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So, dare I say this car has some Provenance?
This is what we call a 'back row' car at a true British meet. The person gets respect for doing a good job, but is also reminded that history and tradition have been violated.
You can get a whole lot of attention and "attaboys" by painting candy stripes on a vintage Porsche, but after that, what have you got really?
The British people always seem to be such purists. Much more so than on the US made cars.
It's a nice car but it doesn't appeal to me. It's just so "wrong".
The modified British sports cars run on the same tours with the "purists", no problem, but I've never heard of them winning any awards at a British meet, except maybe "crowd favorite" or something like that.
It's fine to mechanically improve a British sports car....to a point....such as breakerless ignition, or in the case of the MG TC, you can put in a Japanese steering box.
But a different engine, or wrong paint, or boy racer wheels---that's a no-no.
I do acknowledge that you don't want to go very big diameters (Dubs) or really wide.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I would much rather look at a bone stock Triumph myself.
Perhaps if I painted them a satin silver of the proper period color, I could live with them.
I always liked the Rostyle wheels on British cars, but the stock ones are quite lovely:
Yep there are SO many ways to improve a TR6:
or better yet:
I'm somehow not getting my point across very well. In today's world, TR6's are commonly tweaked a bit. Doing so is not a big deal . . . . unless you're gunning for an originality award at a national meet or something. And, if you are, that's totally fine too. Admittedly, maybe deviating from the factory paint color a car was born with is somewhat out of the ordinary (still, hardly sufficient grounds for a court martial), but I happen to love the Diamond White on that TR6 for sale in Arizona I posted earlier. To my eye, that's a tasteful modification. It's not like somebody painted it metal-flake tangerine with purple and green frames with skulls and cross-bones (which I absolutely detest).
Also, British sport cars with Panasport wheels are as common as their highly documented electrical problems. I would wager there's a higher percentage of TR6's running around with Panasport wheels than there are Camaros with Panasports. BTW, I think the wheels on that blue '69 Camaro shown earlier look pretty cool. Again, to me, that's a tasteful modification that can fairly easily be changed back to stock if so desired.
Like I said, we're not talking about desecrating the Mona Lisa here. It's been well documented in this forum on numerous occasions that Europeans are not hung up on having their classic cars being numbers matching. I see very little difference with a TR6 here on U.S. soil. Someone please educate why I'm wrong. :confuse: Keep in mind I'm battle-hardened from having two teenage kids and a wife who frequently point out when I'm wrong. So, feel free to be brutally honest with me. I can take it. :P
I don't mind the Retro-Mod cars either but I perfer my cars to be as faithful to the original as possible.
I want my 1957 Chevy to have a 283 with either a stick or a Powerglide. I KNOW it would run better with a modern "crate" engine and a TH 400 transmission. I know it would stop better and be safer with a disc brake and dual master cylinder conversion.
Yes, I will definatly drill holes and install seat belts.
And, I'll DRIVE it like the 54 year old car it is. I won't throw it around corners and I won't drive it 80 MPH. I'll make sure I allow a lot of room between me and the car in front of me.
As long as the mods can be reversed if desired, I really don't have a problem. Panasport wheels can be swapped out with the factory wheels can't they?
One thing I really don't like are non factory colors on cars but that's just me!
I too don't like too many mods. Colors and wheels are big for me as well, along with weird velour upholstery, odd steering wheels, etc.
Usually the old MB to run away from is one with weird wheels.
So, you can answer this question...if a man (or a husband) is alone in the forest, surrounded by no one for 100 miles, and makes a statement, is he still wrong???
Also, while not a "rare" car, the TR6 is not really a dime a dozen. They only made 94,000 of them, far less than the MGB, and less than the Austin Healey Sprite. Given the low survival rate, I would imagine that no more than maybe 5,000 cars remain in various stages of repair.
Another story...As a kid working in a gas station one of our customers got drafted into the Army and had to sell his mint TR-3 very quickly and he did!
Two days before he was to be shipped out, hs buyer backed out and he had to sell it immediatly! He told me I could have it for 300.00. As a 16 year old, I already had a car or two and I probably didn't have the 300.00 either so I passed.
I also was offered the same 1958 Edsel that Cindy Williams drove in the movie American Grafitti for 200.00 and I passed on that one too. After all, it was an EDSEL!
Back in 1990, i moved into a new neighborhood. About 2-3 years in, I was pushing my son around in his stroller, and discovered a guy about 6 houses up was working on a car.
turned out to be a TR-6 that he was restoring in his garage (just a normal 2 car in a tract house). And he was all-in. stripped to the frame, every nut/bolt off. He even media blasted it in there. Never did see the final product, and have no idea how long it took )or if he was successful), but he was serious about it!
I also came close to buying a TR-7 at about the same time frame. Saw one local (private sale) that was actually very nice. It was a black convertible, "spyder" model. really showed well, and drove nice. Believe it was listed at about $2000. Chickened out on it though.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
now, I think it smacks of a car that would be much better off with an engine transplant. maybe something that didn't blow head gaskets every year or so?
wonder what engine would fit in there (other than a Rover V8, unless that required more extensive mods to make a TR-8).
when in doubt, drop in a rotary. They always fit!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Leave it to the Brits to pick up an engine like that. Amazing that they used that tiny 215 Cubic Inch engine in big Land Rovers for years!
Yep, you dodged a bullet all right.
However, people do *breath* on TR8s to get them to go faster, but really, if you want a faster car, go buy a faster car. Get a Tiger, be happy.
A Mazda rotary would be a good swap. I've seen them put into MGBs and the result was splendid. I've also seen Volvo B18 and B20 engines used in British cars---these are very sturdy engines but really don't perform any better.
Personally I think a TR7 is hopeless and unfixable. It ranks with the Maserati Bi-Turbo as a car a NASA engineer couldn't live with.
I know the engine ears head gaskets. So say you swapped in something reliable like a B20, along with the volvo tranny.
what is left that will kill you? the electrics? Can't think of much else, since a TR-7 is still basically pretty simple 60s tech. Not much power or too fancy.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
e.g.: TR7 FOR SALE---$625
And really, the build quality is so poor. I just don't see this as a viable project. They should save one TR7 for history and just let the rest of them die, if you ask me.
I'm torn as to which way to go. Obviously, a car can be original only once. And, in theory, you would think the market would put TR6's that are as pure as the driven snow up on a pedestal. But, there's a reason why guys modify these things. They upgrade the suspension bits and pieces, drop in a 5-speed (a pretty common upgrade), install an electronic ignition, put in a stronger differential, a better cooling system and fiddle with the engine and wheels/tires because doing so makes these cars drive/ride MUCH better - not to mention reducing the oil puddes on your garage floor and minimizing your risk of being left stranded by the side of the road. And, what's wrong with that???
Specifically, I have a line on a very original, 43,000 mile 1974 TR6 who the 2nd owner has owned for the past 26 years and has babied. The paint is original, the seats are original and they look great. While there have been replacements (ie., carpeting, convertible top, some engine bits), they have been done to factory correct standards. Ok, but how long can one maintain a car like this and still drive it? Eventually, its going to reach the fork in the road (stock vs. modified) with respect to how its restored - at which point I might be better off to go ahead and get one that's been modified in a quality way.
Don't mean to make this longer than necessary, but in weighing the pros and cons above, it occured to me that a 10 year old (or so) Honda S2000 might be something I should consider as a viable alternative. Here's a great example of what I'm talking about - an original 15,000 mile, 2001 model Silver one for $15,500. For that price, you could buy a very decent, but not great (whether its stock or modified), TR6. Plus, you get awesome performance, modern reliability and some creature comforts (leather, nice stereo & A/C) to boot.
Would LOVE to get some feedback on these issues. And, what about $15,500 for this low mileage and very original S2000??? It's offered by a dealer, so naturally I'm expecting a "gasp". But, keep in mind how original it is and its low miles.
But, apples to cantaloupes here. Do you want an old "classic" to putz with, show, etc? Or a newish car to use? A TR-6 would compare to a an MGB, Alfa, etc. An S2000 to a Miata, maybe a late Alfa, etc.
Anyway, my opinion on the originality issue is, if the car is a time warp absolutely authentic museum piece, I would try to keep it that way, especially if you won't be driving it much. But beyond that, I think it only matters if it is a rare/valuable car, unless you plan to get into the "cult of originality".
since this is a TR-6, not a Hemi 'cuda, Personally I would do the under the skin upgrades to make it a better car (tranny, suspension, cooling, reliablity stuff), but keep the looks stock (as in, no cheesy wheels).
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Do stuff that can be reversed easily if you want, and keep the old parts!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
In the event I would lean toward the Honda, I don't suppose you know if your brother in law would be interested in selling, would he?????? I'm serious.
The Honda S2000 requires an entirely different kind of driving than a TR6. The S2000 has little low end torque and to enjoy the car you have to keep it "on cam" constantly. If you don't like attentive, high-revving, frequent shifting driving, then you won't be happy with the S2000. What I mean is, if you are a lazy shifter, this car will torment you. It's like driving a Japanese superbike vs. a Harley. The Harley owner would find the Japanese bike maddening, and the Japanese owner would find the Harley barbaric.
Though he does occasionally get a bug for a 911 turbo or a Cobra kit car, but for now, I suspect he is keeping the Honda for a while.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
I think Shifty's analysis of the S2000 vs TR6 is entirely correct but he left off one thing. I can still squeeze into a TR6 but there's no way I can squeeze my carcass into the little Honda. That may or may not be relevant to your situation.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Nothing like a Miata. That, I didn't fit in at all.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The argument that people used to modify these cars might have been true, but then people used to put V-8 engines in old Ferraris, chop and slam Ford woodies, and make Chevy Nomads into gassers.
It...it....PAINS me to see TR6s modified externally, not because the mods are tasteless (which is, after all, subjective opinion) but because it announces that the person doing it is a-historical. It is, in an innocent way, a kind of cultural ignorance to a snob like me.
To illuminate---have you ever seen a dashing couple dressed in Gatsy-era clothing while driving a 1940s car? This is a-historical. Think of a Civil War enacter wearing a WW I helmet.
I think with some classic cars, your ownership is a kind of stewardship.
I wouldn't hesitate to modify a post '74 car to my liking; surely those are unlikely to appreciate much.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
Now's the time to buy an early TR6. You won't be able to touch 'em in 5-10 years.
You may be right about the rubber-bumper cars, though--they will always languish behind their chromed brothers.
I have a lot more appreciation for the 914 now, than I did then, but I think I'm in the minority... If I were ranking them, it would be TR-6, 914, MGB...
But, if I had to go buy a car from that era with my own money, it would be a 240/260/280Z (2-seater only).
I've got nothing against mechanical upgrades...or, even better wheels, as long as they are close to stock size... Not too fond of oversized wheels, roll bars and big rally car driving lights on the TR-6.
I'm not a snob, like Shifty, so I don't think owners owe the rest of us anything, when it comes to modifying their own cars.. But, that doesn't mean we can't make fun of them.
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I WANT THE STRIPES TO GO THIS WAY...NO, WAIT.....THAT WAY!
I REALLY WANTED A MUSTANG BUT....
I'LL JUST WELD THIS CHROME COFFEE TABLE TO THE FRONT, AND THEN.....
OH WHAT A GREAT COLOR FOR A BRITISH SPORTS CAR---AND I JUST LOVE WHAT YOU DID WITH THOSE WHEELS!!
THE LITTLE KNOWN TRIUMPH /SHELBY GT-350
I WANT THE STRIPES TO GO THIS WAY...NO, WAIT.....THAT WAY!
I don't like them either but I'm pretty sure those were factory OEM or dealer added. You have to remember it was the 70s, good taste was out!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
You don't spend much time in urban areas, do you???...wink, wink...