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Compact Sedans

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Comments

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Right. For someone that likes to tell everyone else what they should buy he doesn't even know the difference between a sedan and a coupe. Somebody says they want a sedan and he comes back with "you should try this coupe". For one thing a lot of people will absolutely not get a coupe because they don't like the big, long heavy doors and the crawl into the back for occassional guests.

    This thread is about compact sedans and now he comes up with a 2dr coupe that has a small interior which results in the EPA labeling it a subcompact. Who considers the EPA the final authority? I don't think Ford is marketing is as such and nobody in their right mind thinks the Mustang is a subcompact car......except the EPA. He shoudl try exterior dimensions and see how much it resembles other subcompact cars.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    There's several compact (even sub-compact) sedans with mid-sized interiors per the EPA, including Cruze, Elantra, Forte, Sentra, and even the sub-compact Versa. But these are considered COMPACT sedans because of their exterior dimensions.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The EPA sets the size classes in the U.S. as well as what they are defined as. The auto makers willfully chose to ignore the government regulations. They might be considered compact by some consumers, but they don't actually determine that. The Government does.

    It's simply that the auto makers are making larger and larger bloated pigs and want to make their whales appear as the "new compact" class. Well, I'm not buying it.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    They aren't "regulations"; automakers are not held to a law that says a vehicle must be X size. The EPA size classes are just a relatively simple way to classify vehicles. The classification system should help consumers, businesses, and government agencies.

    Consumers get an easy way to compare vehicles of similar size; businesses and agencies can use the metrics for determining fees (example: tax smaller cars less), internal procurement program requirements (ex: lease compacts for staff, full size for executives/elected officials), reimbursement schedules (ex: compacts are the allowed rental class; employees pay any upcharges to larger classes), etc.

    As to them being bloated pigs, in my case it's a good thing. With my wife currently shopping for a compact, this has been the first generation of compact-ish cars that I can find a comfortable driving position in. Normally the driver seat run out of rear travel & I have to recline the seatback to be semi-comfortable, but now cars like the Cruze & Elantra have more than enough seat travel. I can now leave the seatback more vertical, which is not only more comfortable but is better for spine health.

    If you refuse to buy anything in the "new compact" class, there are plenty of sub-compacts on the market. Fit, Yaris, Accent, Sonic, and Fiesta to name a few.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Yeah, the EPA puts the Sentra, Forte, Bentley and Jaguar XF all in the same midsize class based on passenger volume.
    i
    Bentley - 5456 lbs, 208 in. long, 75 in. wide
    Forte - 2791 lbs, 178 in. long, 69 in. wide

    Would anyone in their right mind consider these two cars to be in the same class. I think of the Bentley as a very large car and I think of the Forte as a small car. I hope I don't get in trouble with your higher authority....the EPA.

    Oh, just for grins, the EPA also consider the Mercedes CL600 and the RollsRoyce Phantom to be compact cars. I guess those manufacturers violate EPA "regulations" by pretending these aren't compact cars. And I guess Edmunds is also criminal for putting a few midsize cars to the right on this page and trying to pawn them off as compacts.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    edited September 2011
    We only want a sedan as the doors on the coupe are just to big and heavy to use. Hard for the wife and since my accident, too much for me also. And sometimes, some of the kids go out with us, so a sedan is just so much easier for the family. And as much as I would prefer the wife to get an Elantra, she's gravitating towards the Accent right now with all the bells and whistles...the nice alloys and the cruise for me. Funny thing now is since my compressor is bad in my '06 Civic, I've been using my daughters Accent and honestly, it's not bad at all for a d d, a little weak on the low end torque when compared to the Civic, but doable. The mileage of the Civic is better, but for the little amount of driving I do now, very doable.

    I do like the looks of the Fiesta and the Focus, especially the nice alloys on both, so will be interested to see how they both drive. Have read that the auto tranny in the Focus is having some teething problems but we'll give it a shot. But what really interests me is the Buick Verano, it looks really handsome and has a nice rugged stance but the price is a bit high but hopefully the lower models will not be to de-contented. I know the lack of trunk opener on the key of my Civic LX was a major faux pas as far as I'm concerned...even my '03 Sentra GXE had that feature. Little things like that piss me off, the mid level cars should have a decent amount of bells and whistles as far as I'm concerned!

    But it will definitely be a sedan in the compact/sub-compact category period. And yes, she will only consider brand new at this point. And why not, she can afford it and more importantly...she deserves it! I'm just hoping her Mazda holds up until supplies get back to a pre-earthquake status, so she can find the color she wants, which will probably be a charchol one. We wanted it on the Mazda but they could only locate a silver one which after a few days, we were quite happy with!

    Again, thanks for all the help here. I am,

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    I did take a close look at the new Cruze (again) after work today, and it's probably the best bet for your money in terms of what it has inside and how it drives. It's much nicer than a Civic or the Mazda 3. And it's less expensive as well, since GM has good rebates currently.

    Reliability should be as good as any import, since it really IS an import from Europe with a Chevrolet badge on it. It looks nice as well, and the red tintcoat is stunning. They used to offer this on a couple of Pontiacs and the Corvette. It's a 3 stage process, similar to how paint was done in the 70s, and the color is a very dark red. Almost burgundy.
  • targettuningtargettuning Member Posts: 1,371
    Concerning the Focus, we rented one not too long ago and yes, the dual clutch "automatic" transmission, while shifing smoothly and quickly, exibited quite a lot of clunks, shutters, and other odd quirks from a dead or rolling start in addition to drifting back on up-hill starts. In addition the radio controls were frustrating to use until a day or two went by and we finally figured out what was what. And the climate control? two full days went by until I finally read the owners manual and increased the drivers side temperature (it is a dual..passenger and driver temperature system). It was at 65 or so degrees and I was freezing. Otherwise it seemed quick and quiet and handled well. If you don't mind your new car making a lot of clunks and clatters from the transmission area every time you come to a stop I guess it was OK.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Sorry, but the Cruze isn't less expensive. Similarly equipped it can be significantly more expensive:
    Cruze LTZ with Sunroof, Navi: $26,265
    Elantra Limited with Tech Package: $23,305
    Neither currently has rebates. Finance offers are about the same. And both are selling well enough that dealers aren't coming down much if any from sticker.

    OK, it's not entirely true that neither has rebates. Hyundai offers military & recent grad rebates on Elantra; Chevy offers neither on Cruze. Cruze does qualify for a few hundred bucks in supplier discounts if you're employee has such a relationship with GM, but it tops out just over $700 so again, similarly equipped high-end trims the Cruze is over $2K more than Elantra.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • wlbrown9wlbrown9 Member Posts: 867
    There is a potential $500 fund match from Hyundai through Motozuma dot Com. I'm using that today if the Elantra GLS I have a deposit on hits the lot. You could call this a rebate of sorts. Program works as it allows you to deposit funds or someone else (granny gifting some $$$ perhaps) into an account you set up at Motozuma. Hyundai will match up to $500 in that. Only drawback is the account has to be set up for 30 days before you can use it. But you can wait until just before purchase to put in the bulk of the funds. More details at hyundaiusa.com search for motozuma.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    One thing about the Cruze is you can find an LS with all the key equipment including power windows/locks/mirrors and A/C for around $14.5k... lowest advertised price on the 6MT (I assume) LS in my area in the recent past. Except no cruise on that Cruze. Otherwise a very nice car for the money. If you can live with a stick. And no cruise.
  • igozoomzoomigozoomzoom Member Posts: 801
    "Reliability should be as good as any import, since it really IS an import from Europe with a Chevrolet badge on it."

    Most of the design work was done by GM Daewoo (oops, I mean "GM Korea") and the engineering was predominantly handled by Opel. But the Cruze is manufactured in Lordstown, Ohio...so I'd hardly consider it an import.
    2015.5 Volvo S60 T6 Drive-E Platinum, 2012 Mazda CX-9 GT
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Wife wants/borderline needs heated seats as she gets very cold very quickly in winter. That alone forces at least an LT2 on the Cruze and a Limited on Elantra. Which forces an AT, though that's fine since she can't drive stick.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Click me!

    I'm well aware of the break-in period, and it sometimes needs 4-5K miles in order to achieve optimum fuel economy with almost every vehicle (I've experienced it with Mazda twice now), and I've seen mileage increase 15-20%. Having said all that, I'm not-at-all surprised that the Elantra is getting disappointing fuel economy, well below their ratings.

    Considering that I've heard from owners of the Sonata complaining about their poor fuel economy on the standard 4-cylinder (and get downright dismal with the turbo-4, especially in spirited driving), I can see that Hyundai has figured out fooling the EPA testing procedures and disappointing owners in real-world driving, something Toyota did very well over the past two decades...
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    something Toyota did very well over the past two decades..

    I've heard a lot of complaints about Toyota(both true and false) but I've never seen a lot of complaints about their real world MPG versus the EPA numbers. In fact, what I've experienced(three Toyotas owned in family) has been as good or better than EPA. My 7 yr old Tundra has alway been right on the EPA numbers and my daughters Camry exceeds EPA and she drives fairly aggressive. Just haven't heard much about Toyota in that regard especially compared to some other brands.
  • mikeystoy5mikeystoy5 Member Posts: 56
    Funny, I'm getting 33-34 around town an 44-45 hwy 2011 Elantra. Maybe some people just need to learn how to get the mileage that the EPA gives any of the manufacturers. If your in town in stop an go traffic, it's affects mileage as well as jack rabbit starts. Same with hwy, if you going to go 70-80 MPH, your mileage is going to go down bigtime. Problem is, most people are always in a big hurry to go nowhere. So as far as I'm concerned it's all bunk. You might also look at the brand of gas your using, some brands, because of additives seem to get better mileage. IMHO.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    Well, if you load them up to silly levels, yes, both cars are stupid choices.

    We're talking about ~20K and under cars for the most part in this discussion, and certainly the OP was. Ditch the sunroof and the NAV (get a Garman for $200 instead of $1200+) and the LT2 is quite a lot of car for $20.5K.

    note - I pulled up truecar and got a price on the 2LT model. 99% of the stuff they list for options aren't required, really, as it comes pretty well optioned.
  • fushigifushigi Member Posts: 1,459
    Why are they stupid choices? For years people have been complaining that non-luxury brands have been treating compact sedan buyers like dirt by not offering features they offer on their midsize & larger vehicles. Now they're offering the features and you call them stupid.

    Just because a feature isn't useful to you doesn't mean everyone agrees with your opinion. Ever since I've started buying new vehicles I've been of the opinion that I'd rather by a loaded car than a less-equipped car that's one class up in the automaker's lineup. If I buy a well-optioned car I'm more likely to own it longer, which reduces vehicular costs over my lifetime. Buying a stripper and trading it in every 3 years is penny-wise, pound foolish.

    Also, why should my wife be penalized by not having features available to her just because she doesn't like to drive larger vehicles?

    Portable navs are a non-starters for us. They make the dash messy and if you don't fully hide them every time you park then you're drastically raising the chances of a break-in. My local police dept. has explicitly warned about theft rates with portable navs. The in-dash nav also includes a rear camera which, while not a necessity, is a good safety feature as we live in a neighborhood with small children.

    My wife could live without the sunroof, and that would make the Cruze about $900 cheaper. It's standard on the Elantra Limited, which is still cheaper than the Cruze.
    2017 Infiniti QX60 (me), 2012 Hyundai Elantra (wife)
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Have you driven the new Elantra? What did you get for fuel economy?

    When I rented a 2011 in Austin, mid-summer, it did fine for FE, in mostly in-town driving with AC at full blast all the time and some heavy traffic (duh, it's Austin). Mid-30s, right in the EPA range for mix of city/highway (although it was mostly city for me).

    The 2011-12 Sonatas I've rented also got FE in the EPA range. I did see 20 mpg on a Sonata on one rental, but that was driving it very short distances for a few days in town, AC on full blast (110 F), and wasn't paying any attention to trying to drive economically. When I took it on the highway @ 70 mph, I got 35 mpg which is right at the EPA number (and the EPA number isn't calculated at 70 mph).

    I have a feeling these folks who complain about FE have little or no idea how to drive a car to get maximum FE. They see 40 mpg highway on the window sticker and figure that's what they should get, all the time. That's not the way it works, folks.
  • mikeystoy5mikeystoy5 Member Posts: 56
    I basically said the same thing in post #233 Backy, thx for the back-up.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    Yes, the LT2 Cruze is what she'd look at since I like/need the cruise control and it has a bit more creature comforts. She already has a portable navi unit so we'd pass on the in dash unit. A sunroof is something she'd pass on...we just want a well equipped mid level unit. I mentioned the Fit to her but not sure if she'll even check it out. I know she doesn't care for my Civic as a d d, she's used it probably 4 times since I've owned it when I needed to service her Mazda. I end up taking all the cars in for service as the two girls start to whine to me when I mention that it's oil change time and my wife would just rather that I take charge of that stuff...she even prefers me to put petrol into it...so I just do it. Gotta keep my girls happy!

    Still trying to get that $50 rebate to test drive the Focus but still having no luck. And when I called the local Ford store yesterday to ask about inventory, was told the mid level model of the Focus and the Fiesta were both not in stock at the present time...advised me to try back in a week or so, so i will.

    Did show her the new Jetta today and she though it was too large but told her it was the same size as her Mazda3. And I think the SE model is the mid level car in the Jetta lineup.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    A nice write-up on the current state of the compact sedan market:

    http://www.buffalonews.com/business/article571222.ece

    The general theme has been echoed by others, e.g. C/D: Civic and Corolla are no longer at the top of the heap, sales-wise (Civic) and otherwise. Cruze is #2 behind Corolla in sales, and Corolla's sales are propped up by a lot of fleet sales. Cruze, Elantra, Focus, and Jetta are new models (although that's not necessarily a good thing for the Jetta) with an all-new Impreza and improved Mazda3 coming soon. Civic is new too but hasn't taken the world by storm, in particular being shown no respect by CR.

    One thing for sure: never has there been a better crop of small cars to choose from. There isn't a terrible car in the bunch (ok, there's some I wouldn't put in my garage, like the Corolla and Jetta, but they're not completely awful).
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    Showed both of these to the wife this morning in a parking lot. She liked 'em both so that's a good sign. She probably would've bought the Jetta back in '05 but the one she liked got to be a bit pricey. She really liked the way the Mazda3 S handled and how easy it was to get in and out of parking spaces, so she bought it. We mentioned to each other this morning how good the car still looks! And the a/c works better than it ever did before too! We're both happy.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    today and drove an LX MT--only one in my area. It has all the basic features I need. Anyway, the test drive reinforced the comments I've read in Town Hall and other reviews.

    Likes: Displays (clear digital speedo, nice info display, instantaneous mpg meter, tach); smooth and simple HVAC controls; good back support for driver; fuel economy (34 mpg per computer for my test drive that included suburban streets and urban freeways at rush hour); decent leg room in back; iPod jack and audio controls on the wheel come standard; well-designed steering wheel (small, good diameter); padded door armrests and center armrest.

    Dislikes: Jittery and fairly loud ride; cheap interior plastics especially on the dash; lack of thigh support for the driver and rear passengers (rear seat is low); single-piece folding rear seat back; small pass-through from trunk to back seat; non-intuitive audio controls; so-so audio quality (4 speakers); no center armrest in back.

    Handling was OK but not as crisp as I remember from the previous-gen Civic. The MT action was OK, although the Focus I drove recently had a smoother shifter and clutch take-up.

    Price (a no-haggle dealer) was about the same as the X-Plan price with current incentives for a Focus SE 5MT hatch with more equipment--and better ride/handling and interior. And about $500 more than the MSRP for an Elantra GLS 6MT--with better ride and interior. And I liked the Cruze's ride and interior better than the Civic's also. And all of those cars have a 60/40 rear seat that I prefer.

    It's not that the Civic is a terrible car, but for my money there's some cars in line ahead of it.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    edited November 2011
    Just picked up a new 2012 Focus rental (without My Ford Touch or Sync) while visiting family in another state. I had a choice between this and a Kia Soul, and opted for the Focus (if it had been the previous Focus, I would have gone for the Soul).

    Positives:
    Satisfyingly solid structure, nice steering wheel. Dash materials are better than cars which cost a lot more - still some actual padding on most surfaces. Engine is fairly refined although I wouldn't say it has a lot of power. Trunk release is nice and trunk is nicely finished with a low liftover. Steering is tight and fairly precise. Nice looking outside with gorgeous metallic paint.

    Negatives:
    Driving position seems too close to pedals even when telescoping the steering wheel all the way out (and I'm only 5'9"). Sits low and I haven't found the height adjustment (if there is one) - need to look for it in daylight. Engine has a bit of a growl under acceleration, although it's not buzzy or vibrating - just a growl sound. Center console is pretty wide so legroom width is tight for the driver. Base seat fabric feels durable but isn't the most soft or attractive.

    Overall:
    Pretty decent car for a lower-end vehicle. Much better than the Corolla I rented last year, although not as roomy. I'd easily pick this car over a lot of other compact sedans, but I haven't driven them all. I still like the Mazda 3 the best among compact sedans.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Height adjuster should be a big lever on the left side of the driver's seat--pull up to raise, push down to lower.

    What trim is this? I'd guess S or SE.

    Is this an automatic? If so how is its operation--is it smooth?
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    Personally, I'm very interested to see what the new Sentra and Corolla are going to be like...the Corolla really needs to be a super product or they'll have a problem. I did sit in the current Sentra, an SL model, and besides the poor dash layout, it was an extremely comfortable seat, much better than my current Civic. I sit on a support cushion from the Relax The Back store due to my severe spinal issues but didn't miss it in the SL seat, it was that good! Hopefully Nissan has studied the disaster of the 2012 Civic and comes out with a superior product. The current Sentra is as dull as dish water style wise...it has no sense of style! And the Elantra has proven that a compact car can look stylish! And hopefully they'll offer a regular slushbox for folks who just don't want a CVT.

    A tall order...maybe but the competition is just that good, these cars need to come to the market place not just as good...but better! Can Nissan and Toyota do it? Time will tell but I am betting that they can and will push the envelope a bit more than Hyundai did! :)

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Height adjuster should be a big lever on the left side of the driver's seat--pull up to raise, push down to lower.

    What trim is this? I'd guess S or SE.

    Is this an automatic? If so how is its operation--is it smooth?


    Thanks for the comments. I'll check for the seat height adjust and find out the trim level tomorrow, as I'll have it for a few more days. I may post another update after driving it a while.

    Yes, an automatic - can you even rent a stick anywhere? Am I correct from what I've read that this is a DSG-type tranny? I've heard that the VW/Audi one is excellent and the Ford equivalent is not nearly as good.
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    A tall order...maybe but the competition is just that good, these cars need to come to the market place not just as good...but better! Can Nissan and Toyota do it? Time will tell but I am betting that they can and will push the envelope a bit more than Hyundai did!


    It will be interesting to see if Toyota ups their game with the Corolla. It's been in Toyota's DNA for decades to have bland driving appliances - not sure they want to mess up their formula, which has generally served them well. Not that I disagree about the Corolla, but a lot of people dont' care - just get reliably from A to B.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Sentra's style... it's funny, when it first came out I thought it was pretty strange looking. But over the years the styling grew on me. At least it looked less weird. Then I wound up leasing a 2010 S 18 months ago, attracted by a killer lease deal. But also attracted by the car. The styling is chunky, but when I'm driving a car I'm not looking at the outside. Driving-wise, I've been very satisfied with the Sentra. It's done everything I wanted of it and more--better FE than I expected, and actually a better road car for long trips than I expected (I've done 10 hours in a day in it without trouble). Very comfortable driving position and seat, clear controls and displays, good basic infotainment including USB, tons of storage with maybe the biggest glovebox I've ever seen, roomy trunk, roomy rear seat for a compact, fold-flat rear seat (really rare in sedans these days), quiet and smooth ride, quiet on the highway due to the CVT (2000 RPM at 70 mph). The only big minuses IMO are somewhat vague steering (electric power steering), a limited dash readout (can show odometer or fuel economy, but not both at once), no remote trunk release, and non-folding side mirrors. The "weird" styling does provide a roomy cabin with lots of head room.

    So in the redesign, if Nissan can tighten up the steering, freshen the interior and exterior styling (now five years old), and bump up the FE, all while keeping the good points of the car including its competitive pricing, I think they'll have a winner.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The default automatic shift pattern in Drive is reportedly a bit unfriendly at low speeds, and some have complained that it upshifts too quickly. In the SE model with the sport package, or SEL or Titanium trims you can shift to Sport mode for a different shift pattern, or use the toggle switch to self-shift.

    Why they used a toggle switch instead of a slapshifter and a manual gate is beyond me though. The only thing giving me pause about the Focus is that tranny. But I also heard there's a TSB for a shift program update, and who knows which cars it's been applied to?
  • crazychasecrazychase Member Posts: 1
    Hey everyone, I was in the market for a car, and the Elantra was on my short list. My friend shared this link on his facebook to help some salesman win some contest with his video presentation of the car. Anyways, I got a couple chuckles out of it, and it actually convinced me to actually drive the car for myself and stop procrastinating. Lo' and behold, I ended up taking one home and I'm now the proud owner of a 2012 Hyundai Elantra GLS in "Titanium." I wasn't local to this dealership, otherwise I probably would have looked this dude up, but I figured since I enjoyed it and it got me to a Hyundai store, I would share it with you guys to help him with whatever the contest is. I guess, just check it out if you want?

    http://youtu.be/cMYRlPOHtNM
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    edited December 2011
    Sweet presentation there and he does a great job of explaining the features. I still think that's the new benchmark for the compact class and would love to have one in the family. Not sure if the wife will agree and it will be for her. I've suggested it and soon, will test drive it. Just put her car in the garage and she's at 99711, so she'll hit the big 100k Probably within the next week, week and a half, so our time frame is a year from now.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    (P.S. The Titanium is the color we'd choose as we're tired of silver.)

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    Here's an update on the Focus rental.

    I had it about 5 days and put 600 miles on it. According to the computer it got 35 mpg average over the whole trip, which was about 85%highway/15% city.

    The suspension is rock solid, slightly firm. The steering is very precise and slightly sensitive/quick acting, though there is not enough feedback. The engine is decent but has a roar on hard acceleration, which sounded like exhaust noise under the car, more than anything.

    The tranny was pretty transparent in operation, although I did notice a slight amount of stumbliness at low speeds. I wouldn't call it a deal-breaker. If there's a flash update it might go away, but I barely noticed it anyway.

    The seat did have a height adjust, I just assumed that lever was for seat recline. The interior quality is better than many cars at this price point. I thought the front footwell was a bit narrow.

    Pluses: suspension, steering, driving position, seat comfort
    OK but not outstanding: engine
    Minuses: tranny (just barely), tight footwell

    It's a pretty nice car for that size class.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    Hosts, when are y'all gonna start a discussion about the Buick Verano now that they are out in the market place. How about starting one in the next few days, please.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    You mean one like this?
    Buick Verano

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
    Need help navigating? kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
    Share your vehicle reviews

  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    Exactly like that one! Thanks. :)

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Nice to have the link but how do you get there if you hadn't of provided the link? The pull downs to the right(browse by vehicle) under Buick doesn't have the Verano listed.
  • Sandman6472Sandman6472 Member Posts: 6,952
    That's exactly why I asked.

    The Sandman :) :sick: :shades:

    2023 Hyundai Kona Limited AWD (wife) / 2015 Golf TSI (me) / 2019 Chevrolet Cruze Premier RS (daughter #1) / 2020 Hyundai Accent SE (daughter #2) / 2023 Subaru Impreza Base (son)

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The IIHS Top Picks for 2012 are out and looks like compacts in general scored very well:

    http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr121511.html

    All the new designs are Top Picks, but the old Sentra missed the cut. Interestingly, the score for the Sentra dropped after 2010 MY even though the design of the car hasn't changed.

    Even some of the smaller cars got on the list, e.g. Fiesta, Fit, Sonic, Yaris. The new Accent and Rio didn't make it... side protection not good enough. Something for Hyundai/Kia to work on.

    Based on this, and looking at the details behind the scores, plus my test drives to date, the Focus SE and Impreza hatches go up to the top of my shopping list. Elantra and Cruze did well on the crash tests also, but I'd rather get a hatch all else being equal. Mazda3 Skyactiv 6MT will get strong consideration, if the ride quality is acceptable (haven't driven it yet). Fit could be an option as it's really fun to drive with a stick and exceptionally versatile, but the noise level inside is a mite high for my taste.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    Keyword search does it - but for the record, we've put in a request for the Verano and other new models to be added to the drop-down make/model search.

    MODERATOR /ADMINISTRATOR
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  • larry6767larry6767 Member Posts: 1
    edited December 2011
    I have a 2007 Sentra that has a starting problem. The car will intermittingly start fine and then I shut if off go into a store or run an errand and try to start the car but it does not start. I give if a few minutes and it will start. I hear the fuel pump kick on.

    Anyone know what may be causing this problem?
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr121511.html
    (same link again)

    It has the Verano listed as midsize, so sorry, it doesn't belong here.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Sorry, but it does belong here. I believe Edmunds decides which car belong where in these discussions....not you. Cars are marketed by manufactures not the EPA and most people consider those to be the categories. Why you are so hung up on what the EPA says is beyond me.

    I explained before that the EPA puts the Bentley Continental Flying Spur(about $200k by the way) in the same midsize category as the Chevy Cruze. Nobody in their right mind would say they are in the same category. One is almost twice the size/weight as the other and is marketed as a large luxury barge while the other is marketed as a small economy car. Why would anyone want them to be in the same size catergory for discussion purposes? Just because the EPA says they have the similar passenger/cargo volume.

    I don't think anyone(besides you possibly) would argue that the Elantra, Corolla, Mazda3, Cruze and the Buick Verona(Cruze based) don't belong in the same discussion category. But the EPA has some in compact and some in midsize. Totally silly. In fact the Mazda3 sedan is compact and the Mazda3 5 door is midsize according to the EPA. Again, silly.
  • dodgeman07dodgeman07 Member Posts: 574
    edited December 2011
    I agree with much of what m6user says about the compact market class vs. EPA size categories. One caveat though. When discussing 5-door hatchbacks they are measured using total interior volume (to the roofline) and that nearly always results in a higher interior volume versus sedans with a conventinal trunk. Even a Hyundai Accent 5-door goes into the midsize class on interior volume but the EPA normally "adjusts" 5-doors down to their correct market class.

    Also, with more and more "large compacts" hitting the road, we might need to redefine what this class of vehicle really should be. The 2012 Jetta at 112 cu.ft. of volume is a good example - as it is significantly larger than a new Focus or Corolla. Almost a size class larger. As other manufacturers build these "mid-size compacts", a new C/D segment may be born.

    The new Elantra and Jetta are family size sedans in Europe. The paradigm is shifting in the U.S.
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
    A reporter is looking to interview midsize or small car owners who recently switched from Honda or Toyota to Chrysler, Ford or GM. Email pr@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, January 5, 2012 with your daytime contact information and a few words about your decision and your experience so far.

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  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The other day I saw a Cruze next to a Volvo 850. The Cruze (Verano/etc) made the Volvo look like it was anorexic by comparison. Sure, the Cruze looks all small and round by today's standards, but cars really have all gotten fat and massive over the last 20 years. To the point where even something like a Yaris is larger than an old VW Bug.

    Verano
    Wheelbase 2685 mm 105.7 in
    Length 4671 mm 183.9 in
    Width 1814 mm 71.4 in
    Height 1483 mm 58.4 in
    Weight 1497 kg 3300 lb

    Volvo 850 wagon
    Wheelbase 2665 mm 104.9 in
    Length 4660 mm 183.5 in
    Width 1760 mm 69.3 in
    Height 1415 mm 55.7 in
    Weight 1330 kg 2932 lb
    Yes, that 850 Wagon is/was smaller in every measurement.

    What really happened is that so few cars fit in the compact and sub-compact categories simply because they aren't being made that small any more. The same thing happened in the 60s, you'll remember. Cars became truly massive to the point where a normal sized car from the 50s suddenly looked like a toy by comparison.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited January 2012
    Upsizing of cars has been happening for a long time. For example, when Accord was introduced, it was a sub-compact by today's standards--just 162 inches long. Now it's nearly 195 inches long--almost 3 FEET longer--and has the interior room of a full-sized car by the EPA measurements.

    The Accord is a good example of a "tweener" car. It's considered a "mid-sized" sedan by most people, but is long and roomy for its class. Another example is the Verano, and also cars like the Elantra and Jetta: smaller than today's "mid-sized" cars outside, but with the interior room of a mid-sized car per EPA numbers.

    As cars have been upsized, our definition of what a "compact" is and what a "mid-sized" car is have changed also. We could continue to use definitions from 35 years ago. Or we could adapt to the reality of today's automotive market.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    The average American has grown a lot since the 60s as well. That was fifty years ago and people have been getting larger. The small suburb where I live has several linemen on it's high school football team that are over 6'4" and weigh close to and over 275 lbs. When I went to high school in the same size town I don't think we had anybody on our team over 6'1" and nobody weighed over 200. It's just a fact that not only have we gotten large in overall size but weight is even more pronounced as detailed in media left and right. Hence bigger cars just to provide room for this bodily expansion. That is but one reason. Could people cram themselves into the subcompacts of yesteryear? Sure, if they had to but that's not the case.

    Another reason is safety impact standards. It's still easier to protect occupants with a little room and bulk around them. You have to have somewhere to put all those crushzones and airbags. And still another reason is that longer wheelbases usually provide a smoother ride than a short wheelbase and most people like smooth rides.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    edited January 2012
    Finally it looks like Dodge will offer a competitive compact in the new Dart:

    http://wot.motortrend.com/2012-detroit-2013-dodge-dart-aims-for-small-car-bulls-- - eye-starts-at-15995-154353.html

    Looks like quite an improvement over the Caliber! American style (hints of Focus in there IMO) with Alfa Romeo underpinnings.

    And I love that Dodge brought back the old Dart name. That was a nice compact in its day, with the ol' reliable Slant Six.
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