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Comments
I'm hoping this will not be a long process to get this thing started. I still may want to see if I have fuel coming up into the TB. There seems to be a cap on a port on the fuel rail where I believe you can hook up a fuel pressure gauge. If I take this cap off and have my wife turn the engine over will I see fuel or do I have to disconnect the line? Or does a faulty crank sensor disable the fuel pump as well? Let me know pal and I'll keep you informed and thanks so much again! (Mike)
I'll keep you posted on how I make out. Later!!
But even if it does start I'm gonna tell my friend that he needs to get rid of this thing ASAP. There's too many other things wrong with this car, after all it is 19 years old. When I was under it changing the CPS the passenger side CV joint boot is GONE and grease is all over the place, so that halfshaft will need to be replaced and his front rotors and pads are really chewed up, wouldn't be surprised to find metal on metal if I took a wheel off to look. He'd be ahead if the game if he just sold it for salvage at this point in my opinion. Too bad because when I took care of it before it really did run great. But sooner or later those other things come back to bite you in the end and it just doesn't make sense to me to keep putting money in such an old car.
Thanks for the help and I'll let you know what happens. Later!
Now after I tested for spark, I put everything back and proceeded to start the engine and a nice sized ball of flame shot up from the TB. My friend told me that the car backfired sometimes when he or his girlfriend would let up on the pedal quickly after accelerating. It didn't to this at all the first time I had it here and all the times I drove it. My Haynes manual says some causes of backfiring are: Mal-functioning Emission system, faulty secondary ignition system- bad plugs, bad wires, or COIL, faulty fuel injection system, vacuum leak at fuel injectors, intake manifold, air control valve or vacuum hoses. What about if the car somehow jumped time? What do you think the main reason is that I'm backfiring and getting flames out of the TB? All emission lines (and I only see 2 from the back of the TB to a port on a vacuum valve(??) right above the starter. All else seems to be OK.
So that's where I stand as of right now. I'd sure like to get this thing running and see if it stays running and let my friend decide what he wants to do with it. I told him at work last night that if I do get it going, he shouldn't put his kids in it till he solves the brake and tire issues. He said he'd be the only one to use it so that's good. Not sure if I'm going to do much with it this weekend except maybe trying to locate a used coil pack if I can. Let me know what you think and I really appreciate your advice as always. Have a great weekend!
Thanks again, Friend. Have a great weekend. I was gonna take a nap, just got home from night shift at 8AM. Later!
I took your above advice and checked the coil and all related wiring and did pull off the wires and check for the spark jumping from the towers and indeed it looked like a 4th of July fireworks show, so I'm fairly well convinced that I have all the spark I need to fire this motor. I pulled the plugs out and ALL of them were very fouled. So electrically I believe I'm where I should be and I'm practically convinced the timing is off.
My Haynes manual gives good detail of what's involved in changing the timing components. I would do the whole job- both sprockets, guides, new chain and tensioner. Rockauto has the complete kit for around $80. Not sure it that includes the lower sprocket lip seal, but I'd want to replace that too. I can tell my friend about all this but it's his dime and he's either going to have to pay me for the parts or order them from ebay if he can. Now that I'm back to work it's going to take me a little longer to do the job, but I believe that if I take my time and not lose my patience, I can be sucessful.
I know that the timing cover was off of this car fairly recently and as I said earlier, the upper head is really nice and clean. Somebody used a lot of blue RTV sealant when they put the cover back on. I can only speculate that the head must have been replaced or off for some reason. Whether the timing components were reused or replaced at that time is unknown. You would think that if it was done right you shouldn't be having a problem, but I did tell you earlier that when I first saw the car at work I heard what I believe to be excessive chain slapping noise from the cover area. At first I thought it was a valve or lifter noise, but when I revved up the engine the noise was definately coming from the timing cover that tells me the chain was loose. Does this make sense?
So that's where I stand now, I've ruled everything else out. Not sure how this is gonna play out at the moment till I tell my friend the GOOD news. If it were my car, I'd think long and hard about sinking more money on a 19 year old car that needs a lot of other attention in other areas. And I know this guy doesn't have a lot of $$$. I'll go looking on Ebay for that timing kit. Take care and have a great day. (Mike)
Now for the good part. When I looked at the sprockets and chain, I noticed the timing marks were off. Also, there was NO CHAIN GUIDE on the right side; the bolts were there, but no guide. No wonder we heard the chain slapping around. Can't believe anyone wouldn't put it back on if it was taken apart, but it was GONE. Wonder if it ended up in the oil pan?
Now here's where I need your expert advise. I finished up around 3PM today, nothing more to do till the new parts come. Right now as we speak, the crankshaft gear is at 12 o'clock and #1 piston is at TDC. But the dimple in the camshaft gear is at 6 o'clock. This is NOT RIGHT, correct?? My manual tells me that they BOTH need to be at 12 o'clock, so right now the camshaft is 180 degrees off. Do you concur with this? The chain was so loose I'm wondering how it ever manipulated the valves at all. It's a wonder the thing didn't let loose altogether and the pistons hit the valves. I think my buddy got lucky there. So when I get this kit, I shouldn't have to move the crankshaft at all. I'll just take the chain off and rotate the cam sprocket to the 12 o'clock position. The manual says that there's an alignment hole that you can insert a small drill bit into so that I KNOW that it's where it needs to be. Also, the new chain will have BLACK painted links in it(the book says they can be a bright color) Now I just lay the PAINTED links over the mark at 12 o'clock with I install it, correct? It says to coat the new guides with moly-based grease, is this OK? Not sure if I have any moly-based grease. I have synthetic chassis grease.
So that's where I'm at as of now. Can't do much of anything until the kit comes. He also needs a new upper motor mount, that fell apart when I took it out. Another $35. Probably won't do any more until the weekend. Let me know what you make of what I just laid out for you and we'll go from there. Thanks again for the support. (Mike)
Well, it seems my efforts to get this '94 SL1 up and running have failed. I checked and double-checked everything I did as I went along and I still can't get this engine to fire, it's STILL backfiring through the TB. I believe I told you(maybe I didn't) but I had the chain and sprockets on last Friday. That installation went flawless in my opinion. I rotated the crank till #1 piston was at TDC. Even used a STRAW in the cylinder and watched it go down and then up, air came out of #1 spark plug hole and then the straw stopped moving and my timing marks on the crank sprocket lined up perfectly. Likewise for the cam gear, rotated it to line up with that small hole and inserted a 3/16 drill bit(Like my Haynes manual suggested) and that little dimple was at a perfect 12 o'clock just like the crank gear was. I put the chain, guides and new tensioner on and nothing moved,so I'm damn sure that the timing is spot on.
Today it was time to re-install the timing chain cover and all related items. I did use that Ultra Gray RTV as you suggested, I thought it worked well. I took my time and checked my work and everything was going well until it came time to turn the motor over. All I got was fire through the TB, just like as before. Yeah, I'm a little bummed about it. I really wanted to help this young friend of mine since now he's having trouble with his truck and was hoping to have the Saturn up and running. I admit I'm stumped. If all is well down below, and you know I told you that one chain guide wasn't there at all, the other one was only a piece of metal, no plastic guide on it at all, so this timing kit was necessary as far as I'm concerned. What should I look at now? I've got both spark and fuel, but no ignition and it wants to backfire. I seem to have done OK changing the parts that really needed to be changed, but still can't get the thing to run.
OK, enough whining. Any help you can suggest will like always be very much appreciated. Thanks again. (Mike)
I think I may have figured out what going on here. When my friend and his girlfriend came down 2 weeks ago Sunday and gave me the money to order the timing kit from Ebay, it turned out that she was the last one to drive the car before it died. I specifically asked her if she heard any noises leading up to the time it quit running. And she told me she DID, a very loud bang, and the car dies. That's when her uncle got hold of it and started to rip and tear with no luck. You remember me telling you what shape it was in when I got it, didn't even have spark.
Lou, I'm thinking that loud bang this woman heard was in fact the piston(s) making contact with the valves. I believe now that the timing chain, which was so loose because of not having the chain guides DID jump a tooth or more and this is why she heard this loud sound and then the engine dies and won't start, just backfire. I think we have a bent intake valve now and THIS is why even after I put that new chain, guides and tensioner. I still have fire coming out of that TB. Would you share this theory with me?
And if this is the case, now the head has to come off, so there's a lot more $$$ at stake here. I'm not too sure I wanna get involved with that. I replaced a head gasket on a Honda I had in the early 80's, but I had the head checked out at a local machine shop. Even back then I think the bill was over $300 and they were backed up with work so the car was down for nearly a month. I told you that this head on this Saturn looks like it hasn't been on very long, it's really clean. But if my buddy wants to pull it off, I'm not sure I want to be involved. Do you just replace the bent valve(or valves) slap on a new head gasket and take your chances? Then there could be worn valve guides, they would need to be pressed out and a new one pressed in, right? The bent valve is probably an intake valve which is why I'm getting fire out of the TB. Let me know what you think of this latest possible cause for this motor. Later!
I left a message on my friend Izzy's phone and he called me around 5PM and I told him the bad news and that in my opinion his best option was to call a salvage yard where they pick up the car and pay you for it, and he agreed. He can't afford to sink any more $$$ into this nearly 20 year old car that as I said before has a host of other issues that would need to be addressed ASAP, like the passenger side axle shaft for starters. It's kind of a shame too, I believe this head was rather recently replaced because it certainly looks clean. I had my valve cover off about a month ago and my springs and such were quite dirty and I have 50K less miles on mine than his. Maybe I should have done the compression right after he had the car towed here, but I was trying to sort through the mess that the uncle made and after I restored spark I wanted to tear that timing cover off and was stunned to find the guides missing and wondered how the thing ran as long as it did.
So that's gonna do it, this chapter is coming to a close. One of the last things I bought for his car on Saturday morning after work was a new top front motor mount. I think we talked about this before. His old one came out in pieces when I took it off the week before. But mine is bad on my 96 so he told me to just swap them out before anyone comes to pick up his car. Now he paid me for it last Friday night, so I'll just give him the money back. I do appreciate all your help with this car, Lou. Take car and may God Bless always! (Mike)
Well, a rollback came here Saturday(10th)morning and picked up my friend's Saturn. They gave him $350 for it which is just what he paid for it 6 months ago. Not too bad, all things considered. And yes, I DO have another Saturn issue probably right up your alley. My neighbor George has an Ion, I THINK it's an '04 or '05,(I can check if it matters) and he told me Saturday while I was waiting for the salvage guy that he's been having trouble with his clutch. Remember when I was having the same issue a few months ago? Well, he tells me that his pedal STICKS to the floor at times, not all the time but it's been happening more frequently as of late. I believe I remember you telling me that the likely cause was the slave cylinder, at least on mine, but MY pedal never stuck at any time. Now today I was at our local public library and I looked through a Chilton's manual on the Ion and went to the clutch section and this model is WAY different from the SL's. They say you can actually bleed the system, and the clutch master cylinder actually shares fluid from the BRAKE master cylinder. Is this correct?
And the book says that to change the slave, you have to take the tranny out? That CAN'T be right! There seems to be a bleed nipple right in front of the slave. I wonder if I should suggest to George to bleed the system first and see if that helps, or would we be wasting our time? Went onto the Rockauto site for parts and WOW, are those parts expensive or what?? In any case, the Chilton's troubleshooting section says that a sticking pedal could be either the slave OR the master cylinder binding up or sticking. Now I haven't had time for a real good look at it, so any info you can give me on this model would be helpful. Were you fond of the Ion's? Let me know what you think. Have a great day!
But now I'm getting a service engine light coming on(and staying on, as of Thursday) and the code # is PO420, catalyst system effieciency below threshold(Bank 1) Does this mean my Catalytic converter is going bad?Or could it have something to do with the fact that this muffler inlet pipe is so bad that there's no back pressure allowed to build because of the leaky muffler?
Could my problems be solved by just changing the muffler? Please advise and as always, thank you kindly!!
Now all it has to do is rain MONEY around here and I'm in business! If the cat is that bad I'm probably going to have a problem getting the car to pass emissions inspection which is due at the end of August. The owner of the garage I go to is fairly lenient, so maybe I can luck out or opt for an emissions waiver. But I have another question for you that has nothing to do with Saturns. (Hope nobody minds if I switch from Saturns to a Chevy truck!)
Another friend of mine has an '03 Chevy Silverado with the 5.3 V-8 engine. I scanned his computer yesterday and there are 2 codes set. One is PO446, and the other is PO452. Both are emissions related. I posted this question in the Chevy Silverado forum, but no answer yet. Would you know what sensor/component could be bad in this case? What should we look for? My friend Larry says he hasn't had check engine light come on since he's had the truck from new! And when I asked him if he ever had a tune up he said not to the best of his knowledge. The truck only has a little over 60K on it in 10 years, but if it were mine I definately would have replaced the plugs and wires LONG ago. He says it runs fine, but I started it after I scanned it and I thought the motor was running just slightly rough.
Let me know what you think about this "out of forum" issue with this truck and I thank you very much. (Mike)