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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • popsavalonpopsavalon Member Posts: 231
    I did not want to come right out and use the "I" word, but someone who gets rid of their Corolla because it moves ("lurches") while in gear, without their foot being on the brake, might qualify!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Well she is 78 years old and traded a RAV4 in on the Corolla. The RAV4 never gave her any trouble and she loved it. She does not seem to be having any trouble with the Sante Fe, so my guess is the problem was the Corolla.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    Like about 100% of the other SA problems, the problem here appears to be an older driver who can't tell the gas pedal from the brake. Just plain silly.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...the only Toyota-branded vehicle in which I'd be remotely interested is on the list - the Avalon.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Anyone who thinks that is a design flaw is just smoking spice or something.....

    Driver training and common sense tells everyone that when stopped, in gear, you need to have your foot on the brake, firmly.

    Anyone who drives any other way is just NOT doing it right.

    And also - two-footed driving is a NO-NO for automatic transmissions !!! One right foot does it all !!!
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited May 2011
    way back in driver's ed being told to keep my right foot on the brake while stopped at a red light. Of course, I cheated and used my left foot to hold the brake pedal down at times but always went back to holding it down with my right foot. It's just the old-skool correctoid way, man! :D

    Anyone else remember this or do a lot of you hold down the brake pedal with your left foot while being stopped at red lights?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "when stopped, in gear, you need to have your foot on the brake, firmly.."

    Rapidly becoming an urban legend, that.

    Almost all modern day vehicles rolling off the production line have "hill start", often referred to as "hill hold".

    With the advent of more ROBUST torque converter lockup clutches the torque converter, LITTLE used torque converter, was down-sized, made less powerful.

    So, now, on level terrain the TC will often not have enough coupling at idle to move the vehicle. Conversely it also does not have enough coupling to hold the vehicle stationary when stopped on a uphill facing incline.

    Move your foot from the brake pedal on the way to placing it on the gas pedal, the car rolls, begins to roll, and "Hill Start" detects the roll and automatically applies the brakes.

    Now when you finally get your foot to the gas pedal and apply pressure the brakes have been applied so there will be a slight delay in the DBW system's response to the gas pedal pressure.

    Some vehicle's flash the TC light and activate a short beep to make the driver aware of what just happened.
  • jennicavjennicav Member Posts: 1
    HaHa I find this hilarious. I was one of the passengers in the cobalt. I sustained serious injuries from the lady driving the toyota sienna. The immigrant decided to cross the freeway and stop right in the lane that we were driving in. There was no steering issues with the cobalt and there wasnt even anytime to swerve out of the way. Her van got T boned and it was 100% her fault. Cobalt was a great car. No problems
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited May 2011
    Wow, I'm amazed you found us! (surprised that one of the links still works).

    Hope you are mending ok.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Regardless of any technology advances.....

    Your right foot is sitting there doing NOTHING anyway when you are stopped at a light - so why not burn a few calories by holding the brake down, instead of relying on some "mystery technology" to keep you from rolling forward?

    That's how it's still taught in driver's ed, and how it SHOULD be taught.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    edited May 2011
    "..how it's taught..."

    Yes, but you must move your right foot from the brake to the gas pedal and that "time" is what is giving rise to the new technology.

    Oh, and speaking of "new" technology, there was a time in not to distance past when 2-foot driving, clutch/braking/gas, was REQUIRED.

    Speaking of which how many of us, how often, shift a manual into neutral in order to give our clutch leg a rest.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    edited May 2011
    Correct - but in the 3-foot days, the driver's right foot was used as it is now - for the gas and the brake. Not for the clutch and the brake.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    larsb. Even if my car had that new-fangled technology I would still hold down the brake with my right foot until ready to move forward.

    Or backwards. Whichever I wanted to go. So there.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "...in the 3-foot days..."

    Again, just where did you say you were from.... :)
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited May 2011
    does he have any Sasquatch's for friends, too? Chilliwack, B.C. is a Sasquatch hotspot just fyi.

    " in the 3 ft days..."

    Interesting comment larsb!

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    That's the spirit !!! :) :shades:
  • circuitsmithcircuitsmith Member Posts: 117
    "Rapidly becoming an urban legend, that."

    Not a good way to put it. That implies it was never true.

    "LITTLE used torque converter, was down-sized, made less powerful"

    Got any reference to back that up?
    On most mainstream automatics the torque converter is unlocked below ~40MPH.
    With car companies striving for fractions of an MPG a low loss/slip torque converter is still desirable.

    You should keep your foot on the brake when stopped on the street anyway so the brake lights will be on.
  • wwestwwest Member Posts: 10,706
    "..unlocked below ~40 MPH..."

    Nowadays the torque converter clutch is locked, bypassing the TC, unless being locked might result in the engine stalling. It will also be unlocked for even the most minor level of acceleration, in any of the higher gear ratios.

    "..Got any reference to back that up.."

    Other than the widespread adoption of the new "hill-start", automatic braking, no.
  • luckysevenluckyseven Member Posts: 134
    wwest, you need to stop imagining things and pass it for facts.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Only California car owners — not those in other states — can take advantage of the state's favorable consumer-protection laws. The action drastically cuts the size of a potential class action against Toyota filed on behalf of consumers and calls into question speculation that the Toyota litigation could cost the automaker upward of $3 billion if it lost the federal case."

    Federal Judge Drastically Limits Claims Against Toyota in Sudden-Acceleration Litigation (Inside Line)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "The first legal case against Toyota Motor Corp. over unintended acceleration was dismissed from a federal court in California under a judge’s ruling that the lawsuit should have been filed in a state court in Utah, where the plaintiffs’ accident occurred.

    The dismissal won’t preclude the suit from being tried in a federal court, as the plaintiffs’ attorney said a new complaint will be drafted to place the suit in the proper jurisdiction. The now-dismissed case was scheduled to be tried in 2013."

    First Toyota Unintended-Acceleration Lawsuit Dismissed (AutoObserver)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Seems strange they would have filed it in CA to start with. With recent cut backs in the state budget the courts are getting very backed up. The last I read in San Francisco, it could take 3-5 years for a civil case, including divorces.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    My guess is they were trying to take advantage of the more favorable consumer protection laws in California.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Well, it was filed in federal court in California, and I don't know how much weight the court would give to state consumer law. Probably a more favorable jury pool than one in Utah but you never know with juries.

    Toyota is based in California so it makes a little sense to start there where most of the documents and witnesses are.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    State consumer laws are all over the board and vary considerably. Things like limits on judgments, length of time to file, etc, etc. I would think it would be impossible for a Fed. Court to ignore a particular state's consumer laws.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2011
    We can make it even more complicated since the accident happened in Utah. Maybe the court would ignore California and use the Utah laws. Or, say, Kentucky if the SUA car was a Camry that was made there. :shades:
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Toyota is based in California so it makes a little sense to start there where most of the documents and witnesses are.

    IIRC in the senate hearings the toyota folks acted like everything was in Japan.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,327
    edited October 2011
    In effect, that is exactly what they are saying, because they are saying the suit has to be filed in the state where the accident happened. Utah in this case, so subject to Utah laws.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2011
    I suppose another judge could just as easily have said they'd apply Utah laws but will litigate in California for convenience since that's where most of the parties are.

    In any event, the 2013 trial date just got pushed back another year.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Moving forward. Slowly.

    "Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A.'s inspection of a crashed 2008 Toyota Camry casts "a cloud of suspicion" over its behavior, wrote Judge James V. Selna on Wednesday as he issued a tentative sanction against the automaker in the nationwide trial over sudden unintended acceleration."

    Toyota Faces Judicial Sanction in Sudden Acceleration Case (Inside Line)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    I am sure James Selna is a subject matter expert when it comes to cars, too. A comment there sums it up:

    "I'd like to know how Toyota was supposed to know they were in a pre-litigation phase when inspecting a car a mere two weeks after the accident? Had the plaintiffs already filed suit?"

    It's awfully coincidental. Just as it is so coincidental that this issue is so widespread in the nation that is both the most litigious and most clueless behind the wheel.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    I'd be interested to known who gave Toyota "unfettered" access to the Camry. The plaintiffs say they didn't, and they own the car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Maybe they "forgot" after a lawyer got ahold of them...
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    You don't think some palm was greased at a storage lot somewhere? :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Oh, something has been greased somewhere, without a doubt. Follow the money.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Over a 10-year period, NHTSA received nearly 3,100 complaints, alleging at least 93 deaths from Toyota sudden acceleration incidents, but has confirmed a link in just five deaths. In that same period, the rest of the industry accounted for about 6,400 complaints combined.

    In January 2010, Toyota was forced to temporarily stop selling more than 60 percent of vehicles in the United States, as it searched for a fix for its sticky pedal problem. Its top executive, Akio Toyoda, was called to testify before Congress, and the issue got worldwide attention.

    Toyota still faces hundreds of lawsuits in connection with its recalls.

    But the issue has largely faded away. The Senate this year had approved legislation to require Congress to set pedal entrapment rules as part of a highway bill, but as part of a compromise unveiled Thursday, the provision to require NHTSA to set new pedal placement rules was dropped — as were most new safety requirements sought by the Senate."

    Toyota expanding Lexus pedal recall (Detroit News)
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    ...does this SUA issue affect the Avalon?
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    edited July 2012
    the problems with toyotas and unintended acceleration (runaway acceleration), according to some pundits, was all DRIVER ERROR!

    No chance of drive-by-wire or electronics. Then they decided floor mats. Then they decided it was the fault of US supplier of electronics for the accelerator pedal.

    Now it's back to accelerator after testing two samples for whiskers in electronic parts. This is as hard to pin down as the Beverly Hills Supper Club fire cause! Link to fire info

    They are still debating over what's the cause and who did the cover up. Guess they should blame John Davidson who was the singer attraction appearing at the time. Or the aluminum wiring. Of the arson idea. Or sabotage by two workers there during the day. Etc.

    Maybe NASA can investigate the Beverly Hills fire.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • finfin Member Posts: 594
    If the problem is really intermittent electrical... you may never find it. This is one of the most difficult things to find in all of auto engineering. Unless you have a system monitor after every event.. and there are hundreds of events occuring in an auto electrical system at the same time.. it may remain hidden for the life of the vehicle, especially because all similar vehicles do not have it. This is one of the great question marks in the Avy/Lexus line. My '07 Limited has never done it, it's been perfect except for the oil line failure repair under warranty. Go figure.... :)
  • luckysevenluckyseven Member Posts: 134
    Toyota unintended acceleration issue was never proved to exist. Something like UFOs or aliens. Even NASA tried to find any faults in Toyotas but came up empty handed.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    NASA had two unintended shuttle crashes. Both design failures, So nothing is perfect.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Even NASA tried to find any faults in Toyotas but came up empty handed.

    NASA checked for radio interference, electromagnetic interference from typically surface power lines that might have interfered with the electronics. If the tenet that there's a problem in the electronics is so silly, why would anyone have bothered to have NASA check? That alone gives validity.

    Have you proven that there are no electronic flaws?

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    And we're back to tin whiskers. (aviationtoday.com)
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    Interesting article. Tin whiskers are unavoidable without the Pb that should be in the solder alloy.

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nothing like unintended consequences shutting down a few satellites eh?

    I wouldn't want to be near the assembly line where they are soldering the stuff though.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I had no idea they had abandoned lead in PB construction. To many eco nuts allowed to be involved in policy. Maybe those people killed in SUA should be suing the Feds or whichever agency is making poor regulations.

    I see old TVs in the dumpsters at my storage all the time. Off to the landfill.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    Well, to be fair, Camry and Prius seem to attract drivers who often are less than "with it" when on the road..

    Floormat issue was a horrible coincidence, IMO.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    And it's happened locally...driver error couldn't be at play here, nah no way
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    An 80 year old guy hit the gas on his new SL63 AMG and ended up in the bank manager's office of my local Chase bank. Not a word in the paper. Does MB keep a tighter rein on the news than Toyota? Though this guy did not try to lie his way out of responsibility. He was apologetic to the manager for making a huge mess of his office Friday just before closing time.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited July 2012
    Exactly. MB had no news to suppress. Pedal misapplication is not news, unless it's a Toyota and the oblivious driver doesn't want to admit a mistake.

    And that 80 year old is doing it right - not only by admitting simple error and moving on, but by daring to live it up in a car like that at his age to begin with. Excellent :shades:
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