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Is Tesla A Game Changer?

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Comments

  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    edited October 2013
    Put all that money into real world infrastructure improvements (not just to help my local bicyclists who want all the rights and none of the responsibilities) rather than helping the expensive toy car of people who have benefited most from a generation of questionable economic policy.

    Maybe some powers that be have speculated in the stock, and this is a way to keep the bubble afloat.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    the benefits of bicycles lanes don't even need the input or attitude of the bicyclist---each bike is one less car on the road, which is the whole point. Think of a bike as a parking space reserved for you :)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    You do need the cooperation of the bicyclist though, to obey traffic rules, stay in his lane, etc. That's where the rights vs responsibilities come in to play. I'm still waiting to be hit by one while I am jogging, so he can buy me a new house ;)

    Often when I see a bicyclist, it is a smarmy middle aged lawyer type in ridiculous gear, probably out on paid time, heading back to his toy car that everyone else subsidized.

    Still more of a recreational activity rather than a commuting option for the masses in my area anyway, which has cold rain for half the year. When it's 40F and pouring in December and the destination is 10 miles away, it just doesn't work.

    A topic for a different thread, I think. This one is to admire the stock bubble ;)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I think my point was at least trying to be on-topic---that if the EV driver can feel environmentally smug about his choice, why not the bicyclist about his?

    It seems people buy "lifestyles", they don't crunch the numbers to see what actually makes sense.

    Tesla isn't a game changer because it's still the same game they're playing. You can wear any jersey you want but it's still 4 downs and 100 yards.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    edited October 2013
    Oh, no doubt there's as much smug in the typical bicycle commuter as there is in the typical Prius or EV driver. More aggression, too. I don't know how much either are justified.

    I took a number of ~300 mile drives last week in an efficient car that didn't require subsidies. When the Tesla gets there, maybe the game will change.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Unlike bad car drivers though, aggressive bicyclists have a self-cancelling feature.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    Happens to some bad car drivers too.

    On that note, I bet the Tesla will rack up casualty numbers far lower than the vehicle fleet in general - as cars in its price range tend to do.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    While I haven't seen any numbers, my guess is that the average Tesla will be driven fewer miles per year than the average car and, maybe, fewer than the average luxury car too. I say this because I've read that Teslas are most often 3rd, 4th and 5th cars in households. I met just such a person last week, who, in addition to a recently purchased Model S, also owns a Cadillac and a 5-Series. His wife drives the Caddy, and he plans to keep all three.

    Also contributing to lower casualties, people who can afford Teslas tend to fly more, rather than drive. I'm sure these factors won't be included in marketing materials touting Tesla's safety.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    October 26, 2013 - FRANKFURT (Reuters)

    "Tesla Motors is aiming to sell around 10,000 cars a year in Germany by 2015 as it builds out its networks of charging stations, Elon Musk told a German paper."
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    Sounds like people who need that rebate! It'll trickle down, I promise.

    re: Germany, I'd wager the gvt there will issue similar incentives (there are already carbon and congestion charges that EVs can dodge), and Germans do like tech. With high population densities and lots of good local infrastructure, developed Europe might be a great market for expansion.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    edited October 2013
    I'll give credit where credit is due; under Elon Musk's leadership his company created the best electric car ever produced. By many measures, the Model S is an outstanding automobile. Compared with it's internal combustion and hybrid rivals it falls short on range, the Achilles heel of all electric vehicles. Even there, though, it does exceptionally well, albeit at a high cost.

    I'd argue that the S has been more of a product success than a commercial one so far, because without the subsidies and other legislated advantages it wouldn't sell in nearly the numbers that it does.

    Due to the product and impressive sales in the luxury class, considering that Tesla is a fairly new company, Musk enjoys exalted status among many. He's been compared with Steve Jobs and Jeff Bezos. Some say that, in addition to being a tech genius, Musk is an automotive genius (more on that below). I say, not so fast. It's too early to put him in that category because he has yet to prove that the success of the Model S is scalable at lower price points, with fewer incentives.

    Henry Ford, Karl Benz, Andre Citroen and Soichiro Honda didn't have the government backing and support that electric cars enjoy, so it's premature to call Musk an automotive genius. I'll put him in the same category as Ford, Benz, Citroen and Honda if the Models X and mass market E are commercial successes. If they achieve this based on product excellence, and are competitive on price, it'll prove that Tesla's recipe is scalable. If Tesla is in business as a major car producer in 10 years, Musk will have succeeded where others, such as Henry Kaiser, John DeLorean and Preston Tucker, failed.

    One area where Musk exceeds the earlier automotive greats is his marketing and public relations abilities. If only Henrik Fisker had had those talents Tesla might have another upstart rival. Come to think of it, DeLorean was also a skillful promoter. Maybe more flash than substance there.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    edited October 2013
    "Oh, no doubt there's as much smug in the typical bicycle commuter as there is in the typical Prius or EV driver. More aggression, too. I don't know how much either are justified."

    As far as justification, per fueleconomy.gov (using 2012 modesl in their most fuel-efficient version)
    http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=31788&id=31374&id=31765&id=- - - 31767
    an Accord, Camry, or Malibu, on gas you'll average about 28mpg and 50mpg in a Prius, with the reliability of a Prius on par with an Accord & Camry and better than a Malibu. The battery of a Prius has a longevity in the few hundreds of thousands of miles. If you kept each car 5 years and drove 15,000 miles per year with gas averaging $3.50/gal, you'd save $4,125. Since it's such a reliable car, driving 10 years at 150,000 miles trouble-free is the norm and that would save over $8K in gas. The Prius being a hatchback has more cargo space at 21CuFt when compared to the 15CuFt standard on most mid-sized sedans. It is slightly narrower, so three wide bodies in the backseat of a Prius would be less comfortable than in most mid-sized sedans, but legroom & headroom in the Prius is about the same.

    Then you have the Prius V, which has about the same cargo and passenger space of a small SUV (RAV4, CRV, Escape, etc., but will save you $4250 in gas over 5 years based on fueleconomy.gov comparison: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=32196&id=32128&id=31481&id=- - - 31836

    Again, being highly reliable, there's no reason the Prius V won't go trouble-free for 10 years 150-200,000 miles, saving $8,500 in gas. As far the hybrid "price premium," similarly equipped small SUVs will cost in the upper $20K to lower $30K price range depending on options. With respect to the regular Prius, it will cost in the mid-$20sK to the upper $20sK again, depending on options, which is also comparable to similarly equipped mid sized sedans. Even if you end up paying a couple of thousand more for either the Prius V or regular Prius, the over $8,000 you save in gas (assuming the price of gas remains around $3.5/gal--if you think it will go up more than so will the savings) will more than compensate for the increased initial cost. The resale value of a Prius is better too than an Accord or Camry. I've seen 8 year old Accords and Camrys for sale with 150,000 miles for $5,000, but a Prius will run about $7000 with the same age/miles.

    So if a person is looking for a highly reliable car to hold 4 adults comfortably with 21CuFt of cargo space behind the second row, I'd say a Prius would be easily justified. Similarly, the Prius V would be easily justified if looking for a something with a small SUV cargo area, as the Prius V has 34CuFt of cargo space behind the second row. The only "green" image you need to have is the image of wanting to save yourself green-backs in the long term of car ownership.

    P.S. VW TDI diesels, while averaging MPG in between gassers and hybrids are an option, but to me the long-term quality and reliability of VW with respect to their electrical systems, transmissions and other components, as well as the higher cost of diesel fuel make diesels a non-option for me.

    P.P.S. I've driven sports cars (eg Mazda RX-7) and while I agree that the Prius may not be the sportiest car out there, for 99% of local and highway driving where sporty driving doesn't even occur, I'd rather be in a Prius than in some sporty car that I can't even use.

    P.P.P.S. Just found an interesting article from Motor Trend:

    http://wot.motortrend.com/rental-review-2012-toyota-prius-a-good-camry-i-4-alter- - native-419187.html#axzz2j1HkEB2N

    "As it is, the current-generation Toyota Prius makes a decent argument for itself as a midsize sedan alternative. Based on my short 350 miles behind the wheel of a 2012 Prius, it’s clear you do give up a lot in the form of acceleration, steering feel, and handling, but lots of people don’t care about handling as they crawl at 10 mph home in rush hour traffic."

    PPPPS Here's the Oct 28 Motor Trend comparison:
    http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/alternative/1312_the_big_test_2013_2014_hybr- id_and_diesel_sedan_comparison/viewall.html

    "The 5-year cost of ownership order is, best to worst: Prius, Civic Hybrid, Jetta TDI, Cruze Diesel, Jetta Hybrid."

    Here's their bottom line:
    "No driving enthusiast wants to admit the Prius is good in any way. But since it'll constantly have your back at the gas pump and is least likely to nickel-and-dime you over 5 years, it earns second place. The first-place Jetta TDI punches above its weight, delivering beyond its stated ability. It's easy to live with and always satisfying from behind the wheel. It does more with less, which ultimately is the definition of proper efficiency."

    But again for me, long-term reliability and cost of ownership outweighs the better drive. And since Motor Trend is more for "drivers" cars, it's not surprising that they put the Prius as #2 behind the TDI, but back to the first article, "lots of people don’t care about handling as they crawl at 10 mph home in rush hour traffic." To me driving a sporty car at 2% of it's capability which occurs 99% of the time is no fun at all and not worth the "fun" of the other 1% of time you're zooming on a highway entrance/exit ramp!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Great post!

    In the Tesla owners' income bracket, "cost to own" simply isn't being factored---that's fine for a boutique automaker but not for a mass-market one.
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    edited October 2013
    cost to own" simply isn't being factored---that's fine for a boutique automaker but not for a mass-market one.

    But why does Tesla have to be a mass-market automobile? If Tesla follows this strategy it will become yet another failed venture. And here is why.

    The average transaction price of car today is about $31K. If Tesla were to sell its vehicles at $31K every auto maker would join the fray (as they have done with hybrids) and Tesla would have to compete on price -- a strategy it cannot win, not to mention diminishing the brand's image and cachet.

    Free advice to Tesla, target the high-end market in North America and Europe. Even Toyota (Lexus), Nissan (Infiniti) and Honda(Acura) have realized that their real profits come from the marque brands.

    Consider this fact. Luxury brands make up 9% of automakers' sales, but 50% of their world-wide profits. I rest my case.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think Tesla can mimic the Ferrari business model. There is simply no passion or heritage whatsoever in an EV. It's a boutique toy at this point. It's an $80000 iPad right now.

    I can't believe Tesla is actually making any real money doing what it is doing. All I see is a high burn rate.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    edited October 2013
    If it wants to avoid backlash from undeserved perks given to buyers, and sketchy numbers for the company in general, it will have to eventually go more mainstream. I know the stock pumpers don't like to see that.

    Oh, another fire

    Maybe they just attract errant owners?
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    edited October 2013
    I never questioned the Prius works well for many people, don't need to defend it to me. But it also has an image which isn't borne out of thin air. Spend some time in the Seattle area, you'll see it. It'll either be driven obliviously (ignorant of other cars, or aggressively) in the city, be merging onto a highway at 38mph, or be cruising down the left lane at 55. Extra points for bleeding heart bumper stickers.

    It's also ungainly looking inside and out, squishy handling, and the Prius C I have experienced firsthand is only really fit for city use. There's more to life than saving money on gas. If I wanted a hybrid, I would get one based on a normal car. 99% of my driving time isn't in the commuting slog, I need something with more feel and more design.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    I'd be more inclined to bow down and worship without the reverse socialism, too. Musk is indeed a brilliant man, and the car is pretty amazing, but it isn't self-sufficient. And when it aims at that part of the market, it needs to be.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I've driven around the country a lot, and I don't see any pattern of hybrid drivers being any better or worse than those driving BMWs, Chevys, Hondas. Maybe folks prejudiced against hybrids see this sort of thing. Most people look at a car as a way of getting from point A to B in a reliable, safe and cost effective manner. Looks are purely subjective, and most 4 door cars are pretty similar looking. It's true that there's more to life than saving money on gas, but then I for one would rather have several extra thousand dollars and sacrifice a little "handling." There sure is a lot more to life than the car you drive.

    PS...You don't "need" something with "more feel and more design." You WANT something more... You sound like my kid when you say you "need" it. ;-)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    edited October 2013
    It might be a local thing. My area is an epicenter for the eco-weenie movement who wears it on their sleeve. Yes, to most people, a car is an appliance - hence so many Camry and Corolla sales. Nothing wrong with that, but it might not be good to expect someone who extracts more pleasure from a car to smilingly accept an appliance, no matter how cheap it might be to run. It's nice having a little extra money - if there's a use for it. Life is too short to die with a nice bank account, but no experiences.

    BMW drivers are probably jerkier, on average ;)

    I need something more...I am skating on thin ice in terms of sanity already, it might not take much to push me over the edge ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    When I think of hybrids, I think of the Prius. It's hard to recognize the other hybrids even if that Tahoe next to you at the light has a big HYBRID logo plastered on the side.

    And with over a million Prii on the roads in the US, and with taxi drivers and Yoopers driving them, the eco-weenie sleeve wearing mantra is getting a bit thin (yeah, I see them all the time now here in the UP). They don't cost a fortune, they're reliable and they're good on gas. Perfect toasters that happen to be green, but the dollar green is pushing sales now.

    The Tesla can't qualify for eco-weenie status either; the Leaf or Volt make better green sense just on their lower cost and "everyman" status. The one green thing about a Tesla is that you are limited on how much you can drive it. :-)
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    Yes, as a marketing exercise and a cheap to run car, the Prius is gold. Toyota knows how to run with something.

    It's a modern day car for people who don't like cars or driving. Those existed in the past, too. Toasters aren't new. Nothing wrong with it, if one accepts it for what it is. I do, but it seems like some who have bought them or want them don't. Regarding the stereotypes, find the South Park "Pious" episode, or the video with the annoying woman whining to the dbag truck driver...stereotypes usually don't come out of thin air.

    The Tesla is eco-weenie coupled with Apple-style showy tech and lots of bizarre financial policy. It probably doesn't come with a pre-installed "Coexist" or "Hillary in 16" bumper sticker, like a Seattle area Prius ;)
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    Letterman said POTUS called Hillary yesterday to see if she could start early, but we don't want to go down that road. :D

    Haven't you heard that people who stereotype are dysfunctional cognitives?

    Seems like every story around here is about yet another issue with the long term Tesla in the fleet. The latest is the driver door opening automatically - and that's not the first time that problem has cropped up.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    edited October 2013
    Just buy the V, you know you want it. And in the Prius "family", it is the least offensive member (although if one counts the CT as a cousin, it might be better, looking more like a dorky Euro hatch than a Pious, and no doubt nicer inside).

    Blind absolute stereotypes are dangerous, but ignoring the links between smoke and fire is also dysfunctional and maybe deceptive.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Got the van fixed for "only" $475 - probably would have been $1,500 in Boise (cap, rotor, plugs, injector). That's not much more than the proverbial car payment so we're good for another few months hopefully, until I hit the lottery and get my Tesla.

    The shop owner was telling me about a retired GM engineer who has a lake place around here. He got a Volt, "just because". The consensus was that it was perfect for tooling around on 30 mile trips but that's about it.
  • bwiabwia Member Posts: 2,913
    edited October 2013
    The Tesla is eco-weenie coupled with Apple-style showy tech and lots of bizarre financial policy

    That's an unfair characterization of Tesla's financial reporting. Tesla provides financial information based on US GAAP as well as additional information not often found in GAAP-based financial reports. It is up to reader to choose which information makes for sense to him.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    I said financial policy, not reporting. Although many question the reporting And again and again, I could go on for hours.

    By policy, I mean the hard to defend subsidies and undeserved tax breaks, the goofy price-value justifications ($100/hr for fueling time, etc), and so on.

    Of course, I am not involved in speculating in what might be the most bubblicious stock on the entire market, so I don't need to find a silver lining in the weirdness.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    Is it really fixed? If so, good job - now just hope the other half doesn't start nagging about having a new car ;)

    If I won a lottery, a Tesla wouldn't be in my initial fleet anyway :)

    Just like a Prius C is OK so long as you never have to hit the highway.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    lol, well, it's fixed for today. It can't be all bad - the mechanic said he'd buy it if we decide to sell it.

    Let's see, Tesla stock was around $165 today, so instead of fixing the van, I could have purchased ~2.5 shares of stock. But even Elon says it's overvalued. (CNN)

    Would have been nice to have gotten some at the start of the year and watched it grow 400% though. :)
  • andres3andres3 Member Posts: 13,729
    What do you think the chances are Tesla might do an Apple like price cut and significantly reduce the price of the product thereby angering early adopter customers.

    Seems to me if they got the $80K car down to $50K they'd be onto something.
    '15 Audi Misano Red Pearl S4, '16 Audi TTS Daytona Gray Pearl, Wife's '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    Even better if the consumer gets the wacky incentive like on the 80K model.

    In time as charging stations are more widespread, appeal will grow too. Theoretically, the potential is great. Just waiting for an imitator.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 57,134
    Well, a nice enough one owner van with not a huge trade in value - he'd be getting a deal. Old cars usually hit a point where their market value is far less than their functional value.

    Cool link - there has to be a correction sometime.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    Those charging stations are proprietary, so no Leafs need apply. Our $$ (by way of the EV credits extorted from other makers) pay for the stations so rich folk can drive coast to coast.

    What a RACKET!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I don't think Teslas will scale down. The tech is too expensive right now. If the price scales down, so will the car's abilities and range.

    Unlike their attitude towards Apple, the American public has (so far) sent a pretty clear message to some automakers:

    "We don't particularly like diesel cars and we don't particularly like EVs".
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    "Influential people set trends while the mainstream aspires to follow.

    So, as Tesla increases the number of models on offer and price points, it could find itself in demand by more than just those in these wealthy enclaves. After all, most luxury car companies find the most volume in their entry-level vehicles."

    Drive by Numbers - Tesla Model S is the vehicle of choice in many of America's wealthiest zip codes (Here's the press release version).
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    you could say the same for Ferrari but there are no new $30,000 Ferraris.

    What they aspire to is the 300 mile range and blistering performance. What they are not aspiring to is yet another Nissan Leaf.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    Elon said last May that he hoped to bring a $40k Tesla out in 4 years. Did Enzo ever say anything like that?

    Total Ferrari sales (ever) is ~130,000 per Wiki. Tesla is up to 10,000 sales as the first half of this year (can't find a "total to date" number - anyone?). First cars were produced in '08.
  • texasestexases Member Posts: 10,704
    Tesla may want to start selling $40k cars, but there's lots of competition there in EVs from brands with large, established dealer networks. I'd rather spend that on a BMW than a Tesla...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    BMW produces NINETY TIMES the cars that Tesla does.
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Somehow it doesn't seem right to be comparing a Ferrari in almost any context with a Tesla..or any electric no matter how exotic or performance capable.

    Part of springing for a Ferrari or other super highly wound performance exotic, is for the accompanying aural package that valves and cylinders in silly numbers, and no-dollar-spared intake and exhaust systems provide, that all react proportionately to the press of the loud pedal.

    With a Tesla, while the push into the seat is going to feel good, the electric whine of the motor (which is probably intentionally kept quite subdued) will be more reminiscent of driving a forklift or golf cart..
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited October 2013
    Tesla is "on track to deliver more than 21,000 vehicles this year.

    Given that sales will grow over time, it seems likely Tesla is preparing to reach 100,000+ vehicles sold in the final year of the agreement — five times the 2013 total."

    So, maybe 5 years to approach Ferrari's lifetime total. (Forbes)

    Tesla has already sold more cars this year than the entire 21 year run of Checker Marathons. :) (yet another obscure Wiki link)
  • crkyolfrtcrkyolfrt Member Posts: 2,345
    Well, I don't think that it's a fair comparo on price either. Not only are they only 2 seaters, some Ferrari's run in excess of a qtr mil.

    I'd say that at this stage the primary thing they share is exclusivity. And with the numbers you're posting, they're on their way to throwing that out the door too in due time.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Unless they come up with a better product, they aren't going to sell 100,000 a year.

    More range, lower cost, that's the only way.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    When you bring a "real" car, like BMW, into the mix, things do get more interesting.

    Daimler Seeks More Tesla Cooperation in Pursuit of BMW (Bloomberg)

    Had no idea that they're going to use a Tesla drivetrain in the Mercedes B-Class.

    We'll really know Tesla has made it when the stock goes to $38 and they announce a dealer network.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    "Tesla delivered 5,500 Model S vehicles and is now producing 550 cars per week."

    That was Tesla's goal but Wall St. wanted more.

    Tesla Tanks As Vehicle Sales Come Short Of Analyst Expectations (businessinsider.com)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well Tesla is running what....177X earnings? It behaves more like a tech stock than like an automobile stock. Everybody who is investing wants to see this stock at about 140 in order to feel somewhat kinda sorta comfortable.

    Still no game changer. You want a real game changer?

    It was the Prius.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Yep, first real game changer since the minivan.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yep, the only real game-changer in the last 3 decades--spawned a massive response among competitors, to say nothing of a new cult.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    A reporter is looking for a recent buyer or shopper of a Tesla. If you'd like to share your story, please send your daytime contact info to pr@edmunds.com no later than 2 p.m. PT/5 p.m. ET on Wednesday, 11/6/13.
  • anythngbutgmanythngbutgm Member Posts: 4,277
    "Still no game changer. You want a real game changer?

    It was the Prius."

    Yep, love it or hate, there are a million examples on the roads and it single handedly brought Toyota becoming the leader in hybrids that they are today.

    Still, there is nothing sexy about anything in the Prius lineup.

    The Tesla tho, either the "sexy youngin", Model S or the Lotus Exige looking one are reminiscent of the posters of Ferrari's and Lamborghini's that I once had on my wall as a kid growing up. They are stylish and svelte and IMO don't really look like anything on the market. Sure, bits and pieces of the Model S could remind one of a Maserati Quattroporte or maybe an Aston Rapide but in the big picture, it really has a look all it's own. And the Roadster, sure it looked like a Lotus Exige but how many non car enthusiasts in the world even know what that is?

    That's the thing, I really believe it is the sex appeal and the blistering acceleration that are driving the Tesla name right now. It's a car that you almost expect every Eco-conscious Star in Hollywood to buy (Remember the EV-1 rage when GM called them all back to be crushed?) or the rich business guy who wants to offset the gas consumption of his half-million dollar 12mpg Ferrari...

    IMO, it is what the Prius was in the beginning, or heck even the Ford Escape hybrid brought to those looking for something different, exclusive and special. Tesla just happened to wrap it in a sexy body and as I mentioned before, gave it incredible performance.

    I think it is a real game changing alternative to the large Bimmers and Mercs, just like the Prius was a game changer to the typical compacts.
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