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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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  • now that toyota is admitting they had problems going back to 2005 i wonder if they will do a recall on those vehicles? as i own a 2005 camry
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312
    Usually no one admits anything in a settlement....

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312
    Why did Toyota settle so fast after the verdict?

    "The electronic glitch has been blamed by some experts and motorists for years, but Toyota has steadfastly denied it. The company has instead blamed floormats creeping up on accelerator pedals and even sticky pedals; it fixed both supposed flaws after recalls. Federal authorities have tended to back the company's position that an electronic design flaw isn't responsible.

    Still, the company has moved to settle several lawsuits in which its electronics could have been implicated. These include a $10-million deal reached in 2010 with survivors of a California Highway patrolman and three family members killed in a runaway Lexus ES outside San Diego.

    The Bookout verdict could embolden more plaintiffs to reexamine the company's electronics design. If that happens, the question of whether the automaker has been dodging blame for faulty engineering might finally get an answer. Stay tuned." (LA Times)

    I think the Lexus case turned on the mats and the extreme publicity, not the electronics, and I'm not sure what the plaintiff's experts at Safety Research & Strategies could come up with after all the investigations, from NASA on down.

    "But Sean Kane, who heads a safety research company in Massachusetts, said the ruling in the Oklahoma case could influence how Toyota proceeds with the dozens of pending lawsuits that target the vehicle's electronics.

    "It's important that this case is only one of many we've examined in which you can point to nothing other than the electronics system in the car," Kane said. "The problem for Toyota in this case was there was a preponderance of evidence to show this wasn't a driver error issue, and it clearly wasn't a floor mat."

    "The fact that it was a jury in Oklahoma — which is generally considered a very conservative, not plaintiff-friendly state — that doesn't bode very well for Toyota." (Yahoo News)

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,056
    I still wonder about that professor that said he could duplicate the electronic problem until Toyota threatened to pull funding from the University where he taught. Looks like more academics are doing research.

    If you have a Toyota vehicle (in the model year 2002-2010) that exhibits sudden unintended acceleration, please contact me

    http://users.ece.cmu.edu/~raj/toyota.html
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,056
    “We are fully convinced that Toyota’s conduct from the time the electronic throttle control system was designed has been shameful,” J. Cole Portis, a lawyer for the plaintiffs, said. “We appreciate that the jury had the courage to let Toyota and the public know that Toyota was reckless.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/26/business/toyota-agrees-to-settlement-in-fatal-- acceleration-crash.html?_r=0
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312
    edited October 2013
    Some research - that guy didn't even mention tin whiskers. ;)

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  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,387
    > that guy didn't even mention tin whiskers.

    He forgot to include the handling of the past sludging, excuse me, gel problems too.

    As for the electronics, I still believe that _some_ of the problems are from without the group of floor mats, accelerator sender sticking, aged people who suddenly forget which pedal is the brake in the car they've been driving for weeks, months, years. It's my opinion there's another option and toyota knows what it is.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312
    edited October 2013
    Don't buy the "little old lady" theory 100% of the time? That's what hammered Toyota in Oklahoma, according to Sean Kane's site:

    "The Bookout case had some advantages – a driver who survived the crash and could testify about what happened, and very long tire marks which could attest to her claims of trying to stop the vehicle. Perhaps Toyota was betting the confused-old-lady-driver card would trump all. (Elderly women, poor dears, always pouring boiling water over door knobs, mistaking them for teacups.)"

    I suppose the very long tire marks could be Camry burnouts.

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  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 29,056
    I suppose the very long tire marks could be Camry burnouts.

    I would imagine a cop could tell the difference between braking and spinning tires. The tires should be a giveaway if it is not a firey crash. The biggest obstacle is the $millions Toyota is willing to spend to win any case. When they give in they know they have lost the battle.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312
    Camry burnouts was a bit of irony, but I suppose it's not funny to the families.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,331
    edited October 2013
    That man's experiment was discredited because he design elaborate systems to make the original circuits malfunction. In other words, he sabotaged it.

    I could make your ball point pen blow up, in other words.

    "Automotive experts on hand argued that Gilbert's experiments couldn't be recreated on a real road in the real world. They said the professor had shaved away insulation on wiring and connected wires that wouldn't touch.

    Chris Gerdes, director of the Center for Automotive Research at Stanford University, concluded that Gilbert's findings contain "no evidence that I've seen to indicate that this situation is happening at all in the real world."

    Matthew Schwall, an engineer from automotive research firm Exponent Inc., called Gilbert's research "unrealistic manipulation." Exponent prepared a 43-page study that serves as a rebuttal to Gilbert's research. "


    IT GETS BETTER:

    "As a result, the AP [via CBC] reports that Toyota has pulled funding for two internships at SIU, two Toyota employees resigned from its automotive technology program advisory board, and another demanded that Gilbert be fired. The AP seems very keen to call these retaliations “smears,” but given recent revelations about the government investigation into Toyota’s electronic throttle control system, (Shiftright's comment---that is, no evidence of fault found) it seems that Gilbert and SIU are simply reaping what they’ve sown."

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312
    edited October 2013
    Gary's link was for a different professor at a different school however.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,331
    Gilbert, right? I corrected that.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312
    edited October 2013
    Prof. Raj Rajkumar, Professor of Electrical and Computer Engineering at Carnegie Mellon University. He's also, ahem, Co-Director for two General Motors-Carnegie Mellon Collaborative Research Labs. :)

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,331
    Oh yeah, I read his report. Very interesting, but it wasn't about "proving" any defect---it was speculation about how such a defect might occur and how a manufacturer might design a way to prevent what might happen.

    The report states quite clearly that no one has duplicated a fault in the Toyota system in the real world.

    Also, the professor recommends that should this happen to you, to put the car in neutral, turn off the ignition and don't pump the brakes repeatedly.

    So what he's implying is that even if there was a defect causing UA, that the driver could over-ride it.

    'Nuff said. I agree with the Prof 100% on that.

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  • mcdawggmcdawgg Posts: 1,668
    edited October 2013
    "The report states quite clearly that no one has duplicated a fault in the Toyota system in the real world.

    Also, the professor recommends that should this happen to you, to put the car in neutral, turn off the ignition and don't pump the brakes repeatedly.

    So what he's implying is that even if there was a defect causing UA, that the driver could over-ride it."

    I agree. What's sad is the hate group that tries to prove otherwise, and even hopes that the fault is real. It's my opinion that some people pray that Toyota makes a mistake, or even try to blame Toyota for something without any evidence. Sad.
  • Just purchased a 2007 Sequoia. Looking to replace all the interior trim on the hatch door. It's all scratched up and want to replace with new. Any web sites I can purchase this or do I need to go to a dealer?
  • ClairesClaires Chicago areaPosts: 979
    Hi, David,

    Try posting in the Sequoia Maintenance & Repair topic here:
    http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/WebX/.eec8948

    ClaireS, Host
    Automotive News & Views | Coupes & Convertibles

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  • jessie_rjessie_r Posts: 2
    edited January 31

    Interesting article on the software possibly involved if you haven't read about it yet. Toyota is still all my family will buy, never had issues here.

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,331

    It is interesting though, that, as far as I've been able to research, this type of incident doesn't seem to happen with manual transmission cars at all.

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  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312

    Breaking news that so far is just on a Wall St Journal registration req'd page.

    "Toyota Motor Corp. is close to a deal to pay more than $1 billion to end a U.S. criminal probe of how it disclosed drivers' complaints of unintended acceleration, according to people familiar with the matter.

    A settlement could come despite a lack of evidence to date that the cars suffered from a mechanical or electronic defect. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration never found flaws in the electronic throttle-control or control software of the cars in question and determined operator error or floor mats trapping accelerator pedals were involved in most accidents."

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 17,785

    I still don't believe it.

  • fintailfintail Posts: 34,010

    America, protect the stupid.

  • berriberri Posts: 4,235

    Yep. all these class action lawyers are accomplishing is to drive up costs for the rest of Americans. There is no free lunch. This is overhead that gets added back into prices over time and/or gets written off taxes reducing government revenue that the rest of us have to make up in our taxes.

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,387

    WSJ article full link works: http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-449664/

    "In taking on Toyota, prosecutors are going after an industry that watchdog groups have long complained is given too free a ride from regulators and from legal scrutiny for safety issues."

    "“This is a landmark case because the auto industry has bobbed and weaved and done everything possible to avoid criminal sanctions forever,” said Joan Claybrook, who led NHTSA from 1977 to 1981."

    ""Prosecutors’ settlement with Toyota is expected to include a criminal deferred prosecution agreement with the car maker, according to several people familiar with the negotiations.

    "The precise terms of the agreement that is being considered with Toyota are unclear, but such agreements generally place a company facing prosecution under probation for a set number of years, during which time the company has to fulfill certain compliance obligations to avoid criminal charges."

  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 41,312
    edited February 8

    Hm, the story also says "Toyota said in November 2013 that it had received two subpoenas each from the Securities and Exchange Commission and Manhattan federal prosecutors in February and June 2010 related to "unintended acceleration and certain financial records...."

    That helps further explain why Toyota settled the class action.

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