right, but was done. Edmunds did two studies which you can find right here on the main website at the bottom of page under announce,ment/press releases. #1 study was over approx 9-10yrs +-. Toyota ranked 17th among all manufatures, but did not reveal what manufacurers were doing now. To me what they are doing in recent years/presently quite/most important. Then Edmunds did study over approx last 3-4 yrs+-. This study revealed Toyota had highest per centage. Then there was PR data study report. At this point I didn't completely analyze as study provided no format explaining how study was conducted, who paid for study, precise wording was ambiguous and legally conflicting, etc. This groups study left me with many questions??? Honestly left this one alone then. And there are a few more. Too lazy to go back to my bookmarks to find.
Etc, etc, etc.
Good luck!!! Has been interesting, educational, shocking, reassuring, upsetting, etc adventure for me. And story to be continued.
I have checked this site info before - and have found accurate. Yes, biased for consumer. Have not checked this though to validate for sure.
Best guess - probably ok. Would appreciate any help here to validate.
As Edmunds states - kind of big mess.
Only 1% of NHTSA budget is for auto safety and enforcement. Plus they oversee so many other consumer products, etc. Largest percentage goes to research
once something goes wrong, maybe you can't count on the normal counteractions to work.
I predict you'll love your Camry, it will last a very long time and you will NEVER have one ua event. If you ever do have one, it sure as heck won't be because of the floor mat.
I predict the same with my Avalon.
Regards,
Dennis
Do you really need them to write it any more idiot proof?
It could add "unless faced with imminent death." Or unless you've exhausted all other options, but isn't that implied already?
http://www.edans.org/DesignForSafety.htm
Toyota said its own testing found Sikes had rapidly pressed the gas and brakes back and forth more than 250 times. The company had no explanation for why he might do such a thing but said the car's front brakes were shot.
What a [non-permissible content removed].
Exactly what I've been saying all along since the beginning of this bums story.
The testing has confirmed the obvious observational theories.
Now the ANTI Toyota faithful will be saying that there's no way an old guy could press the bakes and gas 250 times alternately without messing up and activating the brake override system or something else equally ridiculous.
System did not showed no errors or malfunctions.
Quite confused about all the information they provided Monday, but yet in past they always told people/lawyers/law enforcement they had no valuable information, none, or info on EDR limited, was varied and different, or they refused to provide. EDR available since late 1970's and available.
Am I missing something here?? Do there vehicles have any other recorded monitoring systems???
.
In any case, I think one would need to use both feet to activate BO. Apparently what he did was press the gas pedal to gain sufficient momentum, release the gas pedal, then press the brake pedal with the same foot, release the brake pedal, then press the gas again to regain the lost momentum. And to think all the experts, including Toyota, couldn't figure out why the BO didn't operate.
Does anybody in here have any concrete information and updates on the 2010 Camry as to what the real cause of the gas pedal sticking is? Is it a computer problem? Or did Toyota service already fix the problem by putting a shim on the gas pedal like they did on my car? I would like to know.
Here it comes, the secret firmware/electronics fix; after Toyota repeatedly and firmed deny anything wrong with the electronics.
Liar liar..
Toyota owners have reported additional cases of SUA/UA after having both the floor mat and the pedal recall done. As to whether the Toyota dealer knows anything more, I seriously doubt that Toyota explained anything to the dealer since they deny SUA.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Not sure of the exact sequence, but that would be my guess.
Others that have been reported (like with the Prius) there were successive steps, seemingly in random order, which got the cars to stop.
Some weren't as fortunate. There was at least one report that a wall stopped their Toyota, one had their car careen out of control into a ravine. Some even died trying to get their Lexus to stop.
Do a vehicle search by year, Manufacturer and Model and component - Most complaints related to UA seem to fall under the component VEHICLE SPEED CONTROL - after you retrieve the complaints you can click on SUMMARY and read the actual complaint. Some are well written and logical, others are rambling and inconclusive and not all will be related to an actual acceleration event. You can get a good idea that there is something real happening as well as a lot of complaints that aren't relevant to much of anything. There are 15000 complaints in their database so it is a little tedious to separate the wheat from the chaff. Another annoyance is that the COMPONENT drop down menu is not consistent from CAR to CAR or even year to year. Good source of anecdotal information but as a Data resource it is seriously flawed on a number of levels.
Don't be silly, Toyota would not be in this mess if they had brake override installed and working when they went drive-by-wire. They should have learned from Audi's debacle.
On another note....I get the brake override upgrade on Saturday (2009 Camry) and would like to know the simplest OQ test to confirm workability. For example, will revving the car with one foot while stationary then pressing the brakes with the other foot trigger the brake override?
I'll ask again at the dealership but would prefer advance knowledge, as always, before entering the "belly of the beast".
Faulty electronics in a Prius would leave you no real options.Please talk me off the ledge,because I have a 2007 Prius which I totally mistrust. :lemon:
Those 'emergency' maneuvers shown in youtube.. They all work -- because the testers are aware that a UA will happen. They neglected the reality of the human brain. That there is a 'computing' lag in the brain when the 'least expected' UA occurs. The brain is already 100% capacity cruising along the car pool lane in high speed for example, judging the speed of surrounding traffic.. etc. Then 'boom' a UA occurs... There is not enough time. The reflex is to hit the brake to slowdown the car. They should focus on and make use of the 'braking' reflex. Instead of some fancy maneuvers.. put to neutral this, press stop button 5 seconds that.. Who can remember those in times of panic?
Any driver who is licensed and qualified to drive upon US roads should remember in times of panic and/or otherwise.
Next, were all going to make excuses for people that fail to have that "brake" reflex. People will say, the UA startled me so much, I forgot to try the brake because the accelerator was non responsive and the car "just took off on me."
I think the requirement for a brake "override" feature is equivalent to the dumbing down of America and it is no easier to hit the brakes than it is to shift to neutral.
Also, most American driver's I see on the road are driving on about 5% of their brains capacity, not 100%. They should be using about 50%, 100% is not necessary. I think that the act of talking on a cell phone uses about 60% of your brain capacity, so that is why driving and talking on a cell phone is ill advised. I believe the diffirence between the use of a single hand on a phone vs. a head set or some other hands free device is negligible.
The answer lies in the investigators' research into that Prius.
The driver intermittently and alternately hit the accelerator and brake over 250 times. So he kept lightly hitting the brakes, then hitting the gas to recover any lost speed, then repeated, over and over. (This is a fact retrieved from the prius' on-board computer). The Wall Street Journal found investigators that said the brakes were found to indicate wear consistent with being depressed LIGHTLY for an extended amount of time or times.
Also, he may have done about twenty 60-0 brake runs down an alley to overheat and wear out his brakes before he even got on the freeway (but this is speculation on my part).
As an engineer, I do not design systems that rely on the On/Off switch - which is wired into an electronic controller, or a sensor, or an electronic relay, or the software code for that system to work and be error-free. If I want to stop a machine I design it such that the energy can be disconnected without going through any electronics. The kill-switch mechanically disconnects the energy source.
A vehicle has 2 energy sources - 1) gasoline or diesel fuel, 2) the battery to ignite that fuel. Drivers are not given a way to disconnect either when driving which is a serious (eElectrical and Software) engineering-philosophy-flaw.
That flaw is probably a result of:
a) engineering arrogance; but humans make mistakes
b) Marketing concerns - no manufacturer wants to alarm potential customers by having a mechanical kill switch, if the others don't
c) Cost - it might cost $50/vehicle to add a mechanical kill method; manufacturers try and squeeze the last $0.05 out of most cars. They can't even put a set of car-mats in to match what Walmart sells for $10!
I think the same can be said for Stability control, traction control and ABS brakes. All added to Toyotas problematic DBW systems. Power steering and brakes are nice. Not really needed.
I agree, anything that is distracting such as cell phones or munching donuts are bad news. Especially driving vehicles that are prone to erratic anomalies.
Well...allegedly you car has brake over ride installed already. I would certainly take it into your Toyota dealer to confirm that fact (along with a written statement of confirmation).
But, if the electronics are haywire, as some have reported, I'd practice in an empty parking lot on what you'd do if you experience UA. Accelerate and practice throwing the gearshift into "neutral" while standing on the brakes is where I'd begin. While you're at it, review and practice holding down the "start/stop" button while accelerating, too....so you know the procedures that are supposed to work in that instance, also.
Practice doing all of those things at the same time.
35MPH is the approximate speed the cruise control would be disabled normally by its own internal action.
The problem with SUA is that the cruise control gets "stuck" in the "set/accel" mode, continuously executing the "set/accel" firmware sub-routine with no normal "break-out" operational.
Even once Toyota/NipponDenso find the firmware flaw they are not likely to disclose the fact. My guess would be that it has already been found. There are not certainly enough clues, input, to put them hard on the "trail".
Eventually you will get a "reflash" for some "non-threatening" firmware flaw that actually includes the SUA fix.
I doubt he would have to do that lol. His car had 50 thousand or more miles on it, so when was the last time that the brake pads were replaced. If they were original pads, then there might not have been a lot left when this happened. The media and everyone goes on how the brakes were worn down during this UA and all the braking but they were probably worn down to begin with. If the pads have been replaced then Mr. Sykes should produce a work order and make his story a little more believable.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2006 Lexus 350 ES
Odometer - 2728
Date incident - October 12, 2006
http://energycommerce.house.gov/Press_111/20100223/Eddie.Rhonda.Smith.Testimony.- pdf
http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=190- 3:response-by-toyota-and-nhtsa-to-incidents-of-sudden-unintended-acceleration&ca- tid=133:subcommittee-on-oversight-and-investigations&Itemid=73
EDR - Some Info
http://www.nhtsa.gov/portal/site/nhtsa/menuitem.338d64bcebefdfd24ec86e10dba046a0- /
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/what%e2%80%99s-wrong-with-toyota%e2%80%99s-blac- k-boxes/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100304/ap_on_hi_te/us_toyota_black_boxes