Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

imidazol97 · February 2010

>Scott Yon met with two former colleagues (including Chris Santucci) who left the government to work for Toyota. Santucci testified back in December that the limited scope of investigations "worked out well for both the agency and Toyota."

But it hasn't worked out well for those in accidents and those who died. :confuse: :lemon:

revit · February 2010

We Will Never Forget...

California Highway Patrol officer Mark Saylor was driving a 2009 Lexus, on loan from his dealer, with his wife, daughter and brother-in-law in August 2009 along a highway outside of San Diego. (ABC News)

Saylor's brother-in-law, Chris Lastrella, was also in the car and called 911 when the car took off on them. Chris told a 911 operator that the accelerator was stuck and the brakes were not working. (ABC News)

All four people died after the Lexus hit a vehicle, crashed into an embankment and burst into flames. (ABC News)

Toyota said the accident was caused by a wrong-sized, all-weather rubber floor mat in the car that was pushed down and caught the gas pedal, holding it down. (ABC News)

The funeral procession carrying all four hearses with the caskets of Mark Saylor, his wife Cleofe LaStrella Saylor, their daughter Mahala Saylor and Cleofe's brother Chris LaStrella left the Corpus Christi Catholic Church en route to Glen Abbey Memorial Park for internment after services. (PEGGY PEATTIE/Union-Tribune/ZUMApress/Newscom)

gagrice · February 2010

Better be careful. I got called derogatory names for reminding people of that horrible accident. That could have been avoided if Toyota and Lexus were a bit more proactive in their pursuit of perfection. Especially in keeping their dealers in line and informed.

revit · February 2010

That could have been avoided if Toyota and Lexus were a bit more proactive in their pursuit of perfection. Especially in keeping their dealers in line and informed.

Yes, exactly. Nothing wrong with stating the truth. Unfortunately, meaning times people just don't like nor can they handle it. Like Toyota, most of their life is spent in denial.

sharonkl · February 2010

You are welcome. It appears this is one of the consumer watchdog agencies. The head of this agency seems to be quoted many times by newspapers. That is how I discovered site..

The second report I finally did read, but have not completely analyzed yet. Actually found some interesting observations. Incident reports when a owner on voluntary basis only files - seems DHTSA investigations/possible investigations complaints have been restricted as to what UA incident is. And was per Toyota request so actual numbers are much less., and lots are ignored - with this site challenging. They do show some conflicts of what DHTSA states, and what the actual owner's reports show. The experts statements about the quality of DHSTA investigation appears good. But don't even claim to know who they are.

Yes, they do appear to be after Toyota this time, and appears to be after DHTSA for not doing thorough enough investigation. If what this site claims is true and factual, I did see faulty DHTSA investigation research present. If you go to their article Sudden Acceleration it mentions many manufacturers.

To be objective & fair to this site, I do see they will go after any manufacturer. Also see they say UA problem is not just Toyota.

Your comment:
"The same problem exists with the current recall of gas pedal assemblies. They haven't been connected to single accident."
I am not sure. But have seen this claim too..Note second Report from that site has many complaints at the end.

Just passing along for everyone to review. compare. Just me trying to look at all I can find.

I am just listening to CNN and past head of DHSTA is on. She states DHSTA has not been investigating well. Etc. Shucks missed rest of interview. H-mmmm

You mention "powers to be" - as in NHTSA? Have seen lots on DHTSA - seem to be in protective mode too. Guess they have to be kept honest too.

sharonkl · February 2010

I spoke with my son and he was not sure if ignition switch of my particular model was connected to a computer board. But said it sure could be. His expertise is Porsche, BMW, Bentley, VW,etc. No help unfortunately.

Hopefully all systems would not shut down/lockup at once.

I do agree would sure be nice to see a simple manual emergency vehicle shutdown switch.

sharonkl · February 2010

FYI only - Friendly heads up

This link is Safety Report. Refer to UA incidents - as you go down in article reference is made as to what happened to this ex attorney for Toyota. Seems attorney in Texas asked for court order to produce Biller's files - possibly discovery - all records now under court seal. Seems 17 cases Texas attorney was hoping to pursue - dismissed in December. Seems like Toyota won. What happens to Biller now - and his case not sure.

http://www.safetyresearch.net/Library/V6I6.pdf

wwest · February 2010

"...dealers in line.."

Sorry, we, the US public, are at fault there. US auto dealers have managed to get state laws passed that protect them from close oversight/directives and management by/of the manufacturers.

lzc · February 2010

>>>"The same problem exists with the current recall of gas pedal assemblies. They haven't been connected to single accident."

I base that on comments from the director of automobile testing for Consumer Reports magazine, who also thought the reaction to the recall "overblown."

And the preliminary report on the San Diego-area Lexus crash by NHTSA found:

"Upon removal of the pedal from the vehicle, the rotational motion of the pedal assembly was confirmed to still be operational. The return action was smooth and unencumbered."

Of course I'm not ruling anything out, just that some evidence connecting the faulty pedal to an accident would be nice if we're going to conclude it's responsible for UA and resulting accidents.

beachfish2 · February 2010

Evidence? Next you'll want everybody to stop jumping to conclusions until there are some hard facts.

People demanded "do something now" and they did.

The Federal government has more UA than any Toyota. Have you seen the size of the deficit and the out of control budget? We're broken.

juxto · February 2010

I've been reading this toyota thing for some time here. I was in the market to replace my 2000 accord (110k miles) and the 2010 6 cyl XLE camry was the car of my choice (never another honda, but that's a different story). My father-in-law passed away and my mother-in-law wanted to trade me her very nice 2002 taurus (DOHC 6 cyl loaded SES with about 50k miles on it) for the honda. She doesn't drive much and wanted a smaller car that didn't remind her of him. So I searched the web for 2002 taurus problems and it seems ford did recalls on the taurus through 2001 for coil springs that were suddenly breaking and flattening tires. It appears the problem continues through the 2002 model, but that it was not included in the recall. My point? The thought of a potential coil spring breaking bothers me enough that I'm going to pass on it. I don't want to be wondering if/when it will happen. I don't want it in the back of my mind every time I get in the car. I believe the same will likely be true for many toyota owners. They'll be wondering if/when for them. They'll be wondering if the problem has really been resolved, if it can recur, etc. I think future car buyers will also have this in the back of their heads. Not just the problem with the car, but the way toyota has dealt with it. To me it's been a "sneaky" way of doing business - one which tells me it is not a company I want to be associated with.

gtgtcobra · February 2010

All Toyota did was put a shim behind the pedal where the spring is located. They did nothing else. No ECU or ECM adjustments or flash. They did just the shim.
I was told that there might be a new gas pedal assembly coming, but they don't know when. So right now, I don't know whether or not there will be any other recal repairs for the gas pedal on my Camry? Only time will tell.
Other than that, my vehicle is running fine from what I can see. I got it to drive it and that's what I intend to do. I am not worried about the car. It's been very reliable so far.

kernick · February 2010

have figured out how to putting fuel in an engine & and stopping the fuel-flow, so complicated! :P :P

Pedals with complicated motions, pedals too close together, can't figure out how to keep a mat in place, all sorts of sensors and computers needed to put the gas in the engine, when someone was able to do it in a Model T. Whatever problem or problems drivers are having, theses are ridiculous to have.

Congrats to all the electrical, software, and design engineers out there involved in making products like this!

This goes out to all auto manufacturers. Make the products simpler, less costly, and without all these systems that can fail and need costly repair.

lzc · February 2010

>>This goes out to all auto manufacturers. Make the products simpler, less costly, and without all these systems that can fail and need costly repair.

Practically speaking, the only way to do this--and meet emissions and mileage requirements--would be to reduce engine size drastically. Few Americans want to drive a car with 1.2L engine.

The complex electronics on modern cars are necessary to reduce weight, improve mileage, clean up the exhaust, and still give Americans the size car and power they want.

graphicguy · February 2010

gtg....that's good news. Glad things seem to be "OK" and you have this behind you.

There may be a silver lining here. That is, I bet every other manufacturer out there is testing and retesting their accelerator and brake hardware/firmware/software to make certain they don't suffer the same fate as Toyota is suffering.

On a side note, the annual car show is coming up towards the end of this month in Cincinnati. I always attend. Wonder what Toyota/Lexus will be showing in their booths?

Camry? Corolla? Prius? ES350?

I'm sure it's too late to pull out of the show. But, I would think that the product mix is up to the manufacturers.

kyfdx · February 2010

I think prototypes, future vehicles, upcoming models, etc.. might be up to the manufacturers, but our local show in Cincinnati is run by the GCADA, the local car dealer's association...

For most of the makes, the local dealers supply the staffing and the vehicles..

I doubt the local Toyota dealers would want to be left out.... or, to not show 70% of their model line-up, which will be back on sale at their dealerships, shortly..

just my $0.02

revit · February 2010

Japanese Media Slam Toyota Chief for Crisis Responsee

TOKYO  Japanese media sharply criticized Toyota's president Saturday for what they called a delayed and unconvincing explanation for the massive car recall that has sullied the world's biggest automaker, a Japanese corporate icon.

Akio Toyoda, the founder's grandson appointed to lead Toyota Motor Corp. last June, emerged late Friday to apologize and address criticism that the company mishandled a crisis over sticking gas pedals. But he stopped short of ordering a recall for Toyota's iconic Prius hybrid over separate braking problems.

Toyoda's appearance before reporters at a company office in the central Japanese city of Nagoya made front pages of the country's leading newspapers  but won no praise.

"Words are not enough," the top Nikkei business daily commented in an editorial. "The company's crisis management ability is being subjected to severe scrutiny."

jim_dandy · February 2010

WOW! Toyota designed a Christine! And not just one! 6.5 Million!

(Christine is a horror novel by Stephen King, published in 1983. It tells the story of a vintage automobile apparently possessed by supernatural forces.)

Here is an article from an engineering perspective:

'Toyota's latest woes may be hard-wired"

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-10446502-64.html?tag=smallCarouselArea.2

jd

wwest · February 2010

Obviously you have NEVER driven or worked on a model T.....

So simple it needed CONSTANT, daily, maintainance

gagrice · February 2010

Model T owners carried a roll of bailing wire and channel lock pliers. I am sure a screwdriver was handy for adjusting the carb. It did put the horse and buggy out of business.

fleurdelis · February 2010

Not only are the ignition buttons (on certain Toyota models) unfamiliar to most US drivers, but isn't the 3 second delay a safety hazard in itself, when faced with an emergency???

Think of how far one can travel in 3 seconds at 70 and/or 100 miles per hour! 3 seconds is an eternity.

By contrast, the turning off of a normal key ignition switch can occur in less than a second.

graphicguy · February 2010

Don't know why but it seems as if the "reply" button has disappeared on this thread.

In any event, kyfdx....I've seen both dealer personnel and manufacturers' reps at our car show. I do agree, I don't think I'd want 70% of my model line up missing from the show floor.

On the other hand, I don't know if I would want to answer the same tired questions over and over again as a Toyota rep on the show floor regarding brakes and UA, either.

Maybe it would be a good chance for the Toyota people to "state their case" from their perspective, too.

gagrice · February 2010

At 120 MPH that was reported in the fatal San Diego accident, that would be nearly two football fields to stop the engine. Then another football field to get it to stop with no assist. The answer to another of my questions never answered by the ToyLex faithful. What happens with electronic start stop when you do get it to work? Does that lock the steering wheel the same as turning the key all the way off? Will it even work at WOT going 120 MPH? Lexus has been very quiet throughout these last few months. Like they think they are above the fray. I can go along with blaming the dealer as my experience with them is far less than positive.

imidazol97 · February 2010

>reply button

It's due to the 800 pixel wide picture of the RED Plymouth! B eautiful car.

Post needed to have
width="650" height="487" inserted before the final greater than sign after making it into an IMG file using the button. Keep the quote marks and just put a space before the word width.

revit · February 2010

Glad to hear you got yours taken care of.

I need to do the same, but last I checked with my dealer they were still waiting for the parts to come.

tomjava · February 2010

Car and Driver magazine did a test on camry brake travelling at 60mph and then at 120mph. In both intances the brake is able to stop camry without any problem. I amazed that this poor CHP fellow who has been trained extensively on how to use vehicle equipped with ABS or handle a blow out tire during highspeed chase or other emergency situation , did not stomp on the brake right away and shifted the gear to Neutral. RIP.

mnf · February 2010

Thats great good to hear how long did it take for them to do the fix when it was in the shop. I take mine in next week it will be good to have peace of mind just the same. Dont let the sky is falling posts from some on here steer you away. Most of those trolls will move on to a differant crisis after the Toyota blood clears out of the water.

Enjoy

MNF

wwest · February 2010

Been awhile ago but I seem to remember that removing the spark plugs and cleaning them "daily" to prevent fouling on the next drive was SOP. Was it the model T that had the "spark box" or was that the model A..??

kernick · February 2010

or other emergency situation , did not stomp on the brake right away and shifted the gear to Neutral.

Aren't the automatic transmission and ABS electronic. What's your expertise to think they are stand alone systems, such that the circuits for those don't go thru the same computer-board as that ECU (or whatever the problem is).

You are assuming the brake control and transmission control still function, when the problem creates UA.

I would think that because a trained driver such as a state trooper, can't stop, that that is a good indicator that the brakes pedals and transmission lever are electronically dead in that scenario.

Maybe you missed my prior posts on this issue, since there are so many posts each day. So I'll repeat:

The best way to stop a machine from operating is to shutoff it's energy source - whether that be gasoline, electricity, or pressurized air. You'd prefer NOT to rely on electronics to perform the shutoffs. Good shutoffs would be a normally-closed (spring-loaded) valve in the fuel-line, or a physical disconnection of the battery. In a vehicle it would be preferable to stop the fuel supply to the engine, and allow the battery to still provide energy to other systems such as lights.

Probably someone could make a fortune, designing (patent?) a fuel-line valve that is connected to a rod that goes up thru the vehicle floor and is connected to a big push-button next to the shifter. The driver pushes down on the button, the valve snaps shut, the engine sputters and the driver pulls over. Anyone does it, I'd appreciate a few %.

sharonkl · February 2010

Thanks for providing this good link. I do like the detailed engineers explanation how drive by wire electronic throttles work. How our foot pressure on the pedal application is actually controlled by computer sensors telling our autos how much to accelerate. Some may say/argue he might be biased, but fact is explanation is quite good. That alone makes article excellent for us. Personal opinion - one of better ones I have read.

Then I seem to question why DHTSA and some auto manufacturers who also have higher complaints when compared to all manufacturers have not addressed while others have? Seemed some of those who have addressed have installed brake override systems as last resort fail safe. Many European auto manufacturers have. When I spoke with my son that was first things he asked - do I have brake override?
I was quite ignorant, and didn't know. Sure found out quickly Toyota does not have.

I have just not researched all the manufacturers that have few complaints to actually see if they have brake override systems. Most average knowledged owners are not even aware of these systems.

DHTSA does not presently require auto manufacturers to have these systems. But still seems enough manufacturers have implemented these systems. Those who have incidents are now low.

Incidents numbers may seem small, but deaths have occurred (number is also debatable and what DHTSA has reported and what outside safety agencies claim do differ- which is correct?- not an expert to evaluate who telling truth). .

Fact is our autos are full of computers now. We all know the more complex all products are that we buy will/can increase the statistcal incidents for repair, problems, or breakdown.

I have taken it upon myself to try to learn since this started. Below is a link for Toyota UA timeline. Thought was good and does appear to match other reports I have read and bookmarked. Only keep going back to this site as seems best complete documentation I can presently find. Other sites documentation seem not as good.Could they be biased - yes- don't know for sure - they are a consultant type agency advocating consumer protection, for attorneys, appear to do investigations, etc. Still they are quoted frequently.

http://www.safetyresearch.net/toyota-sudden-unintended-

Appears this sad deadly accident has been the most influential "final straw that breaks camels back" leading to where we are now.
(1) San Diego veteran CHP officer and family killed in a loaner from Toyota Dealership while their Toyota model was being repaired - - August 28, 2009 - model crashed Lexus ES350 - Toyota says floor mat issue- DHTSA says floor mat -

NOTE - DHTSA doesn't include this accident in their UA statistical death stats. ????

NOTE REFER BACK TO TOYOTA UA TIMELINE - SEE EARLIER COMPLAINTS LEXUS ES MODELS - ES350 - TOYOTA AND NHTSA - NOTE TIMELINE - EARLIER TO PRESENT. floor mats
keep getting blamed alot - were to be re-designed. several years ago - if issue blamed earlier and addressed why does it continue being blamed by Toyota & DHTSA - how can floor mat design problems continue when a dealer has had prior recalls. Corporate QA should have addressed/eliminated any/all issues any future floor mat design interference, etc. problems. Just some my
personal observations and questions I have. Quality Assurance - should be. .Most of us were unaware of how long existed, past decisions, etc.

Where does Toyota announcing November, 2009 they will install brake override sytems on all models 2011 fit into all of this????
This statement came after floor mat recall October, 2009, and before pedal recall December, 2009 . Then rumors/reports exist elsewhere some recall models will receive these flashes for brake override but not all recall models. Rumors 2010 models will have now too? Have seen some reports/individuals questioning if Toyota will secretly/quietly flash the brake overrride systems update into all models if they are brought in for service?

This brake override announcement by Toyata is great. I do want. But I still seem to question the CONFLICT to Toyota statements no problem with electronics exist. Brake Override systems will take away problem with electronic bugs. When Brakes & acceleration in conflict brakes win. Toyota Electronic bugs dealt with. Is this to eliminate cause? Eliminate what they don't know? Part of Toyota and DHTSA agreement to make both appear good in the end?? Both can make claims "total success" in a year?? Both can save face???

Any comments to above paragraph questions???

Lots still unraveling. Am trying to not be anti-Toyota or pro-Toyota. I am actually more pro-Toyota as I have a Toyota. I am rooting for them. But I still need to look at any information I can find. Lots of questions & will eventually form my own opinion. Just as each of us will.

All of you are great. Appreciate your comments and help since I have starting blogging here.

explorerx4 · February 2010

CR had some trouble getting a Venza to stop from 60. Maybe it was the second time.
The increasing speed could have snuck up on the CHP officer. If he tried to slow the car down first, then jam the brakes, it could have been too late.

sharonkl · February 2010

I can most definitely see where you are coming from.

CHP noted in their report - link posted earlier by someone - no on dash instructions for this "push and hold 3 seconds" in emergency to kill engine. This statement rings loud and clear. Seems they may have also omitted some other safety issues with this push button ignition type system present on this auto.

explorerx4 · February 2010

i will bet from now on, all cars with a push button ignition will have a mandatory little sticker on the sun visor. :sick:

lzc · February 2010

>>This brake override announcement by Toyata is great. I do want.

Depending on which Toyota you own, maybe you already have the override. From today's NY Times:

"The company will install a brake override system on the affected Camry, Avalon, and Lexus ES 350, IS 350 and IS 250. This system cuts engine power in case the accelerator and brake pedals are applied at the same time. The system already exists on the Prius and other hybrids.

bigmacak22 · February 2010

as i seeing this problem with toyota..and someone is blaming now a car softwares and some of them are saying about a gas pedal..what i realize..that those people are lieng..they are just jealous..because imports are ruling the world..no matter where u are in the world..you can see more imports on the road that a usa cars..because imports are the best cars..for american people to beat the import cars than they need good engine..and better graphical artist who are creating a cars i mean who are getting ideas of how car can look like..buick stole the styling of a two cars..lexus and mazda..front of a buick and rear are from a lezus..tail lights are same as mazda...gm..ford..and cadillac..they are all junky cars..i would never buy a usa cars..they are known as a problem makers..if i have chance to choose from audi a8l and pontiac g8..i would be choosing audi..imports rock..so people who are having toyota do not lie about that toyota has a problems..that information is a fake..and somebody one day will pay big time for a lieng and making toyotas hard game..less problems imports has and high problems usa cars making...so who ever have the usa car..throw that cars in garbage..and get something better as a acura tl..

explorerx4 · February 2010

I love your post. It was so funny! :shades:

gagrice · February 2010

Is that you Mr. Toyoda? We saw you driving an Audi at the summit in Davos Switzerland. Good choice much better than Lexus, that go crazy and kill people.

wwest · February 2010

A better way, method, would be to have an electronics module "watching" the brake fluid pressure and the throttle position sensor(s). If the brake pressure goes above a certain threshold and the throttle sensor isn't near idle then OPEN the EFI ground return circuit.

wwest · February 2010

Why is it that only DBW gas pedals are subject to the floor mat problem.., couldn't a "hard-wired" gas pedal have the very same problem...??

And assuming so why have we never heard anything of that nature...??

Why is this subject coming up only now...??

gagrice · February 2010

I think the NHTSA has complaints on UA since DBW was first introduced by Toyota. Toyota dealers would claim all is working as it should and the NHTSA chose not to do extensive research. Over 2000 complaints filed with NHTSA over the last decade. It looks like it was always assumed it was driver error. No way to prove otherwise. One case even got the driver prosecuted for manslaughter in memory serves me. He claimed the car took off and eventually ran into another car killing the driver of that car. My understanding is that lawsuit is back on the docket. It seems the courts and the NHTSA sided with Toyota even though they had more complaints on Toyota UA than all other automakers combined. DBW as you well know is anything but simple. The more complex the more possible bugs.

sharonkl · February 2010

I had to run to store, and then back researching. Thanks for responding.

Those of you others addressing full out acceleration and brakes - there is section addressing this question posed by you. Review summary at end. Answers some questions. Seems full out throttle , the vacuum power assist of brakes cannot be replenished and effectiveness of brakes significantly reduced. Brake force in excess of 150 pounds was required to stop vehicle. Compared to 30 pounds operating normally. You can read rest.

One of many Pictures included.
Picture showing how pedal stuck with all weather floor mat looks good.

I did go out to attempt this in my RAV4 as I have two layers of carpets in my vehicle. Before anyone gets upset & scolds me - is no issue as had already checked when I left both in. Rubber mat has rubber prongs throughout on bottom that grab carpet and it stays in place. My mats don't move period. Mine are Standard Toyota RAV4 All Weather Rubber Floormats. Distance from mats in position on floor to raised pedal area is approximately 2-3 inches. Floor pedal area is raised surface above floor base..

I attempted to place my rubber mat in position so when pedal fully compressed it would get stuck. Wow - so difficult. Mat would have to be moved so far ahead and up into raised part of floor into pedal area - just in the precise position to replicate this picture and make pedal stick. Find difficult to see it move(mine don't) that far up if mat has rubber prongs - rubber mats are not smooth on bottom. And I discovered pedal would have to be fullly depressed first to actually get it stuck - could not have pedal up and then fully depress & get it stuck.. I tried many times. My RAV4 pedal appears same outwardly- not sure.

RAV4 is not ES350. So can only assume could be different configuration.

DHTSA does seem to send out letters to investigate floormats.. Results given in this report. I do see one fault and can not comment. Report statements too vague, and no complete details listing questions asked. This particular sections does reveal faulty statistical research data. Interesting 59 of 600 that responded had UA - & 35 c/o pedal interference w rubber floor mat. But still vague stated results. No reference to questions actually asked. Medical statistical research data I have helped review & discuss for Diabetes usually has.

Here is link from DHTSA Final Report April 30, 2008
re: 2007 Lexus ES-350 Unintended Accleration
http://www.autosafety.org/sites/default/files/nhtsa%20final%20report%20VRTC%20EA- 07-010%20Lexus%20Floor%20Mat.pdf

Have not fully analyzed anything else as yet. Will let you form your own
opinion.

sharonkl · February 2010

Here you go - Toyota announcement is first. Must keep reading as in more than opne location. Second is another article - and where I got Toyota link.
http://www2.toyota.co.jp/en/news/09/11/1125.html

http://www.theautoindustrieblog.com/2009/11/brake-override-feature-on-all-toyota- .html'
'
Boy must check if I have already. Prius has already?? And must find that NY times article today.
Did you bookmark it??? If you did could you send link to me???

sharonkl · February 2010

Many consumers are not totally aware of the issues with the recall. And enough will not pay attention. Time will tell.

dmathews3 · February 2010

Must have been him as I could tell by the broken english. :shades:

deltheking · February 2010

Yup,that was a hoot !! Maybe he is from China trying to get a foothold through the import mantra !! Boy,you need some serious talent to write that article..He is da man!! :P

gagrice · February 2010

Are the fixes being put into the cars on the lot and business as usual? How long will they hold off on selling their vehicles?

kernick · February 2010

If the brake pressure goes above a certain threshold and the throttle sensor isn't near idle then OPEN the EFI ground return circuit.

You're relying on sensors and software again. We have plenty of machines in our factory that jam each day because a sensor gets a piece of fuzz across it, or the sensor got bumped and knocked out of alignment. Brake pressure would be monitored by a pressure transducer, which then sends a 4-20mA signal to an I/O board which then has software to correlate that into a pressure reading and process that. How is all that more reliable then a button connected via a mechanical rod, to a valve that is mechanically powered by pre-loaded springs.

I'm proposing something simple like a bear-trap (leg-trap). Look up U.S. electrical codes and documents from OSHA and you'll see the codes on how E-Stop systems should work. These sorts of concepts for factory and industrial equipment apparently haven't made their way into many consumer products.

On 2nd though I do have one that might meet that concept. My Sears garden-tractor, has a mechanical-rod under the seat, such that you need about 50 LB of weight on the seat for it to stay running. The battery is right there. You get up off the seat, or fall off on an incline, and the engine stops. The whole tractor cost $900. These safeties to kill the engine can be rather cheap. We don't need all sorts of electronics on board a vehicle to kill the power.

gagrice · February 2010

The simple solution is to go back to the regular old ignition key switch. It directly cut power to the engine. They worked very well without all the confusion. Get rid of the steering wheel lock associated. If they want to keep that tie it to locking the car.

The unneeded complexity is what turned me off on the hybrids. I was an early proponent. Then when people were stalling on the Interstate by the dozens I had to rethink the whole concept. In 50+ years of driving, much in some of the worst weather known to man, I never felt the need for any of the modern electronic devices in a car. Besides a radio. If I had my way ABS, and all the rest would be stuffed up the tailpipe of the regulators at the EPA, NHTSA, CARB and any other meddling agency.

wwest · February 2010

"...relying on sensors and software again..."

Yes, but only as a backup, failsafe, in case the primary control system fails.

The probability of both systems failing simultaneously approaches nil'lity

beachfish2 · February 2010

Take it one more step, I want a plain old Chevy ignition switch that allows the key to be removed while the engine is running. That way I can take the keyring to unlock a gate or outbuilding, or simply not have to listen to the keys jingle while I bounce down a rough track. Or a potholed interstate in Richmond.

I had the gas pedal stick under the mat on my used '67 Chevelle. Those were the days, a small V8, a 283, a Powerglide trans and a set of chains. The car came from my aunt; the chains from my father. I was at Va Tech and when the sky was dreary and the snow was blowing we called Blacksburg Bleaksburg.

I shoveled snow 3 times yesterday and everytime I went near the new Highlander the little lights under the side mirrors came on. Stop that. Does it mean I've unlocked the door? Where's that 612 page owner's manual.

The nav book is only 268 pages.

John

Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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