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2011-12 Optima

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Comments

  • conwelpicconwelpic Member Posts: 600
    must be the area where you live, but here in Canada I haven't come across a KIA dealership yet (and travelled a good portion of the country) that remotely matches what you described. A lot of the dealership have been upgraded to the corporate standards but even the smaller ones (like mine) are still well presented and offer all the facilities.
    On my travels in the US, I can't say I noticed any dealership as you describe.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    this is a mind boggling achievement for Kia.

    I've seen k5 in person. It's absolutely stunning car. I have a soft spot for Sonata, but I must admit Optima looks better than Sonata. I must give props to Peter Schreyer. dude is like a design rock star.
  • wolverinejoe80wolverinejoe80 Member Posts: 337
    and i have to say Optima is the best looking sedan under 30k IMO. oh by the way, I recently test drove Sportage. Kia is no longer vanilla. it absolutely leap frogged my 08 santa fe in styling, execution and overall ride quality.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    As much as I am liking Kia product of recent vintage I also have to agree that Kia dealerships are dumpy in comparison with other in the vicinity. I have two of them that I sometimes spend time at on a Sunday afternoon of looking at cars without the salesman hassle and I have to say both are very much what was described. Holes in parking lot, very little inventory, run down maintenence on the building, etc. I don't really know what the dealerships used to be but I have noticed that they have done some improvements in the last year.

    It's amazing what a little good product can do for sales, what that can do for profit and what that can do to generate a little extra money for maintenence to the facilty. They should continue to get better I hope.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    I would think that's to be expected, Kia dealers being lesser quality. They were hardly a big seller in the US to my knowledge and what they did sell was value brand. So it certainly fits.

    That said, hell I'm ready to be a Kia dealership owner myself. I'm no salesman but I could make the case for the Optima all day long. Same for the Sportage and the upcoming Cadenza. I'd have to bone up on their other cars heh.

    Around me though there are some as part of a multiple dealership lot that seem quite good. Others are a bit more run down. This is based on simply driving by, I've not been to any yet in person.
  • You are aware Hyundai is recalling some new Sonatas for a steering defect? Cars have been manufactured for over 100 years and there are still first year "bugs" from every manufacturer.

    We don't agree here.


    Nope. We don't. That steering issue could just as easily crop up in year 4 as year 1. Manufacturers test the heck out of their new models before releasing them now. That is a BIG change from some years ago, when testing and retesting was not nearly so comprehensive.

    This is only anecdotal of course, but I have owned many vehicles, but since the mid-1990s, I have had no first year model problems whatsoever. Problems that have cropped up have been on a model that had been out for 4 years.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    The first year thing is my only concern with the Optima. That and I want the UVO in it, and they typically refine the cars more over the years. That said I agree with Gregg, the testing is very comprehensive and all cars go through small recalls like this. I know I've gotten at least 4 notices of things on my 2001 Jetta over the years. From small things like Hazard light switches to larger things like the brakes.
  • markleungmarkleung Member Posts: 44
    Ouch. Even if it is 60 days from today, that means no car for me for at least a week or two when my lease runs out. I guess it is worth the wait.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Dealerships vary widely. I can say for a certainty that my local Kia dealership is as good in every respect as my local Hyundai dealership... because they are the same dealership. ;) The next closest Kia dealer to me is in a joint Nissan/Kia store and is a modern, clean facility (and the sales staff is very good--I've shopped them). I don't doubt there's poor Kia dealerships... just as there's poor Hyundai dealerships, poor GM dealerships, poor Ford dealerships, poor Honda dealerships (esp. wrt sales practices), etc.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Pretty good summary, although when I read the first sentence I wondered about the writer's knowledge of the car market (or his proofreading skill maybe)--emphasis added by me:

    Few cars have done more to change a brand’s image than the sleek and surprisingly fun to drive 2010 Hyundai Sonata.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    What? You didn't like the 2010 Sonata? ;)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited September 2010
    Oh sure, nice car, but exactly the same car as the 2009 Sonata and not a lot different from the 2006-8 Sonatas. Not worth calling out by year. Now the 2011 Sonata... that is definitely sleek. The author should go check it out. (wink)
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    So late october for the Optima and 60 days later if that other article is to be believed, the turbo. Sound right?

    Oh and:

    "The new cabin is spacious and equipped with every expected near-luxury feature, including very Sync-like navigation and concierge electronics Kia calls UVO."


    Yet Edmunds said:

    http://blogs.edmunds.com/strategies/2010/08/2011-kia-optima-and-2011-kia-forte-5- -door-drop-by-edmundscom.html

    "Highlights include the new nav system (with Kia's (UVO) take on the Microsoft/ Sync multi-media setup due later in the model year), "
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited September 2010
    I really don't think you can hang your hat on what these auto writers say. They all read each others stuff and sometimes I wonder if they even sat in or drove the car sometimes they are reviewing or just regurgitating some other writers comments to a large degree. Everything I've read indicates they haven't integrated the two systems yet. Even if they did come out together(NAV and UVO) soon I would worry about glitches and subsequent frustrations.

    Now, maybe by the time the turbo comes out the bugs will worked out. (fingers crossed)
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Good point. I just read a Motor Trend article telling me a V6 was coming soon for the Optima. I think I know more about this car than most of them.
  • conwelpicconwelpic Member Posts: 600
    just got the production figures and it doesn't look like we are going to get many units for a while. They have started up the export production in August after not producing any for July, but in August they only built 882 units for export (possibly about 2 units for each dealer in North America). They built 8,100 (K5) for their domestic market.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    That wouldn't shock me. I realize they deal with many cars but I keep up on a lot of cars too and I don't do it for a living. Kind of like the auto salesman that you have to enlighten about the car you're buying. The dealerships should make them read nothing but model reviews in their downtime so they can learn a little about the product they're selling!
  • conwelpicconwelpic Member Posts: 600
    I visited the Kia Canada head office showroom in Mississauga, Ontario and was surprised to find the new Optima on display. However, because it was a pre-production model it was locked so difficult to get inside shots, but a stunning looking vehicle in the "flesh"

    image

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  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Thanks for the pics. Boy, the bottom half of the trunk lid sure looks bare. Good thing there will be a license plate to break up some. It does look good and that's the the third or fourth different set of wheels I've seen. These don't look too bad.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Very cool indeed. Thanks for posting these it looks great. I know you're following this car very closely, so is this the first time you've seen one in person? Live up to your expectations?
  • conwelpicconwelpic Member Posts: 600
    Yes its the first time, I thought I would have to wait till one arrives at the dealership. Like I said above its a stunning vehicle, and I would say more impressive that what the pictures can present. I would say it will do extremely well in the market when it arrives and I'm guessing it could end up being a supply problem, similar to what's happened with its corporate cousing, the Sonata. The Optima is far more agressive look over the Sonata, but thats good because the old models looked too much alike, they were not distinctive enough on its own merits.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Glad to hear it. Sometimes a car can look very good to you but still not live up to expectations. I think that's my big concern right now with the Optima having followed it so closely heh.

    A new article:

    http://blog.caranddriver.com/10best-surprise-2011-kia-optima/

    "We expected the Hyundai Sonata variants—2.0 turbo and hybrid—to be impressive, but perhaps the biggest surprise of this year’s 10Best tournament, at least for me, is the Optima, Sonata’s Kia Cousin. The Sonata, you’ll recall, has been busy proving that slick styling is definitely appropriate in the mid-size-sedan segment, a design that stands out in this conservative category. All things being pretty much equal, good looks helped to give the Sonata a winning edge in its comparison test face-off against a Honda Accord, the perennial class champ, last May.

    So it was hard to imagine that another car using the same foundations could rival the Sonata at its own game. But that’s precisely what the Kia does. The exterior may not be quite as eye-catching as the Sonata’s, but I rate it as more elegant, and in any case it certainly doesn’t fade into the background. And its interior décor wouldn’t look out of place in a car costing $10,000 more.

    Add dynamic responses that are actually a shade more athletic than the Sonata’s, plus feature content and bargain pricing, and the Optima emerges as hard to resist.

    Now for that turbo version they’ve promised us."
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    http://www.kia-newoptima.com/

    Good stuff. The wheel choices are interesting, and, it looks really good with tan interior.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited September 2010
    You know what my main concern is? This car almost seems too good to be true. It has all the bells and whistles, style, power, price, etc. etc but will it hold up over 5-7 yrs time or will it be a constant rattle, squeak, minor breaks that cause so many trips to the dealer for warranty service that it drives you nuts? Then after the bumper to bumper ends it just starts falling apart.

    I really like it but it almost seems that Hyundai-Kia has got here too fast. I'm not knocking the brand at all but it took Honda and Toyota about 20 years to get to where they were really solid and Hyundai-Kia has really only came on the last ten years. Now new engines, bodies, accessories, technology, all almost at once. Not to say it can't be done with the right organization and decision making but it's a little scary to me. I'm hoping they got it right.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Yeah I know what you mean. I'm almost considering a lease just because it's a 1st year model... however... when i try to step back and look at it rationally, it's really a series of incremental improvements that add up to a lot.

    By the time this comes out the engine and underpinnings, in the Sonata, will have been on sale in Korea for over a year. The K5 will have been around since May in Korea. The way I am looking at it it's almost a mid year production. Assuming they are adapting to any issues that pop up, which you'd think they would.

    I dont think there is a greater chance of an annoying issue in the new Optima than there is in any new model year car by a major manufacturer. I'd also say that if they're even half paying attention they'll have caught any minor issues before production in the US based on the K5 and Sonata performances.

    Then again, I'm clearly biased because I really like what I see with this car.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I hope you're right but I can see how your bias(lovin' that car) is tending to make you lean a certain way in your rational. I could take the exact opposite side and make just as much sense. Both arguments make sense. The only thing I would argue is that 1 year on new engine/drivetrain is a very short time. The turbo will have a lot less time than that in service. VW is having problems with a HPFP(high pressure fuel pump) that is blowing and causing $6k-10k rebuilds with it's TDI engine that is in it's third year. Not showing up til around 50-60k miles from what I read.

    I fully realize that the warranty is there on the Kia (which it is not on the VW), but to me time is money and I don't want to have to spend a lot of time at the dealer. I've been kind of spoiled wth my current 3 vehicles so maybe I'm oversensitive in this area.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    I'm pretty spoiled too and I own a 2001 VW Jetta. If cars in service 3 years are having trouble then what can you do? I've decided that unless I hear bad things in reviews or dont like it in person after a solid test drive, I'm not going to let the 1st year thing factor in very much. If there is another car out there I like nearly as much that's a different story of course.

    I can live with a few flaws so long as they are fixable.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I kind of like your leasing idea. Have never leased before and in IL you have pay a ton of sales tax upfront(I believe on the whole sale price, not total of lease payments) which has turned me away from leasing. But in this case it may make sense. If the car is great and you love it, either buy it or turn it in and buy a 2014! That's food for thought.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Yeah I'd have to do the math on a lease because I've never done one before either but... it's a possibility. Like you said if I like it keep it or trade up, if not, well onward and upward.
  • Hyundai has been in the US market now for 25 years. That is likely long enough to have learned a thing or two. Plus, cars like everything else have more and more become like electronic devices with many solid state components. If it is a little scary (and it is), wait awhile. But the market is moving very fast now, faster than ever. New design techniques allow it, and the consumer market demands it. Any brand that doesn't move fast in this climate is not going to make it, longer-term.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited September 2010
    Toyota's reputation didn't help owners avoid problems in the recent past, did it?

    Here's something that gives you an idea how obsessed Hyundai/Kia is with quality. Recently Kia recalled 100,000 cars worldwide (35k in the US) for wiring problems. Nothing too special there, recalls happen all the time. The response was unusual, though: Kia's CEO resigned because of it, taking responsibility for the gaffe in quality.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/07/kia-ceo-chung-sungeun-res_n_706973.html-

    With that kind of focus on quality and avoiding defects, I would tend to trust Hyundai/Kia there as much if not moreso than any other automaker. Also, I have 10 total years of ownership experience with 3 Hyundais that has demonstrated to me how reliable these cars are. And two of these cars were designs from the 1990s, which are less reliable than what they are turning out now.

    But if you think you would second-guess yourself for buying a Kia, and worry about when the first defect will show up, maybe better for you to get something else. One of those perfect mid-sized sedans out there. Like a... uh... never mind.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    edited September 2010
    backy's right, Kia and Hyundai have arrived, quality-wise. You've got nothing to worry about. Every carmaker builds some duds. Someone disgruntled could leave a wrench in the works somewhere, for instance. Like what really happens at my former employer, The Boeing Company of Everett, WA. The IAM Union has some really, should I say, rugged individuals. Individuals who feel warranted to stand up and be counted in amidst all of the out-sourcing and hardball antics the planemaker throws their way. Boeing is not a nice company to work for. I know. I was laid off twice from them. But they do succeed and I have to respect them for that. Alan Mulally, current Fo-Mo-Co CEO, was the CEO of Boeing Commercial Airplanes while I was there. I am really impressed with the job he did there at Boeing's and now the job he is doing at Ford.

    My point is that there are always going to be some unforseeables with manufactured products. The reassuring thing with Kia and Hyundai and Mitsubishi is their Warranty. They will expect you to maintain your vehicle and if you do, you'll be fully completely covered in your 2011 Kia Optima.

    Do you still want that red? Red, red, I like red, red's the one that I like best. Technicolor red. Oh yeah. Keep us posted man, you're desiring a very, very well-built and fine car in the 2011 Kia Optima.

    image

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • kaliforniakkaliforniak Member Posts: 51
    My favorite part of that site is the background music LOL

    I will check out the Optima Turbo when I'm ready to buy a car next January. I hope they will be available for test drives by then. It'll be interesting to see how it stacks up against it's German 2.0T competitors in the Regal and CC.

    Speaking of which, there ought to be a 4cyl turbo sedan comparison. The Sonata, Optima, Regal, CC, Legacy and perhaps the S60 T5.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    is a German competitor? Am I missing something here?

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Yeah the Buick Regal is a rebadged Opel Insignia, a German car. It's also made in Germany currently as far as I remember. Due to be moved to Canada shortly.

    But yes I'm still fully planning to get a Red Optima SX just like the one pictured, assuming I like it in person of course. Probably different rims though, we'll see. I'm not so much nervous about Kia, it's just the first year thing. Honestly, I know it's a bit paranoid though.

    I wish it would just come out already!
  • conwelpicconwelpic Member Posts: 600
    edited September 2010
    according to Kia Motors America Facebook page:

    The PR team is launching the all-new 2011 Kia Optima this week in Southern Cal and welcomes our journalists. We'll keep you posted with the news and reviews.

    new details on the Kia US website introducing the new Optima
    http://www.kia.com/#/2011optima
  • bokonon3bokonon3 Member Posts: 20
    Hmmm. You want rattles, squeeks and minor breaks? That sounds like my Generation 7 Honda Accord. The car's drivetrain shows all the benefits of those years and years of Honda's engineering equity. The rest of the car shows the effects of Honda's continual and aggressive decontenting. Toyota did the same sort of decontenting with the current Camry.

    I also own a 2007 Hyundai Santa Fe - an early production model of the current design. It has been solid and dependable, and a great car all the way around. The build quality is good, although the fit and finish and paint quality on later models is marginally better. The Santa Fe is generally holding up as well as my Honda. Maybe better.

    The only glitch with the Hyundai has been an issue with the passenger side airbag sensor, and Hyundai has been responsive about fixing it under warranty. Hyundai also updated the vanity light cluster to a later, improved design that they introduced in 2008 onward. Hyundai offered that upgrade as an option, for no charge - which I thought was pretty darned thoughtful.

    Granted ... there are reports on the Edmunds boards of some production glitches with the new Kia Sorrento (plus a general scarcity of parts, since it is a new model). I would check out those boards and see the discussions. And I would always avoid getting one of the first models of a totally new design - just because (even though that's exactly what I did with my Hyundai Santa Fe).
  • conwelpicconwelpic Member Posts: 600
    you can print off the full model breakdown and specs for the new Optima. However, prices are not available yet, but should be shortly.

    http://www.kiamedia.com/secure/optima2011_specs.html

    and on the same page you can then print out the features and options

    the base 2.4L will have 200hp and 186 lbs of torque
    the 2.0L turbo will have 274 hp and 269 lbs of torque
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    I know I'm a broken record but... I'd love an update on if/when UVO will be available in the Optima. Anyone know if the Nav is voice activated by the way?
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Should be getting a ton more concrete info soon I guess now. Link has full release and here is a link to another shot of it in sexy red:

    http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l32/Dashel2/RedSXnew.jpg

    http://multivu.prnewswire.com/mnr/kia/41954/

    "RVINE, Calif., Sept. 21, 2010 /PRNewswire/ — Kia Motors America (KMA) today officially launched the all-new 2011 Optima midsize sedan, first seen during the 2010 New York International Auto Show. Set to arrive in retail showrooms in early fall, the next generation Optima continues Kia’s design-led transformation while revealing a completely new and stunning design language for Kia, highlighted by a dynamic and streamlined profile that conveys elegance and athletic confidence from every angle. Optima’s groundbreaking spirit continues under the hood and inside the cabin with the introduction of three new powertrains – including the brand’s first-ever hybrid in the U.S. (available in 2011) – which is expected to deliver an increase in power and fuel economy while offering the latest technology features and luxury amenities."
  • csandstecsandste Member Posts: 1,866
    edited September 2010
    Agree with just about everything you've said. I'm not sure, however, if the problems with the Sorento are the Georgia factory ramping up rather than new model faults. I don't follow the Santa Fe and Sorrento very closely but aren't they supposed to be built at the same new plant in the future? It would be interesting to see what happens with a new plant and an older vehicle.

    To KiaHyundais, I've bought two new models: an 01 Elantra that gave me no trouble, and an 07 (early, probably 6 months after 06.5 introduction) Optima that has also been flawless. That's my wife's car and it's not driven very much, I prefer my 05 Malibu Maxx, but GM has been much worse in new car problems than the Hyundai or Kias.
  • kaliforniakkaliforniak Member Posts: 51
    I see that the Turbo and NA transmissions are geared differently in the lower gears. What does it mean to the driver? I have no knowledge of how different gear ratios work. I hope somebody can explains this. Thanks.
  • jlindhjlindh Member Posts: 282
    A higher number for first gear means more rpms to go, lets say, 10mph. A higher number would be more of a "granny gear" if you know what that means. It would also be good for "pulling stumps". A lower numbered first gear moves all the 6 ratios closer together. It gives you a "close ratio" gearbox. This is better for maximum performance as the driver can select a gear resulting in being closer to the rpms required for maximum engine performance.

    I suspect that if you don't know what it means, it won't matter to you.
  • conwelpicconwelpic Member Posts: 600
    this time a Optima with different rims and a tan interior.

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  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    #1. Love those rims!

    #2. This interior looks so much classier than the tan interior in the Sonata. Why? Somewhat the actual dash layout but mainly because it doesn't have that ugly two-tone steering wheel! If the colors in this picture are true, it is also a better blend of color rather than a contrast.
  • dash5dash5 Member Posts: 421
    Wow that interior looks great. I wonder how it will look in the two tone of the SX. According to the kia site those rims are the 17"s so that car is probably an EX.

    http://www.kia-newoptima.com/

    If you go to Style > Exterior and click on the wheels you can see all the options. I like the 18" luxury one I think even though it's very similar to the other one.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Agreed, I like it much better than the tan on the Sonata. The plastic is less orange-colored than in the Sonata, and the colors just blend together better. Also the door panels look richer--they seem to have a big patch of fabric on them.
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