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http://www.hyundai-forums.com/t68343-check-charging-system.htm
We bought a Sonata Hybrid on 6/29/11. Since then the engine light has come on 3 times, twice for the fuel tank temperature gauge and the last time for who knows what. The car dealer has had the car all told over 20 days in the 2 months we've had the car because it took them that long to figure out the problem. Add in the fact that we're getting 17 mpg and that we're on the third engine light occurance (the dealer has the car again) so we've started proceedings to get them to take the car back.
My question is, the dealer is telling us we have to go through the Better Business Bureau to file a complaint in order for Hyundai to work with us. The Hyundai rep is not agreeing or disagreeing with this. Is this standard procedure or does the dealer and Hyundai just not want to work with us on this?
"There are some forums that talk about a lot of the TSB's from the dealer dramatically affecting mpg. I've been able to get 37-43mpg about 70% highway (40-45mpg highway flats). Due to your never above 50% charge, I think you need to bring it to a dealership and have them do the TSB's."
We have 7,000 miles on a hybrid and have gotten between 35 and 45 mpg in the 5 months we have had the car.
For sure visit the dealer for the software upfits - I think another one is on the way.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sonatahybrid#p/u/1/Hniy1D6VjJ4
Basically, you start off smooth, giving very little gas, until you reach the speed limit, then you dont release the gas pedal, but back off of it until the ICE shuts off and you run on the electric motor. Pulse & Glide can now be used, you gradually speed up on battery and back out, so you slow down to just under the limit, and this is where you maximize fuel economy. It ticks off drivers behind you though, which is what has given the Prius owners a bad rep. You also need to learn how to read traffic so you can maximize regen time, and keep out of ICE mode as much as possible. Some drivers can get it in a few days, others never do.
Are the gauges suppose to help you stop jack rabbit starts and racing to the stop light kind of things to get better gas mileage?
The large green "EV" light is one easy way to increase mpg.
Try to keep it lit up as much as possible.
Make sure the AC is set to the "econ" mode.
Set the screen to show how the battery, ICE and electric motor interact (graphic with wheels battery, ICE)
Coast.
Brake smoothly for better battery charging.
On interstates, cruise control does pretty good
How do some Prius drivers achieve fuel economy above the EPA estimate of 50 mpg�while others barely reach 40 mpg?
What techniques allow some of these "hypermilers" to consistently break 70 mpg?
In the search for answers, it's easy to get lost in the hundreds and hundreds of posts on discussion forums. The info in this article is the 'Readers Digest' of Prius mileage advice.
link title
I'm by no means an expert in hypermiling. EV uses electric only, you use the gas engine to generate electricity (efficiency losses) then using that electricity to power the vehicle. It's more efficient to directly power the vehicle with gasoline (one less energy conversion).
You probably shouldn't P+G this car unless you're an extreme hypermiler... instead, push it to the speed limit and keep constant throttle (accelerate downhill decelerate uphill). The vehicle will shift itself between EV and non EV automatically. Excess power from the engine goes into battery (eg. downhill) and that power can assist when needed (eg. uphill). You do not want to purposefully keep it in EV though, the electricity is NOT always free energy. I can consistently get over 40mpg now; not hypermiler numbers but I also don't go below speed limit!!!
Test drove several Camry hybrids as well.
Right after purchasing the Sonata, I drove it 250 miles back to Southside Va from NOVA. Display indicated 45.7mpg. Late April so no AC, first 30 miles on I66, then Rt.29.
How'd I do that?
Just watching that big green EV light.
Best segment ever was a 75 mile return trip from Blacksburg after a fill up; when we hit the carport display read 50.5mpg.
The EV light is near the top of the display making it easy to monitor while watching the road.
I have seen electric-only driving at over 65 mph under light acceleration on the flats and downhill.
On the way to the OBX at interstate speeds using cruise you could watch the battery load up past 75% charge, then the EV light would illuminate while the blue arc mpg would peg, followed by the battery charge display retreating. Doesn’t take long.
Battery begins recharging, another cycle begins. All the while the mpg indicator held at nearly 42. This was with light AC and between 6 and 9am; once the temps started rising the mpg dropped into the high 30's
Savings versus former car going in town and back for a total of 65 miles is about twice the MPG and using regular versus premium. At that rate, it does pay back pretty fast.
Key question: The tank holds 17 gallons. At 40 MPG that is 680 miles. Yet the miles to empty gauge suggests I need gas in 90 miles when I have gone 480 miles, suggesting the miles to empty gauge is always conservative and the fuel gauge still shows three "bars" anyway. Do other folks have a reaction to the "range" issue? Also I read somewhere that some can get 19 gallons into a tank. True?
Jack
Lots of city driving may keep you from the 35 mpg suggested on the sticker.
Hypermiler Wayne Gerdes has gotten 60 + mpg on cross country trips in the Sonata and Kia hybrids.
He loves the Sonatas.
http://www.cleanmpg.com/
If you are looking for the very best city mpg, the Toyota based hybrids currently are the best, especially the Prius.
Fusion is actually better than the Camry. I know, I had the Camry and now drive the Fusion. Currently getting 43 in city driving 38 overall, and that is only after having it 2 days. Camry was below that. Prius is a smaller car, so it doesn't compare to the Sonata. I had one of those as well. 48 city 65 highway in the Prius, but it isn't in the same class as the FFH, TCH and HSH. It rides like a small car, drives like a small car and handles like a small car. Take the room of the hatchback out of the equation and it falls into the Corolla/Civic class of cars.
It takes patience to learn the tricks of the Hybrid in order to get the best out of one. There are gauges to help maximize the FE, so study up on how they work and try to drive by those, eventually you will find the cars sweet spot and the MPG will skyrocket. Even a Prius can get 25 MPG if driven wrong.
My point is that the Sonata is not the best performing hybrid in urban settings.
Wayne Gerdes was impressed that the Sonata hybrid was able to power itself electrically at speeds up to 88 mph. He said he thought it would do this going even faster but was afraid to try.
I have seen our car do this at 75mph with cruise.
Toyota based hybrids cannot even come close to this but will squeeze out better mpg in city driving.
Total drive time was 5 and a half hours with an average speed of 57 mph.
AC on for last 200 miles.
Drove thru the Virginia Piedmont till we almost reached the coastal plain; rolling hills and flats!
One of the better segments (distance to empty @ fill up was right around 200 miles) we’ve done.
With just over 7,500 miles, new NVLD, software flashes/upgrades done, and 2nd oil change (synthetic blend) @ 7K, this is encouraging.
Not true.
"The reality is that Ford independently developed its own hybrid system at the same time Toyota was doing its own. The basic architecture of both systems is the same and both are based on the concepts developed and patented by TRW engineers in the late 1960s. When Ford introduced the Escape Hybrid, Toyota went after the Blue Oval for infringing on its patents. Ford had patents of its own on the technology that Toyota was using. Eventually, the two companies reached a cross-licensing agreement that gives both companies the right to build their own systems. Such cross-licensing agreements are common in these kinds of cases, but Ford did not use the Toyota hybrid system. The only other company that uses Toyota's system is Nissan for its Altima hybrid, and they actually buy hardware from Toyota. We continue deconstructing Reynolds' arguments after the jump"
link title
It is similar to the Synergy drive, but Ford does not pay fees to Toyota. The Fusion is a better system than the Toyota. I should know, I drove the Prius and Camry for quite some time and now drive the Fusion, and get better economy than the Camry. Best on EP in the Toyota is 42 MPH, the fusion is 45 MPH. Makes a difference in city driving.
It does surprise me though regarding the Sonata being more highway than city efficient. Most driving occurs in city driving, even out in rural areas, you still do a lot of stopping. Heck the Prius is rated low on the Highway, but I got 65 MPG in it, even though it is designed for city driving. Puzzling.
I disagree with the comment that most driving is city driving though. Some people do a lot of highway driving and the highway testing doesn't mean that they don't stop; it just is less stop and go than the city test method. I used to drive a 2010 prius, got 48-56mpg no matter how I drove it although I did see it drop when I consistently drove above 55mph. Sonata we can see a significant difference, if I drive my normal highway routes I can do above 40mpg full tanks, if I do a lot of city driving or if I get a lot of traffic, it goes down to about 37mpg.
The two systems are fundamentally different; Toyota/Ford/Nissan uses 2 electric motors geared together; you can run the main electric motor to very high RPM even at low speeds to get huge torques in the city. Sonata (and Honda) uses a far simpler method whereby the engine is coupled to the electric motor which is coupled to the transmission. Therefore we can't get the incredible gearing ratios on the electric motor that the Toyota/Ford/Nissans can but we can achieve far higher vehicle speeds on electric alone. Hyundai adds a clutch between the electric and engine to allow pure electric drive. I read somewhere that Toyota actually wanted to do this method when they were making their Synergy drive but the controls systems back then for the clutch was insufficient to get a smooth ride. The simpler method Hyundai uses is theoretically more efficient.
Both Toyota and Ford are using first generation hybrid technology.
Nickle hydride batteries and droning CVTs.
It's relatively inexpensive and dependable (except for the 1st Highlander Hybrids).
Hyundai spent a boatload developing their own hybrid system which was designed and advertised to get better mpg on the highway.
Best "city" option may be the just released Prius plug in, the first Toyota - Lexus - Ford hybrid with lithium batteries.
As for the LiPo cells they use, I sure hope they gave a lot of thought to fire prevention with their packs. A short can cause a Lipo to burst into flames, and they are hot burners too. They also tend to swell when they get hot, so they need to be kept cool, but also suffer in cold weather moreso than NiMh do. The charge on them must be kept above a certain voltage and below a certain voltage, or the cells will be killed. On a Lipo, they will go down fast if not properly charged/discharged. I have some 1 cell 120mah packs for my ultra micro planes, and before I knew it, a few of them died due to poor charging practices. I had kept them topped off without using them and they eventually lost capacity. One I totally destroyed from a crash, it swelled to 4 times it's size and thankfully ran out of energy before it got hot enough to burn. Another I killed by discharging it past its fail point, and no longer holds a charge.
Fingers crossed the Hyundai system keeps track of all that so the packs last a long time.
Formula 1 cars have used Lithium batteries for their KERS for years.
The introduction of the Kinetic Energy Recovery System that will eventually make every future Formula One race car a hybrid began in ’09.
F1 teams may use KERS to draw 60 Kw from the rear axle, store that energy and reuse it by pushing a 'boost' button. The system uses regeneration to collect and store energy during braking and allows the drivers to use 60 Kw (82 hp) for 6.6 seconds per lap.
Also included in the system is a KERS control unit. The battery pack is mounted at the bottom of the fuel cell and in the case of Ferrari is supplied by French Li-ion battery maker Saft.
http://www.gizmag.com/formula-one-kers/11324/
The Sonata Hybrid has been the #2 selling hybrid - behind the Prius - all summer.
A lot of people must be looking for a “highway” hybrid.
I remember early in the Toyota’s hybrid rollout, and especially after the Highlander Hybrids were introduced, when rumors of rescue personnel being killed by hybrid components were common. The info about the Hyundai battery pacs is reminiscent of that misinformation.
A Li-Polymer type battery is used for the Sonata Hybrid. The basic function of the battery system is to store, in chemical form, electric energy obtained either from the engine or regeneration and supply the stored energy as needed. Additionally, it has to manage input and output power based on the state-of-charge (SOC). The BMS (battery management system) performs accurate estimations of battery status and controls the temperature appropriately.
Compared to conventional NiMH batteries for hybrids, the Li-Polymer type battery of the Sonata Hybrid has a better performance in the power/energy density by weight and volume, self-discharge rate, life cycle, cold weather characteristics, SOC estimation etc.
http://www.atz-worldwide.com/index.php?mode=textansicht&articleKey=atzw-010-0462- -7&issueKey=2&volumeKey=2011&smart42SID=s292et2tk0rsnjgi81nqp0c9r3&smart42SID=s2- 92et2tk0rsnjgi81nqp0c9r3
the just introduced Chevy Volt, the new Honda Civic and the new Infiniti M are all using Lithium batteries.
Here is a video, I hope I never see this happen with one of my RC packs.
overcharge failure
http://www.myhyundaiforums.com/showthread.php?t=510
Much more info there.
Especially from CTDude.
Have you had the October updates done yet?
They may solve all your issues as has happened to several other hybrid owners.
We did the recall repair, which was supposed to take care of everything. It did not. Now, our local dealership says we need to take it up with Hyundai directly.
Have you gotten any relief?
Thanks!
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/229-sonata-yf-hybrid/129573-check-charging-system.- - html
Good luck.
P.S.: This is a link to my video of the charging system occurrence which I posted on Youtube a while ago, but I must stress that I have NOT had a problem since it has been repaired and this video will only show you what I experienced prior to the repair and may aid you in explaining it to your dealer or tech working on the car. I know my service manager said it helped him so hopefully it can assist you or anyone else coming here to seek assistance.
http://www.youtube.com/user/sonatahybrid#p/u/1/Hniy1D6VjJ4
http://www.myhyundaiforums.com/11-01-049.pdf
There is a new campaign TI2 and everyone on this site for this issue should return to dealer to get it done it is an important improvement for this issue.
TSB is 01-11-049 and it is entitled HEV HPCU Interlock Circuit Connector Installation.
It replaces 2 high voltage connectors at the HPCU to make sure they have robust connection.
Along with the TG5 Multi-ECU Update that most of you probably have it provides the complete improvement to prevent this issue.
Sorry another trip to dealer but all this took allot of investigation and piecing things together to finally arrive at the best combination of solution which now you will have with the TG5 and TI2 campaign updates.
http://www.familycarguide.com/news/1049730_2011-hyundai-sonata-steering-recall-a- ffects-139500-cars
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/09/27/hyundai-recall-139000-son_n_740371.html- -
You should also sign up on Hyundai's service page to get all the latest information regarding your vehicle:
http://www.hmaservice.com
Good luck.