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The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Small - Yaris LB (lift back) sized. But a much larger trunk!
Published specs for wheelbase are .9" shorter than the 2003 model year VW Golf and 1.6" narrower body. The 2003 Golf had 115 hp and weighed 2,857 pounds vs. 100 hp for the new Mazda2 and 2,300 pounds. So when people exclaim that "B" segment cars are too small, it's good to remember that cars have "inflated" over the past 10 years and the "B" segment, as represented by the Mazda2 and Honda Fit, are really very similar in size to what used to pass as acceptable compact cars.
I test drove an automatic Sport model on a 12 mile loop - dealership to an on-ramp, up a hill, across a transition section, then back down a hill on surface street. Never felt the car lacked power, even with a 180 pound or so salesperson in the passenger seat. Ride is very controlled - supple bordering on firm. Very little body lean. Good braking. Passenger compartment is very quiet at highway speeds, and even relatively hushed under acceleration up the on-ramp, but this is a small car and at high rpm under heavy throttle some engine roar comes into the cabin. RPM did not exceed approximately 4,500. Automatic is well matched to the motor - downshifts readily, no hesitation, holds it in gear longer than typical in these gas mileage conscious days. Clearly tuned for driveability.
Tires are V (!) rated and relatively low profile (185/55). This car has "drive me!" written all over it.
Interior is simple but clean, comparable to the last generation VW Golf, but without soft touch padding on the dash (the Fiesta has soft touch padding). Textures on the plastic pieces in the Mazda2 are excellent. The only out-dated item in the dash is the slide lever to switch from recirculated air to fresh air - it is a mechanically operated damper, not electrically operated. Many entry level cars have not made this switch yet. There is no operational advantage to a manually operated damper, except that the control circuitry for defrost operation with a motor can be set to switch to fresh air automatically. If you use defrost on this (dehumidifying) you will need to adjust the recirculation lever yourself.
"Stalk gear" on each side of the steering column to operate turn signals, lights, and wipers is top notch - something from a much more expensive car. Radio with "piano black" surround looks classy. I prefer the "all black" (except for some brushed satin door trim) to the abundance of brushed satin in the Ford Fiesta, but this is a question of taste.
From a practical standpoint, it is easier to buy a 2 than a Fiesta if you are sensitive to price. There are only two trim lines and no real options other than the auto transmission. Even floor mats are included! A neat electrical button on the rear hatch unlocks it (it is operable when all doors are unlocked). Much nicer than the mechanical black plastic button on the Yaris LB. There is a lip on the bottom edge of the 2's hatch for lifting it up instead of the slightly cheap looking "hook" on the Yaris LB.
The less expensive Sport edition of the Mazda2 doesn't punish you with such cheaper trim items that you feel downmarket - a problem with the Honda Fit, which forces you to choose between cheap looking (old-fashioned black outside mirrors and dull gray headlight surrounds, instead of body-color and chrome). The Sport 2 is classy, the Touring 2 is sportier spoiler, aluminum wheels, tweeters. If you need cruise control (long drives would not be out of the question on this car) you will need the Touring edition.
The radio operation is relatively simple and intuitive, rare these days; sound quality on the Sport, is only average, but I didn't try it with a CD so maybe the FM is a little "flat." I suspect a simple front speaker upgrade would fix this - if there is any problem it is the crispness and highs from the speakers, not the head unit.
The steelies with wheel covers look better than average - both the new Golf last year and this Mazda2 come with unusually nice wheel covers - especially compared to the really bare bones look of the base model Honda Fit.
This is a very nice car and I am seriously thinking about getting one, probably in the automatic since it has adequate pep and doesn't feel "ancient" despite having only 4 speeds.
This car is an outstanding example of what careful engineering can achieve at this modest price point. It is the first economy car I have driven that doesn't feel or look cheap. It's small, and simpler (teutonically simpler?) than the 3 series, but solid.
Truly "zoom zoom concentrated." I had feared cheap, but they have delivered simple and sweet.
I drove the Mazda2 Sport with the 5-speed manual.
Overall, it is put together much better then it looks in print. It really does not feel underpowered either.
Without driving the Fiesta, I cannot tell which drives better, but not one review has said the Fiesta is more nimble and the Fiesta is not faster, either.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
One thing I noticed was the driver's seat height adjuster works well, in that it doesn't pitch you forward as it raises. With the driver's seat raised all the way, I still had enough headroom (I'm 5'10") and it created excellent toe space in back. The back seat is cramped, but with the driver's seat elevated I was able to slide it forward and still be comfortable, while being reasonably comfortable in back--enough for a couple of hours at least.
The car has some quality touches: the doors close with a solid "thunk", the seat fabric (black) looks pretty good, and the radio display is quite nice as noted earlier. But there's signs of cost cutting: no padding anywhere, even on the door arm rests (Mazda: talk to Nissan!); no iPod jack; no center console or armrest; no rear center armrest; and no tilt/telescope steering column (if it does that, I couldn't find the lever).
But the base (Sport) Mazda2 is a good deal I think. The list on the car I looked at was $15.5k, with automatic and all the standard safety features including ESC. Consider that a 5-door Yaris so equipped will be over $16k, as will the 4-door Accent with ABS and automatic (but no ESC). Think of it: a Mazda for less money than a Hyundai! Also, I remember the list price on a 1997 Sentra GXE with a stick shift and 2 airbags that I leased back then was about the same as the Mazda2 today. What inflation?!
Cruise control
Trip computer
Leather-wrapped steering wheel
Steering-wheel-mounted audio controls
6 speakers (instead of 4)
I don't care about trip computers myself, but I'd probably want the rest of that and would much rather have alloys than fake alloy wheel covers. I don't think I can ever buy another car, though...I've been ruined forever by getting a Mazda6 for $16K a few years ago.
I actually prefer wheel covers if they look decent. Too many high curbs in my town that jump out and attack alloy wheels, plus alloys can pit/rust/leak over time (as on my 2000 626).
I've never understood why steel wheels have to be made ugly, so that plastic covers are needed. They seem to do steel truck wheels without covers, why can't steel wheels for cars be made to look good w/o covers, too?
I owned a Jetta and Rabbit with exactly the wheel covers in your photo. Not great looking, but easy to keep clean!
In terms of iPod jack, yes it lacks one that would allow you to navigate an iPod from the car radio's screen instead of from the iPod. But it DOES have the typical "audio in" which lets you feed the music from an iPod out the headphone jack into the car stereo. That's enough for me. Also the radio is MP3 capable, meaning a single CD can conceivably hold a LOT of music. (I don't know how easy it would be to navigate folders on an MP3 encoded CD.
Backy, you used to have well-though out "amateur" (only in terms of getting paid!) reviews of small cars. I hope you test drive the new crop and share your perspective with the rest of us.
Thanks for the compliment. I will definitely drive the latest crop of small cars when it gets closer to the time to replace my leased Sentra with the car that my daughter will take to college. There's several new small cars here or coming soon--the Mazda2, Fiesta and redesigned Focus, redesigned Accent and Elantra, the Cruze, and probably others e.g Yaris replacement. Will be a tough choice the next go-round!
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
Interesting. The problem I have found with plastic wheel covers is that they don't stay on the car. And, the second problem happens when you want to replace one with a matching original, that is, the problem is the ridiculous cost.
On the other hand, I have found that my alloys are holding on and holding up, even after 8 years.
Re cost, I've had success buying replacement wheel covers on eBay. On a minivan I leased, I went to Target and bought some nice looking covers for (I think) $25 for a set of 4, and put them on until it was time to turn in the van. Can't do that as cheaply with alloys.
OTOH, only one of the alloys (bright-finished) on my 626 is in good shape, the others are pitted, rusted, and/or leaking (yes, I wax them). Alloys on my 2004 Elantra (painted) aren't rusting, but have several scrapes on them because the spokes stick out just enough to catch high curbs. I had to replace one once when my wife slammed into a curb in a blizzard, and it cost a LOT more than a steel wheel + cover.
Not in my limited experience. I use plastic wheel covers on my winter tires and alloys for the summer. I learned to use plastic aftermarket cheapies because the originals are at least four times the cost; would you believe $100 for a plastic wheelcover from the dealer?
had to replace one (i.e. alloy) once ...it cost a LOT more than a steel wheel + cover
You're right. An alloy is more expensive than a steel wheel + plastic wheelcover.
Other driving dynamics similar of course.
Stick shift felt more "involving" and "connected" but hey that's the nature of shifting for yourself.
Revisited the radio. Speaker quality is fine. I am sure the tweeters on the Touring edition sweeten it up, but for a daily commuter the stock speakers in the Sport model are very satisfying.
Great car. Quite simply it blows the Yaris LB away in price, performance, quietness, and materials choices and details.
Can't compare it to the Fit - apples and oranges - mini mini van which is noisier but a real cargo hauler. Comparable mileage.
In terms of the Fiesta, I prefer the Mazda2 styling but that is ABSOLUTELY a personal choice only.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
I have a 2006 Mazda3 with the factory 17" alloy wheels and I learned the hard way just how expensive they are to replace! They retail for $436 from Mazda, even now! I had a run-in with a very nasty pothole (at least 8" deep) and it bent both wheels on the right side of the car. I lucked out an found one used at a local salvage yard in great shape for $125 and had one of the damaged ones reconditioned for $100- good as new.
Along with the wheels, the replacement tires are also ridiculously expensive for a compact car that only had a sticker of $18k. The original Goodyear Eagles were toast at 32k miles and a new set of identical Goodyears would have cost almost $1100! I laughed at the tire guy and quickly found a set of Dunlops for $600 that lasted longer than the original ones!
The Mazda2 has 185/55VR15 tires on all models, with plastic wheel covers on the Sport and Alloys on the Touring model. Just out of curiosity, I checked the prices for replacements and they range from $100-$120 locally. Not as bad as a Mazda3, but they ain't the $40 175/70R13s I remember buying for my old Hondas either.
At least both models of the Mazda2 deliver a lot of features at a very reasonable price ($1100-$1600 less than similar Fiesta models). I also think the MZ2 is the better looking of the two and the 5-speed manual is peppy enough and has acceptable fuel economy. But the MPG ratings with the 4-speed automatic aren't very impressive...27/33 with a combined average of 29MPG (per FuelEconomy.gov). The only competitors with lower figures are the Chevy Aveo (25/34 and 28mpg avg) and Nissan Versa 4AT (24/32 with 27mpg avg). The Fiesta 6AT is rated at 29/38 and 33mpg combined and Honda Fit (base model) gets 28/35/31 (Fit Sport is rated at 27/33/30).
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
In terms of fuel economy, for careful drivers the Mazda 2 may surprise - it is 200-300 pounds lighter than its competition, and 100-300 cc. smaller. I believe those factors will make up for shift-point and other tuning biased towards spriteliness instead of beating the EPA cycle test. Or I could be wrong and the slight mileage penalty in the Mazda2 could be due to cost cutting in the engine - single point instead of multi point fuel injections, coatings or lack thereof on the cylinder wall, etc. All we know for sure if that Mazda intended to deliver a fun car and not the thriftiest one - a theme across the whole line - and I'd rather give up 2-3 EPA rated mpg than the fun factor.
Take a look at Valerie Neff's review of the Fiesta - she loved the Euro spec one with the 5 speed when she was one of the "early drivers' program" but now she has an North American spec with the automatic, she's cool on it - the automatic disappoints her.
Well we can wait for more reviews to come out and then weigh them Rotten Tomatoes style, but the early reviews threw a curve ball at me by preferring the slightly down market 2 to the slightly up market Fiesta - enough to get me to test drive the M2 - and it is indeed sweet. Without getting pretentious and running up the tab too high.
I would have to agree with "more satisfying to drive" though - not based on my particular test drive of the 2, but on the many stick shifts and few automatics I've driven the past 10 years - you feel more connected and alert with a stick shift. Of course, on city streets and in slow and go traffic you can wish for an automatic....
That, in fact, is how my (separated by two weeks) test drives of the Fit stick and Mazda stick felt - the Honda felt a tad quicker and freer rev'ing.
Caveat: I revised my opinion on the radio after a revisit and think I owe the stick shift Mazda2 a second drive.
I drove both the automatic and manual Mazda 2 within days of each other and while both cars impressed me, the manual 2 is, in my mind, the much better package. On the highway, the four speed-auto runs out of gears causing revs to consistently stay up over 3000 rpms. The manual's fifth gear is just enough to keep revs and noise down in the cabin. I was cruising at 80 mph on the highway and, unlike the 2 with the auto box, the manual car never sounded buzzy. In fact, the engine sounded remarkably at ease. Impressive. At this speed, even in fifth gear our Four Seasons Honda Fit's 1.5-liter 4-culinder would have been deafening. link title
Two comments. Generally automatics are tuned to run at lower rpm than the stick shift - when I test drove the M2 auto at 70 mph, rpm were not "over 3000 rpm". If this test driver was speeding and slowing (passing cars then slowing etc. then speeding back up) the automatic may have been "hunting" by dropping out of lockup in 4th gear or even down to 3rd causing the rpm to run higher (I had a similar experience with a 4 speed auto trying to follow a friend one time). Conversely, the stick shift in the Yaris LB, Fit, and Golf (all from personal experience) ran about 800 rpm higher than the auto versions - 3800-4000 rpm at 80 mph - geared so you wouldn't be likely to need to downshit to 4th on the freeway.
In other words, I think this test driver was pushing both cars on the freeway and found it easier to maintain speed without noisy downshifts in the stick shift. From that perspective the comment is probably valid - but it's not the usual scenario of keeping up with the flow of traffic at 75-80, where downshifts aren't needed very often if at all.
Was IS fascinating is the comment on noise level. I found the Fit "buzzy" at 80 because it is turning about 3850 rpm, pretty high. Apparently the Mazda2 has found a way to keep the cabin quiet (the rpm may still be high, but to no ill effect). That's a big plus. Noise levels have been one reason I've shied away from the Fit despite the superb seating ("Magic Seating").
link title
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/hatchbacks/1008_2011_mazda2_test/index.html
Turns out the manual Mazda2 faster than everything in our recent Budget Banshees four-way comparison test. In fact, the only thing quicker than the Mazda2 in this segment is Honda's Fit Sport manual, which puts down an absurd 8.3 sec./60 time and 16.3 sec./84.8 mph quarter mile - an advantage that doesn't translate to handling."
">link title
INTERIOR NOISE - Cruising @ 70 mph, sones/dBA
Fiesta: 24.7/67.5 Fit: 25.2/67.6 Versa 23.8/66.0 Yaris LB 27.0/69.2
Read more: link title
Note that although the one review cited in my earlier post lambasts the noisiness of the Fit, there isn't much difference in actual dB between the Fiesta which gets kudos for quietness and the Fit which gets lambasted for noisiness. Maybe the character of the noise?
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
link title/
If above link does not work, cut and paste:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/video-hub/featured/featured-videos/mazda2/173- 87256001/490985308001/
I am puzzled why subjective reviews say the Mazda2 is much quieter....
Loudness is also affected by parameters other than sound pressure, including frequency, bandwidth and duration.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness
I can confidently say that the Mazda2 Sport (5MT) is the best value among these subcompact models. For $14,730 (including $750 Destination), you get Power Windows, Locks & Mirrors, A/C, Remote Keyless Entry, a rather decent sounding 4-spkr audio system with AUX input, side-impact airbags & head air curtains, Stability Control, Traction Control, ABS with Brake Assist & Electronic Brakeforce Distribution and it even has standard front & rear carpet floormats! The Honda Fit Base 5MT costs $920 more but lacks Brake Assist, Stability Control, Traction Control and Keyless Entry. The Ford Fiesta SE is $1140 more than the Mazda2 Sport and has most of the same features (except Brake Assist and you have to pay extra for rear floormats) but doesn't add any features despite the higher price. :confuse:
When I first learned that the MZ2 engine only made 100hp, I was a little concerned. But the car weighs 200+ pounds less than most competitors (Fit and Fiesta) and the little 1.5L peak hp and torque output is reached at lower revs than the other guys. It's torque peak (98 whopping lb-ft) is at 4000rpm, while the Fit's 106lb-ft is at 4800rpm. The combination of lower weight and a little more power accessible lower in the rev range give the car plenty of 'zoom-zoom'. It actually reminded me of driving a friend's '87 Mazda 323 3-door hatchback way back in high school....I was surprised at how much spunk that little car had and it was a blast to drive. Thankfully, the Mazda2 has a much nicer interior design with better than average fit-and-finish and material quality that isn't abysmal (although the Honda Fit's interior design is uglier to me, Honda doesn't skimp on using the best materials). I was very impressed with the seat comfort, especially for a small car. I'm 6'2" and 235#, so I don't find a lot of very small cars to be comfortable. The Chevy Aveo seats = purgatory, IMHO.... :surprise:
I also took a drive in a Mazda2 Touring with an automatic tranny. My expectation was that the Touring upgrades would be absolute necessities for me, if I were to buy one. But I was dreading the performance-robbing automatic shifter like I would a root canal! For the most part, both of those expectations were way off base!
The Touring model does add some nice goodies to the standard features list (Cruise Control, upgrade to 6-spkr audio w/ controls on steering wheel, leather-wrapped steering wheel, Alloy Wheels, Rear Liftgate Spoiler, Red Piping on Seats, Fog Lights, Trip Computer) for $1455 more than the Sport. The Automatic adds another $800, so the price of the car I drove was $16,985. It's still a very reasonable price for a subcompact with that level of equipment....but it's also crossing into Mazda3 i Sport price range! As good as the Mazda2 is, the Mazda3 is simply MORE car, even if it has less features when comparing the i Sport to a MZ2 Touring. It's almost like a style vs. substance dilemma comparing the two...
As for the 4-speed automatic- When I think of a small car with limited power being saddled with an automatic, I always flash back to my step-mom's '87 Toyota Tercel! It was rockin' 78hp (I think "hp" meant hamster-power in this one instance) and a 3-speed automatic...the neighbor kid's Barbie Dream Car could outrun it in the 1/4 mile! If you managed to get up to 55 or 60mph on the highway, you could floor it and it would kick down to 2nd and rev so hard that it would shake the fillings in your teeth, but that speedo needle wouldn't move. You just had to wait for gravity (or drafting) to help you out eventually.
In the Mazda2, the automatic is very well suited for city driving (stop-and-go). It doesn't feel the least bit underpowered and it knows how to downshift just as quickly as it upshifts. A lot of automatics rush thru the gears to get into O/D for fuel economy, but getting a downshift takes a heavy foot and some patience. Not the case with the MZ2. thankfully. It did an acceptable job of merging onto a 70mph freeway, although I gunned it at the top of the ramp. The problem that I noticed was that it runs out of steam over 70mph. Flooring it at 70 will get a quick downshift to 3rd, but forward progress isn't nearly as swift as it feels in slower situations. I recently had a 2010 Toyota Corolla rental car for several weeks and it also had a 4-speed automatic. Overall, the MZ2 felt quicker than that Corolla in all situations, so it's probably more than adequate for most drivers.
I didn't intend for this to be so long, but I was very impressed by the little charmer known as Mazda2! Anyone else taken one for a drive? Or perhaps even purchased one?
I test drove and really liked the Mazda2 Sport yesterday, but I would want the Aquatic Blue if I buy one....or maybe they could just spray on the Celestial Blue they use on the MZ3 s, that would work..
Agreed, I also find the pricing model for the Mazda2 is curious. In Canada, the Mazda2 GS automatic is approaching the price range of a Mazda3 GX automatic with a more powerful engine and more space. On the other hand, the Mazda2 is lighter and more fuel efficient. Does this mean the base model of the Mazda2 will be the choice for most buyers as they will get the fuel economy and the price point?
We'd go for the Silver color unless they add a blue one. Just not sure how happy she'll be going from a 2.3 down to a 1.5 engine...the lack of power is something she'll notice right away but she says she really wants to go a size smaller. She'll get whatever she wants but I'll push for a 2012 model on whatever she buys.
The Sandman :sick: :shades:
2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)
If that's MORE car, I will take LESS car, thank you very much!
The price difference between Sport and Touring is so small on the M2 that I think a lot of people will go for the Touring just to get cruise, alloys, and the nice red piping on the seats (which adds a very nice touch to the interior I think).
Honda thought more people would want the base Fit too, when it came out, and in the end they are selling more than 70% in the Sport (upper level) trim instead...
I just saw a Mazda2 on the highway painted in banners saying "Check out MazdaUSA.com" and stuff like that. A rolling advertisement, and I have to say that green color is really growing on me....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Agreed (although I think the Mazda3 handles and steers well). My preference is for lighter vehicles. This means a large engine would not be required. I'll have to test out the Mazda2 to see if the 1.5L is up to the job.
The front passengers get side curtain and side torso airbags; the rear passengers nothing.
A bad cost/weight saving move. Side curtain airbags (the head protecting kind) are a real life saver for adults.
The jury is out on kids. If they are in those forward facing child seats, I don't think side curtains add anything. If they are in a booster seat you have to balance the safety provided when they are in proper position (seated upright) vs. the risk of injury from the side curtain if they fall asleep and slump against the window.
Of course some side curtain airbags use sensors to determine if people are out of position, or newer ones "roll down" and put the person into a safe position.
Thoughts on Mazda's decision to omit?
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=modelsMain&vehi- cleCode=MZ2#/safety/airBags
"Front side-impact air bags and side-impact air curtains"
Now that I read that description again it is ambiguous. The features link you found makes it clear there IS front and read side curtain protection. THANKS FOR THE CORRECTION.
The 2 is back on my list....
Since you are one of the few in here that actually have driven this car, how do you rate the AC's performance? The 3 was known to have weak AC and my friend's 5 has a hard time cooling off the interior in Florida's hot and humid weather. I'm hoping the same problem doesn't afflict the 2. The 2 is highest on my list of cars once my 95 Integra GSR sedan decides to kick the bucket.
So I will probably bide my time...
Comments?
p.s. I would be especially interested in "seat of the pants" evidence
All of these cars outperform my series of old ZX3's (Focii) from what I remember - they were tuned a little loose. My old Golfs (torsion beam) outperformed the ZX3's, in turn, despite the ZX3's having multi-link.
Everything outperformed the '90's series Civics I had, which were supposed to have a great independent rear suspension and clearly had a low center of gravity.
I would place more stock in the subjective impressions of the magazine writers than in other factors. I find them pretty reliable.
The Nissan Versa I had (6 sp manual) was a dog in terms of handling, but a nice supple "French" style ride.