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2012 Mazda3

1235789

Comments

  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    The "grin" has been toned down for 2012.

    Ford got a few more horses, but Mazda got more FE. I'll take the higher FE any day. And that slick 6MT.

    I must be different from the rest of you folks who spend tons of time fiddling with climate control systems. For me, it's pretty easy: if it's cool/cold weather, start with full heat. If I am driving for long enough (and it's warm enough) such that it starts getting toasty, then crank the heat back a bit. Done. If it's warm weather, I use the coolest setting. If it's too warm for that, I press the A/C button. If I want max cooling, I use Max A/C.

    Since the HVAC controls on all my cars are simple and intuitive in operation and location, I don't even need to take my eyes off the road to use them. And they do EXACTLY what I want them to do. Kind of like... a manual transmission.

    About those voice commands... watch out, those will be the next things that the NHTSA will recommend banning, since talking to the computer while driving can be distracting! :P
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Unless you've got something that can sense a temperature level and adjust to try to hit that level simply moving from intense sun to shade can require a manual adjustment. Auto climate control used to be a lux feature but now it's really more of a safety feature, one less thing to need to fiddle with while driving. Mazda made a mistake not offering it with the SkyActiv, even if only on the Grand Touring trim.

    Mazda definitely made a better M/T. The A/T is arguably better too, Ford has had trouble with the smoothness of the automated manual at low speeds, and Mazda's semi-slush strategy might have been the wiser one. Plus they're the only ones who know how to do a sequential slapshifter correctly. :)

    I still think they could have squeezed a few more horses out of it without loosing more than 1 MPG.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    I must be different from the rest of you folks who spend tons of time fiddling with climate control systems.

    Yeah, you live in Minneapolis area. They have two seasons, winter and "sprummerfall" ;)

    Very few days of real hot weather, a fair amount of temperate and a whole lot of cold. I don't know if you've ever owned a car with auto climate control but, if not, you really don't know what you're missing. I alternate between a Tundra and an Infiniti. Tundra is manual climate and the Infiniti is auto climate. I really notice it when I'm driving the Tundra and feel like I am twisting the temp dial or tweaking the fan dial all the time. I really miss the auto climate control when I'm driving the Tundra.

    Now, could I control it manually like I've done for 40 years? Sure, but I also could roll my own windows, manually lock and unlock all my doors, put the key in the door and trunk instead of pressing a button as I walk up to the car and a few other things that have become more convenient. So as some of these convenience items become commonplace, people come to expect to be able to at least order them within some kind of package. I feel Mazda made a mistake by not offering it with the skyactiv engine but it wouldn't stop me from buying the car if I REALLY loved everything else about it. I also wouldn't complain ad nauseam about either.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Try rolling down the windows--especially those in the back seat--while driving. Pretty hard to do, hence the great usefulness of power windows. Also very hard to lock/unlock all the doors manually--power locks are great, especially on 4-door vehicles. Push-button trunk release? Not quite as critical, but I do like them. My current daily driver doesn't have it, and I miss it but I manage just fine.

    I've owned one car, a 3 Series, with auto climate control. It was OK, but I really didn't find it an important feature like power windows, locks, or mirrors and certainly I would not consider it a "safety" feature. A convenience, yes. I guess I can live without fewer convenience features in my cars than many other people. But then, my first car didn't have power windows, or locks, or mirrors, or steering. No vents in the dash for the non-auto climate control--which had the famous "4-55 A/C". Did have these nifty little vent windows in the front doors though. No radio. No factory carpet. Did have a 3-speed slushbox. And for safety features, it had seatbelts. Factory put in four, had to add one in the middle rear position.

    So I'm OK with turning a dial or pressing a button to control the environment inside my car. Maybe part of it is that it's something I get to do, vs. having some computer figure out what it thinks I want.

    P.S. My job involves working with computers... very powerful computers.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    but it wouldn't stop me from buying the car if I REALLY loved everything else about it.

    It'd stop me. Maybe I can't get everything I want but that is one of the things I'm unwilling to compromise on.

    I also wouldn't complain ad nauseam about either.

    I would :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Yeah, I complain as well. Back when I bought my current Mazda3 I didn't have anything to complain about as both my wife and I had recently been laid off and the new job I was starting was a temporary gig which was to (hopefully) been converted to full-time after six to nine months; I needed a new car and it needed to be inexpensive (read few if any options).

    Now that things are once again looking up for us, we're able to step up a level (but still not anywhere near where we were say ten years ago), and automatic wipers, climate control, and any number of other goodies have made their way back onto the "required options" list. I find it just silly that Mazda makes us choose between a car with crap fuel economy and lots of options, or a lesser equipped car with near best in class fuel economy; doubly so if you happen to also demand a manual transmission in your car.

    While I agree that extra goodies aren't for everybody; arbritrarily deciding that options like fuel efficient engines and climate control should be mutually exclusive simply doesn't make sense. Mazda should simply set their option list up as follows:

    - Model List:
    - - Mazda3 i Sport (2.0 liter)
    - - Mazda3 i Touring (2.0 liter SkyActiv)
    - - Mazda3 i Grand Touring (2.0 liter SkyActiv)
    - - Mazda3 s Touring (2.0 liter SkyActiv)
    - - Mazda3 s Grand Touring (2.0 liter SkyActiv)

    - Transmission selection (applies to all models):
    - - Automatic
    - - Manual

    - Options:
    - - Option list for Mazda3 i Sport (regardless of Transmission)
    - - Option list for Mazda3 x Touring (regardless of Engine or Transmission)
    - - Option list for Mazda3 x Grand Touring (regardless of Engine or Transmission)

    Allowing their cars to be configured in the above manner will:

    A) allow Mazda to sell cars with a higher average price (assuming the buyer was going to buy a Mazda3 no matter what), or more importantly,
    B) allow Mazda to make sales which would otherwise go to different manufacturers
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited December 2011
    Try rolling down the windows--especially those in the back seat--while driving. Pretty hard to do, hence the great usefulness of power windows. Also very hard to lock/unlock all the doors manually--power locks are great, especially on 4-door vehicles.

    "Hard" is a somewhat subjective term in this regard. I wouldn't call it hard but I would call it inconvenient. Just as you "justified" those convenient options that you appreciate, others can "justify" the ones they like. None of them are necessary so it's just a matter of personal preference. As far as the safety argument goes.....I agree that is stretching it to make a point.

    I don't think it foolish that someone wants a particular option that makes life convenient for them.

    By the way, just for some perspective, my THIRD car had a two speed slushbox. My first two were sticks that mirrored your decription of no power anything including brakes and steering and an AM radio. And that radio, OMG, didn't even have pushbuttons for stations.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Hmmm, with the exception of the Dodge Charger rental car I had recently, the only car I've ever had with a "pushbutton" starter had said "pushbutton" down on the floor; you had to operate it with your foot. :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    I test drove a Mazda 3 Skyactive and when I started it with a cold motor (outside temp was 50 here in CA) and there was a lot of noise coming from the engine for the first 30 seconds or so and then it stopped and ran normally. Dealer said this is normal with the Skyactiv.

    Yes, it is normal. Mazda disclosed such information before the launch of the vehicle to the sales and service staff of dealers. I can't remember the explination at this time, but I can find it for you.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I wouldn't call it hard but I would call it inconvenient.

    So you are a contortionist? :) Or probably what you meant is, you CAN'T roll down the back windows while driving... you'd have to stop the car, get out and roll them down. Yes, I'd say that's pretty inconvenient.

    I never said others' preferences re features they consider important are "foolish". What I said was, I must not need as many features in my cars as other folks. I have read posts in Town Hall from folks who don't even want power windows on their new car. That's getting very hard to do these days.

    At least your third car HAD a radio! ;)
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    Never had a car with the floor push starter but did drive a couple of farm tractors that had that setup. I'm really not a fan of the new pushbutton start in cars but I can appreciate the convenience of keeping the key in your pocket. There are just some things with them that I'm not quite comfortable with. I'm sure I'll come around once I get exposed to them more. More than likely my next new car will it.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I know some folks love their new cars with the push-button start; personally I could take it or leave it. :P
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I don't care about the starting but I can see how not having to fumble with the fob might be handy.
  • rangermuttrangermutt Member Posts: 5
    There is nothing wrong with the engine. The noise that you mention is due to the ignition being retarded for faster warm up. With a compression ratio of 12:1, Mazda had to make a lot of changes to the engine design for it to run on 87 octane gasoline which included direct fuel injection with 6 hole nozzles, a longer exhaust manifold with 4-2-1 configuration (although with the space limitation in the 3 they were unable to utilize this fully), totally different piston design, etc.

    For more info about SkyActiv check out the Mazda website at SkyActiv
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    The noise that you mention is due to the ignition being retarded for faster warm up

    If someone were reading this sentence and did not have knowledge of what this means, I think they would interpret it a bit differently. I thought it was quite funny. ;)

    In any event, that explination is correct.
  • rangermuttrangermutt Member Posts: 5
    I don't recall the exact figure but I believe it was around $18,700 for the i Touring with AT. No other options but we did go with undercoating and paint protection since we live in the rust belt. And we also opted for the extended warranty due to the newness of SkyActiv - looks good on paper but has it been proven in the "real world"?
  • rangermuttrangermutt Member Posts: 5
    LOL. Perhaps I was retarded when I wrote that.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Backy-

    Thanks for your thoughts on the Mazda3 SKYACTIV 6-speed mtx. We have sold out of our 6-speeds and don't have any more for quite sometime. :sick:

    I have a subaru dealer in our dealer group and I have had some seat time in the 2012 Impreza and I came away both impressed and disappointed. Lemme explain...

    I think the car looks much, much better in person than in print. The interior is put together very, very well. The drive train is every smooth and 5-speed manual was very slick (not as slick as Mazda's). I thought power delivery was decent, but the low end grunt was lacking significantly compared to the previous 2.5L model. Interior space was excellent and rear room, for me, was outstanding. I am 6'3".

    As for the handling, I thought it was just OK. Considering Subaru bench marked the Mazda3 as it's target, I feel they came up way short. The interior design is rather uninspiring and dull.

    Being that the Subi has AWD, the mileage is impressive. Living in New England, Subaru's are extremely popular, and our Subaru store is one of the nations largest. If I were in the market for a car in this segment (which I am not), the Impreza would be on my short list along with the Mazda3.

    Back to the Mazda3....

    I believe with the drive train overhaul, first reviews and owner reports, the car should the top of the class for technology, performance and economy.

    Styling is still subjective and IMO, not the best, but still looks pretty good for a 3yr old design. The interior is well put together and materials are pretty good, but not class leading. I believe the Focus and Elantra are a notch or two better but the Mazda3 is better than the Cruze, Civic and the rest of the class.

    Thanks for your input :shades:
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I kinda like the sheer simplicity of the Impreza's dash. Germanic in a way. I think it will wear well over time. Good to hear the 5 speed is "slick". I don't suppose you noticed the revs on the highway?

    My only concerns on the Impreza are: 1) shift quality and revs for the MT; 2) ride quality--ride with 17" wheels was too hard for my taste, I hope the 16-inchers are smoother; 3) rear seat ankle clearance. Maybe the Premium hatch will "sit" differently than the Limited sedan I drove.

    If those concerns are resolved, it will be a real tough choice between the Mazda3 and Impreza... with the Focus SE as a dark horse. One thing I do like about the Impreza is the rear seats fold FLAT. Not so on the Mazda3. They don't stick up as much as on some cars, but they don't fold flat.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    edited December 2011
    When it comes to the Subaru buyer, simplicity is key. Subaru has an amazing owner loyalty rate, and their customers do not like change.

    I have driven both CVT and 5-speed models and sedan and Sport (5-door) variants. IIRC, the revs are around 2,500-2,800 at 70mph. Don't quote me on that, I might be incorrect. I will say, the engine did not have the "wonk, wonk, wonk" sound Subaru's are known for having.

    I noticed you mentioned ankle clearance, but I did not look at that when I sat in the rear. I just noticed that there was an abundance of room between my knees and the seat in front of me.

    The 5-speed manual was nice. The shifter itself is rather large, but throws are shorter than you would expect, but not nearly as short at the 6-speed Mazda.

    I found the Focus hatch to be rather tight. I really like to build quality, solidness (is that even a word?) and materials used. I found the cabin to be very tight. I also do not like the weird geometry used to design the cabin. The exterior is rather dull to me as well. The only part I like is the rear of the sedan, not the hatchback. I also found the power to be underwhelming. I thought 160hp would feel quicker. The Mazda3 might be a hair faster, IMO. We will have to wait and see for a head-to-head from someone (Edmunds, I hope you are listening!!) and see which is quicker.

    I believe you mentioned you live in Minnesota? It's hard to pass up AWD when you get snow like we do (Connecticut). That is why I would have the Impreza on my shopping list.

    What I am in the market for is a small SUV. It is time to replace my 2005 Mazda6 i 5-door 5-speed manual. I have 2 kids, and the car is not big enough. I have the luxury of having a company car, but my wife drives the 6 now. We will either be buying a Forester or a CX-5 when it comes out. I think it will be the CX-5, but which ever car my wife feels more comfortable in, we will get.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    Interesting discussion, backy.

    What is the approximate price difference between the Mazda3 Skyactiv hatch with MT and Subaru Impreza Premium hatch with MT?

    In a somewhat unrelated vein, driving in Canada, which is known for its winters, I can't say that I have ever felt uncomfortable in my Protege5 shod with winter tires. My Mazda3 inspires even more confidence with its added ESC. I have heard the praise of AWD but frankly I wonder about the value proposition. And then there are those off-road vehicles that rarely stray from asphalt, but that deserves a separate post.
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    edited December 2011
    Chicago gets a fair amount of snow as well. I have one(of three) vehicles that is a 4X4 and I have turned on the AWD portion two or three times per winter and I'm sure I could have made it just fine without it even then. Maybe a little more slipping at stop signs or traffic lights but doable.

    For city or suburb driving in the snow belt I think front-wheel drive is adequate. It does depend on the condition of the roads you drive on however and maybe I live in an area where the roads are very well plowed and salted. It's the rare storm that people can't get around with front wheel drive just about as well as AWD. My next CUV(CX-5 possibly) will most likely have just front wheel drive for the MPG and less maint/cost up front. If I happen to get stuck once over the life of the vehicle it still wouldn't be worth the extra overall cost IMO.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    For city or suburb driving in the snow belt I think front-wheel drive is adequate. It does depend on the condition of the roads ... It's the rare storm that people can't get around with front wheel drive ... wouldn't be worth the extra overall cost
    Agreed.

    p.s. Likely I am not alone in finding that the most dangerous aspect of winter driving is other drivers. :D
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I live in a hilly area that doesn't always get such loving attention. On the other hand, I can work from home if the roads are that bad, so it's just a matter of not wanting to be stuck somewhere, not a matter of leaving the house in the stuff.

    Then again, for a 4 MPG loss by going from a Mazda3 SkyActiv to a Subie Impreza you gain additional handling from the AWD, as well as gobs of rear seat room and auto climate control.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    I think the difference is only about $300... Impreza being more. There's some difference in features (AWD being the obvious difference, and 5MT vs. 6MT, and Mazda3 has standard leather wheel/shifter) but they are comparable for my purposes. Focus SE will be less, but doesn't have alloys unless I spring for the Sport package, which I don't want as I want the Stone interior.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    .... gobs of rear seat room ...

    YMMV
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Then again, for a 4 MPG loss by going from a Mazda3 SkyActiv to a Subie Impreza you gain additional handling from the AWD

    The Subi Sport (5-door) with a manual transmission gets 33mpg highway compared to the Mazda3 5-door gets 38 and averages 32 combined. Thats a pretty big difference.

    Does AWD really mean that much for the 90% of the time you don't need it? That's what one needs to evaluate.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    The Subie Sport 5 door with a CVT gets 36 MPG highway compared to the Mazda3 5-door automatic getting 38. That's a pretty insignificant difference.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    My reference was to Backy who is not considering a CVT model, but rather a manual transmission. The FE difference is rather large in that respect.

    I came away very unimpressed with the CVT. The 5-speed manual in the Subi delivers better performance, IMO.

    The 5-door automatic in the Mazda3 gets 39mpg and 7 more ponies, BTW.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    Do you always go by the EPA numbers? It's been said that some cars do better (or worse) than their EPA numbers.

    But by the EPA numbers... Impreza 5-door 5MT is 28 mpg overall, the Mazda3 5-door 6MT is 31 overall. So about a 10% difference by the EPA. Enough to be a factor in a decision, but since there's some years (like last year) I see over 5 months of snow, the AWD is a major factor also. And the little things like fold-flat rear seats.

    And I am not 100% locked into the MT. That's my preference, but I could live with an automatic/CVT. I do so now.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I can't deal with a stick in the traffic I deal with. Besides, the SkyActiv 6-speed non-manual is such a sweet transmission I can't bear to call it an automatic.
  • backybacky Member Posts: 18,949
    You know, one reason I have gone more towards automatics in recent years is the ever-worsening traffic. (And the fact that I've had kids at home who have needed to drive my car occasionally, and destroyed a clutch on one of my cars to the tune of $1300.) With my next car, the kids won't be a factor. And the stick on the Mazda3 is so great, I would be willing to row it in that heavy traffic. Actually, I might go looking for heavy traffic. :)
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    edited December 2011
    I can't deal with a stick in the traffic I deal with. Besides, the SkyActiv 6-speed non-manual is such a sweet transmission I can't bear to call it an automatic.

    It is sweet, but as fun as a 6-speed manual? I would say no, but that is just my opinion.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    Do you always go by the EPA numbers? It's been said that some cars do better (or worse) than their EPA numbers.

    Valid point. The Subi just got here about 2 weeks ago and the Mazda3 has been out for about 45 days. We have seen early reports of the Mazda doing very well, but not enough real world data for the Subi yet.
  • autonomousautonomous Member Posts: 1,769
    edited December 2011
    Mazda3 has been out for about 45 days

    Is the Skyactiv message getting through to your clients?

    Are there more Skyactivs being sold than other versions of the Mazda3?

    Are there new trends with the Mazda3 this year compared to previous years (e.g. are there more automatics being sold than in the past, or are smaller engines becoming more desireable, or are more people cross shopping the Mazda3 with smaller vehicles)?

    With the economy in a funk and this being winter are sales generally worse than they were last year or the same or better?

    My impression is that after the initial surge in the fall, a lull happens in the winter, until the next sales spurt happens in the spring and carries through the summer. Is that the case for your dealership?
  • m6userm6user Member Posts: 3,181
    aviboy you'll get a kick out of this. I was driving the other day listening to the radio and I hear an ad for a local Mazda dealer. It said "come and see the new Skyact IV"(as in the roman numeral). I thought I heard it wrong but they repeated it. So I thought, wow, I was pretty sure it was "skyactiv" as in "active" but I've been wrong before. I was at my regular Mazda dealer for a tranny flush this week and told them about it. They thought it was pretty funny.

    Don't know if the ad agency screwed up or the dealer gave them poor copy but it sure sounded funny.
  • kungphulekungphule Member Posts: 2
    edited December 2011
    "I called several Mazda dealers, and they all indicate that Mazda has no plans to bring the MT Skyactiv with the Moonroof/Bose package. I hope this information is wrong."

    I'm waiting for this as well. I just had an update from my dealer that they expect to see these arrive in the next 60 to 90 days.

    I drove the 6MT hatch (surprised at the quietness of the cabin, better than my 95 Maxima, fiance's 2012 FIT...not as good as my 04 Maxima SL; transmission is gold; there's no kick in the pants from the engine, but it was certainly adequate to get up to hwy speeds on a short, up-hill on-ramp) and played extensively with the sound system....then I sat in an S Grand Touring with the BOSE....in my opinion the 6 spkr system isn't horrible, but the 10 spkr is as good as or better than the upper level Focus and Veloster sound systems.

    Obviously, the way a system sounds is a super subjective topic. I found the range of adjustment larger for the Mazda system than that of the Veloster (even though the Veloster offered more options to change the sound model, they never seemed to alter the actual dynamics as much). The top tier in the Focus might be better, but I didn't have as much time to fiddle around in the titanium trim so I'm calling it a tie.

    My last two cars had premium sound systems (most recently '04 Maxima) and with the amount of time I spend in the car these days I just can't go back to the more muddled and tinny sound of the base model. But this is very relative, compared to an 08 WRX I owned for a week (long story) the base is a far, far better sound system. I'm very pleased that with either one it doesn't sound like you're in a warehouse.

    My only concern is that I'd like to take advantage of the financing deal, but I believe it ends on January 30th and it doesn't sound like these will get here by then. Any insiders know what's up next after this round of deals?

    Anybody else ever tried to swap out the head unit in these one-piece media centers that every new car maker seems to be focusing on? I've wondered if there's just a normal square box behind all that plastic that can be swapped out for after market with the right connections.
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    edited December 2011
    Is the Skyactiv message getting through to your clients?

    We have done our job promoting it, that's for sure. There is a good amount of buzz in my area about SKYACTIV, more so for hte CX-5. Lot's of service customers have added their name to the call list for when that car comes out.

    Are there more Skyactivs being sold than other versions of the Mazda3?

    Yes. I really can't order any i Sports or s Touring/Grand Touring anymore. I have 34 Mazda3's on order right now, and only 4 are non-SKYACTIV. The only non-SKYACTIV Mazda3's I have were shipped before SKYACTIV even came out.

    With the economy in a funk and this being winter are sales generally worse than they were last year or the same or better?

    This year has been worse. The normal buyer is not out right now. We are seeing a lot of bad credit people, or those who will only buy if the car is sold for an unrealistic price. Mazda is not a strong winter brand in my neck of the woods, and never has been. Hopefully hte CX-5 will change that. My Subaru store is doing very well, but giving cars away too, and our Ford store is kinda flat. Typical for the North East this time of year.

    March is when our brand catches fire. We will have a great inventory of Mazda3's, 85% SKYACTIV, and we will go back to selling high volume of those. The CX-5 should be a hit, but we will see. Our best selling months are March-August.
  • kungphulekungphule Member Posts: 2
    Nevermind. I just got an update from my dealer again and there will be no BOSE/Moonroof package offered on a 2012 Mazda 3 i Touring with 6MT. You will be able to get it with the 6AT. This is truly baffling to me. We're not even talking different trims now....and certainly nothing that touches the drive train. Simply can't get the upgraded audio/moonroof option if you also want to drive stick.

    No tech package, no upgraded audio, no moonroof. Mazda may have just lost my business.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited December 2011
    "No tech package, no upgraded audio, no moonroof. Mazda may have just lost my business."

    I'm glad someone else is carrying this torch; Mazda already lost our business for my wife's new car, and in another 18 months or so when I replace my current Mazda3 they'll likely lose mine as well (unless they step up to the plate and start offering their most fuel-efficient models with a full load of options AND a manual transmission). :mad:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    That is pretty funny. I bet the ad agency messed it up, but the dealer usually hears the radio spot BEFORE it goes live. Shame on those who missed it.

    If Mazda would have put an e on the and of ACTIV, it would make things a lot easier, but whater!
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    That would INCLUDE automatic climate control. Otherwise I'll end up in an Impreza.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I don't believe the Impreza offers climate control with a manual transmission either; of course it does offer AWD. It seems that the only smallish and fuel efficient car with a manual transmission available on the market these days is the Golf TDI.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I don't care about those silly anachronistic 3-pedal transmissions. :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Ahhh, I see, you'd rather have a transmission akin to the power transfer arrangement of the lathe I used in wood shop in 1971. :shades:
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    I'd prefer something that takes advantage of modern physics and automation breakthroughs while still allowing a certain measure of user control. :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited December 2011
    Funny thing, even the best of automatic transmissions these days only just barely meet or exceed a good manual, and at a much greater cost no less. Even still, none of them (i.e. the best of the automatic crowd) offer the control and visceral feel of what is going on.
  • bpizzutibpizzuti Member Posts: 2,743
    Hmm, good things there's transmissions out there that greatly exceed good manuals while still providing good feel and control, while approaching the convenience of an automatic transmission. :shades:

    Too bad Mazda stuck with an automatic instead of a DSG, but they did do a really REALLY good job with it. Too bad the dropped the ball on the interior....and exterior...and option packaging...
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Nah, even a DSG cannot match a good manual transmission when it comes to feel and control (and only just barely match it in fuel economy).

    Comparing our new 6-Speed GTI to a new GTI with a DSG, the latter is a soulless car which can shift fast but is often challenged when it comes to gear selection and cannot dynamically adjust to the speed and/or harshness of any given shift. Take a test drive in stop and go traffic and you'll see for yourself how annoying a DSG can be. The thing is, if you request a gear change the transmission wasn't expecting and/or suddenly change your mind mid shift as to whether you want to shift up or down, the DSG will be left with the wrong cog selected, and then a lag before you're back under power. Then there's the whole gear change speed/intensity issue; during my test drives I found the transmission to be far too harsh when driving sedately; fast and harsh shifts are fine when your pedal to the metal, but not when you're tooling through a neighborhood.

    For my part, until an automatic transmission can be neurally wired to my brain so that it can "see" what's coming and anticipate what to do next, an "Automatic" transmission will not be anywhere near as good as a true manual transmission, and even then it will be no where near as "fun" to drive. :shades:
  • aviboy97aviboy97 Member Posts: 3,159
    edited December 2011
    Too bad Mazda stuck with an automatic instead of a DSG, but they did do a really REALLY good job with it. Too bad the dropped the ball on the interior....and exterior...and option packaging...

    DCT's have a few draw backs, hence why Mazda opted not to use one. They cost more to build, weigh more and provide less low end efficiency while offering a less than smooth shift at lower speeds as well, something Ford is struggling with as we speak.

    What Mazda did with the torque converter transmission was increase the amount of clutch plates in the transmission, and had the torque converter lock up 80% of the time, as opposed to 50% of most torque converter transmissions. This allows for less energy loss from clutch slippage, more direct shift feel (similar to a DCT), and increased FE at low speeds. This transmission weighs less, costs less and is more efficient than a DCT, according to Mazda.

    As for interior and exterior, you have to remember this is a 3 year old car. When it debuted in November 2008 and went on sale in February 2009, the interior was near top of it's class, only bested by the Golf (Rabbit at the time). I believe the Golf, Elantra and Focus are really the only cars with better interiors right now. The exterior has always drawn criticism, mainly the front end, but the side profile and rear are still attractive. Even with controversial styling, it still sold very very well, even with power trains that offered FE in the lower end of the spectrum.
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