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TR-6's. Love'm? Hate'm?

2

Comments

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    oh god no, pretty much close to stock exhaust. The "noise" I referred to is not intentional. It comes from the tires and the sunroof buffeting.
  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    edited March 2011
    Forgot to mention that the diamond white TR6 received a "gold plus award" (whatever that is) at the 2010 Triumphest in San Diego. So this car must be held in fairly high regard in Triumph circles. The car has also won other trophies, but those may just be from cruise-ins for all I know.

    So, dare I say this car has some Provenance? ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah, whatever that is. I can assure you that any true British car nut would object to that car, or, since they are polite people, quietly turn their nose up at it. Better check that that trophy doesn't have a bowling bowl on top of it. :P

    This is what we call a 'back row' car at a true British meet. The person gets respect for doing a good job, but is also reminded that history and tradition have been violated.

    You can get a whole lot of attention and "attaboys" by painting candy stripes on a vintage Porsche, but after that, what have you got really?
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm really surprised that car won any kind of an award at a British car meet.

    The British people always seem to be such purists. Much more so than on the US made cars.

    It's a nice car but it doesn't appeal to me. It's just so "wrong".
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The British sports car people are not snobs at all. It's the Bentley Rolls crowd that can get snooty if you molest one of their favorite cars.

    The modified British sports cars run on the same tours with the "purists", no problem, but I've never heard of them winning any awards at a British meet, except maybe "crowd favorite" or something like that.

    It's fine to mechanically improve a British sports car....to a point....such as breakerless ignition, or in the case of the MG TC, you can put in a Japanese steering box.

    But a different engine, or wrong paint, or boy racer wheels---that's a no-no.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363
    edited March 2011
    I guess you could call Panasports or Minilites "boy racer wheels" but I think they are fine and period correct for almost any60s-70s Brit sports car. It's not like they are slotted, chromed Ansons or American Racing/Torque Thrust wheels. The stock wheels are not very attractive unless they're optional wires and those bring a whole set of their own problems.

    I do acknowledge that you don't want to go very big diameters (Dubs) or really wide.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    My thoughts exactly. Panasport wheels on a British sports car are as common as driving caps, leather gloves and Burberry scarves. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The stock TR6 wheels are perfectly lovely but if you want to vintage race, some of the other vintage wheels you mentioned would be a good choice.
  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    I submit that most folks who put Panasport wheels (my favorite, but pick your own) on a British sports car don't do it to go racing - but rather to help personalize their cars. That appears to be pretty common with TR6's at least. I mean, how many bone stock examples can a person stand to look at? After market wheels does not a boy racer make. :blush:
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    If "personalizing" your car means throwing on a set of incorrect wheels or giving your car a non correct paint color, I suppose that's OK if that's what you like!

    I would much rather look at a bone stock Triumph myself.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2011
    I guess if you want your British sports car to look like a Camaro, yeah, they're fine,

    image

    Perhaps if I painted them a satin silver of the proper period color, I could live with them.

    I always liked the Rostyle wheels on British cars, but the stock ones are quite lovely:
    image
  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    If I wanted a TR6 to look like a Camaro, I'd put a hockey stick paint stripe on it along with a set of Chevy SS wheels. I think putting Panasport wheels on a Camaro is trying to make it look like a British sports car. ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2011
    Chrome Panasports on a TR6 is like chrome wire wheels on a Camaro. It clashes like cymbals in my head. :shades:

    Yep there are SO many ways to improve a TR6:

    image

    or better yet:
    image

    :):):)
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    Shifty, you might want to zoom in on the picture of the offending TR6. I think those Panasports have polished rims and painted centers, no chrome. Nice and shiny, though!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2011
    Would be nice to paint the whole wheel but anything is better than chrome I agree.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I'm just waiting for someone to throw on fender skirts and hang a continental kit on a Trumph! ;)
  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    Wow, I never thought this subject would incite such a wave of controversy. OK, maybe not a wave. A ripple? LOL! Gentlemen, it's not like we're talking about an Impala SS 409 or something equally sacred. TR6's are a dime a dozen. Given there is an exponential number of bone-stock concourse-restored examples at every Triumph meet, surely the world has room for a TR6 that varies slightly from the factory color chart or wheels.

    I'm somehow not getting my point across very well. In today's world, TR6's are commonly tweaked a bit. Doing so is not a big deal . . . . unless you're gunning for an originality award at a national meet or something. And, if you are, that's totally fine too. Admittedly, maybe deviating from the factory paint color a car was born with is somewhat out of the ordinary (still, hardly sufficient grounds for a court martial), but I happen to love the Diamond White on that TR6 for sale in Arizona I posted earlier. To my eye, that's a tasteful modification. It's not like somebody painted it metal-flake tangerine with purple and green frames with skulls and cross-bones (which I absolutely detest).

    Also, British sport cars with Panasport wheels are as common as their highly documented electrical problems. I would wager there's a higher percentage of TR6's running around with Panasport wheels than there are Camaros with Panasports. BTW, I think the wheels on that blue '69 Camaro shown earlier look pretty cool. Again, to me, that's a tasteful modification that can fairly easily be changed back to stock if so desired.

    Like I said, we're not talking about desecrating the Mona Lisa here. It's been well documented in this forum on numerous occasions that Europeans are not hung up on having their classic cars being numbers matching. I see very little difference with a TR6 here on U.S. soil. Someone please educate why I'm wrong. :confuse: Keep in mind I'm battle-hardened from having two teenage kids and a wife who frequently point out when I'm wrong. So, feel free to be brutally honest with me. I can take it. :P
  • lemmerlemmer Member Posts: 2,689
    I love Panasports, but loathe chrome wheels. Highly polished is ok on newer cars but often looks kind of odd on older cars.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    I don't think your way of thinking is "wrong" and I don't totally disagree with you. There IS room in the world for modified cars. They just don't really appeal to ME or to some others.

    I don't mind the Retro-Mod cars either but I perfer my cars to be as faithful to the original as possible.

    I want my 1957 Chevy to have a 283 with either a stick or a Powerglide. I KNOW it would run better with a modern "crate" engine and a TH 400 transmission. I know it would stop better and be safer with a disc brake and dual master cylinder conversion.

    Yes, I will definatly drill holes and install seat belts.

    And, I'll DRIVE it like the 54 year old car it is. I won't throw it around corners and I won't drive it 80 MPH. I'll make sure I allow a lot of room between me and the car in front of me.

    As long as the mods can be reversed if desired, I really don't have a problem. Panasport wheels can be swapped out with the factory wheels can't they?

    One thing I really don't like are non factory colors on cars but that's just me!
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,072
    Funny thing, I do throw my fintail around corners and I do drive it 80mph ;)

    I too don't like too many mods. Colors and wheels are big for me as well, along with weird velour upholstery, odd steering wheels, etc.

    Usually the old MB to run away from is one with weird wheels.
  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    "Keep in mind I'm battle-hardened from having two teenage kids and a wife who frequently point out when I'm wrong"

    So, you can answer this question...if a man (or a husband) is alone in the forest, surrounded by no one for 100 miles, and makes a statement, is he still wrong???
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I really don't have any strong objection to different wheels but I agree that bright chrome is completely unsuitable for a vintage British sports car; also, in the case of the TR6 you showed us, so much about that car is wrong that the wheels are the least of my problems with it. Depending on how you look at it, some of the "mods" would be quite difficult to reverse. I find it mildly blasphemous.

    Also, while not a "rare" car, the TR6 is not really a dime a dozen. They only made 94,000 of them, far less than the MGB, and less than the Austin Healey Sprite. Given the low survival rate, I would imagine that no more than maybe 5,000 cars remain in various stages of repair.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited March 2011
    Wow...that's all? I would have thought they made more than that!

    Another story...As a kid working in a gas station one of our customers got drafted into the Army and had to sell his mint TR-3 very quickly and he did!

    Two days before he was to be shipped out, hs buyer backed out and he had to sell it immediatly! He told me I could have it for 300.00. As a 16 year old, I already had a car or two and I probably didn't have the 300.00 either so I passed.

    I also was offered the same 1958 Edsel that Cindy Williams drove in the movie American Grafitti for 200.00 and I passed on that one too. After all, it was an EDSEL!
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    I loved these when I was a kid. Just seemed to be the perfect sports car back in the day. Still like them now, and if I found myself with the itch (and the cash) to get some kind of classic/toy car, it would be high on the list.

    Back in 1990, i moved into a new neighborhood. About 2-3 years in, I was pushing my son around in his stroller, and discovered a guy about 6 houses up was working on a car.

    turned out to be a TR-6 that he was restoring in his garage (just a normal 2 car in a tract house). And he was all-in. stripped to the frame, every nut/bolt off. He even media blasted it in there. Never did see the final product, and have no idea how long it took )or if he was successful), but he was serious about it!

    I also came close to buying a TR-7 at about the same time frame. Saw one local (private sale) that was actually very nice. It was a black convertible, "spyder" model. really showed well, and drove nice. Believe it was listed at about $2000. Chickened out on it though.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well lucky you, that you passed on the TR7. :lemon: :lemon: :lemon:
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    well, based on the few others I saw, this was a really nice one! And i guess a "special" model.

    now, I think it smacks of a car that would be much better off with an engine transplant. maybe something that didn't blow head gaskets every year or so?

    wonder what engine would fit in there (other than a Rover V8, unless that required more extensive mods to make a TR-8).

    when in doubt, drop in a rotary. They always fit!

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  • isellhondasisellhondas Member Posts: 20,342
    edited March 2011
    That "Rover" V-8 is actually an engine used in 1961-1963 Buick Specials. Buick had troubles with them and dropped them after three years.

    Leave it to the Brits to pick up an engine like that. Amazing that they used that tiny 215 Cubic Inch engine in big Land Rovers for years!

    Yep, you dodged a bullet all right.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The Rover (Buick) V8 is a pig, or *was* a pig at the time of the TR8 (the Brits have since bored it out, redesigned it upteen times and it finally was respectable, if gas hungry). So really, any minivan could smack a TR8 silly. This was no Cobra and no Tiger. This was a pussycat.

    However, people do *breath* on TR8s to get them to go faster, but really, if you want a faster car, go buy a faster car. Get a Tiger, be happy.

    A Mazda rotary would be a good swap. I've seen them put into MGBs and the result was splendid. I've also seen Volvo B18 and B20 engines used in British cars---these are very sturdy engines but really don't perform any better.

    Personally I think a TR7 is hopeless and unfixable. It ranks with the Maserati Bi-Turbo as a car a NASA engineer couldn't live with.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    series question, but what are the real problems with it that make it such a bad idea?

    I know the engine ears head gaskets. So say you swapped in something reliable like a B20, along with the volvo tranny.

    what is left that will kill you? the electrics? Can't think of much else, since a TR-7 is still basically pretty simple 60s tech. Not much power or too fancy.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well that's a lot of work to put into a car that is basically worthless in the marketplace.

    e.g.: TR7 FOR SALE---$625

    And really, the build quality is so poor. I just don't see this as a viable project. They should save one TR7 for history and just let the rest of them die, if you ask me.
  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    edited March 2011
    Been submersed in the TR6 culture for the last few weeks. There's quite a loyal and knowledgable contingent out there for these cars and I've been learning quite a bit. In terms of a purchase decision, it essentially boils down to this. Do you want a factory stock, no excuses correct car? OR, do you go the modified route? And, let me tell you, there's a very respectable and well-thought of group who favor the latter - even though I know this group here is quick to dismiss them.

    I'm torn as to which way to go. Obviously, a car can be original only once. And, in theory, you would think the market would put TR6's that are as pure as the driven snow up on a pedestal. But, there's a reason why guys modify these things. They upgrade the suspension bits and pieces, drop in a 5-speed (a pretty common upgrade), install an electronic ignition, put in a stronger differential, a better cooling system and fiddle with the engine and wheels/tires because doing so makes these cars drive/ride MUCH better - not to mention reducing the oil puddes on your garage floor and minimizing your risk of being left stranded by the side of the road. And, what's wrong with that???

    Specifically, I have a line on a very original, 43,000 mile 1974 TR6 who the 2nd owner has owned for the past 26 years and has babied. The paint is original, the seats are original and they look great. While there have been replacements (ie., carpeting, convertible top, some engine bits), they have been done to factory correct standards. Ok, but how long can one maintain a car like this and still drive it? Eventually, its going to reach the fork in the road (stock vs. modified) with respect to how its restored - at which point I might be better off to go ahead and get one that's been modified in a quality way.

    Don't mean to make this longer than necessary, but in weighing the pros and cons above, it occured to me that a 10 year old (or so) Honda S2000 might be something I should consider as a viable alternative. Here's a great example of what I'm talking about - an original 15,000 mile, 2001 model Silver one for $15,500. For that price, you could buy a very decent, but not great (whether its stock or modified), TR6. Plus, you get awesome performance, modern reliability and some creature comforts (leather, nice stereo & A/C) to boot.

    Would LOVE to get some feedback on these issues. And, what about $15,500 for this low mileage and very original S2000??? It's offered by a dealer, so naturally I'm expecting a "gasp". But, keep in mind how original it is and its low miles.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    My BIL has a 1st year model S2000 (one of the first in the US), that is probably even nicer. Absolutely looks like new. Stored winters, almost never sees rain, perfectly maintained. Not sure the miles, but they are low. I drove it when he first got it, and it is a very fun car.

    But, apples to cantaloupes here. Do you want an old "classic" to putz with, show, etc? Or a newish car to use? A TR-6 would compare to a an MGB, Alfa, etc. An S2000 to a Miata, maybe a late Alfa, etc.

    Anyway, my opinion on the originality issue is, if the car is a time warp absolutely authentic museum piece, I would try to keep it that way, especially if you won't be driving it much. But beyond that, I think it only matters if it is a rare/valuable car, unless you plan to get into the "cult of originality".

    since this is a TR-6, not a Hemi 'cuda, Personally I would do the under the skin upgrades to make it a better car (tranny, suspension, cooling, reliablity stuff), but keep the looks stock (as in, no cheesy wheels).

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  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    oh yeah, forgot 1 point.

    Do stuff that can be reversed easily if you want, and keep the old parts!

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  • parmparm Member Posts: 724
    Your apples to cantaloupes point is well taken. Honestly, that's a tough one for me to answer. If I had an S2000, I'd probaby drive it more such as to work, etc. The TR6 would definitely be used to "putz" around with. Don't know which I would enjoy more.

    In the event I would lean toward the Honda, I don't suppose you know if your brother in law would be interested in selling, would he?????? I'm serious.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,669
    From what I understand, the S2000 is kind of a 4-wheel motorcyle, high-revving, low torque, sounds like the opposite of the TR-6. What do you like?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2011
    I have no problem at all with invisible up-grades to a TR6, but not the boy racer stuff--this is a British car after all. In the same way that you don't put fuzzy dice on a Benz or rally lights on a Cadillac, you don't put oversize chrome alloys on a TR6, nor do you pinstripe it with scrollwork, or put on nerf bars, or body cladding. It's simply blasphemous.

    The Honda S2000 requires an entirely different kind of driving than a TR6. The S2000 has little low end torque and to enjoy the car you have to keep it "on cam" constantly. If you don't like attentive, high-revving, frequent shifting driving, then you won't be happy with the S2000. What I mean is, if you are a lazy shifter, this car will torment you. It's like driving a Japanese superbike vs. a Harley. The Harley owner would find the Japanese bike maddening, and the Japanese owner would find the Harley barbaric.
  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    Not for sale now, and I told him long ago that I had rights of first refusal! Still mad I did not buy his Integra (gsr? whatever the hot rod model was, in a 4 door) when I had the chance.

    Though he does occasionally get a bug for a 911 turbo or a Cobra kit car, but for now, I suspect he is keeping the Honda for a while.

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  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363
    If someone were to put a lot of pizzazz junk on a Healey 3000 or an XK-120 that would be bad but a TR6 just isn't that kind of car. Even back in the day bigger wheels roll bars and extra lights and other boy-racer stuff were commonly added on. It's easy to make the TR6 into a better performing sand better looking car so I say go for it.

    I think Shifty's analysis of the S2000 vs TR6 is entirely correct but he left off one thing. I can still squeeze into a TR6 but there's no way I can squeeze my carcass into the little Honda. That may or may not be relevant to your situation.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • stickguystickguy Member Posts: 50,382
    I seem to recall fitting fine in the Honda. My BIL is a beefy guy, not quite as tall as I am (6') and he never complains. Probably not a good idea if you are very "broad of beam" though!

    Nothing like a Miata. That, I didn't fit in at all.

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2011
    TR6s will be worth more serious money in 5 (easily $30K +), since we have comparable big jumps in value for the MGBs and Porsche 914s---- so these add-ons will only serve to devalue the car considerably. Even today, a stock TR6 will bring more money than a pimped-out one.

    The argument that people used to modify these cars might have been true, but then people used to put V-8 engines in old Ferraris, chop and slam Ford woodies, and make Chevy Nomads into gassers.

    It...it....PAINS me to see TR6s modified externally, not because the mods are tasteless (which is, after all, subjective opinion) but because it announces that the person doing it is a-historical. It is, in an innocent way, a kind of cultural ignorance to a snob like me.

    To illuminate---have you ever seen a dashing couple dressed in Gatsy-era clothing while driving a 1940s car? This is a-historical. Think of a Civil War enacter wearing a WW I helmet.

    I think with some classic cars, your ownership is a kind of stewardship.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363
    edited March 2011
    Pre-'74 TR6s might see some increase in value but they just don't have the panache of an MG-B or a 914 IMO. They're more analogous to 240/260Zs which had much better performance and were highly desired when new yet have languished in value.

    I wouldn't hesitate to modify a post '74 car to my liking; surely those are unlikely to appreciate much.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well we can have a side bet on that---a traditional British sports car with a big six and classic styling? C'mon, It's got EVERYTHING going for it. It's definitely going skywards now that the Healeys are all bought up and restored. Geez, even MGAs are busting $30K and the TR is more car than that.

    Now's the time to buy an early TR6. You won't be able to touch 'em in 5-10 years.

    You may be right about the rubber-bumper cars, though--they will always languish behind their chromed brothers.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    But... I came of car buying age in the '70s..... and, I'd put the TR-6 above either the MGB or the 914 in collectibility...

    I have a lot more appreciation for the 914 now, than I did then, but I think I'm in the minority... If I were ranking them, it would be TR-6, 914, MGB...

    But, if I had to go buy a car from that era with my own money, it would be a 240/260/280Z (2-seater only).

    I've got nothing against mechanical upgrades...or, even better wheels, as long as they are close to stock size... Not too fond of oversized wheels, roll bars and big rally car driving lights on the TR-6.

    I'm not a snob, like Shifty, so I don't think owners owe the rest of us anything, when it comes to modifying their own cars.. But, that doesn't mean we can't make fun of them. :)

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If doing something right makes one a snob, count me in. :P
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    I was only repeating what you said... lol..

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yes I know, and I'm proud of it. All modified TR6s are welcome but they go to the back row.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 234,725
    We really need our winking emotorcons back... ;-)

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    edited March 2011
    So many TR6s, so few time:
    image

    I WANT THE STRIPES TO GO THIS WAY...NO, WAIT.....THAT WAY!

    image

    I REALLY WANTED A MUSTANG BUT....

    image

    I'LL JUST WELD THIS CHROME COFFEE TABLE TO THE FRONT, AND THEN.....
    image

    OH WHAT A GREAT COLOR FOR A BRITISH SPORTS CAR---AND I JUST LOVE WHAT YOU DID WITH THOSE WHEELS!!

    image

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  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,363


    I WANT THE STRIPES TO GO THIS WAY...NO, WAIT.....THAT WAY!


    I don't like them either but I'm pretty sure those were factory OEM or dealer added. You have to remember it was the 70s, good taste was out!

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • marsha7marsha7 Member Posts: 3,703
    " In the same way that you don't put fuzzy dice on a Benz or rally lights on a Cadillac"

    You don't spend much time in urban areas, do you???...wink, wink...
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