Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Never one to miss a good class action opportunity, Cincinnati's Stan Chesley is now involved.
Chesley is a Cincinnati attorney and the article is in the Enquirer, so most of the blog posts after it are from online Enquirer readers.
In among the raucous posts by believers after the above-linked article, is this one, typical of what the class action is really about:
This problem started before 2007. My daughter drives a 2005 Corolla and in 2006 she was pulling into a space in a parking garage. As she was pulling in and slowly took her foot off the brake the car shot forward and slammed into the concrete wall. She called me hysterical because the car shot forward so abrubtly, and the airbags did not deploy. She is actually lucky the wall was there and this hadn't happened on the expressway. We had the car towed to a Toyota dealership with $5,000 work of damage. We talked to several reps from Toyota and they claimed that they checked the computer to see if it indicated sudden acceleration, which "they say" did not, but NOW they are questioning the validity of the computer systems in the cars. In addition to this issue, the car didn't have floor mats on the driver's side. This whole story is sounding all too familiar and scares me to death because she still owns this car and drives her family in it. We have owned Toyotas since 1983, and this is totally unbelievable. There have been too many lives lost at this point. Something needs to be done NOW by Toyota bar all cost. Their reputation is on the line right now, and I don't like what I see.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The Peugeot 107 and Citroen C1 models were produced at the facility the company shares with crisis-hit Toyota in the Czech Republic.
The move
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1248177/Toyota-recall-Last-wor- ds-father-family-died-Lexus-crash.html#ixzz0eThDCJfv
i would also add four names to that list of cars that supposed have but actually don't have this "feature", a 530 and a G37x. tapping on the brake does nothing to the accelerator at all.
two friends of mine tried on their S5 and GL450 and none of those vehicles have this feature that they are supposed to have, per our resident experts here.
it depends on how the driving public wants to take this thing. All software is buggy. the only difference is that the more complicated, the buggier it is.
if the driving public has zero tolerance for any bug in the software, and the manufacturers would have no choice but to test the auto software as they do with avionics, well, you will end up paying a 737-class price for your Ford Focus.
if we take a reasonable approach and improve driver education, well, we will end up in a better place.
my advice to anyone with no tolerance to risk is NOT to live. there literally is no other way out.
the choice is collectively ours.
If this thing fixes the sudden accelerations where the pedals are not involved, who wouldn't "take this thing" one way and one way only?
This is Toyota's problem that needs to be addressed.
Are you suggesting suicide if someone doesn't have tolerance for risk?
Are you suggesting if someone doesn't think software/firmware in a car computer shouldn't be failsafe, they have only one way out?
I disagree. If there is a problem in the computer handling sensor input, there need to be checks that shut the computer's control down so it doesn't give full throttle acceleration from a dead stop with the accelator pedal untouched, e.g., such as during parking.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Back in the 1990's Toyota hid recalls for 8 years!!!
-Rocky
-Rocky
Those two flaws in vehicles don't compare with the unintended acceleration and the ongoing coverup.
The Pinto gas tank only caught fire (not exploded) if the car were hit in the rear, hard. Then there was no fire unless the car was hit again in the secondary impact which caused metal to rub and generate a spark which caught the gasoline the might, might be leaking out the rear of the tank through the intrusion caused by the rear axle differential housing.
This didn't happen in every accident, and it didn't happen when driving your Pinto around and parking and going down the highway. It only occurred in that unlikely event of a severe REAR end accident.
Same for Chevy truck fuel tank.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Alex, I'll take Side Impact Explosions for $200 please.....
More importantly, what year did both of those occur?
This is 2010, the age of Toyota setting itself apart from all other automakers or are we comparing the Camry to the Pinto?
According to witnesses of the San Diego ES350 crash, It burst into flames after rolling several times. Does that mean we should add poorly designed gas tank to the other recalls for the Lexus ES350? Toyota is the one in the hot seat now. The other auto makers have had problems and dealt with them. Now it is Toyota's turn to get their act together.
>flaw are not at issue. It comes down to statistics
The statistics are much more easily collected and collated now than when the Pinto was found to need a rubber diaper to prevent metal-to-metal contact if a rear collision were hard enough to move the differential housing into the tank.
Also I don't recall Pinto being marketed as the greatest car with tremendous reliability and and perfect safety rating. I also don't recall that advertising and selling continuing even after early reports that fires did occur.
I said many times in forums that the reputation leads by 3-4 years here over reality. Some reputations have gone up to better than people's perceptions and memories from friends and family give them; others have gone down and people still thought the reputation were much greater than is deserved.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
LaHood Called Automaker 'A Little Safety Deaf' During Probe Of Problem
Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood is advising owners of recalled Toyotas to stop driving them and seek repair immediately.
LaHood's warning came Wednesday in testimony before a House Appropriations subcommittee on transportation. LaHood says his advice to owners is to "stop driving it. Take it to a Toyota dealer because they believe they have a fix for it."
http://wcbstv.com/local/stop.driving.toyotas.2.1467177.html
If you drive a Toyota under recall and have an accident where someone is injured, you could be part of any lawsuit. The liability switches from Toyota to the owner that disregards the mandate.
I know Toyota quality has dropped, but if the Camry is now being compared to a Pinto...oh my :sick:
Transportation Sec'y: Don't Drive Recalled Toyotas :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
Link to news article. Just hitting news now - can't find others as yet.
http://money.cnn.com/2010/02/03/news/companies/dot_toyota_lahood/index.htm?hpt=T- 1
Oh no!
Anyone doubt this is not politically motivated by the UAW controlled Congress and Administration?
Those two flaws in vehicles don't compare with the unintended acceleration and the ongoing coverup.
While I'm no apologist for Toyota, and they are rightly getting their dues (did you see today's comment from the government that owners of recalled vehicles should stop driving their cars and get them fixed?) -- Ford's lawyers saying it is cheaper to let a few people burn to death and pay those lawsuits than to redesign the Pinto is IMHO *much worse* than anything we've seen from Toyota at this time. Maybe not if more stuff comes out.
No, no, no !! Owners need to take more of a Soprano's approach if they are not getting their concerns addressed by Toyots dealers.
I'd take my car down to the dealer and get a repair or have them buy it back for KBB retail, or tell them the option is your car's going to be across the street running from their lot and showroom, and geez it might just accelerate right into their showroom. :P
Maybe the government could help people by redefining an attempt at a repair, that can be counted towards the Lemon Law. For instance if the consumer documents taking the vehicle 3X to the dealer and the dealer says they have no fix, or appointments are months out, that doesn't matter.
If the dealer turns away the request for repair without providing a similar rental, then that's an "attempt-at-fix". 3 of those and Toyota is forced to buy it back as a Lemon. Consumers would have the choice to do that, or to wait months for a Toyota fix.
Someone stole the engine or the wheels?
Are you getting, seems like there is a new story every hour...now its the Prius with bad breaks, Don't drive your Toyota, and the afternoon has just begun.
I will stick with my Prius, at least until one of the big three develops an auto that can achieve 50MPG. The Chevy Volt, at $40,0000.00, is beyond the means of most middle class Americans, and it renains to be be seen how the Volt will perform in everyday use..
Time for an aftermarket product..??
Have a microprocessor "watch" the existing brake fluid pressure sensor and the EFI PWM pulse width. If the brake pressure rises above a certain level and the PWM doesn't decline cognizant with the idle setting within a second or so then use a relay to OPEN the EFI or fuel pump circuit.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a5oF1G1ULGtY&pos=1
Prius is also being investigated.. It may not be as serious as Camry etc.. But it is not home free yet...
http://www.leftlanenews.com/japan-u-s-to-investigate-prius-brakes-apple-co-found- er-complains-of-acceleration-issue.html
Japan, U.S. to investigate Prius brakes; Apple co-founder complains of acceleration issue
02/03/2010, 10:23 AMBy Andrew Ganz
Toyota’s popular Prius – in many ways the company’s flagship model – has been insulated from the automaker’s massive unintended acceleration recall, but now the hybrid is undergoing scrutiny over a brake-related issue that has been blamed in at least one wreck in Japan. Meanwhile, Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak says his 2010 Prius has a software issue that causes it to continue accelerating until the brakes are applied.
The scrutiny applies only to Toyota’s all-new 2010 Prius, which was not involved in the automaker’s accelerator pedal recall.
The issue, according to Toyota, stems from weak performance on rough or frozen roads. It is unclear if the problem is related to the vehicle’s brake pedal, ABS system or something separate.
“The complaints received via our dealers center around when drivers are on a bumpy road or frozen surface,” Paul Nolasco, a Toyota spokesman in Japan, told CNN. “The driver steps on the brake and they do not get as full of a braking feel as expected.”
Japan’s Transport Ministry has recorded 14 brake-related complaints since the third-generation Prius launched in its home market in May and Kyodo News says that more than 100 complaints have been lodged in the U.S. One wreck was recorded in Japan and two have been noted in the U.S., according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
U.S. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood confirmed this morning that federal regulators are investigating Prius brakes in addition to their general probe about whether electronics – and not just pedal design – could be the root of the automaker’s unintended acceleration recall.
Apple co-founder speaks out about Prius accelerator
Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple, says that his 2010 Prius experiences an unintended acceleration issue that he says is related to the vehicle’s drive-by-wire software, not the actual physical pedal.
“Toyota has this accelerator problem we’ve all heard about,” Wozniak said on Monday during a conference. “Well, I have many models of Prius that got recalled, but I have a new model that didn’t get recalled. This new model has an accelerator that goes wild, but only under certain conditions of cruise control. And I can repeat it over and over and over again – safely. This is software. It’s not a bad accelerator pedal. It’s very scary, but luckily for me, I can hit the brakes.”
Wozniak says that, when using the cruise control to increase his Prius’ speed, the car would continue to accelerate on its own until he hit the brakes.
Wozniak has loaned his Prius to Toyota engineers, who will evaluate the car for a week to track down a problem.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/feds-investigate-toyota-electronics-for-unintended-a- cceleration.html
Feds investigate Toyota electronics for unintended acceleration
02/03/2010, 3:11 AMBy Mark Kleis
Not long after the dust seemingly settled on the investigation of the faulty pedals and floor mats causing unintended acceleration in millions of Toyotas, a new report is suggesting that the U.S. Department of Transportation is now looking into a possible electronics-based problem as another possible source of unintended acceleration. The unofficial investigation stems from the several cases of apparent unintended acceleration that have been documented without floor mats or pedals at fault.
Although the D.O.T., nor the National Highway Safety Transportation Safety Administration have formally launched an investigation into the possibility of a third source of unintended acceleration causes in Toyota vehicles, an anonymous source within the D.O.T. has reportedly confirmed that the third cause is in fact being considered.
Leftlane reported on January 15th that a Toyota Avalon owner had experienced unintended acceleration without a floor mat installed, and even managed to get the vehicle to a Toyota dealer with the vehicle still pegged at wide open throttle.
Upon arriving at the dealership, a Toyota mechanic was able to test the accelerator pedal’s range of movement with no affect on the throttle being applied by the engine. This incident seemed to have displayed the type of occurrence that is now reportedly being investigated.
The news that federal officials are looking into other possible causes for unintended acceleration may spawn new meaning to the quote Leftlane reported in a separate story earlier today, “We’re not finished with Toyota and are continuing to review possible defects and monitor the implementation of the recalls,” said Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood.
When asked about the possibility of vehicle electronics playing a role in unintended acceleration cases, John Hanson, a Toyota spokesman, said he knew little about the expanded federal investigation.
Brian Lyons, a safety and quality communications manager for Toyota said, “We will continue to cooperate fully with NHTSA on all vehicle safety issues.”
CNN - just now LaHood changes advice. Seems like he now advises owners to call, get fixed ASAP. Still not certain how he addressed this "stop driving" advice he already gave? If he did, or he purposely avoided?
I own a Toyota and only recently joined to try to stayed informed. Have researched extensively. I do have one advantage understanding UA - my son does auto development/engineering computer software. He has helped me tremendously.
I had mentioned several times I had concerns no "lid" immediately put on this. Now we have what seems to be "turf protection" of all involved. Difficulty for consumers is - what is full truth?
UA has not been effectively handled for years by many manufacturers, DHSTA, etc. Some auto manufactuers have and their complaints now low. Then we have those who rise above others- over the years. This is not just a Toyota issue, but Toyota has purportedly 40% of all complaints. Ford, Chrysler, and ? appear to have more complaints too. Poor consumers don't even have accurate numbers of complaints - no official law mandated data base. Some complaints are at DHSTA, some Toyota, some with news. etc.
Is news media pressure good?? Yes, maybe it can be. Consumers may see DHSTA and all/slow to implement systems auto manufacturers finally do something about UA & it's risks. Has been present for many, many years.
UA in and of itself is huge human safety risk. Incidents do seem small when you compare to total number of autos sold. But high human safety risk should make/makes this complaint a top priority. Not only that - this includes issues risk exposure for costs vehicle damage, increased insurance costs, loss of salary, injury or even death as result of any accident, costs of any needed medical care,effect on DMV record. etc. I am an RN, my husband was CEO of ambulance company and past California EMS commisioner, my son is also an MD. Each of us have seen first hand what can happen to people in auto accidents.
I am sure you want human safety risks decreased. All of us do. I don't care if we own a BMW, Ford, Porsche, GM, Chrysler, Honda, etc. Safety first.
I realize many will say - well it's the owners. Human error should always be factored into development of auto systems for safety. We are all human, make mistakes, and statistics show humans react differently in emergency situations. I am sure most people feel for those poor people that have had this emergency situation. Smile - this is USA and we do have big hearts.
And there is a way to implement a brake override system to control UA issue - brake and acceleration in conflict. Brakes win. Acceleration forced back to idle.
Now everyone says - difficult. Each year auto manufacturer engineers develop/do engineering for each new model. They already have engineers that do all of this, and yes, it can undeniably be done. This can be added to older recall models as well. Once developed cost to Toyota would be minimal. Toyta owns the computer programs. Overhead cost is low. Computer flashing.
I am hoping I hear more positive news releases. Hope to see Toyota get more proactive now.
Since my vehicle is not in recall, Will I ask if I can get brake override system update? Sure plan to. Even if I have to pay for it.
but then, I am not holding my breath either,
that would have been the winning strategy for you.
Beating up on Toyota must look pretty attractive to politicians anxious to divert attention from their own failures to someone else.
Toyota may have a problem with a defective part, but that's less dangerous than politicians with more power than good sense.
we just don't have good information about any of that, which is why we have this mass panic.
it depends. there are always advantages and disadvantages with any approach. that's why some people are paid lots of money making those decisions and you aren't.
"Have a microprocessor "watch" the existing brake fluid pressure sensor and the EFI PWM pulse width."
again, it depends. I for one wouldn't want anything like that in my car - what if you do want to induce an oversteer in your car through braking and acceleration at the same time? that would be quite unsafe to have your engine throttle reduced to practically zero and you would have missed that sharp turn.
Again, hopefully the market will dictate what features we collectively want.
the fiction of "Germans have it so it must be good" is lemming thinking.
then, that's why Al Gore invented the internet for, right?
Below is one of my bookmaked sites regarding what you were asking. news media do seem to use this site in reports many times. I have a couple others too. Didn't try to find. This site appears to use all UA incidents reported, and appears DHSTA has statistically watered down complaints into categories.- DHSTA statistical analysis design appears to make seem less of problem. Gets confusing.
http://www.safetyresearch.net/2010/01/29/toyota-unintended-acceleration-complain- ts-update/
yes, but at what cost? driving is definitely more risky than not driving, does that mean you will stop driving to reduce the human safety risks driving exposes you to?
most people would say no.
or are you willing to pay $2K (just pick a number) for this override feature? or your threshold is $20K or $20?
" it can undeniably be done."
we don't do a lot of things that we can do, for good reasons sometimes.
end of the day, each and everyone of us has to make a decision as to what is an acceptable level of risks for us. it is higher for some of us and lower for the rest.
if brake override is that important, you should have paid the premium for that VW (which supposedly has this override feature).
so you bought the wrong car, or your assumption about Toyota proved to be wrong.
on what factual basis can you say that?
listen, if you want conjectures, you got plenty of them.
if you want facts, keep looking and stop making assumptions.
Some events that come to mind:
Yesterday afternoon a driver decided that he wanted my spot on the Interstate, even though I was beside him. He was driving a Toyota RAV4.
This morning, a woman blasted through a stop sign in my neighborhood. If I'd been 1/2 second sooner, she would have t-boned me. She was driving a Toyota Sienna.
Also this morning, a driver pulling a Uhaul trailer was weaving in and out of rush hour traffic cutting others off. He was driving a Toyota Highlander.
There is a common thread here. They were all driving Toyota vehicles.
I'm much more concerned about the "loose nut" behind the wheel than I am concerned about UA or my accelerator pedal sticking.
Just my thoughts.
Also, a service advisor from my Toyota dealer called this morning. They will not wait for Toyota to send out recall letters. As soon as they have parts available they will call to schedule customer appointments.