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The Current State of the US Auto Market

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  • scwmcanscwmcan Niagara, CanadaPosts: 394
    You shouldn't feel bad at even the $40 price. Up here Mercedes charges $150 to program a fob for a smart, and if you buy one from them you are looking at $450 for a new key, just outrageous.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    edited September 2013
    Toyota and GM Chevy Recalls Total Over 650,000

    By Douglas A. McIntyre September 4, 2013 6:28 am EDT


    Two weeks ago, General Motors Co. (NYSE: GM) recalled nearly 293,000 Chevrolet Cruze models. In these, the power-assisted brakes can fail, which ought to make owners particularly nervous.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited September 2013
    I had completely missed both the Chevy and Toyota recalls from 3 1/2 weeks back.

    Since BMW has the same problem, one cannot assume greater quality with the more one pays, I guess.

    The comments below the BMW recall posting in autoblog are amusing IMHO, although there is never a hint of balance in any posts, ever, after a recall post on that site! LOL
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,883
    What that means is that the power assist fails---the brakes don't actually fail--you can still stop the car. I guess freaking people out is what the media likes to do.

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  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 7,820
    They were offered through 2005.

    My neighbor and his family must've had 5 of them over the years. He commuted about 600 miles a week and passed them down every 2-3 years through his 4 kids. AFAIK, some of the cars went off to college and then came back.

    There are 3 left in his driveway and only one of them is in rough shape. I think it might be the first one.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited September 2013
    That's interesting. I've only ever owned one Mopar product (older daughter has it at college now), but I did think at the time that those first-generation Neon coupes were good-looking cars. As I said, I constantly see second-generation Neons that don't look or sound bad from behind. ;)
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,722
    My brother had a nearly-new 1st gen Neon coupe. It eventually got hit, and he was thankful - he came to loathe the neon for constant minor issues. He said the V6 Sundance Duster that replaced it (he has a minor Mopar fixation at times) was a better car.
  • nvbankernvbanker Posts: 7,285
    I was not really a MOPAR fan for decades - but have changed my opinion a bit. Had an 07 Pacifica which my daughter drove HARD for a few years. At 140,000 miles, it was still going fairly strong. AC problems were the major functional issue, most of the options inside were deceased, and I became concerned about the transmission which I thought was way overdue for a breakdown, and I sold it. But for all the hard work, it held up really well. I am also quite impressed with the longevity of the Charger/300s.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,971
    Even the 2nd generation Neon is a RARE sight here in CA, and when you do see them (or the rare 1st generation), they look like a pile!

    You'll get a kick out of this...on Saturday I was walking through a parking lot with a friend, who's currently car-less. He lives in DC and can get most places that he needs to on a bike. Anyway, he's also pretty clueless when it comes to cars. He was talking about wanting to get one, and asked what I thought of the Neon?!

    At first I wondered what made him drag that name up, but then I noticed that there was one in the parking lot, that he spotted, and for some reason happened to fixate on. So, I had to clue him in that they haven't built a Neon since probably late 2004, early 2005 at the best. And that, to put it nicely, they're not very good cars.

    I have a friend who had a second-gen Neon, and I don't think he had any real issues with it. But, someone sideswiped it while it was parked, and the damage was just enough to total it, because of the low book value.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America: I70 & I75Posts: 18,197
    edited October 2013
    I thought of this discussion today when I saw a nice red Neon parked along the I-75 freeway between the ramp lane and 4 travel lanes in a broad striped area.

    Looked okay. Hood closed. No driver. No rust. Must have run out of gas.

    Tonight filling up my car before midnight using my $1.00 Kroger discount, an early 20s guy was filling up a sparkling Neon. Toyota sand would be the name of the light tan color in my mind. But it was polished and glistened as did the nice wheels.
  • circlewcirclew Posts: 8,372
    ...for now. :)

    image
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Posts: 4,175
    Not a truck guy myself, but who the heck buys 2WD pickups?
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited October 2013
    That's nice, but even to me, a GM owner, there are so many things more than MPG that need to be considered.

    Strictly a guess on my part, based on people I know with trucks, but I bet 2WD outsells 4WD--at least here...and we get snowy winters here.
  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,650
    edited October 2013
    Overall I'd bet 2wd outsells 4wd. If all you need is on road heavy hauling or towing, then 4wd is a waste. I wanted 4wd for winter and pulling a heavy boat up potentially slick launch ramps. Most of the time I don't need it, but its critical when I do.

    As for MPG. Uplander is correct. To many other factors. Plus the ratings among the leading trucks are close enough that it doesn't make a big difference.
  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    Overall I'd bet 2wd outsells 4wd

    I'm certain your correct, but I can't find anything to back that up. I just spent 10 minutes with google, yahoo, bing, and ask. No answers, just advertisements. Someone needs to come up with a new online search engine which will NOT feature advertisements. I'll bet it would be immensely popular, but then, how would they make money?

    Having looked at new trucks recently, 3 Chevy dealers, 3 Ford Dealers, 2 Dodge dealers, 2 Toyota dealers, and 1 Nissan, I can tell you that they're stocking about four times as many 2wd as 4wd new trucks. Of course, this is in Houston, where it snows about as often as Haley's comet makes a fly by.
  • suydamsuydam Posts: 971
    I live in a rural area where there is snowy weather. I see both 2WD and 4WD. I do know resale value is always much higher on a 4WD which can be 20 years old and look it but still sell well. But it costs more upfront so that may be a consideration for a lot of people.
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,562
    edited October 2013
    I sold my in-law's old beat-up pickup a few years back for them. Put it on craigslist for TMV and the buyer was a mechanic and knew the truck. I put the ad online around 10pm and he was banging on their door at 8 am since he also knew where they lived. Guess I should have held out for more money but the in-laws were thrilled that it brought $800.

    It was a 1990 Ford F-150 XLT Lariat 2WD Nevada truck with just under 100k.

    Last year was a bit higher than the norm, but we got 244 inches of snow. :-) I'm assuming the buyer didn't make a plow truck out of it, lol.

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  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    edited October 2013
    I wondered the same thing? Obviously states that have a lot of pavement, dry flat roads, and 1st time 2WD purchasers cuz the 'real' truck which gets traction front and rear costs so much, will skew the stats to probably favour 2WD.

    But here in southern ON, pick any NA dealer of fullsized p/ups, and the ratio is hugely in favour of 4WD. And not 'just' 4WD but extended/quad cab 'cars' in truck clothing. Just a couple weeks ago as a firsthand example but have many others in the past..I was looking at Rams, and there was only ONE 2WD! One 4x4 dually, 3 4WD 8' box, and I think I counted 11 4WD extended/quad cabs. And the majority of those had sunroofs...ugh...so trimmed very highend.

    So when I see EPA and then in SMALL print at the bottom indicating 2WD on a vehicle which is OFTEN sold in much thirstier forms, I find it a bit misleading. Especially so if the high mileage champ falls from first place once 4x4 is spec'd.

    When you see Ram TV ads, they brag about the having the BEST FE in the class with the Pentastar and 8 sp combo. What they fail to say though is that that combo is a substantial price upgrade from base powertrains with some combos still offering only 6 and even antiquated FOUR sp transmissions.

    So...who needs 4WD? A lot more customers than many might initially think. And it's not just boat haulers that need grip on the fr axle on slippery ramps. It's also RV haulers who got tired of being stuck in wet grass trying to park their housetrailer in the the nice spot. Just take a random walk thru any trailer park within 200 miles in any direction around here and you will see very VERY few 2WD trucks towing a house trailer. And if you do spot one and ask, why the 2WD? the guy will say, "Mistake...never again". Occasionally you will find the obstinate personality that defends the 2WD to the death, but if you look at his camp sight, you will see that the trailer isn't really sitting on the high grd where he had tried for, and of course there is the mud 3/4 of the way up his sidewalls on the tires with a mess of spin marks on the site. lol..

    My Uncle falls into that category...or at least used to. For years he bought 2WD and swore that's all anyone needs anytime he saw me with the 4x4 F150 paint disaster that I had at the time. But fast forward a couple decades and I saw him at the doctors office a couple months back and guess what? His brand new shiny Ram had both axles powered up. haha

    Who else needs 4WD? Anyone who lives or drives regularly in hilly terrain in the snow or often not loaded. There are dirt driveways around here that go down into private driveways on the lakes, that even in the summer time, are so steep that if they have not been paved, you can't get out with 2WD unless you are loaded with 700 lb or more in the back.

    Anyone who ever needs to plow snow too..
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 21,971
    Check out the infestation I found while out driving...

    image

    They're coming to geeeet you Bah-bra (er, I mean, Andres3) ;-P
  • fintailfintail Posts: 33,722
    In the 5th Ave, I presume
  • ohenryxohenryx Posts: 285
    I’m going to have to take strong exception to your statements. I owned two 5th wheel travel trailers for a total of 10 years. I pulled with a 96 Ford F250 with a 460 cid gas engine for 3 years, and then with a 2000 F250 with the 7.3L diesel for the remaining 7 years. Both were two wheel drive, and in that period of 10 years I never once saw any situation where I wanted much less needed 4 wheel drive. Not once, not ever.

    I never once talked to an owner who said he wished he had the 4 wheel drive. I did talk to a number of owners who regretted buying a 4 wheel drive truck. When you have to go to the expense of flipping the axles to get the trailer high enough to clear the fenders on your jacked up 4 wheel drive truck, well…

    Perhaps we just do an entirely different kind of camping. I went to state parks, RV campgrounds, those kinds of places. Places where the sites were PAVED, the roads leading up to the sites were PAVED. You have heard of paved roads, right? Asphalt, concrete, etc, any of this sound familiar to you?
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    "U.S. consumer demand for new vehicles cooled slightly in September, as expected, as Ford Motor Co topped analysts' expectations, but General Motors Co fell short"

    Emotorcons are back! :)
  • steverstever Viva Las CrucesPosts: 40,562
    edited October 2013
    Just got back from the in-laws. He used his 2WD F-150 to put his sailboat in and out of the water at Lake Tahoe. In the winter, he'd haul his two snowmachines up from Carson City with the same rig. He did note that they were good about keeping the roads clear.

    (Emotorcon buttons are still missing, at least for some of us, in replies, although you can hand code them in. :D)

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  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,650
    edited October 2013
    I spend a lot of time among campers. I'd say most 5th wheel campers don't need 4wd as they'd never put their expensive rv anywhere but on a gravel or cement/paved campsite. That said, there are always exceptions. A 2wd truck can certainly launch and retrieve a boat.

    Most people I know with pickups get them with 4wd. I'd guess the majority of 2wd truck sales are to fleets. And around here anyway, a 2wd truck will get hit hard on price at resale.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 44,883
    Better ground clearance.

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  • dieselonedieselone Posts: 5,650
    edited October 2013
    Ford was only about 2k units away from GM for the month. The F150 outsold the Silverado/Sierra combined by 14,512 units in September. I think I read somewhere GM has shortage of v8s. Also the Cruze had a bad month. Only 12k sold. GM was down almost 11% for the month vs. Ford being nearly 6% up.
  • uplanderguyuplanderguy Kent, OHPosts: 7,494
    edited October 2013
    Interesting about the Cruze, considering how well it has done recently. Not that this would make any difference that I'm aware of, but I saw 2014 Cruzes at my dealer in at least early August if not late July. Even then, that struck me as very, very early. The truck sales aren't surprising; the '14's have been trickling in just recently and I'm not certain when production of '13's had ended.
  • tlongtlong CaliforniaPosts: 4,752
    GM claimed one of the reasons Sept was lower was due to reduced fleet sales. I see a lot of Cruze rentals; perhaps that's one reason.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Posts: 2,345
    ’m going to have to take strong exception to your statements.

    Ya? Well I'm going to have to take strong exception to the condescension of your post. As in:

    Places where the sites were PAVED, the roads leading up to the sites were PAVED. You have heard of paved roads, right? Asphalt, concrete, etc, any of this sound familiar to you?

    I already covered the PAVED road/lane exception. You must be hard up in wanting an argument to use that one. Well you ain't gonna get one here. If I'm going to debate something with someone, I make sure I have at least a somewhat credible/rational opponent. Consider this a favour to ya to even point out how outta line you are.

    Plus, it would seem you totally ignored the 2WD to 4x4 ratio at local dealers in my area. Like I say, hard up for an argument. pfffftttttt..
This discussion has been closed.