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2012 Kia Rio5: Real Time Fuel Economy (MPG).

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Comments

  • btatrbtatr Posts: 75
    Engine noise is relative, what sounds good to me might sound noisy to someone else. I love the sound of my 1.6 L engine which is quite energetic for a car in this class.

    Let me repeat what I've said earlier in this thread. I was on I-95 earlier today driving to and from the airport with a friend. On more than one occasion I had to slow down because I was doing over 80 mph but didn't realize it because the engine is so smooth and quiet on the highway.

    On the downside, the one and only problem I've had with my 2012 SX RIO in 20 months is wind noise from the passenger side. All of the gaskets were checked and they're fine. The KIA service manager advised it's an issue with some KIAs where wind noise goes between the side view mirror and the passenger or drive window, depending on the car. Per the service manager, there is no solution for the problem.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Since a car is basically symmetrical (except for where and position of windshield wipers when they park) (which could affect wind noise one side more than another) I have never understood how one side can seem the be the source of noise more than another if all the seals etc are the same. Of course there can be prevailing winds on some people's commute that certainly can't be blamed on the car, but by rights, going the other direction the noise should follow and stay on that side.

    My car has those dang window vents glued onto it (I didn't buy the car new). I am reluctant to remove them cuz that 3M tape that is used is pretty powerful stuff...not sure if paint would come with it :( Certainly there would be sponge leftovers if the paint stayed.
    Those window vents add a lot of extra noise, to an already fairly noisy car. Noise is one reason I am prepared to pay more for my next vehicle...assuming more $ equates to less noise and usually that is the case.

    I plan to drive the Rio and see for myself. I am all over the place though as a big part of me wants to own a diesel again, and if I went that route, I want to stick with AWD too, and there are only high enders that offer such a combo. That will be the case I guess until Mazda puts the diesel in the whatever it is called...5 SUV.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    I never noticed that the "Window Vent Shades" add noise to Vehicle? In Florida, the windows are usually closed 99% of the time with the A/C engaged. I special ordered by Window Vent Shades directly from Korea before they were available in the U.S. I wanted genuine Kia OEM "MOBIS" Parts. It allows the windows to be left open an inch or two when parked so that you don`t have to enter a sealed Vehicle that has an interior temperature of 150` in the Summer and keeps the daily rain from entering the car. Guess it all depends on your location whether they are an asset or a liability.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited July 2013
    Yes, I do that too. That is the only perk to them in my opinion. That said, that feature is not good enough to offset the annoyance of the noise. Of course the noise will not be an issue per se on all cars due to so many dif shapes. Mine is a CRV.

    I think I would like to have the vents on the back doors that would still vent the car and yet maybe not create as much noise, and if they did create noise, at least it would be behind you rather than right there at your ear.

    I will mention another aspect of these vents that add daily to my frustration with them. Mine are smoked, as are most I have seen, and on the drivers side A pillar they add so much extra width to that pillar that it is a safety/stress issue when turning left at busy intersections with lots of pedestrians etc. And is made worse if it is at night, and worse again if raining. it is hard to keep an A pillar sized down so that it does not obstruct your view out, yet retain the ever increasing crash standards that we expect from our cars.

    So again, if the vents were only on the rear doors, the obstruction issue would also be solved. Not sure how it would look tho.. might be fine or might look very unbalanced..hard to say.

    And another thing I could add..although probably more influential with the smaller the engine and smaller/lighter the car, (Rio then) is that these vents could upset aerodynamics more than one might think, which could either lower, but more likely.. raise fuel use.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    To answer all your questions would take us far afield in this discussion. If you'd like to repost in the general Rio discussion I'll be glad to respond there.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    US spec. For 2013 at least, the LX Convenience Pkg is available only with the AT. If you want to confirm that, go to Kia.com and try to build an LX with stick and Convenience Pkg.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    backy; You are correct. For 2013 and perhaps 2012, Kia Rio5 LX was the only Trim until recently that offered the 6 Speed Manual Transmission here in the U.S. until a very limited amount of SX Trim Models ( approx 500) were Built with 6 Speed Manual Transmissions this past year. Your also correct that if one opted for the LX with the 6 Speed manual transmission, the "Power Package" a $1000 option was not available. 6 speed automatic transmission required for PW,PL, PM, and Remote Key Fob! So called "Convenience Packages" which are considerably more extensive is only available in EX Trim as well as Eco Package (stop & go) technology. The "Premium Package" SX Trim only offered the Power Sunroof, Heated Front Seats, Leather Trim, Push-button start w/smart key and the Voice activated Navigation which replaced Sirius/XM satellite Radio and rear-camera monitor which replaced the UVO in-vehicle infotainment system.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    I took my 2013 Rio5 LX AT on another longish trip today, 200 miles round trip, 1640 miles on the odo starting out. I am pleased to report that the FE was about 10% better than my first highway trip nearly two months ago, when the car was brand-spanking new. Highway speed was similar, 65 mph speed limit most of the way, with a few miles at 55-60, and I rarely exceeded the speed limit. Hot day, 90+, so AC was on all the way. No headwind or tailwind to speak of (just a light cross wind). Also this time I had a passenger, so about 350 pounds total in the car. On my trip in early July, I was alone and didn't use AC all the time.

    FE broke down like this (all based on trip computer, which I've found is ~3% high):

    * 42.0 mpg on the outbound leg
    * Dropped to 39.0 mpg overall after driving around my destination for half an hour
    * Final average mpg: 41.3, thus return leg achieved a bit over 43.6 mpg! (I suspect because it was a little more downhill than the outbound leg.)

    So it appears the car's fuel economy is improving with some miles on the engine, just as I have experienced with the Hyundais I've owned over the years.

    I think a big reason I did so well on this trip, besides keeping to speed limits, is that I kept an eye on the instantaneous mpg readout almost the whole trip. I noticed a significant difference in highway mpg with only a very slight change in pedal pressure. I've seen that with other cars, but it illustrates how important a light touch on the gas pedal is for achieving excellent FE numbers. And explains why I always get better FE on my cars than my DW does--she doesn't pay any attention to how much pressure she puts on the gas pedal. She drives like a granny, but that by itself doesn't help her get high FE numbers.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    Thats great news! I have almost 17K on my 2012 Kia Rio5 and milage hasn`t improved whatsoever. Maybe after it reaches 50K and or after the Timing Belt is replaced perhaps. The only downside to you unbelievable Fuel Economy numbers is that you won`t be getting any reimbursement from Kia with their Pre-loaded Credit Card Program to compensate you for the lower MPG 90% of other Kia Rio owners are getting regardless if they drive with a (feather foot) or have the A/C on or not. If you live in Florida and open your windows instead, you fuel economy would go down with the added air drag. I just replaced my 2011 Ford Fiesta SE Hatchback with a new 2013 Ford C-MAX SE Hybrid. Your getting better fuel economy with your Kia Rio then folks driving a diesel or a hybrid. Very interesting! Lucky you.
  • Good luck on replacing that "timing belt" Phill. FYI, it doesn't have one which was one of the reasons I preferred the Rio over anything made by Ford.

    My mileage has also steadily improved over the 20k+ I now have on the clock. Regarding watching the real time MPG display, I sometimes manually select a higher gear on a half mile hill I encounter a lot while watching the display. When the car was new the MPG would actually drop when I did this. Now, however, the MPG increases. Finally I can brag that I'm smarter than the car's computer. Hey, it beats listening to the crummy radio stations they have around here.
  • btatrbtatr Posts: 75
    Skeptic, you should have kept Sirius Satellite Radio which is ten times better than commercial radio.
  • btatrbtatr Posts: 75
    Congratulations on those excellent results Backy and thanks for sharing.

    I never paid so much attention to fuel economy until I got my Rio SX Five Door. Backy talked about driving habits and I quickly learned how much they impact fuel economy.

    On the highway, I normally drive around 75 mph and often have to slow down as I wind up doing more than 80 mph because the RIO engine is so smooth and quiet on the Interstate, I don't realize how fast I'm actually going. On average my highway only mpg is between 37 and 38, but usually closer to 37.

    However, on those rare stretches of highway where I forced myself to do only 65 mph, I noticed how quickly fuel economy would go up. Unfortunately I never have enough self-discipline to maintain that slow 65 mph pace for long, but I learned how much that impacts fuel economy during highway driving.

    Driving habits and road conditions are even more significant for city driving where one's habits can result in a wide array of city only mpg ratings. Do you accelerate rapidly at red lights like I do? Are your car windows open? Do you have numerous traffic lights where you drive locally? Do you drive in heavy traffic every day?

    You get the idea and that's why I don't believe there's any way of coming up with a meaningful city mpg rating for a car.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    Do you accelerate rapidly at red lights like I do?

    No, usually I accelerate slow and steady, trying to keep the revs down--especially when there's no one behind me. A couple of times I've punched it to see what it would do, and that's fun--but I'm at the age where paying less for gas excites me more than rabbit starts. :)

    Are your car windows open?

    Whenever possible, I have windows at least partly open as I love fresh air vs. AC. But in summer and winter, they're usually closed.

    Do you have numerous traffic lights where you drive locally?

    Sometimes I do, when I need to go downtown, but more often than not my "city" driving is in inner-ring suburbs with their share of lights, sometimes long ones, but not every block as you might find in a large downtown area.

    Do you drive in heavy traffic every day?

    Not every day, maybe 2-3 times a week on average, as I work from home thus can usually avoid the worst traffic in the morning and evening. But sometimes I get caught in bumper-to-bumper, stop-n-go stuff. And I watch the average mpg plummet. :(

    I agree that coming up with a meaningful standard "city" mpg rating is nigh impossible, given the huge variation in city driving conditions. I've been averaging over the EPA overall mpg rating on my Rio5 in daily driving (around 33-35 mpg on each tank), but as you can see, my "city" driving is not the same as the city driving for many people.
  • Phill, I got my oil changed at Walmart a few weeks ago. When I got back in the car the radio was tuned to Sirius and was playing. It's been playing ever since. I keep checking my CC for a charge (I did resubscribe once) but have seen nothing. Don't tell anyone!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    I have heard from a reliable source that Sirius does have trouble tracking who's paid and not paid. So... mum's the word! :)
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    Enjoy you Sirius/XM Satellite Radio for (free) until they finally run a "scan" and detect that its an unpaid account. I have Sirius/XM Radio in both my Kia Rio5 and my Ford C-MAX Hybrid. When my annual renewal comes up, I simply threaten to cancel and then I am offered a super low price deal and I renew for another 12 months. Usually ends up costing around $7 @ month.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    Yep, I've used that tactic on my wife's Sonata, and will use it on my Rio when the free trial expires. On the Sonata, I told them I wanted to cancel, and they said OK and sent me to the "Cancellation Department", who was of course someone trained to get subscribers to re-up. Which I did... at a much lower price than their initial offer. :)
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    Very risky playing the pre-authorized credit card monthly fee roulette. I simply will not do that anymore. You give them too much power and if they decide in the future to charge you when charges are discovered before your next credit card expiry date, you then have only one recourse to dispute if you think you have a case. And this takes times...months in fact usually. This happened to me with a crooked internet company that kept charging me for internet yet did not provide the services. It took me too damn long to get the credit card company to believe me, but eventually I was able to PROVE my case. I hope the first stupid ^$%#* I called and asked to have my card cancelled who refused to cancel it the day I called her, got FIRED! Long story short, I kept getting billed by this crook, and while the CC company did reimburdse me for at least ONE of the 4 months charges, I was still left holding the bag for the rest. They were absolute idiots cuz I was a customer who charged basically everything every month on the card. And while I never carried a balance so they didn't get any interest out of me, they DID get their % take from retailers every month. And I never defaulted or made them wait for a payment..they had a dream customer and they screwed themselves for taking too long to condemn the crooked retailer.

    I'd say you are taking a huge risk. Sirius could come along 2 years from now and bill you all those missed months PLUS cumulative interest and late fees until you cancel the pre-authorization and get a receipt (a reference #) for the request.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    I agree and thats why I never renew (anything) with automatic credit card or debit payment, period. Once I negotiate a deal with Sirius/XM to extend my service, I simply have them send me an Invoice for the agreed amount price and length of service and I mail them back a cheque with their bill.
  • btatrbtatr Posts: 75
    Since I purchased my 2012 SX, fuel economy numbers have been relatively consistent with my physical location. In the Carolinas my fuel economy was actually higher than it is in FL which surprised me. I already uploaded several posts on this bizarre difference because I thought FL mpg would be higher.

    Nonetheless, my fuel economy in FL went down slightly the past few months and I couldn't figure out why until yesterday. I was filing my invoices and noticed the new FL dealer used 5W-30 oil instead of the preferred/recommended 5W-20 oil. This is the first time a KIA dealership (where I go for all my oil changes) did NOT use 5W-20.

    The 30 weight oil is slightly heavier and I think it explains why my mileage has dropped by about 1 mpg.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    I thought this "thread" had ended. I just got my second year Kia Pre-Paid Visa Card loaded with $77.20 based on my mileage driven over the past 12 months. This was Kia and Hyundai`s apology for the (majority) of disappointed Buyers who have gotten dismal Fuel Economy results that never got close to the original EPA estimates. Odd, I got a check from Ford for $550 as well as all other 2013 C-Max Hybrid owners because they also inflated EPA Fuel Economy estimates with an average of 47 mpg which was later lowered to 43 mpg. Considering the size and weight of the Ford C-Max compared to the Kia Rio5, Ford`s numbers were a lot closer in (real time) driving conditions then Kia or Hyundai. Since there has been a handful of Posters on this Blog that consistently report outstanding Fuel Economy with their particular Vehicles, next time your at a Kia Dealership, ask any owners of a new Rio or for that matter any Salesman of the "feedback" they have received, in regards to gas mileage. Don`t confuse overall Owner Satisfaction with Fuel Economy!
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,720
    After 11 months and 26,621 miles. And we know guys who work for these car mags don't exactly baby their cars. This is with the MT.

    A quote from the last test update in the January issue:

    The Rio's fuel economy is holding steady at the pre-revision 34 combined mpg mark. Do I have to send Kia the difference in unspent gas?

    :)
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    Your point is? Do you actually think that HKAG and Kia actually revised their Fuel Economy Window Stickers when there was no need to? Did both Kia and Hyundai start their Credit Card Refund Program because a vast (majority) of Buyers were happy and either reaching or exceeding their expected Fuel Economy. What you Kia Rio "lovers" don`t seem to get is that most Owners are dis-satified with the MPG their Sub-Compact Cars are getting, period! I can`t honestly say I "dislike",my 2012 Kia Rio5 LX. Its very good looking, has great handling, its comfortable, was priced right, etc. Its just not the fuel sipper it was advertised to be. Sure it has great pick up and braking ability., but 24-26 mpg city and 29-31 highway just does`nt cut it for a Vehicle in this size Class and weight. I`m trading it in later this Summer for the (New) 2015 Ford Mustang Convertible with a Eco-Boost 2.3 Ltr Engine. I`m sure it will exceed the Kia Rio in Fuel Economy too.
    PS: If you feel (guilty) about your Kia Fuel Rebate, simply send it as a Donation to your favorite Charity, or you can send it to the Fund to compensate the majority of Kia Rio Owners that were deceived to begin with. My old 2006 Kia Rio5 got better MPG with its antiquated 1.6 (non-GDI) Engine with a 4 Speed Automatic Transmission. Explain that, please?
  • btatrbtatr Posts: 75
    After you spend a lot of money on your Mustang Convertible, please give us the courtesy of reporting your actual fuel economy numbers on the 2015 Ford. Of course you do realize, if there are any mpg savings, you will have lost that money on the purchase price of the car many times over.

    It's hard to understand why someone who's so concerned about a few mpg will spend twice as much money on that car versus the RIO. Can you please explain?
  • While I've only talked to a few other owners that stopped me in parking lots, I haven't heard a peep about their mileage, good or bad. One did ask me about the gas card. My brother-in-law loves the mileage he's getting on his, but he's comparing it to the Ford he traded. It's cut his gas expenses about 30%. My dealer service rep has heard no complaints either, but buyers around here aren't the types that go to the trouble of checking their gas mileage. I know how these magazines treat the cars that are loaned to them by the manufacturers. The Rio's ECU programs must suit them. I'm still getting ~38 on mostly 2 lane rural roads, ~40 on Interstate highway trips. I'm very happy with that.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    The explanation is very simple. First and foremost, I did indeed purchase my 2012 Kia Rio5 essentially as a cheap economical Sub-Compact Vehicle that I (thought) would get me the same equivalent gas mileage I was accustomed to with my 2011 Ford Fiesta Hatchback.....WRONG! While the Fiesta always got 31-33 mpg city and 41-43 mpg highway, the Kia (never) approached those numbers. When I finally do replace the 2012 Kia Rio5 with a 2015 Ford Mustang Convertible with its 2.3 ltr, Eco-Boost GDI Engine, it will be a different Class Vehicle, correct? Larger, heavier, a Convertible, bigger engine, and I would expect to get lower Fuel Economy. I am sure, regardless of what the 2015 Ford Mustang Convertible fuel mileage delivers in "real-time" driving conditions, it will (not) be worse then what the Kia Rio has been.The other comment that "I have never heard anyone at a Kia Dealership complain about their Kia Rio`s Fuel Economy or a Kia Sales Person not getting an ear full of negative feedback from previous buyers that have also complained about very disappointing gas milage is total nonsense". If that was truly the case, why did both Kia and Hyundai (both) initiate their Fuel Rebate and Credit-Card Program as well as changing their EPA Window Stickers and lower the EPA expected Fuel Economy estimates? Just for me? I happen to be the (only) one that complained about a B-Segment Car that gets the same Fuel Economy as a Full size Optima? If so, I feel (so) special. A lot of Kia Rio buyers owe me a huge "Thank You". Did I answer your question to your satisfaction?
  • Why are we continually talking about Fords on here? I thought this was supposed to be about the Kia Rio's MPG. Of all the commenters on here I find only one who complains about their Rio's MPG, yet this same commenter claims that everybody is unhappy with their Rio's MPG. Where are these people? I don't hear them on here or anywhere else. BTW, Consumer Watchdog was the organization that was instrumental in poking the EPA into checking Hyundai/Kia's MPG claims, not one individual.
  • phill1phill1 Posts: 315
    Why is it that the one "Fact" that you simply won`t address is (why) did HKAG, Hyundai and Kia initiate its Buyer Gas Rebate Credit Card Program? Deny as much as you desire, both the Kia Rio and its sibling the Hyundai Accent fell way short of expectations for Fuel Economy with their launch. Ford vehicles were simply interjected as (A) Comparison of Fuel Economy with similar size B-Segment Cars, Rio vs Fiesta and (B) My plans on replacing my 2012 Kia Rio5 with the upcoming 2015 Mustang Convertible. Funny, you put the (blame) on Consumer Watchdog for throwing both Kia and Hyundai (under the Bus) for their exaggerated EPA Fuel Estimates but put no blame on HKAG for not delivering anything close to their original Fuel Economy estimates. Guess its really true that Love is blind!
  • skeptic101skeptic101 Posts: 29
    edited December 2013
    I thought we had, ad nauseum. Consumer Watchdog had already sued Hyundai/Kia to get them to admit their MPG claims were erroneous when the EPA started looking at them too. Hyundai/Kia's investigation found that a human had left out the factor (0?) that estimates the aerodynamic losses in the "coast down" part of the computer program the EPA provides to estimate MPG (the manufacturers don't really drive the cars on the street). That would explain why the Kia Soul suffered the biggest losses when the factor was corrected (it's the model most shaped like a brick). Of course, somebody at Hyundai/Kia should have reviewed their hard to believe numbers and at least tried to back them up with real world driving tests. My guess is that somebody in their marketing group got hold of the original numbers and it just snowballed from there (suffered from that myself). Anyway, Hyundai/Kia launched their gas card solution as a way to take the wind away from Consumer Watchdog's sails, and away from any fines the EPA may have been contemplating. Must have worked for the fines, but the civil suit drags on (latest information I have). There is no criminal investigation. To me it's just a real life "Dilbert" episode.
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