Can Honda get its mojo back?

nippononly · June 2012

A 6 speed 2.4 could be interesting, if you want a Civic Si with more luxury features and better seats.

Or a smaller TSX with less features and a softer suspension for the same money. ;-)

stickguy · June 2012

some people like smaller and softer suspension!

but I thought that an I is still going to be less money than a comparable TSX?

nippononly · June 2012

The ILX with the 2.4 starts at $30K, and is available only with the manual as I understand it.

The TSX with the same engine and the 5-speed automatic is exactly the same price, $30K. However, if you are inclined to get the 6-speed manual, you will have to pay $31K.

Still very close in price, and the larger heavier TSX is the one of the pair with the handling, believe it or not. It also has more feature content at that price than the ILX 2.4 does at $30K.

stever · June 2012

"Honda's lowest accrual rate ever was measured in the most recent fiscal year, which was slightly below even 2009's astonishingly low 0.84% rate. Its lowest-ever claims rate was in fiscal 2011, though the most recent year's level was a still-respectable 1.1%."

At Honda, things have never been better, as warranty costs continue to drop (Warranty Week)

Some of these good numbers may be skewed by the product mix, since the numbers include Honda motorcycles and other products, but they are still good numbers.

benjaminh · June 2012

Seems like Hondas, even as they get more complicated, are still very reliable. Good news.

Sandman6472 · July 2012

At almost 32k, am still pretty happy with this car. Did have an a/c issue which Honda stepping up and covering half the price as a goodwill issue. I'm out of warranty years wise but they still stepped up, so was pleased. Will need new sneakers very soon but car still drives like new. Still a happy customer!

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

34pete · July 2012

The problem for Honda is that almost all cars are more reliable now.. The people they have buying Hondas are buying them because they are scared to buy something else.. But as other makes prove reliable people will start to jump ship.

Back in the 90s people like me felt Honda was an engineering leader that was very reliable. Now they are just reliable..

anythngbutgm · August 2012

2013 Honda Accord Officially Uncovered! 2013 Accord Photo Gallery Inside

A safe update it appears... I think it'll be one of those that will look better in person than in pictures. Definitely looks like Honda is trying to cover both the Camry/Avalon, Altima/Maxima, Fusion/Taurus and Sonota/Azera again, even more so with the addition of the Touring trim and I'm sure a pricetag to match.

nippononly · August 2012

On the positive side, the 6-speed manual will still be available for V-6 coupes, and also for some 4-cylinder trims...I wonder if it will be an LX-only option from here on out....

It will be interesting to see if they can match Altima fuel economy with the new Accord, now that they are making the leap to CVT. A couple of new model previews made specific mention of how unpopular CVTs are in the U.S., and wondered if that design choice would limit sales appeal. At least the new Earth Whatever engine is DI finally.

bpizzuti · August 2012

It took Nissan a couple of generations to get that CVT right. Generally, manufacturers don't get them right on the first try, and I doubt Honda will be an exception.

anythngbutgm · August 2012

Honda has actually been using CVT's for a while. Their was actually a dedicated Civic HX (1998-200_?)model that was CVT, and while it was significantly smaller than the new Accord, it didn't have much complaints. Also, I believe the CVT's are outsourced rather than designed by the OEM's so I would imagine that the one used in the Altima may actually be the same one that will be used in this new Accord. Then it just comes down to noise isolation which in some applications (like the new Impreza) is a whining, annoying mess. The Altima's that I have driven have been much. much better...

Thankfully, reliability has gotten alot better than the POC ones that were used (and all recalled) in vehicles like the Saturn Vue or the black marked 2003 Murano.

bpizzuti · August 2012

Maybe so, but I'll stick with DCTs and Mazda-designed automatics.

Honda might get some backlash from this unless they continue to offer a regular automatic option.

nippononly · August 2012

I would be tempted to predict that this will finish off Accord sales, already on the decline for a while, except for the fact that the best-selling Altima BY FAR has been the current generation (just about to be replaced), which is the first to have a CVT.

Whatever effect it has, Honda really can't afford to have the Accord redesign flop. But if you look closely at what they have done, it SEEMS as much a refresh as an actual redesign. Will it be enough? The Fusion has been taking off, the new Altima comes out right now, and Camry is still killing all the other midsize sedans (not to mention the new gas Malibu is about to come out and the Passat and Sonata are posting strong sales).

I will reserve final judgment until we see some driving impressions, but I'm not thinking that what Honda has done here will be enough to grab any lost sales back from the other big automakers.

stickguy · August 2012

this is really an amazingly competitive segment at this point.

even ones you did not mention (Optima, Legacy) are solid options.

bpizzuti · August 2012

I test drove that Altima, it's INCREDIBLY sweet, but Nissan forgot to put in a manual shift mode for the CVT. The steering and engine are solid though, and those seats have to be experienced to be believed. Honda's got a serious challenge to overcome there.

benjaminh · August 2012

I'm a Honda fan, but I like the looks of the 2013 Accord. It's classic rather than trendy. Those coupe-like sedans (Sonata, etc.) have poor rear visibility, cramped rear headroom, rear door windows that don't roll down, etc. And all that compromise is for a bit of "style" that I don't like that much anyway. Just like BMW Honda sticks with a form that follows function. And given how most other car makers have now abandoned that look it might just be that the 2013 Accord will stand out from the pack.

I also applaud the availability of a 6 speed manual trans on both sedan and coupe.

And the standard stuff on the Accord is impressive, beating out even the Sonata and the Passat.

Even the LX 2013 Accord is going to have dual climate, bluetooth, alloy wheels, etc. Plus I think handling and acceleration will be near the top of the pack because of the lower weight of the car...

hpmctorque · August 2012

Plus, the soon-to-be-introduced all-new Mazda 6.

bpizzuti · August 2012

SkyActiv vs EarthDreams. One of these sounds like something someone would like to drive.

EarthDreams actually sounds a bit hippy-like, I wonder if there will be brand backlash from the driver-types? or have they all already defected to Mazda and Ford?

nippononly · August 2012

I think Earth Dreams does sound like something a Japanese company would come up with.....the real question for drivers will be whether Honda has turned the Accord back into a driver's car, after years of not being one.....

stever · August 2012

"Honda Motor Co. is ramping up its production capacity in North America in an effort to turn its operations there into a significant exporter of cars and sport-utility vehicles, a top company executive said.

Following the expansion push, 95% of the vehicles Honda sells in North America will be made there, and the region will account for about 50% of Hondas global production capacity, Mr. Iwamura said."

Honda Boosting Production in North America (WSJ)

berri · August 2012

Allegedly Honda is also increasing US design and engineering. That will be interesting if it happens because it will tell the story of whether US engineering skills are part of D3's problems, or whether it is more related to purchasing crappy components and assembly workmanship.

anythngbutgm · August 2012

Nice Updates

benjaminh · August 2012

Looks great. Can't wait to drive one!

anythngbutgm · September 2012

Well, it's certainly....... um. Bold.

Honda Accord Plug-in 2013 : Une neuvième vie électrique

I like it in some views, others not so much. But it certainly isn't "Boring".

stickguy · September 2012

A little Sonata-ish in places.

and at least we know where they assigned the designer that did the front end of the previous generation CRV!

stickguy · September 2012

Did not think it would happen, but I stayed in the Honda family fold. My wife just got a new Acura (an RDX) to replace her Odyssey. I really though we were switching brands on this one, but turns out that is what she wanted.

And I take back all my cracks about it being a glorified V6 CRV. it's not.

fintail · September 2012

I guess now, big gaping alien maw mouth = hybrid, thanks to Hyundai. Nice flamboyant wheels too.

anythngbutgm · September 2012

LOL, no kidding.

As far as the wheels go, maybe they are trying to keep owners from detailing their cars. I sure wouldn't want to go near those for fear that I would slice my hands off!

Not so sure about this one...

anythngbutgm · September 2012

Congrats! The new RDX is a great car, I've seen a lot of them since they came out. I'll be curious about how the ownership experience goes and what sort of gas mileage you see when she breaks in. Please post your findings if you ever want to share. Congrats again.

lemko · September 2012

Yecch!!! I really HATE that grille! Those wheels aren't much better! I'll take dull over weird and alien any day!

anythngbutgm · September 2012

Aside from the Plug in which is a bit over the top style-wise, this new Accord looks really good IMO.

Will be curious to see how the CVT tranny works out.

When an Understatement is a Good Thing

anythngbutgm · September 2012

Close up view of the pizza slicers

Image taken from TOV.

lemko · September 2012

Those center caps look like they could double as Chinese throwing stars.

fintail · September 2012

Those are umm...a special design.

And yeah, love the center caps. Weird.

nippononly · September 2012

is completely anonymous in the worst possible way - it looks boring and it also looks like a melange of about three other mid- or full-size sedans that came to market before it - Taurus, Sonata, something Buicky that I am forgetting.

Of course, boring works for Honda: Civic sales up 106% last month? Or was that for the YTD? Either way, it is proof positive for me that many buyers buy purely to have a transportation appliance. And it will relieve Honda of the "pressure" of genuinely improving their products in the next few years....

anythngbutgm · September 2012

The styling will not be the key point to selling the new Accord, the mileage will be.

Engine: city/highway/combined
2.4/6MT: 24/34/28
2.4/CVT: 27/36/30
2.4/CVT Sport/coupe: 26/35/29
V6/6AT sedan: 21/34/25
V6/6AT coupe: 21/32/25
V6/6MT: 18/28/22

32-34mpg highway for a 270+hp V6 is incredible. Honda is making a strong case that V6's can still be efficient.

link title

benjaminh · September 2012

I think the new Accord looks sharp and elegant.

It's kinda like how BMW styles their cars. BMWs don't look completely different with each generation and mess with success. Instead BMW sticks with a classic design that gives excellent visibility and room. Same with Honda.

Here's a simple test. Can you roll down the rear windows more than about halfway in a Sonata, Optima, Altima, Fusion, etc? No. But you can roll down your windows almost all the way with an Accord. Those other cars all have poor rear visibility. The visibility is excellent on the Accord.

I'm looking forward to test driving one. The new engine and transmission combos sound very nice.

stickguy · September 2012

speaking of windows, my daughter discovered that you can roll down the rear windows in the new RDX all the way. I have not seen that in a car in a long time.

benjaminh · September 2012

Nice!+++

How is that RDX? I like the looks of those....

stickguy · September 2012

nice so fa. my wife really likes it, which is important, since it was a splurge for her!

got 21.5 on the first fill up.

andre1969 · September 2012

is completely anonymous in the worst possible way - it looks boring and it also looks like a melange of about three other mid- or full-size sedans that came to market before it - Taurus, Sonata, something Buicky that I am forgetting.

I thought that about the 2008-2012 Accord. IMO it looked like a combination of Saturn L-series, 2005-06 Nissan Altima, and BMW 5-series. I thought the overall effect was fairly attractive, but kinda generic. Nothing that screamed "Honda".

Honestly, I have trouble getting excited about most modern mainstream cars, but I at least find the Accord to be handsome. The Camry's almost trying too hard to be bland, while there's just something that seems off-kilter about the 2013 Altima's style.

The 2013 Fusion looks like it might be interesting, though.

benjaminh · September 2012

I sort of agree with Andre on this, even though I own a 2008 Accord.

I got it because of the excellent engineering, great manual transmission, amazing features, etc. But the styling on this generation was only so so for me. I'd say the side view is good, maybe a B+, but the back is perhaps a B-, and the front is kind of an ugly duckling C+. It's kind of a face that only a mother could love, but I'm its mother, I guess. But overall I still love the car. Best car I've ever owned by far.

I'd grade the 2013 Accord in terms of styling as being a B+ all around. Much nicer overall.

I think it's the first really good looking Accord in a while. I think it's equal to the sharp looking Accords of 86-89, 90-93, and 94-97. And I think it's better than the 98-02 (which I also owned), and 03-07.

But yeah, Andre's right that midsize cars tend to be kinda bland.

benjaminh · September 2012

If she's happy then you're happy. Good deal!

andre1969 · September 2012

A few years back, one of my coworkers had an '08 or '09 Accord. It was fully loaded, gray. EX-L V-6 model, I think. We went out to lunch in it one day. When we went back out to the car, suddenly I wondered why my co-worker wasn't walking to the same car that I was. That's when I noticed that *oops*, I was heading toward a BMW 5-series that just happened to be the same color!

To which, my coworker said something like "Yeah right, I WISH I could afford a BMW!"

So, based on my experience, I don't know if that bodes well for Honda, or bad for BMW, that at a quick glance, I mistook one for the other!

Honestly, I don't think the '08-12 Accord is a bad looking car. I don't find it ugly at all. Just not very exciting. Heck, a few years back when my Intrepid got totaled, I briefly considered checking out an Accord. And, to this day, I still get frequent emails from that Honda dealer because of an inquiry made almost 3 years ago!

benjaminh · September 2012

Maybe you should check out the new 2013 Accords? For only a bit more than the price of that truck you could probably get into an LX and get double the mpg--and still have almost as much room inside as your Park Avenue....Imho the new gen looks more like a bmw than the last gen, and to me that's a good thing....

stever · September 2012

"Honda is aiming to double its global auto sales to more than 6 million vehicles over the next five years as the Japanese automaker gears up for ambitious growth after bouncing back from last year's disasters."

Honda aims to double global auto sales in 5 years (Detroit News)

benjaminh · September 2012

The answer to the question posed by this thread seems to be:

Yes.

victor23 · September 2012

I browsed through this thread, and I see that the basic premise of most posters is: Honda is still the leader in quality and reliability, but is it enough? I am sorry to say that I have to take issue even with this statement. I leased two Accords, in 2004 and 2007. I also seriously considered an Odyssey, and I was determined to lease a new Accord in 2010 despite its just so-so driving dynamics and some bizarre styling elements. I wanted a car that would be reasonably sized and relatively entertaining to drive, sufficiently elegant inside and out, reasonably priced and economical (maintenance- and gas mileage-wise, good resale, and excellent reliability).

I was surprised to find, however, that not only Consumer Reports was less enthusiastic about the Accord reliability, but that the Accords were vastly over-represented in NHTSA complaint database and at the carcomplaint.com website, and I mean it, vastly, compared to about all other midsize sedans. I then recalled my own experience with two new Accords (20-25 k miles at turning in), and had to realize that their reliability record was far from stellar too: vibration of the front brakes (not fixed by Honda), wrong position of the steering wheel, eyeglass holder suddenly opening in movement right above my head, belt squeal, rear brakes gone at 22k miles on 2007 V6, and, worst of all, rust perforation (also not fixed by Honda). In addition, lease residuals (which are a proxy for projected future resale directly related to projected long-term reliability) started decreasing, below those of Toyota and even Hyundai. I looked then at the Civic (which grew up to the size of previous-generation Accords), but neither Accord nor Civic would acceptably meet my priorities (see above). Also, they did not offer anything remarkable in any other area to make up for the shortcomings. So, regrettably, that was it.

My conclusion is that Honda (and Toyota, which has its share of quality problems) are mostly riding on their previous reputation, but at present are, at best, just average in every aspect, including quality and reliability. The free ride will sooner or later end. Persistent transmission problems across the line up also do not help to boost the Honda perception as a quality brand.

keystonecarfan · September 2012

I thought that the 2008-12 models looked a little bloated. The 2013 model is nipped and tucked at each end, and the mid-section surface development is much cleaner. There was too much going on with the 2008-12 models.

benjaminh · September 2012

I think Honda has made and still makes excellent cars.

I'm 47, and I've been driving since I was 15 and half. In that time I've driven extensively a 1966 VW Bug, a 1969 VW Bus, a 1979 Datsun/Nissan 210, a 1986 Mazda B2000, a 1978 Chevy Caprice, a 1987 VW Jetta, a 1988 Oldsmobile 98, a 2000 Ford Focus ZTS, a 2002 Accord LX, and a 2008 Accord EXL navi.

The last two cars, the Hondas, were better in almost every way than the other cars I've driven, esp. when it comes to reliability and quality.

The 2008 Accord is dramatically better than the quite good 2002 Accord we used to own. I'm expecting that the 2013 Accord we are planning to buy is also going to be better than the 2008 by quite a bit in several areas.

There's a reason most Honda buyers are loyal to the brand.

Just my 2 cents.

Can Honda get its mojo back?

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