Edmunds dealer partner, Bayway Leasing, is now offering transparent lease deals via these forums. Click here to see the latest vehicles!
Options
Popular New Cars
Popular Used Sedans
Popular Used SUVs
Popular Used Pickup Trucks
Popular Used Hatchbacks
Popular Used Minivans
Popular Used Coupes
Popular Used Wagons
Comments
Hence my qualification regarding "sporty" and "stick shift". FWIW, depending upon the configuration, the GTI can be had for less than a new Focus Titanium.
True, but minus alot of options. Given similar options, the GTI is between $3k and $4k more expensive. As much as the Focus is described as a premium compact, the GTI is even a step above that in price. Even the regular Golf is more expensive given the options.
Had my first sit down and drive yesterday. A red SE sedan with "Sport Package" (automatic). Subjectively, quality build is abundant through-out, the sedan is more appealing visually than the Hatch, which is 8 inches shorter but appears to look even shorter than that. My test drive revealed a car quieter than my '04 ZTS FOCUS, as the sales rep was in the car and we drove through a fairly congested area on the short drive, very few performance impressions were revealed to me. Interesting observation: the wipers on the rakish windshield are a throwback to the vehicles of the fifties, (they rotate from the center bottom out rather then left -right, back and forth.) Anecdotally, my passenger said that if we should buy this model, she could not see the speedometer, as she could in the older model, in order to alert me that I was speeding.
So, you really want this 2012 Focus now, yes?
I think that is done due to the long rake of the windshield. The Civic uses the same design. I wouldn't be suprised that the long rake would creat a geometic puzzle. Making a left to right design work would probably required an articulating and expensive wiper arm - similar to the single wiper design used on some MB products.
Yes, & the leg room is modified. Euro comparison found occupants in the rear get marginally more leg and shoulder room than they’ll find in the Golf.
The car would be right at home on the narrow streets found throughout Europe, which it was designed for. As I stated, the build quality was probably the best I've seen coming from U.S. assembly plants. Fit and finish beyond reproach.
LOL At 6ft width, its just as fat as the '06 Lexus LS430 sedan! The original Focus, @ 5'7", evaded Japan's old car-width tax, just like the E36 BMW.
That's the whole conspiracy behind it -- auto makers are not stupid. If the leg room is sufficient, then there's no need for consumers to buy any sedan more expensive then this agile yet refined Focus.
Why do you think the Lexus IS also has no rear leg room? They need to sell their LS460 sedan. That's why their GS sedan, which used to have supreme rear seating & a cushy ride...not any more!
I wouldn't call wide fat because wider is better when it comes to handling. A Lexus LF-A is 74.6" wide and a Ferrari 458 Italia is 76.3" wide. Both are cars with big engines and relatively low curb weights.
Having slightly more width & much less height in order to handle better is no big deal, especially if the ride comfort is also no better.
High center of gravity hurts the ride-handling compromise. Just take a look at the SUV's. The best ride-handling compromise I've seen is the base-model RX-8 w/ std 16"s. It rides softly over bumps while providing the level of handling limit I can't even reach on public roads.
Having SUV-like high chairs in such a small package is what makes the old Golf/Jetta & Focus so great, b/c their FWD car platforms keep down the center of gravity.
By the way, narrow cars like the Mini Cooper & even the tall-&-narrow Focus SVT already provide more than enough handling for street use. The '06 Focus SES also has a pampering ride, unlike its relative Mazda3.
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/03/30/2012-ford-focus-titanium-review-road-test/
The review is pretty favorable, though they do mention the tight rear and the fact that the prominent center console seems to restrict front space.
I'm about 5'6 also, so netranger's comment concerns me a little bit. Then again, I'm coming from a celica, which has a pretty cocoonish cockpit design as well, so maybe I wouldn't notice anyway.
Why do you think the Lexus IS also has no rear leg room? They need to sell their LS460 sedan.
Hm, not sure the IS v. LS is the best example. Those cars seem to be targetting pretty different audiences, regardless of size. I'm not so sure an IS owner would upgrade to an LS simply because he/she needs more space. But I see your point.
Speaking of makers not wanting to poach themselves, has anyone seen any discussion of c platform sharing among Ford's other badges? I know there was some discussion of a new Mercury Tracer based on the Focus platform. I think it's safe to say that endeavor is over.
Considering a top of the line Focus pushes about $30k, fomoco might as well slot a Lincoln a bit above that level.
Many drivers who buy the Lexus IS for the badge, not for sporty driving. That's why the smaller-engine IS250 is also available. When consumers want both the badge & luxury comfort, Toyota knows how to blackmail them by keeping the room & cosseting ride on the LS side.
The first time I noticed this was in the early '90's when Mazda redesigned the 626 & got rid of the stiff/shallow uncomfortable suspension, but also got rid of the roomy rear leg room. Then the "Cabin Forward" Protege came out. It is the roomiest Mazda 3-series they ever built, but the the noisy interior & lack of pampering ride comfort... At the same time, the luxury comfy 929 offered less rear leg room than the Protege :sick: I guess they really don't want to "overlap".
Speaking of makers not wanting to poach themselves, has anyone seen any discussion of c platform sharing among Ford's other badges? I know there was some discussion of a new Mercury Tracer based on the Focus platform. I think it's safe to say that endeavor is over.
Considering a top of the line Focus pushes about $30k, fomoco might as well slot a Lincoln a bit above that level.
Good point! How about a Lincoln Tracer (remember Mercury Zephyr & Lincoln Zepher?) vs Mercedes C-Class 1.8 Kompressor, Lexus IS250, etc.? :P
Welcome to the club of restricted rear leg room...
So after watching a few You Tubes on the new 2012 Focus, which uses Ford's iTouch or whatever it is, is yet another example of new models coming off the assembly line bragging about all their flashy technology, Bluetooth this and iPod that etc etc, yet it too has joined the ranks of yet another vehicle that demands you take your eyes OFF the road in order to do the simplest of chores, like change the HVAC settings. These are crucial controls, and in cars only a few short years ago, a hand could fall blindly to the knob and find the detent spot intuitively and all the while not having taken your eyes off that car in front of you (and the child trying to breach its mothers grasp at the bus stop in front of it, or the impatient idiot beside you swapping lanes every 15 seconds trying to get that 1 car edge in heavy traffic) for even a fraction of a second.
And it's not just HVAC's! Consider ALL the other many many eye draws that forces you to pull your eyes to a display screen (including even the humble 8 button row of LED-lit buttons that in no way can be considered superior or safer than a twist knob with 5 distinct detents) away from the road.
If you are stopped at a light, and using your hands to shade sun reflections to see what the stupid screens say, then at least you are stopped. But we all know that many minutes out of a 30 minute commute every day, is actually spent looking at (not only directly below your peripheral vision in front of you where the speedometer is, but off to the centre) of the dash instead of the bleeping road!
And consumers seem to be eating this crap up like mad! Absolute craziness and irresponsibility if you ask me. On both the manufacturer's and the consumers part. People should vote with their dollars and tell these manufacturers that we don't want anymore distractions in our cars than we already have! If we don't, insurance companies will, with the premiums they will no doubt dish out on more and more of these vehicles that pull the drivers eyes away from the task at hand. It is a relatively rudimentary stat graph that is used to tabulate these incidents. And lest anyone need reminding, the original task is driving the car by looking at the road, not the dash. Imagine.
I hope I live long enough to see these shallow trends of perceived needs inside of our cars, go the way of the dodo bird.
This post is not intended to rain on any parade of a new Focus owner. I wish I could post it in every new car forum that is applicable. (I wish to an even greater degree that every manufacturer would see and read it and take it to heart). It would be in the Cruze and Sonata forums and basically every other brand forum too.
Rant off, :mad: :lemon: :sick:
Sam
You're used to a 1999 Camry... Even the 1983 Camry LE w/ 102.4" wheelbase (shorter than the '92 Civic sedan's) and overall length of only 175.6" got gobs of rear stretch-out rear leg room, & the 2012 Focus sedan doesn't have any! Good luck getting used to sitting in the back seat of the new Focus...
Which one would you suggest?
I'm sorry my point was lost on you. If you have driven a Cruze (and many others) you would find out that you have to look at the screen to do practically anything, and that being on the base car. I'm guessing anyone who thinks about what I said can't live in denial for long if they are really honest about it, but I am the first to admit; the truth hurts.
Sam
Car manufacturers are idiotic enough to seal off the width of the rear-view visibility on sedan/coupes as well! So they can force you to buy their radar "bind-spot detection system"???
If you are stopped at a light, and using your hands to shade sun reflections to see what the stupid screens say, then at least you are stopped.
The soft buttons is what I hate about my newer cars such as the '99 BMW E36 & '07 Focus. I constantly had to do that just to turn on or off the A/C compressor or air recirculation. A '90 Honda Accord even has 2 separate mechanical buttons for "fresh" & "recirculate", or perhaps even A/C "on" & "off".
Did you remember BMW once advertised about their pollen filter -- Even if you blink just for a fraction of a second due to sneezing induced by pollen, you are already traveling so many more yards on the fwy before you see the car in front of you stopping!
You don't need to use your eyes when shifting your stick shift through all 6 freaking gears. The technology was already there. Why design something that requires your eye sight off the road? :mad:
IMO, it is wrong to defend all these distractions in the car that go beyond, driving the car, and especially if the distraction is a prerequisite in being able to actually drive the car.
Sam
I think you're romanticizing it a bit. The 1987 Camry sedan actually had 42.9" front legroom and 34.4 rear, and it was 182" long. The 2012 Focus sedan has 41.9" front legroom and 33.2" rear, and it is 178" long (Hatch is 171.6"). The Camry has 2.2" more legroom added up in both rows, but it's four inches longer.
Those old Camry's crushed like a tin can as well. There weren't crumple zones, air bags, roof crush standards, etc. A head on collision at 30mph pushed the battery in my 1996 Camry pushed the battery from the front corner back to the firewall and crumpled the floor boards inside the cabin. Crash standards have modified the compact car segment forever. They have to meet the same standards of cars twice their size.
Definitely don't buy MyTouch even if you're already a skilled driver.
But is MyTouch mandatory for Focus w/ auto parallel parking? Unskilled drivers do need this feature. If Ford likes to sell this car, they better have this "auto parallel parking" option available even on the base Focus. I'm just glad that the stability control is now standard. I was quite upset when Ford temporarily discontinued this option after '04 in this country when I collected my 2.3 Focus ST super toss-able drift mobile. I prefer using it on unfamiliar corners when the roads get slippery...
But I know I should probably not defend my position further.
(I too really miss the mechanical, simple and lightning fast thump thump of a recirc door control. In todays cars, you can see the dead skunk up the road in front of you, but by the time the recirc door goes through all the automated mazes of presumed 'betterness', you're already wincing from skunk juice).
The best years are history now I'm afraid, until the pendulum has swung and we wake up again.
But one thing that is better in modern cars, is crash worthiness, but OTOH that too is needed to help offset the reasons I raised in my first post. C'est la vie.
Sam
I completely understand what you are saying, and to some degree, I agree with it. I wouldn't have the MyTouch system, but I find the basic Sync system easy to use once you learn how to use it. It can be completely operated from the steering wheel.
People don't often do it, but the first thing anyone should do before getting behind the wheel is RTFM. I'm in IT so I'm more aware than most that reading the manual generally saves alot of time and questions.
Buyers expect technology in their vehicles. Not keeping up with what the market demands is business suicide.
Wait a second here, please. The bold above is what really got my cackles up here.
First, do NOT purport to think you know me or my intentions for any post, anywhere, any time.
Second, what do you mean off-topic? I had just spent over an hour reviewing Ford Focus tests, and decided to share a nagging irritant and what I think should be on everyone's mind in supporting the wrong message to manufacturers of what they think we need. Ford just happened to be among the first to do this, and Hyundai (the under-dog) was quick to figure out they needed to monopolize on this great car-selling tech too, nevermind the lack of safety aspect.
Sam, logging out of this forum, you will be pleased to read
This is what cracks me up. I'm glad you've decided what we all need.
"logging out of this forum"
Great! Now we can discuss the Focus instead of driver distraction.
The short-body '83-86 Camry LE is about as roomy as the '87-91 Camry, which EPA still rated not as roomy as my '90 Mazda Protege, which was rated not as roomy as the '90 Honda Accord. But the Accord actually had the least rear stretch-out rear leg room while the Camry had the most. Head room wise, it's the other way around.
You have to actually sit inside of these cars to confirm the real-world roominess. Sometimes people only measure the rear knee room, but what about the stretch-out leg room, especially for a car as luxurious as the new Focus (which only the head room in the rear is sufficient)? Who would likes to sit in the back seat of a luxurious new Focus w/ rear A/C ducts, center armrest, etc. if you can't stretch out your legs?
Those old Camry's crushed like a tin can as well. There weren't crumple zones, air bags, roof crush standards, etc. A head on collision at 30mph pushed the battery in my 1996 Camry pushed the battery from the front corner back to the firewall and crumpled the floor boards inside the cabin. Crash standards have modified the compact car segment forever. They have to meet the same standards of cars twice their size.
Just as I suspected, the U.S.-spec new Focus has the front passenger footwell already pushed back before the crash. This afterthought change on a Euro-designed Focus from Ford of USA may save its crash-test score, but w/ so limited rear leg room Ford might as well build a coupe version in order not to look bad :P
"
Have you every actually driven a car with Sync or MyFord Touch? Sync is not slow by any means and you never need to touch the radio controls even though they are there, soft touch or not. The steering wheel buttons take care of volume and advancing tracks a lot easier than using the center consol buttons too.
As for HVAC controls you can use the MyFord Touch to manipulate those if you want but you also get knobs and buttons, even in the Focus, if you want to use those instead. No need to take your eyes off of the road to use them either.
I'm not sure what your beef is really because once you get to know it this new tech does make it safer to drive. Sure there are idiots who will play with it all the time but those are probably the same idiots that text message while driving anyway. Some vehicles, like the Cruze and Regal to name two, do have less user friendly setups where you have to hit buttons on the center stack to control what you see on the non-touch screen. Those I can see someone having a problem with and I'm pretty sure they are standard too. At least with the Focus you can opt to not have all the tech.
He is the only dealer to inform me of this and said it's because he is the only one who "does the research" .
My question is why would they list it as a current option if its not available until midyear? Has anyone else heard of this or is he pulling my leg? Dont want to be paranoid but you just never know with most dealerships how much of what you get is truth.
I was originally looking at the Elantra Limited w/out Nav, but as we all know, nobody wants to sell it for under MSRP and most are now finding ways to sell it for OVER MSRP. That's just crazy!
So i've begun looking at the 2012 Focus and even the new Civic, though i cant find much on the civic yet.
Anyone hear of the listed options on the focus being unavailable?
Many thanks for anyone's help!
Let's take a look what happened when Ford of Europe maximized turbo charging on their 5-cyl Focus
2:50 - 3:21
"Now the turbo lag actually works for you in this car, because it it dulls the engine just the way you don't want too much power. So in other words, turn in, off the brake, put on the power, then there's a delay. Meanwhile you just got little bit further the road, go little bit less lock up, so torque steer in that situation feels less. The car's not jumping around on the road like the old RS would be. It's bloody good actually." LOL
And I was not aware that the base Focus comes with redundant knobs. Again I formulated my opinion by the idiot who said all trim levels had it.
The last car I drove was the Cruze and something else that made you have to look at the dash and try to deal with its anything but intuitive set up.
Thank you for clarifying that the Focus allows for simpler ergos.
Sam
I'm driving a courtesy car (RX450h) and the tech package includes a 'joy stick' for the screen.
At first I thought "what junk...how could you use it". But the joystick doesn't spring back to the center position...and you can 'feel' the buttons on the screen. It is similar to a force-feedback joystick. There is resistance and a little bump as you go over buttons on the menu. So when I'm on the Audio menu with the 6 preset stations I could 'feel' all the buttons.
Pretty cool (can't stand the car tho )...
:P
FWIW, I find (other) comments that stem from such a subtopic, sometimes very informative and beneficial/even entertaining at times. Your comments about the RX450h is a perfect example, Ivan. I appreciated reading your thoughts, even if no one else did. Of course I'm not about to be a joy-stick convert any time soon as I'm certain you and a couple of others would/could bet to win on.
Sam
Tall persons are of three types. Those with longer legs than trunks, such as basketball players. Others have shorter legs and longer trunks, while still others have legs and trunks of roughly equal length.
I note that you found the rear seat adequate for a child seat.
It'll be interesting to follow the comments over the next few months to see whether observations of other posters mention similar features either positively or negatively.
I found at least one spot on the Ford website with the notation "Late Availability" for the Parking Technology Package. Here's the link- http://www.quickquote.ford.com/2012-Ford-Focus?redirectPage=Bp2ChooseYourPath&br- - anding=1&zipCode=30114
It makes me wonder if they are still trying to work a few bugs out of the system??? Who knows?
"I was originally looking at the Elantra Limited w/out Nav, but as we all know, nobody wants to sell it for under MSRP and most are now finding ways to sell it for OVER MSRP. That's just crazy!
So I've begun looking at the 2012 Focus and even the new Civic, though i cant find much on the Civic yet."
The Elantra is an excellent vehicle, but the idea of paying full Sticker Price (much less MORE than MSRP) for a compact sedan is absurd! The car has outsold Hyundai's projections and at a rate faster than the plant in Alabama can supply them. So demand has exceeded supply thus far...hence the dealer price gouging! Hyundai recently announced that they'll be sourcing additional Elantras from South Korea to meet the demand. Prices will normalize once dealers have 10+ units in stock.
The 2012 Civic will definitely be efficient, well-built and competent in all the important areas. But I still don't think it will be as good as the Focus and Elantra.
In late summer, Mazda will be introducing the 'revised' 2012 Mazda3 and it has a lot of potential! It will include some expected cosmetic revisions (the smiley-face grille will be toned down). But the big news is Mazda's new SKYACTIV powertrain, which will debut in the 2012 Mazda3. It includes a 2.0L high-compression engine with power similar to the current 2.5L, but with fuel economy to match the Elantra and Focus. With the new 6-speed automatic, they're expecting ratings of 29/39mpg.
Thanks
Only inadequate products have to give you "a lot of car for the $". The new Focus is now in the Lexus IS's league -- no rear leg room b/c the riches don't have to carpool much...
"The Elantra has a harder to dismiss issue in its ride quality. We expected the Elantra, with the longer wheelbase of the two cars, to be the more mature cruiser. Alas, its suspension crashes over potholes and jitters across highway expansion joints. Here's where Ford's experience comes into play. Blue Oval engineers perfected the art of small-car suspension tuning more than a decade ago with the first Focus and have demonstrated that acumen as recently as last year with the smaller Fiesta. The new Focus follows the same theme. Its four-wheel independent suspension calmly absorbs road imperfections that had the Hyundai's torsion-beam rear axle pitching about the contents of its trunk. That experience shines even more brightly when we finally escape the Beltway and find some winding rural Maryland roads. The Elantra is no slouch at cornering, taking fast turns with reasonably little body roll and little complaint from its Continental all-season tires. But it's never much fun, which is where the Focus really distinguishes itself. Through quick switchbacks, its back end feels noticeably more planted, and its overall limits feel slightly higher even though it wears slightly taller-profile Continental all-seasons. More important, we enjoy the Focus more because it supplies that now RARE commodity known as steering feel. The steering wheel in the Focus is a communicative, lively, naturally weighted driving tool. The Elantra's tiller, in contrast, is much more typical of modern small cars - it gets the job done accurately enough but relates very little of what's happening to the front tires....We, however, happen to be vocal backers of the enthusiast lobby, complete with membership cards that read "No Boring Cars." Ford has unabashedly pandered to those of us who care about driving by designing an efficient, comfortable mainstream car that absolutely nails the finer points of steering feel, suspension tuning, and overall driver involvement. Our vote goes to the Focus."
The new Elantra (as well as the next Forte I saw the other day) is just a pretty face. Beauty is only skin deep, but shallow people will take the bait :P
Read ALL the reviews, and you'll find many positive remarks on the Elantra. For example, Automobile Magazine put the Focus and Elantra, together, at the top of the compact car heap. They didn't think it was absurd to do that.
There's really no need to insult people who happen to have different car buying criteria than you do. Maybe someone just wants a small car with a roomy back seat, high fuel economy, smooth ride, and an automatic transmission that goes about its business smoothly, without fuss and muss. Elantra can deliver on all that; Focus can't.
Having both steering feel & comfy ride is not easy, & the Focus could do it since the 20th Century. The latest Elantra is still no match when comes to steering feel. But, come on, at least the ride comfort should & it's not. Even though I think the new Elantra looks way more beautiful than the Focus. & the next Forte (prototype) I saw is simply gorgeous
The Ford Focus used to be a lemon. But later it's got Mazda design engines & no (other) German car can really surpass its reliability.
At such sticker price, yes it's also quite absurd that the new Focus got pathetic rear leg room. I am only trying to justify by saying the Lexus IS has the same problem. But only real driver's cars such as some BMW's can come close to the Focus in terms of driving dynamics & steering feel.
The Elantra belongs to the "roomy Corolla's group", which is in an entirely different leaque. One time, Motor Trend compared the Chrysler Concord & Mercedes C-Class (& Lexus ES300), & concluded something like "If you want room, then take the Concord..." They are comparing apples to oranges. These comparisons are base on pricing, & everything else being unrelated. Would you compare an SUV to a roadster just b/c they both cost about the same? :P
Serious, a fair comparison would be something like "sporty compact notchbacks w/ no rear leg room": Focus vs 1-series vs IS250
Actually, according to Automobile Magazine (which you seem fond of), the Focus and Elantra are in their own league. And the Corolla and all the rest are in a league at least one rung down. I'd put the Corolla at the very bottom of the current compact class. Its hatch variant the Matrix is even worse.
Maybe you need some new friends. I wouldn't waste time on someone who takes shots at my choice of cars. Unless of course they want to buy the car for me. Then they can say anything they want about the car they buy for me. Anyway, they are showing what idiots they are talking trash about the Focus.
They wouldn't buy one, b/c they would be too embarrased to be seen driving one.
No. It's a very nice car but it's no BMW or Lexus in handling, luxury or quality and never will be.
That's what you & almost the whole population think. But an European car magazine shockingly discovered this since...
(p46-51, 11 June 2003 AUTOCAR)
Group Test: Alfa 147 2.0 vs Audi A3 2.0 FSI vs BMW 318ti SE(w/ std sport suspension) vs Mercedes C180K S Coupe(hatchback)
"Individually none is bad, but the general (in)competence level has shocked me because even the best car here doesn't come close to the basic dynamic standards set by the four-and-a-half-year-old Focus Focus. And for the money being asked that's criminal.
But is that valid criticism? You bet it is."
"How you rate the BMW Compact depends entirely on how highly crisp styling rates on your prestige-check list. To me (accepting, as we now must, that a Ford is dynamically superior to them all) it's right at the top of the list;..."
Now, Focus's cheap interior quality is gone, while optional luxury features are flooding... & exactly how plush is the interior of the BMW 1-series anyway? If the new Ford Focus is rebadged as Lincoln Tracer, then I guess it can be more convincing.
A Mini Cooper handles well, but doesn't ride well. Ditto Porsche's. Only the early RX-8 auto w/ non-sport suspension & OEM 16" rim does both extremely well w/ better compromise than any other car, including the superb Focus.
Unless you're stuck in slow traffic pretty much all the time, having great steering feel is much more pleasurable even in ordinary driving. That's why I also collected a manual-steering '84 Jetta in order to feel "the grip of saltwater fishing"
I just don't remember many US auto writers raving about the Focus in ride quality, steering feel or amenities until this 2012 model which is what this discussion is supposed to be about.
Well, that's half right. Not a bad percentage for a hitter in baseball. The Focus hasn't been ranked up high for several years, as Ford let the US model languish while the Europeans got the Good Stuff. But the Elantra has been well regarded for many years, e.g. #2 in C/D compact face-off of 2002 models, 1/2 point behind Protege, and in recent years CR's top-rated small car. Which is where the 2011 Elantra sits now. But CR hasn't reported on the 2012 Focus yet, so stay tuned...