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Jeep Wrangler

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Comments

  • drosketerdrosketer Member Posts: 203
    That's a huge milestone. Congrats, and keep your guard up!

    Andrew
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    It's almost the weekend and I hope that everyone has a safe and fun 4th of July weekend.
  • tjmuddertjmudder Member Posts: 9
    I'm strongly considering a powertrax no-slip locker for the rear axle of my 02 TJ. The reviews I've read claim they are much quieter and less noticeable than lock-right's or Detroit's, and ARB's are just too expensive. Has anyone had any experience with these?

    My Jeep is my daily driver, but I also do some pretty serious trail riding. I understand how lockers effect road driving in turns, etc., but how tough are they to get used to in icy/snowy Wisconsin type winters? Any info on road drivability would be much appreciated.

    Glen

    Glen
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Since I live in KY, I get very little opportunity to play in snow. I do get on muddy hillsides, though, and I can tell you that a locker sure makes things "interesting." When BOTH wheels spin, as they will with a locker, there is nothing to anchor the Jeep, and it will go to the downhill side.

    There is such a thing as lateral traction, and with an open diff, the tire that is NOT spinning serves as lateral traction, keeping the back end (front end, if front is locked too) from slipping sideways.

    I would be very, very careful driving a Jeep with a full time locker on snow covered or icy roads. Not saying it can't be done, just saying that extra caution would be needed, especially in cornering. That back end will break loose much easier when locked.

    I have a Detroit Soft Locker in the back of Thelma Jane, and I can tell you that it is really smooth. The highway manners are not bad at all, and with just a little bit of adjustment in driving style (mainly, staying off the gas a little longer coming out of a corner), you hardly know it's back there.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • aparentaparent Member Posts: 5
    Thanks everyone for the input. Your all right I shouldn't need more power. When I am on road I have alot of freeway driving and the exceleration is a bit timid. I have given it alot of thought and I really don't need more power. Everytime I talk about building up my rubicon everyone say K&N etc. You are all real jeepers and make alot of sense. Thank alot.

    Happy 4th
    Al
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Are you gonna offroad that Rubi? You have an awesome offroad machine there.

    I'm not one of those people who think anyone that has a Jeep and doesn't offroad it is a "poser." I had my Jeep for fourteen months before going offroad for the first time. I thought that my Jeep was the most fun vehicle I had ever owne BY FAR, even before going offroad.

    I was just curious if you are gonna offroad it or not. Where do you live, Al? If it isn't too awful far for you to drive, you could come to Turkey Bay and wheel with me sometime.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    I think Al said something about going to Camp Jeep in August, so I would think he is more in my direction than yours.

    If you are somewhere around SoCal and want to try out a bit of easy wheeling risk-free (I know what it is like to have a brand new vehicle and wanting to play a bit but don't want to ding it just yet) then there are many wonderful national forest dirt roads where you can get a taste of off-roading but not have to worry about getting in over your head. Of course, there are the ones that you don't try alone, too. And you get to visit some awesome scenery along the way - what more can you ask for? There are lots of guide books on both SoCal and NorCal that will tell you the difference.
  • eaglemamaeaglemama Member Posts: 1
    We hav a 2003, Jeep Wrangler and want to take the full doors off. The question is how do you keep the light from staying on, on the speaker bar?
    Thanks,
    Eaglemama
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Behind the glove box is a fuse panel. Pull the #4 fuse, which is the bottom fuse in the right hand column of fuses.

    Be prepared for quite a bit of weight when you lift those doors off! They weigh MUCH more than you would think. Those exposed threads will do a real job on your paint, if you let them come in contact.

    You need a 13 MM wrench for the door hinge nuts. I recommend boxed end, so there's less chance of the wrench slipping and scratching the paint.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Don't forget the simple little step of sliding the door strap off of the post before you begin lifting the door. It could cause the door to hang up as you remove it and allow the threads on the hinges to hit the paint.

    It's such a simple step, it can easily be overlooked.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • gretagreta Member Posts: 23
    Greetings everyone! I just learned that if you hold down the Odometer/Tripometer button while turning the Ignition Key just to the Run Position (Not fully to Start,) you get some sort of "Dash Board Computer, Diagnostic "Self Check." Mine starts by writing out in the Odometer box something like "S of 4.0," then "No Faults," then begins to activate all the gauges on the dash, one at a time, 'till it seems to complete it's self test. Is there a 2004 CODE List for all the potential problems that the computer could write out, if it senses that something is actually wrong? It's interesting that it doesn't seem to care that I still have a slight "Pinging Sound" when using the Lower 87 Octane fuel, which really bothers me, even though I know I'm operating this '04, 5 speed Sahara very well, through the various gear shifts. Thanks for any insight you guys might have. Greta
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    Well my doors are finally off! To keep the paint from getting messed up on the nut or the paint, I put some box tape around the nut and used a crescent wrench. As soon as the nut was loose, I used my hand to loosen and remove them. No paint problems.

    Sure is fun with the doors off! :) Plus it is easier to see what your tires are running over when offroading (to make sure you are getting the right line).

    -Paul
  • drosketerdrosketer Member Posts: 203
    Definitely cool running with the doors off. Not sure what kind of terrain you're in Paul, but if it's in a treed area, take care not to get whacked by branches that might get snagged on the body somewhere -- seen that happen, helps if you're wearing glasses! Or, as I found out in the case of mud, that it doesn't cover the inside of your ride as well as the outside... :-p

    Andrew
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    so most of what I have around is urban jungle or desert trails. Just gotta watch out for the brush that is SO dry...

    There are some tree lined areas, but they are far enough apart.

    I found out about the trees with a vengeance at Turkey Bay with Tom. I got popped a couple of times, but fortunately, nothing serious.

    -Paul
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    What are they? I'm so tired of brown and dusty sage brush that I think mud and green trees are a figment of someone's imagination. I sure would like a snowstorm about now - or even some rain. The weather hasn't been all that hot in SoCal, but it sure is dry, and that's going to make for a long summer. Hope the fire hazard doesn't close the national forests for off-roading - that's been done more than once recently.
  • gretagreta Member Posts: 23
    Greetings; I 'm just wondering; as I had the Oil changed in the Wrangler yesterday, "How much does it matter if the Oil line shows that it is filled about 3/4" over the top mark of the Dip Stick? The Manual says it can cause Engine Damage? Thanks, Greta
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    If I remember correctly, you have the 4.0 L engine. It takes six quarts of oil to fill the crankcase when the oil filter is also changed. (I can't imagine why anyone would change the oil and not change the filter at the same time.)

    I just had my oil changed, and I brought my own oil and filter with me. I had a five quart container of Mobil 1 and a one quart bottle. I personally stood there and watched the oil being changed (That's the ONLY way I will let someone else change my oil... if they let me watch.).

    So, I know for a fact that the proper amount of oil was added, six quarts.

    I just went out and checked the dipstick, and it shows the oil level to be about 3/8" above the "safe" mark. My dipstick has a mark for "add one quart" and another one that says "safe."

    There will be variation in where the oil level will show on the stick from vehicle to vehicle, and there will even be some variation on the same vehicle with different oil filters. Different types of oil filters will vary by a little bit in the amount of oil they hold.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • twylietwylie Member Posts: 619
    I just changed my oil and filter last weekend and found it to hold a little over 5.5 quarts with a new filter. On occasion I have used the larger Ford Filter (Fram** PH8 equiv) when I haven't had a spare Jeep filter. With the larger filter, tha capacity goes to right at 6 quarts when checked after the Jeep has been sitting. I usually put about a half a quart less than it calls for and then check/top off after I start the engine and let it drain back down. Another of life's little mysteries I guess.

    -twylie

    ** I'd never recommend the use of a Fram filter, it's just what I know the part number for on my Explorer. After reading Bob the Oil Guy's analysis and measurements on filters, I've been staying away from Fram.
  • guy21guy21 Member Posts: 129
    The greatest risk of over filling one's oil is that of crankshaft seal damage or leakage. More oil sloshing around higher in the crankcase. The seals are not designed for submersion in oil. Only to keep oil spray and mist in, dirt out. At 3/4" over the dipstick mark you may be 1 quart over full. Not as bad as 2 quarts over full. If you live or work near the place that changed the oil, ask them to drain it down to the correct level. If not practical to go back, keep an eye out for any signs of leakage.
  • wheelsdownwheelsdown Member Posts: 250
    Glad to hear I'm not the only one with oil level concerns. I agree with twylie. I know the dipsticks vary. I just do not like mine to show over full. No matter who changes my oil and filter (including the Dealer), my stick shows 1/2 to 3/4 qt over full. Seems the new oil is not hot and takes a while to run down after they start the engine to fill the filter, so they top it off. I have learned to tell them to put in 5 1/2 quarts and leave it 1/2 quart low on the stick. After I drive it home and let it drain down a few minutes, it is right on full. May not make much difference to the engine, but it makes me feel better.

    Terry
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    that's what I always have them put in. I bring my own oil to the party, and I always bring six quarts.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • jptjjptj Member Posts: 53
    On the way to work today, Eugene (98 TJ) rolled over 170K
    Life is good
    Walt
  • davesbrewdavesbrew Member Posts: 45
    Hey all, I've been wanting a wrangler for quite a while, but waiting on my 94 altima with 170k to die first. Well, my needs recently changed. My wife's pregnant with our first, and I'm thinking more about the Unlimited. Anyone have experience with that with a family? I'm wondering how tough it is to reach into the back and stow the carseat and whether there's enough room behind the back seat for typical kid stuff- stroller/ pack and play, etc.

    Also, I just posted some info on the 07 wrangler in the 06 wrangler replacement message thread.

    By the way, I've been reading this board on and off for about a year and a half now and am very impressed with the community.

    -dave
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    Anyone know a good way to sort of clean up my fender flares? They're almost white from UV bleaching. Is this "Forever Black" stuff in the catalogs the ticket? Keep in mind I'm fairly cheap and lazy, at least on this issue.
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    A Wrangler is good for a lot of things, but I think you'd be crazy to put a newborn in it. Not the safest car by a longshot, ear-bleeding loud and even with the unlimited there's nowhere near enough room for all the baby junk that you'll be lugging around. As a second car, maybe, but I think you'll be sticking to sedans and wagons for the Nissan replacement.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    DO NOT USE IT! I got some for my flares and it looked like somebody painted the flares - UGH!

    I got some replacement OEM fenders from 4wd dot com for about 130 or so. Took about 2 hours to install, taking my time. I am MUCH happier than having used forever black.

    I've heard you could used other cleaners or black magic or stuff like that... no luck.

    -Paul
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    with a newborn, maybe take a look at the Liberty or the Grand Cherokee.

    -Paul
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Welcome! Glad you finally posted after being a "silent partner" for so long.

    Congrats on your soon becoming a Pappa!

    Are you going to have another car to drive for family use? Can you keep the car you have now and just buy an Unlimited with no trade-in?

    I know you guys would have a blast with a SWB Jeep, so if you have something else for transportation to go along with the Jeep, then go for it!

    IT IS A SHAME THAT THEY KILLED THE XJ! You would be the perfect candidate for one of those puppies! They wheel like demons and still have plenty of passenger and cargo room. Maybe you should find yourself a used one????

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    Dave,

    My daughter is a teenager now, but I remember when she was a baby, like it was yesterday. I had to sell my MINT 65 Ford Galaxy when she was born. My wife did not like to drive it and it did not have seatbelts for the rear seat. The truth is…sometimes you have to make sacrifices. I miss the car but I have no regrets.

    I agree with the advice given. The Wrangler is not a good vehicle for babies unless you have another car to carry the baby in. You will grow to hate the Wrangler if it’s your primary car. Taking a baby in and out of the car and carrying all the stuff a baby seems to need is hard enough with four doors and a trunk.

    I was looking at the Liberty at the dealer a while back (I was getting an oil change). I really thing they are a nice vehicle. My Pastor’s (Art) wife (Karen) bought a 2004 Liberty and they love it. Art wanted to get a 4X4 liberty but Karen liked the ride of the 2X4. Art went with 2X4 because he has a CJ-7 he takes off roading.

    My suggestion is: Buy a liberty 4X4. They are capable off road, they are reasonably priced, and have what you need to carry a baby around. With that said…If you have another vehicle to haul (transport) the baby in get the Wrangler; it’s the most fun I have had driving, and I have only been able to take it out on some dirt roads around here.

    Oh…congratulations on being a father to be. Being a parent is the most rewarding work you will have in your life. Remember…they will appear to stray when they near there teens, but they are only trying to find themselves. Just remember they will come back to the values you raised them with. Fortunately, my daughter has been relatively easy on us during her finding herself phase.

    Glen
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I guess it depends on your point of reference, but I wouldn't consider a Liberty as being "capable off road." They can slap "Trail Rated" stickers all over them, but they will not BEGIN to go the places that a Wrangler will go. That stupid IFS kills the Liberty for off roading.

    The Liberty may be a fine little rig for highway driving or for the mildest form of off roading, but that's as far as I will go.

    Hey, your preacher has a CJ-7? COOL! Does he wheel it?

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    OK - all you fathers and mothers can tell me I'm wrong - I don't have kids - but it seemed to me that the problem with the Unlimited would not be space. I was really impressed with how much extra room there is in the Unlimited, and I think that part of it could be done.

    BUT (you knew there was a "but" coming, didn't you?) I think the biggest problem with using an Unlimited for a baby would be the back seat. When I looked at the Unlimited, I noticed that they have put a proper lever to release the front seat. It is definitely easier to get it to go forward than on my '98 Sport. But the doors aren't any bigger and they didn't move the front seats forward any, so getting in and out of the back seat is not easy. Trying to put a baby seat in and out of the back seat would put a huge amount of stress on your back (a subject of great interest to me since I've now got osteoarthritis in mine). I would think it could do serious damage if the Unlimited were the only vehicle. It would probably be OK for the weekend trips, but not every day. I'd wait until the kids are older and can get in and out of a car on their own. Then they can enjoy the Unlimited with you!
  • dwrestledwrestle Member Posts: 72
    it's bigger, you can get a 93 to 98 model with a V8 for pretty cheap in my area(Missouri). It's ridiculous how much used Wranglers are selling for in my area a 1987 with a 4.2 is like $7000 and all it's had done to it is a lift and bigger tires. You can get a luxurious Grand Cherokee with a V8 for like $4000, a much better deal. Cherokees aren't even as cheap as Grand Cherokee's anymore.
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    I just love the idea of having a 4WD thats also a convertible, I swore 20 years ago after buying my first 4 WD that I would always have one.

    I have a few questions never having owned a jeep.

    How easy is the hard top to switch out? Should I think about getting both a hard top and soft top or just a bikini top? I live in Illinois, it gets cold here!

    Mileage? how accurate is the 16 / 19 on the sticker??

    The back seats?? Are passengers comfortable / tolerant of the space available??

    Jeff

    I didn't hug the girl I drove today, but did take a good look at her rear end and headlights.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    I have never test driven an Unlimited. I think they would be ideal for a lot of people, since they have the extra room compared to the shorter wheel base models.

    I can tell you that taking the hardtop off without a hoist is a two person job, and that's with the shorter top! That longer top for an Unlimited must be a good bit heavier.

    I have the hard top only and it works out pretty well for me, since my Jeep is NOT my daily driver. I can take the top and doors off and leave them off pretty much all summer.
    I can leave Thelma Jane in the garage when it is raining.

    I would DEFINITELY have to have a soft top, if I depended on Thelma Jane for daily driving.

    You haven't lived until you have driven around in a topless/doorless Jeep! Yeeeeeeeeeehawwwwwwww!!!

    You might want to consider the dual tops, Jeff. If you EVER want a hard top, there will NEVER be a time that you can get a factory quality hard top cheaper than when you buy the Jeep and get the dual top option.

    Keep us posted on how this goes, Jeff! Post pics when you take delivery! Come on down to KY and wheel that puppy with me at Turkey Bay.

    This is exciting! :)

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • jacknimblejacknimble Member Posts: 171
    I agree with tsjay on the tops: get dual if you can.

    I normally use the hard-top, and lift with a hoist. But, If I go out of town, it is nice to switch over to the softop so I can go topless at my destination.

    On a daily basis, I think removing the hardtop (if you have a hoist and electric drill or screwdriver) is easier than putting the softop up and down. I can get my hardtop off and on in just over 5 minutes.

    Glad I got both, and the new softops are as quiet as the hardtop.

    If you keep your Jeep for a long time, you will always have a back-up top.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Oh Baby! I checked your profile and saw that you are from Quincy. Did you know there is a great place to play with your new Jeep just south of you about 25 miles (guessing from the way it looks on the map) in Rockport?

    I have yet to make it up there, but people say that Rockport Off Road Park is a great place to wheel a Jeep.

    Get your Jeep and I'll meet you up there sometime. You can have the place already scouted out and be the trail guide when I get up there.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • jeff62301jeff62301 Member Posts: 310
    I've been past it many times but never pulled in to see it.

    One of my friends has been there, had a great time, he was the only one there that day and was grateful to have some advice from one of the owners on how to get though some tough spots.
  • gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    Tom,

    I never said they were as capable…just capable. I have read a few postings other places that have talked about how they have modified them and use them off road. One of the posting I read talked about how the owner modified a Liberty with feathers similar to a Rubi. Still would not be my first choice for off roading.

    Yes my pastor does 4 wheeling. He has a 4” lift and I think 35” tires. He has rolled it around a dozen times he said, and it still looks good. It has a lot of character. I’m not sure my EllieMae would look as good if I rolled her even once.

    Glen
  • gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    Mtgal,

    Believe me, getting a baby out of a vehicle with 4 doors is hard on your back. A 2 door is worse. It is hard enough for a person to get in to the back seat of a Wrangler, then Add toys, stroller, and dipper bag (this is just for a day trip) and you may curse at the mere sight of a Wrangler. Even a 2 door car would be a little easier to transport a baby in. BUT, with all this said; if you are dedicated (to Wranglers) and know what you are getting into when you have a baby and a Wrangler, you MAY be alright with the killing your back park of it. I would personally go with a new 4 door Liberty or used 4 door Cherokee instead (had a two door, that I traded when I had a baby, and loved it). I would even consider a new Grand Cherokee and one that is a couple of years old. I would not purchase an older Grand Cherokee due to the reported problems they seem to have.

    Glen
  • gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    I have the dual top option and think it is the best way to go.

    I have found getting the hard top on and off with a (manual) hoist much easier then putting up and down the soft top. So I use the hard top if I stay in town (I have had mine off for the last month), and the soft top if I travel out of town. That way you can go topless if you want to, and have a top if you need it. Buy one of those bags that you can roll your windows up in and place on top of the top after it is folded down.

    Glen
  • gman1259gman1259 Member Posts: 209
    I meant features...not feathers
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    You have one cool preacher! Tell him hello from a fellow off road enthusiast.

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    You say your preacher's Jeep has rolled a dozen times? Does that mean it's a Holy Roller? :)

    Tom

    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • mcrrtmcrrt Member Posts: 93
    Jeff,

    I'm a first time Jeep owner myself. I have a soft top Unlimited, and like you, live in a cold winter climate (Michigan). If you get a Jeep, I encourage you to try a winter with the soft top only. So far I haven't had trouble cooling the interior with the AC when needed, and Wranglers are known to have killer heaters, so I'm betting there won't be a problem with heat in the winter. Mileage-wise, I've gotten as low as 14, and as high as almost 19. A friend who has a "short" TJ with the I6 and 5sp averages 16 overall, so apparently the extra 200 pounds of the Unlimited doesn't affect the mileage much. Back seats aren't bad for space or comfort (you get 2 extra inches of leg room in the Unlimited), but access is difficult. Good luck with your decision!

                                                   Marcus
  • mcrrtmcrrt Member Posts: 93
    Dave,

    I own an Unlimited, and have 7 month old twin boys. I think the Unlimited is more useful as a "back-up" family vehicle than a short wheelbase Wrangler, but I wouldn't recommend it as a primary family car. Our main family vehicle is an extended length Venture, so the Jeep only needed to be practical enough for a couple days use in a pinch. That said, I primarily picked the Unlimited because the extra wheelbase makes it feel a little more stable on the freeway, and the extra space will make it a little more practical for hauling things when needed. There IS more space in the backseat vs. a short Wrangler, but access is pretty difficult...I wouldn't want to have to keep craning back there every day to hoist babies in and out. Experiment yourself: Tip one of the front seats forward, and try to gently place a 15lb bag of dog food or something in the back seat. Pretend the bag is squirming. Now try to imagine trying reach back there, maintain your balance, and secure the bag in a car seat with a 4 point restraint. Imagine doing this several times a day...for the next few years. I love my Jeep to death, but I'd never get one as a baby hauler. Maybe in a few years when your child is big enough to clamber into the back unassisted...until then, I highly recommend a van of some sort. Good luck with your decision!

                                          Marcus
  • mtngalmtngal Member Posts: 1,911
    Jeff - I have a Tacoma along with my Wrangler. The seats in my '98 Wrangler Sport are far more comfortable than those in the Wrangler, and if it weren't for the excellent mpg I get on the Taco (it is a 4 banger) and the fact that it just won't die and give me an excuse to sell it, I'd get an Unlimited.

    I've ridden in the back seat of my Wrangler for short periods of time, and didn't find it all that bad, though I wouldn't want to spend a long time in it. Probably would be fine for kids. I hate to address leg room - I'm only a hair over 5' so very few cars are too cramped (the Tacoma's "back seat" in the xtra cab is one of them!).

    I can get a fairly consistent 20 mpg for almost all highway and without any wind. I find that I make up more mpg on the way down hill than I use going up (probably the reason I get the 20 mpg). On a windy day, or if I drive consistently over 70 mph, my mileage goes out the window. So I would guess that the 19 is possible on good days but I wouldn't count on it all the time.

    I have a hard top and have never had a problem with being cold in the winter (yes, it gets cold and snowy at 6,000 feet). I was really impressed with the soft top on the Unlimited I test drove and think it would be fine for cold weather. I've always wondered how the soft top would deal with a large dump of snow - we had 30 inches one night a couple of years ago. However, I no longer worry about that - it has been so dry since that a soft top would be fine for me.

    Good luck with your choice - I love my Wrangler and will try to always have one, but I know that they aren't for everyone.
  • div2div2 Member Posts: 2,580
    I agree re: the effectiveness of the TJ HVAC system. Our soft top Sahara has coped with temps ranging from -0F to +100F with no problem. As for cars and kids, we only have one child(two would have meant selling my track car and that just wasn't going to happen). As a result, we only really needed our four door(a 1993 Pathfinder) when we wanted to haul his big stroller with us. The rest of the time we used my hatchback coupe or my old T-Bird Turbo beater. Now that our son is nine we seldom take my wife's sedan unless we need to bring our elderly parents along. For all other trips the three of us much prefer to take my hatchback or the TJ. The sedan is relegated to serving as my wife's work hack. Until DC starts selling Unlimited Rubicons, anyway...;)
  • fformula88fformula88 Member Posts: 30
    ... is still going to be a bear to deal with on a daily basis. Although I have a SWB Sahara, I definately would not want to have to be carrying heavy things into and out of the back seat too often. With the small doors to reach in, and the relatively high seat position in the car, it is a rather big strecth to reach back there (even at 6' its a reach for me). Sure it could be done, but it would be a killer on your back, and I am sure you would quickly get sick of it.

    If you are looking SUV, and like Jeeps, you may want to look at something like the Grand Cherokee. The sticker prices on them might look a little high, but you can get some good deals on them right now as dealers want to clear them out before the redesigned '05's come in. One local dealer around here was advertising Grand Cherokees with a purchase price of $23,500 (plus tax and tags), down from an MSRP in the low $30K's. At that price, I am sure its not costing much more, if any more than an unlimited would. For the SUV you would be getting, its a great deal. Then in a couple years when the kids can climb themselves into the back, and if you still wanted a Wrangler, you could always trade into one.

    Fuel Mileage: Someone asked whether the posted mileage is fairly accurate. Most people seem to get close to that mileage. My '02 Sahara with the old 3 speed auto (not as fuel efficient as the newer 4 speed) gets me about 15 MPG in the winter, and around 17 MPG in the summer. I have gotten up to 19 MPG on the highway, but that drops to around 17 if I am driving against the wind. I think my posted numbers on the sticker were 15/17. So I am really getting a bit better mileage than the posted numbers.
  • davesbrewdavesbrew Member Posts: 45
    First, thanks for all the responses and the congrats!

    Second, a little more info may need to be provided. For main baby hauler, we have a 2001 CR/V, which is a wonderful, sensible car.
    The wrangler would be a secondary / fun vehicle. It would be my daily driver. (unfortunately I've got a 120 mile round trip commute, so I'm really wishing they'd put a diesel in the wrangler too instead of just the liberty).
    What appeals to me about the wrangler is the open air driving and 4wd. I live on a farm, so sometimes have to drive through brush, ford creeks and the like, and in the next few years, the potential is there for work to move us further north so 4wd is a must on the next vehicle. (currently we're near Kansas City, so snow/ ice isnt a huge problem most of the time.)

    We can get supplier discounts on all GM family, DCX family (without benz), and Ford family vehicles, so we'll probably go domestic on this car for that reason.

    Other vehicles that I'm considering:
    Cooper: Great looks, handling, mpg, huge sunroof, but too small for a family and no 4wd.
    Wrangler Unlimited: great looks, open air, aftermarket configurability!, ALWAYS WANTED ONE, but bad mpg and (baby ability?)
    Equinox: no open air, seems to fit needs otherwise, but it just doesnt seem to have the same moxie that others do.
    Nissan Frontier Open Air edition: would be great if they had actually gone forward with this instead of axing it at last minute...
    Used to also want an Isuzu Amigo, but no sense replacing an old car with an old car.

    I love cars in general, so there's usually something that I like in every segment, but there's few vehicles that excite me the way a wrangler does.
    Also, recently I discovered the joy of offroading in cub cadet 6-wheeler, and would really like to translate that into a real car.

    So do you all think I need to settle for another vehicle - one unquestioningly good for families, or that the unlimited might be ok?

    Thanks,
    Dave
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