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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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Comments

  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    Was British, now part of the Indian Tata auto group. Don't know whether Range Rover quality is better than when it was owned by Ford.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Why do so many believe that Chrysler is American? :sick:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Why do so many believe that Chrysler is American?

    They're Mexican, aren't they? At least, my Ram is. My Intrepid was Canadian. I guess if you want to get technical amigo, Mexico and Canada are part of America, eh? :P
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Nah, they're Italian.

    It is an interesting question and the other question is why a two-time bailout loser like Chrysler gets a free ride while GM gets hammered constantly for their one bailout.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    edited July 2013
    No offense to you Andre or and other Chrysler fans out there but they are now under the soul ownership of Fiat in Italy. Whole kit and caboodle.

    Heck, I haven't considered Chrysler an American entity myself since they were sold to Daimler which IIRC was about 15 years ago.

    I do get a kick out of the "Buy Murican" folks on other sites outside of Edmunds who still believe "Big 3" actually means something. Maybe they mean Tesla as one of them?

    Heck if this reporter wants to talk, I'll rave up and down about my Indiana built Subaru Outback or my numerous Ohio built Honda Accords... :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    It is an interesting question and the other question is why a two-time bailout loser like Chrysler gets a free ride while GM gets hammered constantly for their one bailout.

    I don't know that Chrysler's really getting a free ride. Just listen to people like Andres3 and you'll see that there are plenty of people who don't have much love for them.

    I think GM gets kicked around so much though, because they were #1 for so long, and by a very wide margin. They had a long, long way to fall, and that fall spanned for decades.

    Meanwhile, Chrysler seems to be fairly cyclical in nature, that seems to run about 10 years, more or less. Usually in the middle of the decade, they're riding high, but towards the end of it they're crashing and burning. It's not 100% accurate, but seems fairly consistent. And I think people get used to that.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    It doesn't take Einstein to figure it out, but I always laugh at the insinuation on various boards that virtually all 'domestic' brands are built in Canada or Mexico!

    No Chevrolet cars are built in Mexico for the U.S. market, and some trucks are--though not all.

    All one has to do is choose an American make, check out window stickers and look for parts content, assembly location, and assembly location of engine and transmission. All are on the window sticker.

    It rankles a lot of people, but for all the talk about how 'American' Toyota and Honda are, the tsunami completely....completely...hamstrung production for them, here and there. I don't think we're talking about where the spare tires come from or anything like that. ;)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    edited July 2013
    Wouldn't you want to post that in the

    Honda Fit Topic

    :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Member Posts: 27,132
    >Wouldn't you want to post that in the Honda Fit Topic.

    That's a good idea to post it there too. :P

    2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,

  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    Oby, are GM recalls the only ones to get posted here? Although, there haven't been hardly any of late compared to everybody else.

    The Fit is sold here, so it's relevant news.
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    Looks like Toyota is continuing in the trails forged by "Old GM" regarding fleet sales...but Malibu is really gunning for "2013 Fleet Queen Crown". :blush:

    We've been watching for some time now as Toyota has piled more incentives on the hood of its Camry sedan, and Automotive News reports that the we're not the only ones with raised eyebrows. The current Camry hasn't even been on the market for two years, but the family sedan segment is more hotly contested than it has been in years. It's that high level of competition that has led the automaker to uncharacteristically add more money on the hood in order to assure it maintains its long-held title of America's Best-Selling Car, a mantle it has owned for a dozen years. It's ramping up fleet sales, too.

    According to the analysts at TrueCar, Toyota has bumped incentives per unit every month this year, now totaling some $2,750 as of May, a 38-percent hike over this time last year. That's more spiff money than the segment's other best sellers, the Nissan Altima ($2,400), Ford Fusion ($2,300) and Honda Accord ($1,400), all of whom have actually decreased their incentive spend by 20- to 40-percent over the same period.

    The ramp up in incentive spending and fleet sales has analysts concerned that Toyota will tarnish the Camry's historically sterling resale value. ALG pegs the 2013 Camry's current 36-month residual value at 54.4 percent, well ahead of the segment average's 50.9 percent (but shy of the Accord's 55.6 percent). However, analysts are concerned that as the current generation ages, their resale values will eventually plummet if incentives continue to increase as Toyota looks to keep the Camry's best-selling car crown going forward.

    Automotive News cites R.L. Polk data in noting that many of the family sedan segment's heavyweights are running above 30-percent fleet sales, including the Altima, Fusion and Chevrolet Malibu, while the Camry is expected to finish the year under 15 percent. Even so, Camry sales to fleets are ahead of this time last year (despite 2012's numbers having sizable catch-up sales after 2011's tsunami-tightened supplies). Honda has long touted its low fleet sale percentage, and the new Accord is no different – its fleet sales sit at 1 percent.
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    edited July 2013
    For myself I'd be more interested in GM recalls as I still own one. Haven't owned a Honda since 1983 and certainly not one that looks like a Fit.

    GM should invest into a papermill. On a per model basis I have never seen a vehicle manufacturer issue so many TSBs and recalls per model. For example the Acadia has a total of 222 combined TSBs and recalls between 2008-2013. Even if some are for minor details like

    Electrical - Reducing Intermittent Electrical Concerns
    This bulletin is being revised to add additional information and to provide a dedicated Labor Operation for Recrimping Electrical Terminals. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-03-009 (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).
    Electrical Intermittents / Recrimping Terminals
    Electrical Intermittents can be a source of frustration for technicians and extended downtime for vehicles. Some circuits in vehicles are not only susceptible to an intermittent connection, but high resistance may also cause erratic operation or DTCs. An often overlooked possibility in the diagnostics of intermittents is the quality of the terminal crimps.

    they all add up. Whether they impact the reliability of the vehicle or not the sheer number of them says a lot.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Old Chrysler repaid the loan EARLY. Fiat repaid the loan. GM is still scre#### us, that's why.
  • fho2008fho2008 Member Posts: 393
    Shut down GMs Colorado plant in the USA also.....electronics came from Japan.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Americans are buying new cars and trucks at the fastest rate since 2007 as they replace the oldest vehicles ever on U.S. roads. Automakers including Chrysler and analysts said they expect pent-up demand, attractive financing offers and an improving economy will keep propelling industry sales as the Federal Reserve winds down its unprecedented easing programs.

    “The same factors are still in place: Pent-up demand is unleashing, credit is cheap and widely available, and in terms of trucks, it’s all about the economy recovering and housing starts,” Michelle Krebs, an analyst at auto researcher Edmunds.com, said in a telephone interview."

    GM to Ford Top Estimates as U.S. Sales at 66-Month High (bloomberg.com)
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Americans are buying new cars and trucks at the fastest rate since 2007 as they replace the oldest vehicles ever on U.S. roads.

    For some reason, I noticed yesterday just how ratty a lot of cars on the road are getting. Now, I did a lot of running around yesterday, taking my Buick to the shop for failed brakes, then going to the Nissan dealer with my uncle in his ratty Corolla to look at cars, and then later to the gas station and McDonalds. It just seemed like everywhere I looked, there were cars that just seemed to be in pain...either the way they sounded, the way they looked, or both.

    Maybe I was more in tune with it though, after dealing with my brake-less Buick and my uncle's ratty Corolla!
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    What happened to your brakes?
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Pedal went to the floor on Sunday. Nice little scare. :surprise: We limped it up to the mechanic yesterday, and fortunately it was just a rusted line. They replaced the bad line, inspected the others, flushed and refilled, replaced a bleeder screw, and other fussing around, and now it's ready to go. Came to $400, so not too painful I guess. I was pretty miffed the other day, half tempted to dump it and get something else. But, now I think I'll keep it. Until it breaks again, I guess.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    For some reason, I noticed yesterday just how ratty a lot of cars on the road are getting

    I know - I was in several newish cabs last week and now the old van and Subaru are looking a bit long in the tooth. But I'll get over it. :shades:
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    Yikes, that would scare the bejeezus out of me if that ever happened.

    The thing is like 15 years old tho isn't it? So stuff like that I guess is to be expected...
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    The thing is like 15 years old tho isn't it? So stuff like that I guess is to be expected...

    Yep, as the old saying goes, "GM cars run bad longer than most cars run at all!" :P

    Oddly, the final nail in the coffin for the only other Buick I ever owned, my grandmother's old '85 LeSabre, was brake failure as well. It was almost 18 years old, had about 157,000 miles on it, needed a lot of other work, was one car too many, so we just got rid of it.

    One good thing about old Chryslers, is that when the brakes fail, the hand brake is a lot easier to use than the foot brake on the GM cars! Came in very handy the times I've had to drive my '57 DeSoto, '67 Newport, and '68 Dart brakeless. :blush:
  • dieselonedieselone Member Posts: 5,729
    edited July 2013
    Yikes, that would scare the bejeezus out of me if that ever happened.

    The thing is like 15 years old tho isn't it? So stuff like that I guess is to be expected...


    Yeah, I've been there. I helped a buddy launch his boat last summer with his '97 F150. While backing down a steep ramp a brake line failed and we would have ended up in the lake (truck and all) if not for the parking brake locking up the rear wheels. Scared the you know what out of me.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited July 2013
    Top 10 Car Sales - June
    #1 Camry
    #2 Cruze :surprise:
    #3 Accord
    #4 Civic
    #5 Altima
    #6 Corolla
    #7 Fusion
    #8 Focus
    #9 Elantra
    #10 Malibu
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    YTD June 2013
    Mustang = 43,111 :D
    Camaro = 42,312 :cry:
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Charger sales were around 8,000 this month but I don't see YTD numbers.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Member Posts: 16,054
    Looks like Toyota is continuing in the trails forged by "Old GM" regarding fleet sales...but Malibu is really gunning for "2013 Fleet Queen Crown".

    Right up there with the new Fusion and the new Altima. (You left that out of your summary...shocker!)
    2024 Chevrolet Corvette Stingray 2LT; 2019 Chevrolet Equinox LT; 2015 Chevrolet Cruze LS
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    Look at the brand considered most patriotic in the USA Today article...

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/driveon/2013/07/01/most-patriotic-brands-jeep/2481- 337/
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I think the Cruze looks like a good economy compact car from the outside. Now is the inside as good as the outside? Are the guts any good?

    What are they selling for?
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • tlongtlong Member Posts: 5,194
    I think the Cruze looks like a good economy compact car from the outside. Now is the inside as good as the outside? Are the guts any good?

    I sat in a top line Cruze at the auto show when it first came out and I thought the interior was impressively high quality. At the time the reviews said the drivetrain was a bit unrefined. Don't know if that's changed.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I'm impressed that the Malibu made it into that top ten list. I guess they're finally starting to hit their stride? I've been seeing them more and more around these parts, and about a month ago when I went out to Ohio to hit the amusement parks, I noticed a very good showing of them out there.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    June Charger sales = 9,812
    YTD = 51,981
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Wow, outselling the Camaro and the Mustang then eh? Surprised.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Wow, outselling the Camaro and the Mustang then eh? Surprised.

    But that's Charger, not Challenger. Unless CircleW just made a typo?

    That just got me thinking...the current Challenger has managed to outlive the original! The original just lasted five years, 1970-74, whereas the current model has made it for 6 (2008-2013) so far.

    I wonder if they've made more new Challengers than the original? The original only sold well for the first year or so, before rising insurance rates, gasoline prices, looming government intervention, and shifting market tastes started killing off performance cars in general. Plus, it wasn't long before people discovered that a Demon or Duster would beat a Challenger (or Barracuda) engine for engine, and was a lot cheaper to buy. Heck, there was one year, 1975 I think, that a Duster 360 was actually the fastest Big-Three car available. Quicker than a Camaro, Trans Am, or even a Corvette.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited July 2013
    Yeah, the Challenger is the one comparable to the Mustang and Camaro. the Charger is more in a class by itself. Maybe the Taurus get cross-shopped with it. Still surprised by the number though; that's a lot of cars for any manufacturer.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    But does this Challenger count?

    image

    :shades:
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    I was thinking of that one as well. I think they sold from 1978-83, so the new Charger would have to make it through 2014 to beat that one.

    Those little Mitsubishi-based Challengers were probably considered an insult to the Challenger name, but I kinda liked them. There was a Plymouth version as well, called the Sapporo. I don't think Mitsubishi sold them under their own name though, at least not in the US market.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,092
    edited July 2013
    I'd bet the current Challenger will make it past 2014, unless Fiat does away with the Dodge brand or something. And then it just becomes a Chrysler.

    The Mitsu Challenger was badged as Galant when wearing the diamond badge. I don't think USA got the Galant until around 1987. Those little coupes were well styled for the time, and a true hardtop is always a nice thing to see.
  • circlewcirclew Member Posts: 8,666
    edited July 2013
    Challenger June = 5,101
    YTD Challenger = 29,982

    I'm sure fleet has to do with the Charger as I see alot of Police cars in Charger trim. :)
    Challenger Sales
    2008 = 17,423
    2009 =25,852
    2010 = 36,791
    2011 = 39,534
    2012 = 43,119

    I still believe it is a better take on the retro look vs. the Mustang and the Camaro.

    Mustang is still the all-time King to Mr. Shocker's dismay! ;)

    Ford Mustang outsells rival Chevrolet Camaro

    Ford's chief sales number keeper, Erich Merkle, likes to point out that Mustang outsells Camaro by a wide margin over the longer term. Since 2004, Ford has sold 1,020,123 Mustangs worldwide. Chevrolet sold 345,026. Of course, during much that time, the Camaro was on ice, not being produced.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    I should know! Now I've got a big paint chip missing off the decklid of my Mercury Grand Marquis! :mad: A lot of cars were literally falling apart after WWII because nobody could buy new cars from 1942 through 1945.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    A neighbor's mother just got a new red Cruze the other week.
  • lemkolemko Member Posts: 15,261
    Malibus are dirt common around here. I see one on every other block on my way to work.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Americans aren't turning their backs on cars, they are just getting smarter about how they use them. With gasoline more expensive and fitness more valued, they are more willing to leave their car in the garage and walk or bike or car-share on short trips. They still support Detroit, but they also have access to the widest variety of makes and models -- half of them import brands -- in recent history, and all of them available at the most reasonable prices anywhere in the world."

    America's love affair with its cars is far from over (CNN)
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    During most of my lifetime, I remember cars being rather unique by brand. Nothing else really looked much like a 57 Chevrolet, a 65 Mustang or a 68 Roadrunner, etc.

    Sure, GM models resembled each other to an extent, as did Ford and Chrysler, but there wasn't a lot of confusion between manufacturers.

    Maybe its just me and my age, but today so many cars resemble other manufacturers models that I sometimes find it difficult to make out the manufacturer without getting really close to the vehicle.... Sometimes I actually have to see the model name on the car to know who made it.

    Some confusion is inevitable, I guess, as the laws of aerodynamics are the same for every car maker.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Sure, GM models resembled each other to an extent, as did Ford and Chrysler, but there wasn't a lot of confusion between manufacturers.

    Sometimes I would see a slight similarity across manufacturers, as if one was inspired a bit by the other. For example, to me a '61-62 Cadillac seems just a faint bit Ford-ish in the grille. A '65 Comet, with its stacked headlights and split grille, makes me think a bit of a Pontiac Whenever I see a late 60's Rambler Rebel (or I guess, AMC by that time?) it makes me think of a late 60's Mopar intermediate, even though I believe the Rebel was all-new for '67, so it beat out the Mopars by a year.

    But, by and large yeah, they had much more individuality than they do today. But, the manufacturers can still come up with products like a Challenger, Charger, Beetle, and Mustang, which bear a strong resemblance to their ancestors, yet still manage to be aerodynamic.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited July 2013
    Good points! Difficulties in identifying different manufacturers, or even different models and trim levels, is a fairly recent phenomenon for me too.
  • andre1969andre1969 Member Posts: 25,652
    Difficulties in identifying different manufacturers, or even different models and trim levels, is a fairly recent phenomenon for me too.

    If you go back far enough, I have trouble identifying a lot of the really old cars, too. For instance, the other day when we dropped my Buick off at the mechanic for its brake work, they had an old 30's car on their lot that looked like it had been modified a bit. I guessed it was some kind of GM product, but my uncle had to actually walk over to it to tell that it was a Chevy. And today, when I picked up the Buick from the mechanic, they had that car in the shop, and I asked the mechanic about it. He said that he thought it was a '37 Chevy.

    But then, they had a '55 Bel Air hardtop coupe sitting out in their yard, and when I saw it, it was instantly recognizable as such.

    I wonder, if the younger generations of today can tell today's more modern cars apart better than we can? And perhaps, older generations could differentiate among those older cars better than we can as well, because they were more into them?

    I used to keep up with all the styling changes when I was younger, but anymore, it just seems like everything goes by in a blur, and buying a new car seems more like a chore than an adventure.
  • busirisbusiris Member Posts: 3,490
    I wonder, if the younger generations of today can tell today's more modern cars apart better than we can? And perhaps, older generations could differentiate among those older cars better than we can as well, because they were more into them?

    I dunno....

    From what interaction I've had with my children's generation, the vast majority of young people today aren't interested very much in automobiles, other than a device to get them where they want to go. I think the increase in the young people today NOT getting, or delaying getting their DL's supports that POV.
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    I'm sure a lot of young people take a more keen interest in researching automobiles after owning a bad one, much like my experience.

    Frankly, with all the available research and data out there, there is no excuse to end up with something you'll regret, other than laziness.

    There are still people out there that think a sales person has their interests in mind.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
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