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Comments
it remains too early to see how good my mileage is, especially without having tanked it up myself and not knowing even if the first tank is a fair representation since i won't know how full the dealer filled up my tank.
but if the onboard computer is any indication, i'm happy enough with my mileage. with some fun exploratory driving today (some highway and some twisty backroads), my mileage over the first 190+ miles is 31.2 mpg.
btw, i confirmed just a moment ago that i have the drain port right since i shined a headlamp under there and saw the same NA and Ft you have in your photo.
thanks again for your help.
I think when I look at the display my average speed over a tankful is typically 36-38 MPH. As a comparison I was getting about 20 MPG on my 06 Outback 3.0 so I am feeling pretty good about the mileage so far.
At first I thought it might be rather lame but I have grown to like the fuel economy needle, whatever the correct term is. It may be changing my driving style but I guess that is good.
hmmm. i can try (and hopefully be brief) but remember, i've only had the car for less than a week. yet, i think i can break this into two things.
Purchasing:
- make sure you know your pricing before negotiating a deal. don't be afraid to not have this figured out before going to the dealer, but don't get roped into talking pricing with them until you know what you should pay. it will depend on your local market, but for eg, in our SF Bay Area (CA), i paid $600 below invoice for my Limited HB, while someone else paid $1000 below invoice (he had a few accessories, so that may have made a difference somewhat since i'm still not exactly clear on what the dealer cost is since holdback, i thought was 3%).
- the Hatchback impreza's are in high demand and if you have particular wants (color,options), be prepared for anything from a 4-12 week wait. the good news with that is that at least around here, they are willing to give you a better pricing because the car will never take up any room on their lot.
The Car (hopefully others can chime in):
- some have complained about poor mileage. it remains to be seen if there is an issue through all cars, some cars, winter gas mixes, colder temperatures coming into play. you'll see on this forum that mileage is all over the place. for me, it's been good in my short time of ownership but time will tell.
- depending on what you are coming from, the "power" will be more than enough or feel sluggish. i think this car has been tested in the 9 sec range for the CVT and mid 8's for the manual with someone stating they got under 9 sec on the CVT by "manually" shifting using the paddle shifters. for me, the car's acceleration is more than adequate, but it's only me and my wife in the car. if you have a fully loaded car with 4 people and luggage and hills, you may feel differently. you can probably figure out some of this on your test drive. i came from a honda civic that could do 0-60 in the low 8's and it did seem a bit sluggish in the mountains with 4 full adults, but still functional. i personally am willing to sacrifice some power to get good mileage. it's all a matter of priorities. (i might feel differently if i lived in Colorado or something...it really depends on what you mean by "hilly terrain.")
- fit and finish is very good, IMHO. as good or better than the competition in its size class (Honda Civic, Hyundai Elentra, Mazda 3, for eg)
- the CVT took some getting used to for me since i came from a 5spd, but i'm slowly getting used to it. if you are in hilly environments, you'll probably want to use the paddle shifters some. from what i can gather and i experienced today on a steep hill, the CVT is a bit aggressive in downshifting for you and doing some engine breaking. not a bad thing, imho, but you can override it and go to a higher gear if you want to in manual mode (which has 6 preset ratios to emulate a more standard automatic transmission).
- my wife and aren't big people, so even with kids on the way (wife pregnant right now), i know the car will be more than big enough for us and the family.
i'm not sure what else to say. i'm sure if you have some specific questions, people more experienced (have had the car longer) can comment more than i can. overall, i'm pleased with my purchase and don't really anticipate that changing after having had the chance to go for a drive, for the sake of driving today. it handle a twisty road quite well and i was content knowing i can use the paddle shifters when driving on hilly mountainous roads for better control (i miss my stick, but my wife wanted to be able to drive this car)
best bet: just go and test drive it and plan on having that experience without needing to buy the car that day. you and your wife can test drive the Impreza and the Legacy and plan on going home to discuss the cars' merits in the comfort of your home without any salesperson breathing down your neck. at least that's what i'd do. ;
If you look at the sedan for each, then the trunk is going to feel tighter with the Impreza, but if you consider the hatch option, you'll actually gain quite a bit of usable cargo volume over the Legacy. You can't go wrong with either choice, though. They're just different.
One more thing to consider: Subaru will be updating the Legacy motor next year using the one from the Forester (a good upgrade with a timing chain and more useful power curve). If I were buying a Legacy or Outback I'd personally wait for the update.
I use the Impreza for my daily commute, but we will also use it for short family trips and going to school. With 2 teenagers and a 9 year old it fills up fast. Kids prefer the 2012 backseat of the Premium because it doesn't have to fold down arm rest in the backseat. The center seat in the back is actually comforable.
We have a 50 mile trip to the grandparents today with the three kids. Here is to hoping there are few arguments and "she touched me!".
Per CR the Impreza is marginally better:
It goes 0-60 mph in 9.2 s, the Legacy does that in 9.7 s;
The Impreza has 148 hp w/ 2.0L, has ~3000lb of weight, the Legacy has 170hp w/ 2.5L and has ~3400lb of weight.
The Impreza stops in 129ft for 60-0mph on dry pavement, vs 139ft for Legacy, and is slightly better on wet pavement as well.
The Legacy, though, is less noisy than an Impreza, and there is more seating room in the Legacy cabin, though Impreza is comfy enough. With the hatchback option, Impreza can get to more cargo space.
So all else being equal, would rate an Impreza Hatchback slightly more capable and possibly more fun to drive compared to the Legacy, while the latter will likely be the more refined option compared to an Impreza sedan.
How much snow is too much snow for this car? The Pacifica with AWD is awesome in the snow. It is just well balanced. I am sure the Impreza or the Legacy will be even better with better technology and experience with the AWD.
If anyone lives in an area that gets alot of snow regularly I would love to get your opinion of the performance in snow. At a point, you just start to plow the snow because of the clearance.
It sounds like the back seat is a big improvement over previous years. We have a 5 and an 8 year old. Maybe another in a year or so. Will there be enough room for a carseat and 2 kids in the back?
Im sure the mileage will be superior to our current mileage. It would be an awesome feeling to know that the savings in gas, will be making the car payment for us.
Anyone have Mileage estimates for hilly terrain being 1/3 of their daily driving?
I have already nailed down a good price for a legacy we really liked (before we started to seriously consider the Impreza sedan). For the 2012 Subaru Legacy 2.5i Limited with sunroof and Navigation I got a price of $26,600. Seemed alot better than many of the other quotes I had gotten. What is a good price for a similarly equiped Impreza?
I plan to have the financing already taken care of before I ever talk to a salesman. I will have the price nailed down too. And I am not in a giant hurry. If they give me the run around I am prepaired to just leave.
So one more question. Does the Impreza have enough power to pass other cars say in a passing lane on a mountain Highway? We often take a trip over to the other side of the Mountains and often get behind motor homes. When the passing lane comes up it is almost always on a slope. What is your experience passing other cars while at highway speeds while going up hill? These questions are really towards anyone. So feel free to chime in.
Thanks
again, markets vary. i think one can get one of the better deals where i am based what i have surveyed here. as i said, i paid $622 below invoice for the base car. also, from what i remember, the navi/sunroof package cost $1776.
from what i see on truecar.com, invoice is different depending on location, so it's wise to look it up for your locale. if i were buying in my area, i'd be seeking about 700 or so below invoice if i were including that option package since i know they are paying less than $1776 for those additions.
it is a bit unclear to me what the "true cost of the car" is as it seems the table someone posted elsewhere in the thread suggests there is a total of 4% holdback + some additional things the dealer can save...so even though i got nearly 3% off of invoice, i still think my dealer made about $300-400 on my car which to me was fair, especially since it involved a quick and painless negotiation process.
E15 Fact Sheet
Odie
I've owned: 1988 Honda CRX, 1996 Eagle Talon AWD turbo, 2000 Outback, 2006 Audi A4 2.0T, and now my '12 Impreza Sport Limited with CVT. The Imp outhandles all the other cars, with a fairly stiff, well-damped suspension, with little roll. It's much better than the A4, which is acclaimed as a great-handling car. Brakes are excellent, but fade after 3 80-0 back-to-back stops. Not surprising!
Engine performance is *fine* for the class and weight of this car. There's more than enough for winning stoplight drags (1, so far!), and passing quickly on a 2-lane. I recorded 8.41 seconds 0-60, that's from the instant the tach needle jumped off of idle, till the speedo needle was exactly on 60 (which in my car is about 58.5). Add in a couple hundredths for that extra 1.5 mph, and subtract the same for the time the tach started to move, until the car started to move.
Note that that time is in flappy-paddle mode, which provides for much more power at the top of '1st gear'. Auto mode keeps the revs down until you are at 70+ mph. -That- time is 9.36 seconds... In manual mode, the engine proves to be very torquey at 2000 rpm, and 'gears' higher than 3 are way way too tall for spirited driving. On the hwy at 60-70, top 'gear' is just barely able to accelerate at all. Not at all surprising considering that 6250 rpm in top gear would generate 193 MPH. That's one hundred NINETY three.
Driving more gently than most people are capable of will have the CVT upshift to top ratio at 30-35 mph, and it does this very aggressively, which kills accel, and is annoying. Giving a bit more throttle will keep that upshift away thru 40, where the engine is a bit more capable of pulling. This is the ONLY negative I have with the CVT.
The CVT is *perfect* for hilly terrain, downshifting imperceptively to provide all the power any hill could require. I have not noticed the speed-holding downshifts that some report on downhills, probably becuase my commute keeps the tranny in eco-mode, not sport. (Those aren't selectable settings, just references to an article I found online discussing CVT shift stratagies for current CVT's).
Steering feel is fine, not as perfect as a 1000 lb car with rack&pinion... The fly-by-wire throttle pedal is too sensitive. Ride is a bit stiffer than I'd prefer, rebound damping a bit lighter. MUCH better than the rock-hard A4, much stiffer then the Outback.
I'm getting 32.5 mpg on my 40 mile commute, 40% city/60% hwy. I expect this to go up another 2 mpg once the weather is 70+ degrees in the AM. I thing the 10? quarts of oil in the CVT really drag down the MPG, as winter mileage changes drastically as the engine fully warms up.
The CVT whines a bit when cold, and at a specific rpm when warm (around 40 mph for my car). It's always in the background, but not noticable after a few days of driving. The body transmits alot of road and wind noise. The doors and trunk lid are *very* light... No sound absorption?
The interior is BIG, long & wide. The trunk/hatch area is small as a result. I find the interior controls to be fine, especially compared to the Audi's infuriating climate control. I *don't* like that the wiper controls rotate backwards to what I expect, but am adapting to them...
Road tracking is mostly fine, but I will attempt to move all four wheels to a more toed-in setting. The car moves a bit more in responce to wind than I would like, with the rear tires noticably toed-out...
Estimated HP by timing acceleration:
Observed MPG at 30-60 MPH every 5 MPH: (25 MPH = 37 MPG)
I'm really surprised that mpg is that sensitive to speed.
I was hoping that 40+ mpg would be possible at freeway speeds.
You data says to get 40+ mpg, you have to keep your speed low.
For the Torque plot, why isn't the peak at 4200? At least that's what where Subaru specified as where peak torque would be.
Are you using a OBDII scanner to do 0-60 test, and the HP/torque output data?
I too wonder about mpgs at highway speed. My brief driving this weekend of 60-65 mph ( still breaking my car in) suggests over 40 is possible at those speeds. I have no way of logging things to get a glimpse at a real trip but Im sure I'll have the opportunity to test that theory in the months ahead.
M
I'm 240 miles into my car and averaging 31.5 mpg on the computer with probably a 60/40 highway/city mix.
Given what you said about usage, I think you cannot go wrong with the new 2013 Subaru Legacy (as advised by tyguy) - this especially since you do not need the hatchback's space.
Here is the link to a recent review...
http://www.thecarconnection.com/overview/subaru_legacy_2013
All the more info the better.
Thanks for the input.
commute is approx 25 miles at hwy spd of 70-75 and 20 miles of two lane road at 50-60 MPH with a 5 miles of city driving averaging a few stoplights and 35-45 MPH. Hwy driving is some rolling hills and curves......
very pleased with the car in the drive, feel comfort etc....since Im in the car approx 2 plus hours each day for the commute...running either Shell or Sunoco gas...
while a lot of fiddling seems to have gotten the sound to be somewhat acceptable for both ipod sourced material (256 kbps AAC), i just find the midrange very muddled in general compared to what i had in my old Honda (nothing great: Sony receiver with Pioneer premiere + Eclipse speakers).
i don't have a long commute and mostly listen to AM radio (go Giants!) for sports radio during my short drives, but would be willing to toss a few hundred in to improve the sound. people have claimed the issue is the head unit? is that true. if so, that might take a while for aftermarket solutions to become available to keep both the steering wheel controls, USB/ipod interface in the armrest, bluetooth working properly?
speakers might be easier although it looks like to get to the door speakers and in dash ones (i have a limited model) requires quite a bit of disassembly which sort of worries me as i would hate to introduce rattles/creaks to these trims in a new car.
I listen to a lot of sports talk radio, but switched to 95.7 fm, more bay area sports than just giants and niners.
:P
I save my audiophile tastes for the home theater system!
i can't quite get the bass quite right...i think its too broad banded...its either too boomy or thin. i've also struggled to clean up the midrange too as i just find voices muddled in comparison to even my mediocre old car stereo.
but yeah, unless there is something simple, i'll just live with it as in time i'm sure i'll decide "it's good enough."
even as i have fantastic stereo at home, i know some of my most enjoyable musical moments come in a car that is loud, the stereo is poor, but the music is great and timely.
i'm a music fan first, and audiophile second.
an aside: i do have to say that the HD radio, when available is definitely a step up from the sound quality of standard FM.
Replacement is easy. View online guides for advice on popping the inner door panel. The rest is just drilling and screws!
Oh! I also took out the dash tweeters! Too harsh.
upon inspecting the steering column tonight, i can see some of the things people have raised previously:
- cheap cloth covering the opening to the firewall. my honda civic was better with some sort of stiff sleeve that didn't looks so "tacked on" like this cloth is
- the key ring isn't exactly centered
- and finally, it does seem there is some play in the shroud that goes around the steering. not a lot, but enough that i think i could see how it might create the "ticking" rattle when going over a bump.
not sure if others have noticed this or inspected theirs, nor if it's just my hypersensitivity. i know i'm really sensitive to such things as i have had not just dealers, but friends and family say "what rattle?" (or noise) when pointing rattles in previous cars. it's not loud, just annoying once i noticed it.
[funny thing: last week, i was sure i had a rattle in the door panel behind me on the driver's side back seat unti i realized it was my messenger bags carabiner rattling when i went over bumps. i now keep it on the front seat with me on the way to work or put it in the hatchback area...no more such rattle!]
and yes I too have noticed a pleasant difference with the HD radio.....
I saw one review on Edmunds, that they complained after driving 800 miles in heavy winds. My thought was 800 miles and 10?? hours of driving might have the same effect in any car.
1. be sure to check your tire pressures. from what i understand, they always ship them overinflated and if the tech forgets or doesn't have an accurate pressure gauge, you may have improperly inflated tires. after two days, i remembered to check mine and in a cold garage, mine read 36 psi all around. it's supposed to be 32/30 (front/back)....i reset mine to 33/31 as i often do in my car (sort of helps if any slow leaks develop and may give a miniscule boost in mileage without giving an overly harsh ride.
2. check the dipstick. mine came in right at the "high mark." i wouldn't have thought of doing this except for the few posts about running low on oil after 1-2k. i now have a benchmark to go against in the months ahead to see if i'm burning any appreciable oil.
3. watch out for any missed tape/packing material. if there is some sticky left on the windows, it may bake on and be harder to remove later on. my dealer did an ok job detailing my car but definitely a poor job on the windows with tons of swirl and smudge marks and sticky residues from adhesives, etc. side view mirrors were bad, too.
4. if you're inclined: try everything out. i think i've tried most everything out now and everything seems functional. (still haven't tried to warm the driver's seat. my wife said the passenger seat heater worked fine). not sure how i'll test the warmers for the mirrors and wipers since i live in CA
i'm sure others can add other important things including the PDI list, but these are ones i thought might be helpful for you guys, especially 1 and 2 if you haven't thought about it before.
For your mirror heaters, put some water in a spray bottle and spritz it on them. When you turn the heaters on, the water should dry up fairly quick (typically from the center outward).
There is a secret menu that allow for further tweaking of audio settings.
Apparently Subaru has force 2 settings to be on:
Loudness
EQ (Don't know what Subaru set this to)
I don't really like the sound coming out with these setting on.
With them turned off, the sounds seem less muffled and more natural.
I also don't like the SRS processing and turned that off.
With just some normal +bass and +treb, the sounds are quite acceptable now.
Anyway, to get into the secret menu.
Put your key in Accessory position.
Turn off stereo.
hold down '6', and rotate the tune dial at least 5 turns until you see the 'loudness' menu appear.
Let go of the '6' button, turn the tune dial to change 'loudness' to 'off'.
Hold down '6' and rotate the tune dial at least 5 turns until you see the 'eq' mneu appear.
Let go of the '6' button, turn the tune dial to change 'eq' to 'off'.
Press the power button to get out of these menus.
Feel free to try different combination of loudness, eq to see if it suits your taste better. I found both of them off worked better for me.
have you found this cleans up the sound?
the best way i can describe the sound of the unit as stock (even after improving things with the bass/mid/treble settings is that it sounds muddled).
again, i am sort of at two ends of the spectrum: i'm an audiophile who is used to incredible midrange purity on my home system (magnepan speakers) but usually is forgiving for car audio sound. nevertheless, i'm just not pleased with the sound of music on the impreza. it sounds congested.
i hope your suggested secret menu may help. i'm guessing the loudness will solve some issues for me. i find some songs can sound so boomy and the bass control really can't seem to help with it. and with this removed, maybe that will result in a less "contaminated" midrange.
Yes, I found that turning off the loudness and eq clean up the midrange drastically. The default settings caused the midrange to be very muffled.
If you listen to music that's mostly vocal, it was just dreadful.
Now, with the loudness and eq turned off, it sounds lively.
I'm sure it's not close to a home stereo, but at least it's acceptable to me.
If you haven't tried turning off the SRS in the regular menu, I would also suggest doing that. I find that for some music(like pop) SRS makes it better, but for vocal music, SRS cause more muffling. I've opted to turn SRS off also.
Just a reminder, the secret menu is known to work on the limited trim none-nav, I don't know if it works for other models, since there's actually 3 different units for the impreza.
I would think that there are secret menus for the other units, but I don't know how to get to them.
coincidentally, i played with the stereo settings at length, last night, after my wife went to bed and was pretty frustrated by doing exactly what you suggested: playing anything with vocals sounded dreadful, as you say.
i'm not looking for anything in the neighborhood of my home stereo...i just hope it can get a bit closer to a reasonable sound that one would find in a mediocre aftermarket head unit and speakers.
this was a great find, and it's much appreciated!
this was really a significant improvement and i think i can live with the car stereo now. it's not perfect by any stretch, and maybe not quite as good as what i had in my previous car, but its a big improvement from what i had prior to turning off the EQ and loudness. the midrange is much clearer and the bass isn't so boomy and loose.
you and the others make this forum and awesome place to be!
I realized that my instruction was not quite right.
For the secret menu,
The holding down '6' and turning tune dial get you into the version info screen first.
You'll need to release the '6' button and repeat holding down '6' and turn the tune dial procedure to see the 'loudness' menu. Repeat to get the 'eq' menu.
One new thing I found was that from the 'version info screen', you can press the tune dial in once to get into 'firmware update' screen.
So there is potential to update firmware for things like bluetooth, ipod interface, etc
If you press the tune dial one more time, it actually brings up the CAMERA!!!
Well, there is no camera attached, but if you connect it, presumably, it will show the rear view camera on the stereo screen. Currently when I get to that screen, it shows a blank screen, with backup markers. If I press some other number, it turn on/off the back up marker, or brings up different size markers.
Interestingly, in the regular setup menu for 'screen', there is an item call VTR which allows you to choose NTSC or PAL. So it looks like the stereo must have a video input....
Any one adventurous enough to try hooking up a backup camera to the stereo to see if this works? If you search for camera and impreza on ebay, you'll find some cheap back up camera for $19.
It seems a bit inconvient to access the backup camera through the secret menu, but maybe there is some other way to enable automatic display of backup camera when car goes in reverse. I just haven't discover it yet.
Seems like Subaru has all the hooks in place for a backup camera option, but just didn't enable it.
I'm finding this gauge worthless. I try to change my driving habits according to this feedback that the car presents. And while I get decent MPG, I'm finding that what the trip computer says is always 2+ MPG higher than actual. I've seen other people find that their trip computer reports an accurate MPG reading compared to actual fuel usage, although I'm not sure if they are using the MPG meter as their primary data for adjusting driving behavior.
i did see in the NASIOC forums that someone identified the mount point and wire guides in the hatchback that would allow for a rear camera. they weren't sure if it was a carryover from the Forester or for a future use. it makes me think it might become an option down the road, but they didn't fully explore it or dropped it from the option list prior to shipping the 2012's. depending on the cost, i would have considered it.
although quite frankly, i still never get used to using it on my wife's prius when i drive it. but i think if i had it, i'd do some "testing" to see what i'm seeing and then get out of the car to look at where my bumper was, so that perhaps i really could use it to do some very tight parallel parking, etc.
i don't know if i'm slow, but i always find it takes me a while to get my bearings with a new car, whether rental or purchased. i still am not quite comfortable of where the front bumper and rear bumpers are when i am parking/etc. but hopefully, in time, i'll figure it out