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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    I guess everybody is different,but at age 73 I don't consider myself any worse a driver than when I was younger.To even suggest that everyone over 70 is senile(and they are,you know)is just insulting,
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I agree. I have seen a lot worse 18-25 year old drivers than 70-75 year olds. And accident statistics agree with me.
  • gizzer777gizzer777 Member Posts: 335
    edited May 2010
    I am a recent refugee from the Edmunds Toyota Forum where I had purchased a new 2009 Toyota XLE Corolla (top of that line) I will shorten this up but after having their "shim fix" done to the gas pedal, I was still unhappy so I opted for an entire new assembly. A picture appeared yesterday where they reshaped the pedal as part 2 of that recall....what a butchery it is.

    Even though I do not count Toyota out......

    as luck would have it, a few days ago, I decided to bite the bullet and trade it in....For an extremely low mileage, extremely clean Subaru Outback (I would say it was about dead center in the 2.5L premium ;lineup...Just enough to keep me happy! (We had a terrible winter and I decided to get a used "mid" sized AWD auto for this year (my 1st used vehicle ever, and I am.....lets just say over 62!

    I am not buying into the Toyota story about the fault lying with the older segment of society (driving their Toyotas, to the market segment they were esigned for!!!! !!!!

    (well maybe like everything else, maybe a few of us oldies!)...IMHO there is definitely something "a brewing under that hood"....and it ain't a gas pedal, floormats, or their implementation of EPS (Electric power steering)...ITS CALLED A RUSH TO MARKET!"

    I never kept a car more than 2 yrs antyway but nwas not really happy about being "forced" out, and not when I felt like it! TO KEEP IT SHORT....NEVER KEEP THOSE GUYS AT TOYOTA DOWN!!!! THEY WILL BE BACK IMHO!

    As for my 2008 Outlander, in the couple of days I have owned it, I am pleased. I have never owned a smaller mid sized AWD before. Always been a larger AWD because of our climate.....I think I am going to like this though.....DESPITE YHE XTRA $$ i HAD TO GIVE UP ON THE TOYOTA TRADE! It is not easy getting out of anything that says Toyota on it! (LOL)

    For those trapped under water ij theirs, my sympathies and I hope they get something from the class action that is sure to follow (something other than a coupon for a discount on another Toyota...In all these years, It was my 1st Yota...definitely my last! Mostly due to the way they handled themselves
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Member Posts: 177
    I drove an '86 GL 4wd wagon for 14 years and an '02 fancy Forester for 5. I just sold my '06 Avalon to a coworker and bought a '10 HL Limited. Had more trouble, small things, with the 2 Subarus than anything else since a '67 Chevy. I had a new '87 Camry LE that was pretty good once the water pump was replaced. The '92 Camry LE ate motor mounts, blew a fuse panel and had a door handle break.

    The old Chevys were the only ones that ever had the throttle stick open. The '70 was worse than the '67.

    The front sub-frame members on the '86 Subaru finally rusted through, but the engine was still running. :) Got $250 for the car. 14 years/cost $11k new, not bad.

    John
  • gizzer777gizzer777 Member Posts: 335
    edited May 2010
    Something is very wrong at Toyota (to say the least). This will probably be my last post in the Corolla Forum, but I thought I would share this:

    1) The used Subaru move seems to have been a good one for me (SO FAR and still have a bit left on the warranty to boot)

    BUT while vacuuming it today, I noticed something very (apparently simple....and Toyota OWNS a good part of Subaru. I wonder wthe final tab will be on all the recalls (BILLIONS)

    Under my gas pedal is an oem half domed object (about like a golf ball cut in half size). Why reshape pedals, floors, carpets and the rest. This little dealy bob seems to at least stop the pedal getting stuck in the carpet...Must have cost Subaru at least $.15 cents apiece!!!!
    I believe they build the Subarus in the same plant that Toyota builds some Camarys in too!

    The thickness of both the mats and carpet is at least double + that of the Corolla and those da^&% Corolla mats were $200!

    I still wish you all good luck! :shades:
  • novacouplenovacouple Member Posts: 31
    Just got a new 2010 RAV4. It was assembled in Canada earlier this month (May, 2010) with 90% Japanese parts. I could not help but notice the new floor mats fall well short of reaching the pedals and do not seem to move at all when hooked to the anchors. They also come with warning labels stapled the drivers side mat (to be removed by the purchaser only) that warn against using any other mat and to not let them get near the pedals, in five languages. It almost made me laugh!
  • delthekingdeltheking Member Posts: 1,152
    Got to be very clear to some stupid folks out there who dont think and use inappropriate floor mats ! :sick:
    Nothing wrong with Toyotas as you will realize !! :P
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    no, the real problem is that Toyota engineers couldn''t design a vehicle that could accomodate 2 mats placed one over the other.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I don't know who would put a floor mat on top of another one in the first place. Anybody remember those old school mats that stretch from the driver's side across the transmission hump to the passenger's side?
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    If Toyota provided clearance for (2) mats, there are some folks that would put two mats plus apple cores and drink cans on the floor. Where do you draw the line against stupid.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2010
    I haven't thought about those mats in years Lemko. Probably real collectors items now, but most have likely crumbled to dust.
  • mickeyrommickeyrom Member Posts: 936
    I had a rubber mat on top of the Original one, and still could not it stick.In deference to Toyota I cut part of the rubber one off so it does not even come close to the gas pedal.When I took my Prius to the dealer for the gas pedal replacement....all they did was cut a groove in it...I swear to you.that is true.Not sure what that is supposed to do. :confuse:
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    It's so you can be groovin..... :)

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Not sure what that is supposed to do.

    Now you're even with the Toyota tech as I'm sure he doesn't know either.
  • djohnson1djohnson1 Member Posts: 54
    Subaru makes a great car. A friend of mine has one with about 100k miles on it.
    Never had much trouble at all, until gradually it would run rough and lack power and check engine light came on. Had to replace O2 sensor. A couple weeks later, same thing. I guess they had some bad ones, and they came from the dealer. She was still having problems last time I talked to her. I'll have to update that, since it's been a few months.
    Bottom line, cars are a love - hate deal. We love them when they are great and hate them when we can't get where we want to go and it's costing $$$$. And all cars have problems sooner or later ... too many wear items and parts. One problem is there are not as many out there, so not all of the info is readily available on how to troubleshoot problems. Good luck!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Gov't: 89 deaths tied to Toyota acceleration (AP)

    "None of the complaints have been verified."
  • gizzer777gizzer777 Member Posts: 335
    Thanks for the words of encouragement djohnson1.....Yes, I am still hanging around here, a few friends with 09 Corollas are also getting pretty upset with the goings on. (steering issues and those recalls +++ more)

    yes, The Subaru Outback is a quirky car and I know about most of them. Luckily I still have about 6 mos left on the factory warranty and it only has about 22k on the speedo (verified).

    It is funny...It is still chilly here, and when it starts up, sounds like a diesel til it warms up (knew about that with the 4 banger)

    Thanks again
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    all my cars have enough room under the gas pedal for a soda can.
    i guess some manufacturers figured it out earlier than others.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Can some one tell me why that back in the days of throttle "cables" there was never a gas pedal stuck issue...??
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I thought there were?
  • nimiminimimi Member Posts: 249
    You are correct. Cable-controlled pedals were always getting stuck due to one problem or another with the cable or its attachments at either end.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    The big difference is that if a cable controlled gas pedal stuck, a toe lift under the pedal would usually correct the problem. If that didn't work, turning off the ignition would work for certain. We had control of the vehicle, there was no computer to over-ride our actions.
  • nimiminimimi Member Posts: 249
    Welcome to the 21st century! Imagine how Orville and Wilbur would feel if they could sit in the cockpit of a 777!
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Member Posts: 19,256
    not exactly true, if the binding was under the hood.
    2023 Ford Explorer ST, 91 Mustang GT vert
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
  • djohnson1djohnson1 Member Posts: 54
    Sorry, wwest, but I've had two cars with throttle cables that stuck.
    One was an old Chevy 6 cylinder. I was in college and it was really in bad shape. Never fixed it. But it didn't have too much power and you could 1, turn off the key, although it didn't quit running very fast (it sort of dieseled a bit), and 2, you could pull the accelerator pedal back up. Probably some worn bushings or something.

    My second cable throttle car to stick was a Buick Skylark Sportswagon. Can't remember the year, but GM had poorly designed motor mounts that when they failed -- and most of them did sooner or later -- it allowed the motor to torque or twist, lifting up in the engine compartment, thus causing the carb linkage to pull wide open. It was fixed with a cable lock to hold it.
    Regards,
    Denny
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    What year Sportwagon? I had a 1968 Buick Special Deluxe wagon which was the Sportwagon's smaller, plainer sister. Mine had a 350 V-8 with a 2 bbl carb.
  • tinkerbell07tinkerbell07 Member Posts: 28
    On the RAV-4 2010 models with a "J vin number: Were the J Vin #'s excluded from the RAV-4 recall, or or were ALL 2010 RAV-4's recalled for the sticky gas pedal? I was told the Densel (sorry for misspelling) pedal was not at issue and vehicles equipped with it were not recalled; also that the "J" vin #'s had the Densel/Chinese manufactured pedals...not that I believe the car dealership that provided this assurance on the car I am considering. I would rather ask the folks on this forum and look forward to finding out what I should rely on, and what is "dealer fluff". Thanks.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    None of the Toyota/Lexus "announced"/publicized causes for SUA were the true causes.

    Toyota even said so in the case of the "sticking", non-Denso, gas pedal.
  • tinkerbell07tinkerbell07 Member Posts: 28
    Then, ALL of the RAV-4's were at risk -- regardless of what gas pedal was originally installed in the vehicle?
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Yes, until Toyota announces otherwise then buyers should consider that ANY Toyota, Lexus, or Scion might be subject to the engine/transaxle ECU firmware flaw that results, VERY rarely results, in these SUA incidents.

    But my guess is that the public will NEVER see such an announcement, Toyota will find and fix the firmware flaw, all future vehicles will incorporate the fix, and the public will NEVER be the wiser.

    For Toyota, even 4 or 5 deaths, the Saylor family, does not justify the need to announce the existence of a firmware flaw this insidious along with a fleetwide recall of this class.

    For owners it would be like playing Russian Roulette....
  • beachfish2beachfish2 Member Posts: 177
    Odd how these supposed acceleration problems disappeared after the initial flurry of complaints. It's been a few months now, hasn't it.

    John
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited June 2010
    Not odd at all, just the way things sometimes work out in the world of real time, process control, firmware/software programming. Sometimes these flaws are so rare the end user sees the "event" so rarely, once a year, or even once in ten years (it HAS happened), that it is deemed unimportant, not worthy of reporting.

    And just look at how Sikes was "treated" by Toyota's PR team.....
  • tinkerbell07tinkerbell07 Member Posts: 28
    Well, wish me luck, folks, as I went ahead and purchased the RAV-4 - Russian Roulette notwithstanding. This is the way of the business world, isn't it? Proceed as if nothing was wrong, until it is impossible to ignore or deny the existence of an issue. Toyota claims their Star Safety System will override any runaway acceleration that might occur. Here's hoping I don't find out how good the System is (or isn't...).
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    Were you nearby I could readily show you that your RAV4, no Toyota, has ANY safety previsions to protect you in the case of certain SUA events. I was in Tampa just last week but don't plan to be in FL again until the next 24 hours of daytona, if even then.
  • tinkerbell07tinkerbell07 Member Posts: 28
    From what I'm reading on this and other forums, the general belief is that Toyota vehicles are a potential death trap and the problems experienced to date are just tip of the iceberg. Well, I own the vehicle now, so I surely hope that is not the case. Is it the gas pedal, or is it the electronics/computer? Wish I had the knowledge to form a valid opinion. Guess I should have avoided the brand altogether and then I wouldn't be concerned...
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited June 2010
    Considering the evidence I have very little doubt, do not doubt, that the problem lies within the engine/transaxle ECU control firmware, specifically the cruise control section. My company has many years, since '69, of experience composing real time process control software and trouble-shooting same, for ourselves and many, a myriad, of other vendors.

    "..potential death trap..."

    Having one of these SUA events occur is probably equal to playing russian roulette with a million chambers in the gun but only one with a bullet. Lethal SUA would probably be one in ten million.

    "..should have avoided the brand altogether.."

    There are maybe two or three, five at the most, companies in the world today capable of supplying certifiably reliable and "robust" firmware for these new engine/transaxle control systems. The two main ones IMMHO are NipponDenso (Denso US), and Bosch. So vehicular "brand" probably doesn't matter as much as which software composition source is used by the brand you choose.

    At this point in time I would choose Bosch since they do not have the "heads-down"(***) cultural history of the Japanese.

    *** Don't point out flaws that are possibly the responsibility, FAULT, of someone "above". Keep your head down or it might get chopped off.
  • tinkerbell07tinkerbell07 Member Posts: 28
    Thanks again for your input and your knowledge. I'm a little bit hypersensitive to electronic/computer issues, as I just gave up a 2001 Santa Fe with many oddball electronic issues (radio turned itself on and off on a regular basis, doors that locked and unlocked themselves, a defective oxygen sensor (input?) that remains defective after being replaced, etc.) So I am familiar with automotive electronic malfunctions but not the reasons for them - just the end result. I hope in time I will stop thinking about the possibility of becoming an unfortunate statistic!
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    I'm assuming you're single? If my significant other decided for me that 1 in ten million was acceptable odds, well let's just say I wouldn't be driving that vehicle.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    I think it is fair to say that with the electronics and computer controlled "drive by wire" features that are on ALL current vehicles, it might be impossible to pick a vehicle that does not have the "1 in 10 million" odds of a potential failure!

    We should be more concerned about snake bites and lightening strikes.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,147
    Perhaps someone who fears 1 in 10 million odds should avoid riding or driving in any motor vehicle, as the odds of dying in a motor vehicle accident are 14.6 in 100,000.
    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/acc-inj.htm

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
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  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Perhaps someone who fears 1 in 10 million odds should avoid riding or driving in any motor vehicle, as the odds of dying in a motor vehicle accident are 14.6 in 100,000.

    From...http://www.livescience.com/environment/050106_odds_of_dying.html

    The more specific figures are based on 2001, the most recent year for which complete data are available. Other odds, indicated with an asterisk (*) are based on long-term data.

    All figures below are for U.S. residents.

    Cause of Death Lifetime Odds
    Heart Disease
    1-in-5

    Cancer
    1-in-7

    Stroke
    1-in-23

    Accidental Injury
    1-in-36

    Motor Vehicle Accident*
    1-in-100

    Intentional Self-harm (suicide)
    1-in-121

    Falling Down
    1-in-246

    Assault by Firearm
    1-in-325

    Fire or Smoke
    1-in-1,116

    Natural Forces (heat, cold, storms, quakes, etc.)
    1-in-3,357

    Electrocution*
    1-in-5,000

    Drowning
    1-in-8,942

    Air Travel Accident*
    1-in-20,000

    Flood* (included also in Natural Forces above)
    1-in-30,000

    Legal Execution
    1-in-58,618

    Tornado* (included also in Natural Forces above)
    1-in-60,000

    Lightning Strike (included also in Natural Forces above)
    1-in-83,930

    Snake, Bee or other Venomous Bite or Sting*
    1-in-100,000

    Earthquake (included also in Natural Forces above)
    1-in-131,890

    Dog Attack
    1-in-147,717

    Asteroid Impact*
    1-in-200,000**

    Tsunami* 1-in-500,000
    Fireworks Discharge
    1-in-615,488


    ** Perhaps 1-in-500,000

    SOURCES: National Center for Health Statistics, CDC; American Cancer Society; National Safety Council; International Federation of Red Cross and Red Crescent Societies; World Health Organization; USGS; Clark Chapman, SwRI; David Morrison, NASA; Michael Paine, Planetary Society Australian Volunteers
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited June 2010
    Those statistics look even worse if you consider that many of that 100,000 from the general population rarely travel automotively, if ever at all. On the other hand we're talking about over ~70 year lifespan.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited June 2010
    Wunnerful - I'm driving a 10 year old minivan to Taos tomorrow. Maybe I should just stay in bed. :blush:

    (no, it's not a Sienna, lol)
  • tinkerbell07tinkerbell07 Member Posts: 28
    My significant other thinks I'm overreacting. Maybe I'll let him drive the car and I'll take his (but he has a Toyota, as well, albeit 2005). Truth is, I'm from NY where I never drove a car until after I moved to Florida. All of this rhetoric about electronic failures and inability to stop no matter how quickly or smartly one reacts has made the hair stand up on the back of my neck!
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited June 2010
    Just keep in mind that the e-brake, parking brake, is HARD coupled to the separate, independent, brake shoes and DRUM braking surface, on the rear, REAR, brakes, and practice, judiciously, using it once in awhile.

    While not nearly as effective as normal braking on your RAV4 it is REAR implemented, no engine torque delivered there, and NOT subject to override by the ABS.

    If you or your "other" is handy with "tools" then you might consider installing a relay activated by the e-brake applied light/annunciator power to open the circuit to the fuel pump when the e-brake is applied.

    Yet another advantage to RWD, little (R/awd) or no engine torque to overcome/override the vehicle's primary braking resource, the FRONT brakes
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..over-reacting.."

    No.

    "Be-that-as-it-may" insofar as Toyota's being subject to SUA, I would be in line for purchasing a new 2012 Sienna were Toyota to adapt the new I4 to DFI (210-225HP..??) and provide a F/awd version along with.

    Otherwise it will be the new 2012 Ford Escape (Lincoln Mariner) hybrid or the new 2012 Ford Explorer Sport-Trac for me.

    Drove a 2010 Toyota Sienna last week while in Tampa and was really impressed with the quietness of the cabin and overall riding comfort. Was also impressed with the ability to open the rear quarter panel "winglets" from the driver's seat in order to more quickly purge the cabin of the HOT atmosphere resulting from setting out in the FL sun for hours. Or even to alleviate the helicopter BOOMING noise/pressure waves if someone lowered the "mid-ships" window(s).

    But I was NOT impressed with the SHEAR design idiocy of the (manual) HVAC system. With a max cooling setting the recirculate mode would come on automatically and could NOT be over-ridden. I finally discovered that if I turned the temperature control knob just one click back from maximum cooling then I could override the system into fresh incoming airflow mode in order to more quickly purge the cabin of the HOT atmosphere and thereby much more quickly cool the cabin and cabin surfaces via returning to recirculate mode, MAXIMUM cooling setting.

    NipponDenso, Denso HVAC design engineers, IDIOTS all...!!!
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    edited June 2010
    Was also impressed with the ability to open the rear quarter panel "winglets" from the driver's seat in order to more quickly purge the cabin of the HOT atmosphere resulting from setting out in the FL sun for hours.

    Think you'll find that feature in all the minivans.

    I noticed older relatives don't call me to take them to doctors appointments nor pick them up from the hospital. I've been told that it's because the three vehicles I own do not support the elderly. I own a full size truck and SUV which I've been told rides too high and is difficult to get in and out of even using the running boards. My other vehicle I'm told rides too low making it again difficult to get in an out of though I never thought of the vette as being too low.

    Perhaps this is a good thing?
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    edited June 2010
    One in ten million is a guess. We don't know how many of these events have occurred with no fatality though a close call which could've easily resulted in one depending on who did the driving.

    The other side of the coin is that you survive the incident but kill three others with a collision and spend the next ten years in prison.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..in all minivans.."

    No, not even close to all. And some have manual winglet openers only accessible at the rear.
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