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Comments
- In its 1st model year, the outgoing Honda Odyssey had 5 RECALLS; I guess that made the Odyssey (widely considered the best minivan) "junk."
"I dodged a bullet then and it appears this time as well. Kia and hyundai are STILL junk after another decade."
- Funny, Hyundai has been rated (for years) by both Consumer Reports and JD Power to have better reliability than Nissan, Mazda or Subaru; I guess that makes those Japanese brands "junk" (not even including Mitsu or Suzuki), and AutoBild of Germany, which does the most comprehensive analysis of reliability in the industry, rates Hyundai no. 1.
- Sure they do. Back during the 1960s/70s, Toyotas, Datsuns and Hondas were widely looked down upon as cheap, Japanese rust-prone tin cans.
And uh, the reason why one doesn't see nearly as many older Hyundais (or Kias for that matter) - going back 2 generations, is b/c they sold only a fraction of what Toyota sold, so there weren't that many on the road to begin with.
I can't recall the last the time I saw an older Lexus GS (much less a new one) or SC; which mostly has to do w/ the small amount that were sold (relatively).
- And yet, according to a JD Power CSI study (which covers service/repair work during the 1st 3 years of ownership), Hyundai is rated above average and tied w/ Ford.
Hyundai's CSI rating is above that for Honda, Scion, Mitsu, Toyota, Subaru, Nissan, Mazda and Suzuki.
Kia's CSI rating is just below Honda's and above all the other Japanese nameplates.
http://businesscenter.jdpower.com/news/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2010021
"I'm a former ASE certified tech and have a degree in the automotive field. I can feel a cheaply made drive train when I drive one. And that is how I'd describe kia/hyundai. Also toyota's new camry's transmission doesn't feel right either. I just don't get the need for 6 speed transmissions on ANY car."
- For someone who purportedly was an ASE certified tech, you don't seem to know much about transmissions.
1st off, the Hyundai/Kia 6 spd AT has been roundly praised by the automotive press for its smoothness.
Also, transmissions w/ 6 or more spds allow for increased fuel efficiency and when tuned properly can be quite quick in its shifts.
Sorry, but your posts have a certain stink about them.
Maybe snow just likes being a contrarian. If 1000 people say they like something, maybe its fun being the 1 person telling everyone else they are wrong. Whatever floats one's boat I suppose.
I've never owned a Kia, Hyundai, or Toyota. I'd also never say I wouldn't ever buy one. That's just ignorance.
The Optima is well received at the very start and I hope it remains so this year. Maybe it will be my first Kia.
So if I post that I haven't test driven an Optima that means I'm locked into that for life??? Wow. That's special. I test drove one a week or two after that post. I guess I should have gotten your permission or informed you that I had?
Just so you know, I love my camry. But it was built in Japan by Japaneese people. I doubt I'll ever buy another car made by american hands. Sad to say since I served this country proudly. I am no longer as proud. So, Ford? No thanks. Too scared of unions and crack heads.
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Uh... My 01 camry has a 4 speed transmission and the car is 10 years old. It weighs the same as this car and gets the same gas mileage 10 years after it was built. Try again?
That is pretty good considering the Kia has 64 more horsepower, is 2 inches longer, 2 inches wider, and weighs 180 pounds more. It has 5.5 cubic feet more interior room and 1.3 cubic feet more cargo space.
You tried again and failed. Next.
I love my Optima and paid 24,000 for an EX with the Premium pkg.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/01/26/video-gm-dares-to-compare-chevy-cruze-to-the-- old-hyundai-ela/... :sick:
My 4cyl gets what it gets. Toyota has always been conservative on its estimates. Hyundai/Kia over estimates everything including their warranty. Why doesn't Kia have heated control knobs for it's window, raidos etc, etc. They're slippin'. People need these things to get from point A to point B.
And why don't they have a cooled trunk so people can store lots of beer? Where are the dvd players in the headrests? It's sad that people can't get the necessities they need in a car these days. And they call themselves a car company...
The dealership was closed but an EX model was unlocked so I had the chance to sit in it and also marvel at the huge truck. Doors close with a solid "thud" of quality. I have to drive this car soon. Light-years better looking the new Sonata and smaller than I expected in person (which is good for me). The Sonata has a slightly bloated appearance that turns me off but this car is the real deal.
All Kias have that... actually, all cars have that feature, where I live, about six months out of the year. Today for example my trunk is a crisp 10 F. And this is done w/o using any technology, electrical power, etc. Yes, Kias including the new Optima are truly amazing!
Toyota doesn't establish its EPA estimates...the EPA does. However you feel about the source, methods and real world accuracy, it is the same imperfect yardstick for all manufacturers.
No one has said that anyone needs more than the basics to get from point a to point b. That is a whole different point than the one being made here: with the Optima, you get a lot of content for the money, compared to the competition. If it is not for you, buy something else. There are a lot of really good cars out there now.
All I'm sayin is the 53 Studebaker gives me all I need, so I'm goin with that but I'm still gonna post on the Kia Optima forum to remind you all how lousy it is.
Then your Camry would get even better mileage if it had a 6-speed to keep it at the most economical RPM at any cruising speed.
What's so hard about that?
BTW, we did not think the Sonata rode as nice as the Optima EX when we test drove it. And the interior's a little more plasticky.
It's not cheap. Squeezing 200HP out of 2.4L takes money. What you mistake for "cheap" is actually just "a good value" because of a favorable exchange rate between the dollar and the South Korean won. No tricks, no shortcuts. Just good free trade.
"6 speed transmissions on ANY car. Adds complexity and they all seem to be constantly hunting gears"
They are hunting. Good fuel economy occurs just above a lug. To get reasonable performance out of it, the transmission needs to be ready to downshift whenever you add the slightest bit of throttle -- sometimes as many as three gears down.
But it's funny you should mention soundproofing. I have an appointment to get my Optima soundproofed in about two weeks. I'm figuring on adding over 100lbs.
It'll be interesting to see how much difference it makes. Seems like the biggest offenders may be the tires and the wheel wells. But I think lining the floor pan and the doors will hush it some. And I'm having a coating sprayed on the metal behind the fender liners.
Uvo looks great and I'm glad that it isn't bundled with nav, yet still gives you the backup camera screen. I would rather use an iPhone or Android for navigation anyway instead of paying $200+ per year to update stale map and business information only once a year. With a smart phone, you get much more current info when you want to look up an address. With Android phones it's all free with Google Maps as long as you are in the coverage area. You can also buy navigation software for the phones that store local maps if you want. All the car would need is a convenient place to mount the phones.
If you get the UVO system, do you also keep the higher end Infinity sound system or is that a completely different radio?
I also hope they are as good as Ford is about providing software updates to previous buyers to fix bugs and also add new features on existing cars.
Is it as loud or louder at highway speeds and during acceleration as a new Accord?
Other than noise, other concerns will be crash test results which I think will probably be fine and air conditioner performance that might be unacceptable since there are reviews of the 2011 Sonata that say the A/C cannot keep up with truly hot summer weather (100+ degrees).
Please let us know how that works out for you. What does that cost? And yes, road noise a la Honda is one of the reasons I've shied away from Hyundai products. Chevrolet has acknowledged the Cruze has 200 pounds of sound deadening materials in it (that's a big weight penalty) and it does work. This is far from rocket science and Hyundai/Kia will do something similar IF they want to. I'm hoping they go at least somewhat in that direction.
W/little over 1K miles I took a two lane cruise from central Arkansas north and west for 125 mile loop. 55 to 65, eco button on and cruise set. first time the trip puter showed 34 average and the second time was 34.3 average. At 65 6th would bring 1750 rpm and w/TS all the torque. When the roads become too twisty too often,Scenic HWY 7, I backed off to 55 MPH 1500 RPM.
In ECO mode the tranny holds speed a little longer before upshifts. Pulling moderate inclines, 6th @ 1500 rpm, downshifting to fifth @ just under 2K.
I'm not knocking the 2.4 @ 198-200 hp. I was driving a 99 Buick Park Avenue w/200 HP V-6 and 4 sp auto.
My Sonata has the left pull/drift phenomenon, the passenger seat is manual and sits low, especially for folks around 5' and the car though rated as large is not as quiet as other models. You can't have everything.
http://www.hyundainews.com/Auto_Show_News/New_York_Auto_Show/2011_Sonata_2.0T/Pr- ess_Release.asp
The TS makes more HP than the completion's V-6 and better gas mileage. It isn't a hot rod, surely not a stoplight racer, but it's impressive if you're already moving 25-30 MPH. The full, 17.4 lb, boost is limited to 4th, 5th & 6th gear and any punch from 50 MPH and up is really impressive.
Running 70-80 and dropping the pedal will have you @ 120 in short order. Top speed is claimed 153 MPH govorner limited. Playing w/turbo, more than a couple wide open passes within 100 miles, running 80 mph on open road and winding out the gears will put you at 26 MPG.
The Kia is getting the same 2.0 direct injected, dual overhead cams w/variable valve timing, TS turbo, that runs on regular gas for 274 HP/269-lb-ft {full torque from 1800-4500 RPM}
and 6 spd auto.
The 2.0T pulls w/elegance that befits gobs of torque on the low end. I like to refer to it as Lexusesque. Yeah, it's a stretch, but I'm a glass is half full kinda guy and the twin scroll really shines.
I wifh they'd do the same to the 2.4 and drop it into the Genesis coupe for around 320hp.
Good luck.
Enjoy the Kia or whatever ride you decide upon...
As for acceleration, the motor's actually rather quiet for a 4-banger. You can hear some droning in traffic, but it's virtually silent in cruise, no doubt due to the six speed, which keeps the engine at 1300-1500 RPM unless you're going over 60mph. What can be heard is actually a pleasant sounding exhaust note if you're manually winding it up to 5K or more.
If you cruise up a hill or accelerate gently you can hear the engine bog a little, but it's generally quieter than the road noise. And anything you do hear from the engine is somewhat "distant" sounding, compared to other four-banger sedans I've had.
"The UVO system is not available yet and Kia is unable to give us a definite date on its release. The Turbo should begin arriving at our dealership by the end of March or the beginning of April"
Then from the sales manager:
"Currently they have not hit the port from China; I have allocation an orders pending their arrival. I will keep you posted as to the disposition as soon as we get it. I understand they are shooting for Mid February arrival.
The UVO option is also late intro – we are hoping they are saving it for the Turbo release."
So as early as Feb, as late as Apr. To be safe I'd guess June hehe. I do like the look of the biege leather on the EX better, still trying to decide if the turbo is something I really want. Uhg descisions.
About a dozen years ago I had a chip in my 99 Audi A6 windshield. I submitted an insurance claim for a 'real' Audi windshield and it was over $1k...think closer to 1,200...
Speaking of Audi and KIA...Peter Schreyer, KIA's lead designer, used to work for Audi...
This guy says the 2011 Honda Accords are quieter with less road and engine noise, but he has nothing to back it up. Could have just made that up or the improvement could be so small no one can tell anyway. I would hope it's true though. I haven't seen a review of 2011 that mentions it being any less noisy than it ever was.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZZoAYrjwEg&
http://www.insideline.com/kia/optima/2011/2011-hyundai-sonata-vs-2011-kia-optima- -comparison-test.html
Sound level @ idle (dB) 36.8
@ Full throttle (dB) 78.5
@ 70 mph cruise (dB) 64.6
and the 2010 Accord LX:
http://www.insideline.com/hyundai/sonata/2011/2011-hyundai-sonata-gls-vs-2010-ho- nda-accord-vs-2010-mazda-6-i-touring-comparison-test.html
Sound level @ idle (dB) 41.9
@ Full throttle (dB) 76.5
@ 70 mph cruise (dB) 67.4
and 2011 SE:
http://www.insideline.com/honda/accord/2011/2011-honda-accord-se-full-test.html
Sound level @ idle (dB) 44.4
@ Full throttle (dB) 70.2
@ 70 mph cruise (dB) 63.0
There are tests that show Accords with lower sound readings than a Malibu or Camry, but driving them back to back, I don't think anyone would agree with saying the those cars sound louder on the road than an Accord.
Despite what looks like low numbers on the 2011 Accord SE, the Edmunds road test still says:
"A lack of insulation contributes to its lightness and adds the usual Honda road noise."
The Optima has higher recorded noise numbers than the 2011 Accord SE.
I'll have to ride in one and check the noise and seating comfort myself. I wish the new Optima was on car rental lots so I could drive one for hours without dealing with any sales people.
Now obviously not all dealers will get turbos as quickly but still. It frustrates me the uselessness of sales people.
Anyway, I'll just keep hoping some turbo's trickle through to the midwest/south!