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The real value of "old" cars?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    I wonder if the windows are glass and not some kind of perspex material.

    Could be a fun project if bought for maybe in the $1500 neighborhood...I just look at that thing and think that my barely newer fintail is like a spaceship in comparison.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    edited September 2010
    It could be fun, but you'd REALLY have to like the ins and outs of British cars (to me they are like dogs and kids...maybe fun to play with, but I prefer they belong to someone else), and it would have to be cheap. There's just too much room for a nightmare with the "updated" components and no doubt backyard mechanic installations. There's not a lot of room for upside, and I don't believe it is suitable for highway driving.

    It also has to be 100% rust free, especially in the structure. These are cars that can have audible rust on a mere foggy day.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Very true words. to say that car is primitive wold be a huge understatement.

    I wouldn't mind a nice fintail if I could find one.

    Shifty, your thoughts on those?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    edited September 2010
    My opinions on them - buy the best you can afford, beware of rust, seek a fuel injected model, and a car that has been driven now and then to keep everything operational. Roadworthy ones are getting kind of scarce anymore too.

    I went to an estate sale on Yarrow Point a few years ago where they had a very nice and pretty light yellow 230S (dual carb model) - excellent cosmetics, but had 20 year old registration, so I don't know what lurked under the hood. They had been wanting $2500 for it, I don't know what it sold for.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited September 2010
    Yarrow Point huh? I had an aunt and uncle and four cousins that lived on Hunt's Point. Interesting story.

    Shfty, FYI, the "Points" compare to Belvedere waterfront.

    Cars that have been sitting for years scare me. the engine was probably frozen after 20 years for sure!

    Are these 4 cylinders or 6's?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    edited September 2010
    It was right as the housing price boom was peaking...no doubt the house was going to be a teardown for a tacky mcmansion.

    This car could have been started now and then and kept alive - but it was sold by the time I saw it, so I didn't ask. The paint and interior were pretty fantastic though, those are very expensive to get right. If someone got it for a couple grand and put that into it again to put it back on the road, they did ok. Nice original colors, always garaged, complete.

    They can be 4 or 6cyl - usually told by dual vs quad headlights, although there was a 6cyl dual light exception, the 230. 6 cyl cars are much better to drive in modern traffic, but the little 4s are fine for a hobby car. Diesels are painfully slow and a little clattery even compared to a stereotypical old MB. All of them are very sturdy, handle fairly well, and feel a lot heavier than their mere ~3000 lb weight suggests.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I've always liked those. What years were they produced and are some years better than others?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Belvedere waterfront is rather creepy to me. The houses have signs outside that say "armed response", which means, they'll shoot you. Howdy neighbor!

    FINTAILS -- these are very good cars. I drove one for many years--commuted every day from NYC to Jersey when I worked for Mercedes. Never let me down. Compared to my Jaguars and MGs, my 220Sb Benz was like an alien spaceship from an advanced civilization that had actually harnessed the power of electricity.

    57 Austin A 35--- I stand corrected---the 948cc engine would be a stock factory engine just like the one used in the later Morris Minor and Sprite. This powerhouse allows you to go from 0-60 in about 30 seconds, with 34 hp readily at hand. The rib cage transmission would be an upgrade, however, as would be the differential.

    I think the best vintage British car ever made ("best" in terms of reliability I mean) was the MGB.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    After having owned two MG's an A and a B, that doesn't give me much confidence if you think an MGB is the "best" in terms of reliability!

    The Points here in WA aren't as bad but I guarantee you if you just start driving around and a cop sees you (they will too!) and they don't know who you are, you WILL get pulled over. I did twice!

    My cousin's neighbors were the Nordstroms, John Erishman (Nixon), Kenny G and Craig Mc Caw among others. These people like their privacy.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2010
    That list of people doesn't have anyone on it I would take the time to bother anyway. :P Belvedere seems to have quite a few Iranians. This could possibly explain the paranoia.

    MGBs were *great* cars. Of course, if one is unfortunate enough to inherit a clapped out one that was worked on by monkeys, then of course one's experience might be less than wonderful.

    "Great" is relative---I did use the term in relation to *other* British cars of the era.

    You could actually set out across the country in an MGB and hope to see your destination.

    My personal standard for any car deemed "reliable" is this:

    "It'll get you home".

    Not necessarily running well, but home nonetheless.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    edited September 2010
    They were made from ~1960-68, as Euro cars didn't go by standard North American model years. Model years 1961-68 in US, but production started late in 59.

    Cars from 1963 onwards have dual circuit brakes and can be had with 4 speed auto, these are probably better if that technology matters Later cars are sometimes found with a floor shift manual, which wouldn't be bad - better than a 4 on the tree. Otherwise, save for trim and the first series vs second series engines (FI moved away from fintails after 1965), they are pretty much the same through the run.

    Regarding getting pulled over in the ritzy areas - I take my car out for a spin throgh the Points and nearby areas almost every time I take it out - never been hassled. I think what you are driving matters a lot to the badge wearers.
  • berriberri Member Posts: 10,165
    Regarding getting pulled over in the ritzy areas - I take my car out for a spin throgh the Points and nearby areas almost every time I take it out - never been hassled. I think what you are driving matters a lot to the badge wearers.

    Or maybe they consider you a curmudgeon who'll require them to take time off to argue the ticket in court - just kidding!
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited September 2010
    "... what you are driving matters a lot to the badge wearers."

    I'm guessing that the car's condition matters more than brand or model, or am I wrong? On the other hand, I'm thinking that maybe the badge guys (does gender matter?) are more lenient with old luxury models than with the popular priced ones. How the driver is dressed and groomed also makes a difference, I imagine.

    A clapped out Detroit mastodon with sagging springs and loud pipes would be a sure recipe for being stopped, while a somewhat rusty, sputtering Jag or Rover, driven by an elderly gentleman wearing a suit, would probably just garner a shrug from the local law man.
  • cltwhitecltwhite Member Posts: 1
    Generally used car value depends on its manufacturing date and also its condition.
    If the car is very old and in good condition you may get some good value.
    But it again depends on the technical specs condition like engine and other parts. ;)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,095
    Condition, or cleanliness, probably play a big role too, yeah. I keep my cars fairly spotless, and I have never had any issues about looking suspicious - even though I have usually been younger than the average driver of whatever car I have owned at the time.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    "My cousin's neighbors were the Nordstroms, John Erishman (Nixon), Kenny G and Craig Mc Caw among others.

    By chance did your cousin move from Hunts Point to Orcas Island? My son's inlaws lived across the road from Kenny G & close to Nordstrom before they went to Orcas. :surprise:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    When my aunt and uncle sold the Hunt's Point home in the mid seventies, they bought a place in Squim and another in Palm Desert. They loved to golf. My uncle was a WA state legislator if that rings a bell?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    With a For Sale sign on it.

    A Fiat...I know...Fix it Again Tony and even worse.

    It's a 1979 2000 Spider. Last year for a carburator. 68,000 miles same owner who happens to own a auto repair shop. He'e owned it for 20 years.

    Amazing interior after six years of storage under a tarp.

    Straight body with several rust spots...not bad though.

    Runs as nice as can be. Just replaced timing belt water pump and some other stuff.

    Asking 1800.00.

    Worse than a British car? Shifty?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2010
    The Fiat Spider is a nice little car to drive. Much more sophisticated than a British sports car, which is really cave-man technology.

    However, 1979 was just about the death of British sports cars, so it's not a fair year for comparison.

    Ideally, one should compare a 1968-191 MGB with a fuel-injected Fiat Spider 2000, say from 1981 or so. Either one of those would be a great car to have.

    A "needy" Fiat Spider is just a pile of parts. Not worth fixing at any price. You can buy a real sweetheart of a Fiat Spider for $5000 bucks, and you can't get from an $1800 neglected pile to a $5K Spider for 4X that difference in price.

    Nothing is more expensive to fix on an old car than bodywork and paint. One is always better off buying a pristine-looking car with a bad engine than vice-versa.

    Value of that Fiat? $600 in my opinion.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    As you know, I value your opinion and I had arrived at the same conclusion..

    I just thought I might be missing something.

    I do like the way they look and sound. Maybe I'll look for one that is "done".

    Thanks!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    One thing you'd enjoy---the convertible top is a brilliant design. A 5 year old child could easily raise it and fasten it.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    That was easy on our 63 Fiat 1200 Spider, but with a factory steel top, it still leaked onto the passenger side floor. Fun little thing if performance wasn't expected. :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2010
    The 124 Spider puts out decent performance, a very nice ride, comfy seats, plenty of cockpit room. What makes it nicer than an MGB is the comfort level. The B has a very low windshield and if you are anywhere near "tall", the wind blows your baseball cap off every time. Also the MGB suspension is about as advanced as a Roman chariot. Nonetheless, the MGB handles quite well on even roads.

    Most hassles with both Fiats and MGs regarding electrics are the bad grounds. Just cleaning battery cables, or replacing old ones, and buffing up fuse box terminals, improves reliability considerably.

    Downside on the Fiat is accessibility in the engine bay---it's tight in there. The MGB you could fix with plumber's tools from Home Depot. Few cars on the road today are as simple to repair as an MG. This presumes a modicum of knowledge, basic tools and a workshop manual.

    I would definitely consider buying a Fiat 124, simply for the comfort level over other 60s or 70s open style sports cars---but never EVER buy a rat.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Teh one I looked at yesterday wasn't really a rat but it was rougher than it should have been. It had been stored outside under a tarp. This is never a good thing especially where it rains a lot.

    I sat in it and I didn't realize hoe cushy the seats were compared to an MG. This interior was nice with no rips or dash cracks.

    The paint and rust was enough to keep me away.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2010
    Yeah all that and the fact that those electrics were exposed to weather, as was the braking system, various cables, nuts and bolts, etc. You can see where I'm going with this.

    If you start with this $1800 Fiat, and calculate what it would take to make it look like a really NICE 124, you simply can't get there from here.

    Here's the 124 you want---I bet with cash in hand you could get 'er for $5K or $5500. Looks like it's fuel injected, too. All the better.

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/pen/cto/1940364407.html

    Compared to THIS, the one you're looking at for $1800 seems crazy to me. I know you aren't seriously interested, but on that particular car, I see no upside or happy ending.

    Here's another, even CHEAPER that looks very decent and has had a good home:

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/1936241149.html

    THIS is what old Fiats with "needs' are really worth:

    http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/1942268201.html
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    If the Palo Alto Fiat were up here, I'd offer our 77 SeaRay 17' 302 I/O in trade. His four kids should learn to water ski.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    A couple of nice cars!

    No, I'm well aware of what a decent paint job alone costs these days. It's staggering.

    Thank you for your insights on Fiats. I've never driven one and until yesterday I never even sat in one.

    I do remember when I was in the tool business, the shops either refused to work on them or they hated them and called them junk.

    There was a shop in my hometown that had Pat's Fiat. He was the only guy in town that I know of that worked on them. His lot was always PACKED with cars.

    You paid his price and waited weeks.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    People tend to have contempt for what they do not understand. I have been guilty of this myself, but often, once I come to know a car, I change my mind---not ALWAYS, however. Sometimes I was right the first time.

    Fiats are fine if you have your mechanic and your parts sources lined up. Sure, the switchgear is cheap and the upholstery is made of cardboard, but you get what you pay for---if you wanted a higher quality interior, you bought an Alfa Romeo.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    So, what do you think of Alfa Spiders?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I really like Alfa Spiders. Of course, they come in many varieties, and those varieties have quite dissimilar characteristics, but overall, there's not one Alfa Spider I don't like.

    If you want the "pure" Alfa experience, I'd have to say 60s Spiders and perhaps the very early fuel injected SPICA cars of the 70s (Spiders and Coupes). I'd tend to skip over mid to late 70s cars, and then jump back in on the more sedate and less thrilling Bosch Motronic Spiders of the 1980s. In terms of styling, I don't like the whale-tail spoilers so much, so I'd tend to go for the last versions of the RWD Spiders, in the early 1990s.

    Given proper care, these Alfas can be very reliable and pleasurable cars, with no grievous faults beyond the usual electrical glitches (usually bad grounds).
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited September 2010
    As long as we're talking Italian brands, what's your general opinion about Lancias? That brand never caught on in the U.S., but they were highly regarded in Italy. I'm referring to before Lancias became upscale and/or rebadged Fiats.

    The Appias and Aprilias were well well engineered cars, with numerous innovations, but they go way back. I'm guessing that the Lancias of the '60s and '70s were more finicky and higher maintenance than their Alfa Romeo counterparts. I also think Lancia stressed luxury and comfort while Alfa stressed speed and sport. Your take?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited September 2010
    I think you have it all just about right. Lancia coupes and convertibles of that era (50s and 60s) can be quite valuable, depending on equipment and coachbuilder (Zagato). The little Appias and Aprilia sedans are beautifully built and appointed but not so valuable.

    I would love to have an Appia but I don't want to pay the kind of prices people ask (and usually don't get anyway).

    We in the USA usually only see the Fiat-era Lancias, which are not worth even talking about IMO.

    Probably the last truly credible Lancia was the 73-76 Stratos.

    The Lancia Aurelia B24 Spyder America is an interesting car you can google. You can pay more than 1/2 mil for one of those!

    Most affordable "collectible" Lancia? The Fulvia coupe1965-1973. Nice little car.
  • euphoniumeuphonium Member Posts: 3,425
    Having driven both in the same manner, reasonable and prudently, the Fiat was more dependable by far. That Plymouth had a 301 V8 w Torqueflite (5 buttons) & from the get go I thought the noise was the speedo cable, but sadly found out it was the tranny chewing itself up. It was repaired twice before 25,000 when the engine blew. What a POS! :mad:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    OK guys, I need your opinion here.

    Still kinda looking for a "fun" car that won't get a lot of use except on nice days.

    A couple in our neighborhood has a NICE 1994 BMW 325i. It is near flawless.

    All maintenance has been done either by the dealer or by a speciality shop that only works on BMW's. Not a scratch on it and it's always been garage and babied.

    It's a 5 speed and everything works as it should.

    Asking 3400.00.

    The catch? 188,000 miles!!

    Any BMW experts out there?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    That's a boatload of money for that car, nice though it may be.

    What makes you think it would be "fun" if you don't mind me askin'?

    Is it a convertible, or has mods or something?

    But ANYWAY, I'd make sure to check out the usual BMW suspects---radiator, water pump, thermostat, control arm bushings, scored rotors, electrical malfunctions, non-working AC.....

    if it's just a sedan, I'd save that kind of $$$ for a convertible.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Oh, I remember my 1989 325i and althought it wasn't a convertable, it was "fun" throwing it around twisty roads.

    BMW's can be quirky. I know that especially when it comes to the electricals.

    Not a sedan, just a coupe.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Oh well a coupe might be more fun---depends on how dead the suspension is after all those miles. The car could end up throwing *you* around. Might be worth checking out. Be nice if you could get it for less $$$ though. Them's big miles and the car has zero chance of ever appreciating in value.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    Yep, I agree.

    It has new struts and brakes and a bunch of other stuff.

    Our son lives nearby so he stopped to see it.

    He said it's a "20 footer" but in excellent shape. Sid the front spoiler has been cracked and taped up. The interior is the worst part of it. Leather worn with a six inch slit in the drivers side and a lot of wear on the passenger's side.

    Sounds like a 2500.00 car to me on a good day.

    Oh, it needs tires too so maybe closer to 2000.00. Don't ya think?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    More like $1500 the way you describe it. We aren't expecting perfection at this price so we can forgive the spoiler, but re-covering the seats and 4 new shoes, that's chunk o' change.
This discussion has been closed.