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2012 Ford Focus

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Comments

  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Just as I thought -- the Koreans don't know about steering feel, as everyone else in this test does it better. The best steering feel here -- the new Mazda3 w/ direct-drive electric steering -- isn't even so great to begin with, & the new electric-steering Focus III still trails it.

    Go test drive an used '06 or '07 Focus SES 2.0 PZEV stick w/ pure hydraulic steering & a comfy suspension. You might wonder what's so attractive about these newer cars...
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    If I'm not mistaken, the new Mazda3 is using a classic hydraulically assisted steering rack (the same as on my 2009 Mazda3); the difference between that and other non-electric cars is that the hydraulic pump is electrically powered versus belt/engine powered.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    So the new Focus uses pure electric steering, while the new Mazda3 still uses the electro-hydraulic assist. No wonder the Focus trails behind.

    But the Focus II 1.6 w/ pure hydraulic steering has more feel than the Focus II 2.0 w/ electro-hydraulic assist. It was described by one UK car magazine as the difference b/t having the glove on or off.

    But still, even w/ conventional pure hydraulic steering, the Focus II 1.6 already has less steering feel than the Focus I:
    http://beta-townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.ef2656e/66#MSG66
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    There are many-many variables which need to be taken into account when one says the steering from one car has more feel than that of another car, not the least of which is tire diameter, wheel diameter (even if the outer tire diameter is the same), and tire width. Take a car with good feeling steering and 15" wheels and 185 section width tires (of any given diameter) and nine times out of ten that same car will feel disconnected and numb if you put 18" wheels and 225 section width tires of the same diameter on it.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I am aware of it, but even my Focus I w/ 205/50-16 has way less steering feel than my '90 Protege twin-cam w/ 195/60-14 Bridgestone Turanza, which (at least the varieties after mid '90's) is already one of the least feel-ful tires.

    Steering feel is one thing. Steering precision is another. My '07 Focus I ST w/ 205/50-16 H Pirelli P6 seems to have less steering precision than the '09 Mazda3 w/ 205/50-17 V Goodyear Eagle RS-A.

    Audi's have no feel, but the precision is excellent.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I'm thinking the tires are the problem on the 2009 Mazda. My 2009 Mazda3 came with those (absolute crap) Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires and they were so bad from literally every metric that I yanked them (and sold them on Craigs List) and replaced them with a set of Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires after only 714 miles. The difference in the handling precision and feel was astounding; way-WAY better than I could have ever hoped.
  • darexdarex Posts: 18
    So, say I wanted a Focus hatch, and I want all the bells-and-whistles, but I want a manual transmission?

    Just like with the Fiesta, I am denied.

    All the high-end options are restricted to the sedan in the 2012 Focus, and even some lesser ones. Steel wheels? You've got to be kidding!! If I want alloys, I'm forced to get the Sport package, which in turn forces you to get the sedan! I don't do trunks, I'm afraid, not to mention the sedan versions look like crap.

    I want MT and a hatch -- loaded. Ford doesn't seem to feel as though anyone like me exists, and as a result, Ford has lost a customer. Why are they bucking the trend towards premium hatches by forcing the consumer to get base-trim if they want a nice hatch, with manual-transmission? MINI allows you to configure their cars any way you want, and in every permutation under the sun. Nissan offers manual transmission for the Juke ONLY on the TOP two trim levels.

    Lame!!!
  • bamacarbamacar Posts: 749
    Agree about not being able to get a lot of the options on a Focus with manual.

    You can get the 5 door SE with Manual and Sport Package with many of the colors: Kona Blue, Yellow, Candy Red, Race Red, Grey, Silver, White, and Black. I don't like how the configurator changes the car to a sedan without asking when you change to the other colors or automatically removes the sport package when you change to Green.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    While I agree with your general sentiment, somehow I think you've missed something in the configurator for the Focus. Why? Because I just configured a 2012 Focus SE 5-Speed with the following goodies:

    - 2012 Ford Focus SE 5-Door 5-Speed -- $18,065
    - 203A Package -------------------------------- $1,195
    - Tuxedo Black Metallic ----------------------------- $0
    - SE Sport Package ------------------------------ $695
    - Winter Package -------------------------------- $570
    - Power Moonroof ------------------------------- $795
    - 17" Machined and Painted Alloy Wheels -- $495
    - Interior Style Package - Tuscany Red ------ $795
    - Destination ------------------------------------- $725
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    - Total ------------------------------------------ $23,335

    Granted things like the climate control, auto wipers and such aren't configurable for the SE, many goodies are. :)
  • atomic13atomic13 Posts: 6
    Hi everyone. I realize it's difficult to ask this since the car JUST came out but I was wondering if anyone has had a chance to see yet if a rear-facing car seat fits in the backseat while still allowing a front passenger. Edmunds hasn't done a road test yet, which usually answers that question so I thought I would ask in the forum. As an example, one fits in the Mazda3 but with the front passenger's knees literally in the dash. The Golf/GTI meanwhile allows space for the car seat and a passenger. This is a make-it-or-break-it consideration for me. Thank you if anyone is able to help.
  • smallcar1smallcar1 Posts: 76
    All the car magazines love the Mazda 3 because of its handling. The 2010 and later 3 has a very rough ride in areas with rough pavement. The ride kept me from buying one.

    The 3 is still is noiser than some others. I am interested to see if the Focus has a more comfortable ride.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    All the car magazines love the Mazda 3 because of its handling. The 2010 and later 3 has a very rough ride in areas with rough pavement. The ride kept me from buying one.

    Totally agree. I couldn't even stand the ride comfort of the old Mazda3 2.3 wearing only 16"s! But now after-market Monroe shocks are available, at least for the old-generation Mazda3's. They should solve its nervous rebound movement. Gabriel shocks happen to be too stiff these days.

    But then, opt for a new Focus w/ 16"s might be comfy enough. Otherwise you have to go for the numb-steering VW's -- the Golf 2.5, which doesn't have the turbo models' stiff suspension found in the TDI or GTI.

    Of course, an used '06 Focus SES (only 5'7" wide, by the way) will guarantee you a comfy ride plus a lively steering! But one big reason I prefer the old Focus sedan over the Mazda3, etc. is the less restricted rear visibility width. Plus, the Mazda3's door armrest is too low for my elbow. I love Volvo S40/V50's high door armrest that supports my left arm for holding on to the steering wheel spoke & turn-signal stalk all at the same time!
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    I also agree that the stick shift should be available with every trim. It can't cost them any extra to do this.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding the steering feel of the Golf/Rabbit/GTI models; I have a pretty fair amount of seat time in the previous generation VW as well as a 2006 ZX5 SES Focus, and from my perspective, the VW steering is way more precise than the Focus (which isn't bad, but isn't anywhere near as razor sharp as the VW).
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    Good question, and relevant for me too. I understand that the the rear legroom is substantially smaller than in the Mazda3 (33 vs 36), and the front legroom is slightly larger than in the 3 (43.7 v 42). The Mazda3 is overall larger than the Focus.

    Just out of curiosity, how tall are you and/or your passengers?
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I was at a focus group more than a year ago when I compared the new Focus III & new Mazda3 side by side. The Focus had slightly more stretch-out rear leg room (& possibly more knee clearance as well). But the new Focus I sampled in the most recent LA Autoshow had the passenger-side leg room reduced so much even worse than the driver side. My assumption is the passenger-side front floor panel being moved rearward for better crash-test result?
  • It is my understanding that the 2012 Focus has the same 6-speed automatic transmission that they're having problems with in the Fiesta. The problem is too many gears. If you're doing 65 in 6th gear and have to stop suddenly, the tranny has a problem getting back down to first. Owners of the Fiesta have complained then the car has difficulty hitting second gear or even engaging, leaving you hanging with no thrust! I just can't have that happen. Plus, I'm not into sedans. I like coupes, like a 2-door hardtop or a 3-door hatchback, which won't be available for some time. The center pillar is too close to the front on the sedan, and I can't get in without a shoehorn. I shouldn't have to squeeze into the driver's seat. I'm 6'1 220 lbs., so this car is too small. I liked the 2011 Focus Coupe, but Bill Pierre wouldn't let me trade into it because they said it was too cheap according to their loan value, so I have to keep my 2010 Mustang, which isn't so bad, I guess.

    Not to mention, the greedy car dealer bastards are marking the 2012 Focus ABOVE MSRP and that just does not sit well with me. If there's anything I hate, it's greedy, profiteering at the expense of the working class. Second stickers are a sure way to get me NOT to buy the thing, and makes me wait until I can get a used one with all the markup erased by the natural depreciation. Focuses, regardless of the year, are notorious for losing 33% - 40% (!!!) of their value in the first year which is why the banks don't want to finance them as much as say, an Acura or a Mustang.

    I'll let these guys get their s*** together before I think about trading out of my Mustang. Besides, although I like the handling of the 2011 Focus (which I test drove), the Mustang just blows it away in terms of performance, and only gets about 5-6 miles per gallon less in fuel economy.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    There's a very simple answer to your issues with the 6-Speed autotragic transmission; buy a stick. :)
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Is that why the Mazda3 didn't bother with this tranny? Car&Driver rated Mazda3's slushbox superior to the other guys in this recent comparo.
  • shiposhipo Posts: 9,152
    Which tranny? Ford's automatic used in the Fiesta and Focus? Don't actually know as I'm a self avowed manual transmission bigot and don't really follow automatic transmissions all that much. That said, I do wish Ford would use the excellent 6-Speed manual from the Mazda3 in the new Focus.
  • dudleyrdudleyr Posts: 3,447
    As far as I am concerned just about every automatic transmission leaves you in the lurch every now and then.

    That is why I stick with the stick. It is always in the gear I want when I want it. It even knows what gear to be in seconds before the shift. The best part is the car is faster, more frugal and costs less - with the only transmission in the world that is as smart as a human brain, and can see the road ahead.
  • gambit293gambit293 Posts: 406
    There's a lot going on in your post, which is a little confusing. It sounds like you neither need nor want a Focus (which you are comparing to a Mustang that you already own?).

    Anyway, if I'm understanding you right, the problem with the tranny isn't "too many gears" but rather that it's reluctant to downshift. This is something I'd have to try out myself with a test drive.

    Hopefully, the 2012 Focus won't suffer depreciation as drastic as past models. I definitely agree about the pricing though. Pretty much all new models are going to have a mark-up, which is why I'm planning to wait about a year before buying.
  • ivan_99ivan_99 Posts: 1,669
    I do wish Ford would use the excellent 6-Speed manual from the Mazda3

    Agreed...I drove the new Mazda 6 a couple years ago when it came out and it had the 4cyl, 6spd...best implementation of a manual tranny i've ever driven.

    I found myself shifting for no reason going down the road...heh...up a gear...down a gear...

    Not sure how hard it would be to put this in the Focus...sounds easy from my perspective :)
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    Did you know how much the buyers paid for the Focus SVT 6-sp? I don't see why we can't get it today, especially for a $27k Focus.
  • tim156tim156 Posts: 308
    I know two people who own Fiesta's and both have only good things to say about the smooth shifting transmission and love the car overall. Whether or not they have had to rapidly stop from 65 mph I don't know. As far a pricing above MSRP, I ordered and negotiated a deal for an SEL hatch with the 303A package for $23,665, $1460 under MSRP or $3.00 over dealer invoice. Currently, there is a $500 discount if you finance through Ford Credit and some people have received a $750 Private Cash discount coupon from Ford. There are deals out there, you just need to know how to get them.
  • puffin1puffin1 Posts: 276
    edited April 2011
    I agree I have a Golf 170 hp 5spd and I put 16 inch Pro Contacts and alloys and I tried the Focus and the and standard bells and whistles,especially the multi level heated seats and lumbar, which Focus doesn't offer.
    Any ways check out the 2014 Focus HB 80 mpg with a diesal . It's a TCDI HB soon to go to the UK.
    Have a good day. :shades:
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I'm not sure what you're referring to regarding the steering feel of the Golf/Rabbit/GTI models; I have a pretty fair amount of seat time in the previous generation VW as well as a 2006 ZX5 SES Focus, and from my perspective, the VW steering is way more precise than the Focus (which isn't bad, but isn't anywhere near as razor sharp as the VW).

    I had a chance to compare my '05 & '07 Focus ST 2.3 with '95 Jetta VR6 & '07 Rabbit 2.5.

    I love the old VW's pwr steering. It's got progressive natural resistance as you turn along w/ tons of steering feel. The electric steering in the new Rabbit, while precise, seems too light & hardly has any feel when comparing to the Focus ST 2.3 sedan.

    When cornering at fwy speeds, the '05 Focus ST seems to lack sufficient resistance in order to feel confident inspiring, while the '07's tunning doesn't have this problem despite slightly too light at low speeds. So I'm not sure how the '06's tunning is like (even though I did drive an '06 ST sedan briefly but didn't really notice anything). Nevertheless, the Focus still does not have the meaty restance built up as you turn, & that's what I love about the old VW's.

    & when comes to being able to tell whether the road is slippery or not such as cruising on the fwy in the rain, either my '05 or '07 Focus ST w/ 205/50-16 Pirelli P6 kicks [non-permissible content removed] going at least 70mph confidently & effortlessly w/ just my finger on the wheel while rest of the traffic had to slow down whether it's a Porsche or the new Mercedes C-class, which the driver was holding dearly w/ both hands grabbing on the wheel nervously. LOL
  • smallcar1smallcar1 Posts: 76
    The auto on the 3S is excellent. However on the 3I if there are two people in the car and the A/C is on the AT is painfully slow to downshift.
  • creakid1creakid1 Posts: 2,032
    edited April 2011
    I was driving an '09 Mazda 3i 4-sp auto. Boy, that was the most sluggish thing I've had for years. While stuck in traffic on the fwy, I merged into the carpool lane w/ the gas pedal all the way to the floor, & the car behind me still had to brake -- how embarrassing :blush:
  • babbs3babbs3 Posts: 50
    Due to poor performance and non concern for problems with the 2010 Fusion I have now, I need to ask if the tranny in the new Focus is the same in any way to the one in the Fusion (6Auto,F35)? Anyone having problems with the new Focus.?
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