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What makes you think you hurt my feelings or offended me? The fact that we disagree is nothing more than that, two different opinions. Debating with you on this issue is kind of fun, I'm not the least bit upset or offended.
I'm a cheerleader for the RIO SX only because I love the car. If I didn't like it, and/or if it was a disappointment, I would be the first person to trash it on these forums. There's nothing better than honesty.
But I do agree that KIA should offer me several free oil changes. Will you please write to the company at their owner's website and make that suggestion for me?
Thanks
I know it can be frustrating to not achieve MPG claims, but I do think it's great that you're helping each other instead of tearing each other down.
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I asked Phil if the EPA Combination Rating is 33 mpg and he refused to answered that question. He ignored the real world rating by the EPA and stated KIA was somehow deceiving buyers. Phil was intent on using the highway rating as the only goal, and in my opinion, that is a flawed approach.
If you're honest with yourself and utilize 33 mpg as the reference point, you will find that in addition to being a fabulous economy car on so many levels, the RIO SX comes pretty close to that more realistic goal.
But don't listen to me, test drive one and judge for yourself. And if you decide to buy a RIO SX, unlike Phil, be pragmatic, don't pretend you spend 100% of your time on the highway. If you expect a fantasy performance from your car, you will be setting yourself up for disappointment. Have fun with your new RIO and appreciate how much you get for such a low price.
I would guess nobody's mileage matches the computer. I think it's fair to say the computer mpg is a little too high, it certainly is in my RIO.
I'm not trying to sound too negative but that 32 mpg sounds about right if your in town/city portion involves lots of stopping and accelerating. Keep in mind, when you're sitting in traffic and/or at a red light, your getting zero miles per gallon.
When I was commuting to my job, my approximate ratio was similar and my results were just slightly higher, between 33 and 34 mpg, usually closer to 33. Remember, stop and go driving, even at a 20 to 25% ratio kills fuel economy.
Even though I think your 32 mpg numbers sounds fairly close to where it should be, here are some questions.
1. When you're on the highway, is it relatively flat or very hilly?
2. When you're on the highway, is there rush hour traffic? In other words, even though you're on the Interstate, are you experiencing times when traffic slows and you go into a semi or actual stop & go mode ?
3. Are your windows open or is your A/C on regularly?
4. Have you checked the air pressure in your tires? I ask that because some dealers never checked the pressure during their initial prep. I believe KIAs ship with more than 40 lbs in each tire and that isn't good. In addition, if one of your tires is improperly inflated, that can hurt fuel economy.
Just some thoughts, but as I stated earlier, that 20 to 25% of Stop & Go driving can put a real hurt on fuel economy which translates into what the EPA describes as Combination Driving. With the RIO, expect 33 mpg.
I truly appreciate your positive comments. I hate it when people attack others because not only is it rude, it detracts from the reason we're here. I think everyone should be free to express their opinions without being afraid of others coming after them.
I always try to keep the conversation focused on the issues. We disagree all the time so I don't understand why some people get offended and/or feel the need to attack others who have different opinions. What's the point of going to a discussion forum if you expect everyone to agree with you?
We accomplish a lot more if we can honestly express our opinions and discuss the issues in a courteous, civil manner.
Thanks again Kirstie.
Will you please read exactly what was written? Nobody accused you of attacking anyone. In fact Kirstie thanked your for being courteous. If there were any attacks, it happened only in your mind.
I still don't know why you kept apologizing for offending me or hurting my feelings when I told you that never happened. Once again, please avoid making up your own version of reality and carefully read what others write.
Just as I asked you to acknowledge the KIA EPA Combined mileage rating is 33 mpg, I'm also challenging you to point out where anyone accused you of being discourteous or attacking me. It never happened!
It was the same with the EPA KIA 33 mpg combined driving rating, you never acknowledged that factual information. I don't understand why.
Thank You
Thanks for adding that valuable information to the discussion. I also saw that MotorWeek report on the KIA you referred to where they got 38 mpg in their mixed driving route.
Motorweek is highly regarded and part of PBS [Public Broadcasting System]. I'm sure people can find their review online.
The EPA is just a score keeper. I'm sure all the manufacturers now tweak their car's transmission shift points and final drive ratios to achieve the highest mileage possible on the EPA's highway cycle. You might notice that most of these high mileage car's automatic transmissions learn the driver's driving style over some number of miles and adjusts the shift points to suit the driver. I drive in a very gentle way that I'm sure leaves my Rio's shift points as delivered (optimal for EPA highway cycle). So, 40+ is doable in the new Rio but, as with any car, "your mileage may vary".
Excellent built car; however, gas millage is bad. I do not shoot for 40MPG, but just in achieving 30MPG. I drive 50/50 city/highway and my gas millage is in 25-29 MPG range. If this is acceptable for some people, it is not for me!
I switched to synthetic oil and this seemed to helped a little bit....but it is still under 30MPG.
When we talk about average gas millage of 25-29 MPG, it comes to mind owning cars as Huyndai Sonata, Toyota Camry, Honda Accord...which are much larger vehicles. I chose The Rio because of its size and sticker gas millage! My advise to potential Rio owners is to think about it when they buy this car-a very well built car which does not deliver good gas millage!
1. Motorweek, the highly respected Public TV evaluator of cars got 38 mpg in their mixed use test.
2. Skeptic wrote, " I was disappointed with my 2012 Rio5's MPG at first, but about 4k I got one tank that gave me 42 MPG! On another trip at 6k I only got 38 MPG outbound, but got 43 over the same route on the return.
3. I posted my real world combined driving numbers which are between 31-32 mpg which isn't too far off from the EPA combined rating of 33 mpg.
Do your own research and try to find people who are objective and fair in their assessment. As for me, I admit that I love my RIO SX. Everybody who rides with me can't say enough good things about the car which is amazing for an economy class vehicle.
This past weekend I went for a drive of 73 miles up to the mountains and got 37.6 mpg. On that trip the first 11 miles were in town while the last 62 miles were all highway with no traffic. As I was driving my mpg kept going up on the computer so I don't know if I continued on if it would have gone higher. And in case you're wondering, I did not base my mpg on the computer which was slightly higher, at close to 39 mpg. I always check mpg the old fashioned way.
After reaching the mountains I immediately filled up and calculated mpg for my 73 miles. However, after driving in the mountains for a period of time, mpg dropped significantly. The RIO's 1.6 Liter Engine had to work very hard climbing those mountains.
It's safe to assume the trip computer is almost always slightly higher than your actual mpg. There's probably some logical, mathematical reason for that but I don't know what it is. I constantly monitor mpg the old fashioned way and never once got a real life figure that was higher than the computer number.
The example I gave in my previous post was fairly typical. The computer mpg was hovering close to 39 mpg while my actual mileage was 37.6. Would you be kind enough to do the math and give us the exact percentage the computer was off? Thanks!
"Made a trip to laughlin NV from LA. filled up right off the freeway, did 43mpg all the way to laughlin. Trip back did 37mpg, this included some city driving in laughling which isnt much. YES! i did fill up on arizona side!
Normal days i get 25-28 mpg, all city driving no highway. red lights for miles!!!"
Then, I fill up the tank and drove just in city....and got 27.5MPG.....which is actual 26MPG... Not really satisfied with this number...:( (but I guess) I have to live with that!
On the other hand, Rio's ride is excellent:), so must say that I really enjoyed my car!
Cheers!
1. When you're stopped at red light or for traffic, you're getting zero mpg.
2. When you accelerate you're burning fuel at a very high rate.
I get around 25 mpg during city only driving, sometimes slightly less which is a good 5 miles less than the EPA rating. So the RIO excels on the highway but city driving could be better. On the other hand, I think EPA city ratings are way off.
My 2002 Focus, which got 30 mpg on the highway like clockwork, would get a paltry 17-18 mpg in city only driving, despite a much higher EPA rating of 25 mpg. In light of that, I'm getting about 7-8 more mpg from my KIA ,which is a a huge improvement over the Focus, I'll take it!
As for Motorweek's results, I have to agree. Somebody must have confused highway with their mixed mileage circuit
Back to something more important. the RIO SX is a fantastic vehicle for an economy car on so many levels. Everyone who sees it and/or rides with me praises the car to no end. I'm not big on looks, but even I have to acknowledge the SX is one sleek, aerodynamic car. And I especially love the low profile tires/wheels.
Phil, I agreed with much of what you said in your last post except for fuel economy. I'm very pleased with the 31-32 mpg I get in combined driving. As I mentioned several times, I had no illusion that I would match the EPA mileage rating, but combined driving is pretty close.
In addition, on my last highway trip I got 37.6 mpg, which is also relatively close to the EPA highway rating, so I'm not complaining. Since I never expected 40 mpg, getting close to 38 is fine in my book.
The only area where I agree with you about mpg is city driving.
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Wow! When I bought the RIO I was disappointed because it didn't have the under floor tray that our KIA Forte SX has. Believe me Phil, that doesn't sound like much, but it's a nifty addition. Why? Because it increases storage significantly and helps organize everything into its own compartment.
I wonder if 2012 owners can purchase that tray? I'll have to ask at the KIA owner's website.
By the way, as much as I love my RIO, the Forte SX model is even better and a hidden gem in the automobile market. But you wouldn't like it because fuel economy isn't a major plus. The SX model has a killer 2.4 Liter engine that is soooooooooooo fast. It's like the big brother of the RIO with more storage and interior room. They even look alike.
As for the spare, at first I wasn't happy and somewhat apprehensive. But then I thought about it and realized in over 40 years of driving, I never had a flat on the road that disabled my car. Yes I had nails in tires and several slow leaks which required repair and/or replacing the tire, but never a total flat on the road.
Besides, doesn't KIA provide FREE roadside assistance the first 5 years?
http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy/heres-why-real-world-mpg-doesnt-match-epa-ra- tings.html
I claimed earlier that the EPA used E-10 gas for their tests, but this article says they use E-0. Since I use E-15 through Kansas occasionally I can attest that the amount of alcohol in the gas makes a big difference in MPG. Not mentioned in the article is that most modern automatics slowly adjust shift points based on the driver's driving style. The factories set the delivered shift points for optimal MPG over the EPA's Highway, City and Combined test "routes". Most people don't duplicate that same route in their daily drives and probably don't duplicate the EPA's "driver" action either (it's a computer). Since the manufacturers know the EPA's exact test "route", in addition to shift points they are also able to program the car's camshaft timing for optimal MPG over the test routes and, in the case of the Accent/Rio twins, include a driver controlled switch (ECO) that makes the transmission upshift sooner and smooths out the car's accelerator action (it's all controlled by the car's computer). The point of all this is that the "ringer" here is the car. Since I drive more gently than most drivers, I've been able to exceed the EPA's estimates with every car I have owned. My neighbor's smart alec kid told me if I drove any slower they would give me a parking ticket (ha ha). Using our car's trip computers I can susally beat my wife's mileage by about 20%. At 7k I'm now averaging 35 MPG using the Rio's trip computer (probably 75% rural, 25% city). That beats the heck out of my old PT Cruiser's 25 MPG average over the same mixed roads. I haven't compared the GPS's computed MPG with the Rio's trip computer, but the Rio's trip odometer is off by only 1% higher with its new tires inflated to 35 PSI. I love the Rio's looks, value and practicality, but I miss my old Cruiser.
This has nothing to do with MPG, but I've read that the only difference on the non-LED DRLs is a jumper added to a circuit board during manufacture of the Canadian bound cars.
Average 31.57 mpg
Worst 21.66
Best 37.99
For example, if you drive 10 miles to the highway, stay on the interstate for 40 miles, and then drive another 10 miles of stop and go to your destination, that is NOT highway mileage. That is mixed mileage as in 40 highway and 20 miles of stop & go driving.
With my 2012 Rio 5 SX, I'm consistently getting the following results:
City Only: 24-25 mpg
Highway Only: 37-38 mpg
Mixed: 31-32 mpg
1. The RIO is a fantastic economy car, I think it's best in class. I love my car.
2. Yes I am disappointed with city mileage. I didn't expect 30 but I figured 27 mpg would be nice.
3. I'm very pleased with my mixed mileage which is close to the 33 mpg EPA rating.
4. I'm OK with my 37-38 highway mpg results. But next month I'm going on a 1,400 mile journey (round trip) which will be all highway and I'm eager to see my mileage results.
5. EPA tests are not conducted in the real world. Did you know they're done in a lab? Anyone who expects to match their ratings is setting themselves up for disappointment.
As I've stated several times in the past, almost nobody spends 100% of their driving time on the highway. And that's the one and only time a driver can expect to come close to or match that 40 mpg figure as some have per other forums. Most of us combine stop and go with highway so our real world target is the 33 mpg mixed rating. I'm consistently getting between 31-32 mpg so I'm pleased because I never expected to match the 33 mpg EPA number.
Therefore, keep my driving habits in perspective when checking my mpg. Once again,
City Only: 24-25 mpg
Highway Only: 37-38 mpg
Combined: 31-32 mpg
Phil asked why there's such a difference between fuel economy in his Fiesta versus his RIO.
I can't answer that question any more than I can figure out why Phil's RIO mpg is so different than mine and other people, who get even better mileage than me. The only possible guess is the fact that the Fiesta has less horsepower and torque than the RIO but the following paragraph adds far more confusion to his question.
Phil said, "I get a consistent 27 mpg city and 33 mpg highway" with his RIO while my results are 25 mpg in the city and 37-38 mpg on the highway, possibly higher. I'll have a much better idea on that highway number after my 1,400 mile trip next month which will be all Interstate Driving. I suspect that I'll get close to 40 mpg but we'll see in October.
My city mpg is less than Phil's but my highway mileage is much better. Why?