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Toyota Tundra Problems

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Comments

  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    What is up AK? First you say you want to race and now you do not respond. That is very...
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    I know the feeling...........from you.

    Forged piston question comes to mind

    Oil filter drain back valve and "dry starts" is another.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    So what is your point? I make mistakes. Yes I do. Do you have a problem with that? I still have a modded car that I did. I still race at the track roughly once a month.

    It is still correct that if you do not have a good oil filter with a good anti-drian back valve in it, you might have more start-up clatter. That is a factor in start-up clatter.

    It is also correct that forged pistons pistons Shrink more when cold than non-forged ones and that also has an impact on start-up clatter.

    Please prove me wrong or STFU.
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    Where is this raceway?? I said I am shipping the car in the summer. Like April or Mayish. I am not going to drive an M3 in Ice and Snow. I would be the fishtail king. I know we can do a few laps, but in racing would we even be in th same class?? Shoot me some weights, and HP ratings for your car. I have not dynoed my car yet but Active says it is in the 400 range. And you do have a turbo??? Just curious what kind you have. Pal's GST ran 440hp with a 20G and custom intercooler... Shoot me the info and we can set something up. Go to www.Activeautowerke.com to see what they can sdo.
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    Would I need to install a roll-cage??? Just curious.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    The car weighs around 2300 lbs and puts down 163 WHP. It does not have a turbo. We cannot dod door to door racing since this is a hotlapping event and not a racing event. There will be other events during march or april. I go to events approx once a month. Go here and look up their schedule, pick up an event and tell me you will be there and I will meet you http://www.open-track.com/ot_general/ot_schedule.html


    You do not need a roll cage, just a helmet.

  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    Mod maybe this proof is enough to convince you about cold weather and forged piston slap:


    Piston Slap

    Piston rattle or slap when an engine is cold indicates too much clearance between pistons and cylinders. This may be due to excessive assembly tolerances or worn cylinders. Some forged pistons have a higher rate of thermal expansion than cast pistons, and may require slightly greater cold clearances to compensate. This, in turn, may produce some unwanted piston noise when a cold engine is first started, but it has no effect on piston performance, durability or longevity.


    http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar80125.htm

  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    My only questions to you in the past(that you conveniently ignored) is that you said the start up clatter was caused by an empty filter leaving the top end dry. I explained to you that a filter should not go dry(at least overnight) if it's a quality filter with a good drain back valve. I'm glad you acknowledge that now.

    You then posted the forged piston link( gotta laugh at the shrinking piston comment though) I simply asked if the toy had forged pistons.

    I did not attack you like your fellow toy brother did. I just simply want to know if the toy clatter in 60% of tundras is due to lack of oil upon start up or larger clearances for the pistons that forged units require. Basically you've given 2 reasons why there is cold start up noise. One reason shouldn't happen if you use a quality filter and the other wouldn't hold water if the motor doesn't use forged pistons. Please read the first two sentences of your link....Thank you.

    Pretty sure I also explained to you there are forged pistons out there that will allow .002-.003 piston to wall clearance which is near cast piston clearances. TRW makes 'em and I used them in a 5.0 build up. Guess what? NO CLATTER!!!

    I admit I get a kick at some of the comments made(not just by you). The disc vs drum comment about surface area and drums are better was a classic. I just was hoping you could explain your reasoning about clatter. A clatter which I don't feel should be accepted whether it be a toy GM or Ford.

    On a side note;
    I've killed cones in my Cobra and drag race it at the track quite a bit. After taking a ride in one of the Richard Petty stock cars around LVMS at "only" 160 I realized I'm no where near a race car driver. Anyone that thinks that NASCAR doesn't involve real driving should try that out sometime, it was a rush.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    All the talk about clatter is plain SPECULATION. no one knows why this happens. There are many theories out there.

    1. It can be caused by the oil filter. Anti-drainback valves ar not bullet proof. Oil will seep through the filter back into the oil pan over night. Why is that so hard to believe. Oil settles in the oil pan overnight. When you start the car the next day it is noisey until the oil circulates properly in all the moving parts.

    2. It can be caused by the use of forged pistons. According to this person "Forged pistons also run 18% to 20% cooler than cast pistons because the metal conducts heat away from the combustion chamber more quickly. This reduces the risk of detonation – but the trade-off is greater thermal expansion in the piston. Consequently, forged pistons require greater installed clearances which increases cold start noise and blowby."

    3. I doubt that hypereutectic pistons cause clatter because they resist thermal expansion better than "regular" pistons. here is a quote "Hypereutectic pistons are used in some original equipment engines. They are favored because of reduced scuffing, improved power, fuel economy and emissions. The reduced thermal expansion rate allows the piston to be run with reduced clearance. A tight piston is less likely to rock, make noise, and burn oil. A rocking piston wears rings and increases blow-bye."

    What type of pistons does chevy use in its truck engines?
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    1. It can be caused by the oil filter. Anti-drainback valves ar not bullet proof. Oil will seep through the filter back into the oil pan over night. Why is that so hard to believe. Oil settles in the oil pan overnight. When you start the car the next day it is noisey until the oil circulates properly in all the moving parts.
    --------------------------------------------------

    Here's where I question you. The drain back valve may let the oil back into the filter but it will not all go into the pan, The filter will remain full.(unless it's mounted up side down) This may cause clatter (with Fram filters being notorious for cardboard valves). But a quality filter SHOULDN'T do it and if it does you should change it. My guess is if your motor still clatters after 1 or 2 Mobil 1 filters or K&N's or WIX it most likely is not the culprit.
    --------------------------------------------------

    2. It can be caused by the use of forged pistons. According to this person "Forged pistons also run 18% to 20% cooler than cast pistons because the metal conducts heat away from the combustion chamber more quickly. This reduces the risk of detonation – but the trade-off is greater thermal expansion in the piston. Consequently, forged pistons require greater installed clearances which increases cold start noise and blowby."
    --------------------------------------------------
    I know that forged pistons expand at a greater rate and have larger initial clearances. Ford uses forged in their trucks and had a problem for a while before tightening up the tolerances.
    JUST BECAUSE A MOTOR RUNS FORGED INTERNALS THIS DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MEAN IT WILL HAVE COLD PISTON SLAP. Witness the '87-92 mustang GT's that had forged pistons. Does toy use forged pistons???
    I've said it before and will say it again; if a motor clatters because of loose forged pistons it means the tolerances aren't as tight as they could be and there is just that much less "cushion" before rebuild
    --------------------------------------------------

    3. I doubt that hypereutectic pistons cause clatter because they resist thermal expansion better than "regular" pistons. here is a quote "Hypereutectic pistons are used in some original equipment engines. They are favored because of reduced scuffing, improved power, fuel economy and emissions. The reduced thermal expansion rate allows the piston to be run with reduced clearance. A tight piston is less likely to rock, make noise, and burn oil. A rocking piston wears rings and increases blow-bye."
    --------------------------------------------------
    Your point??? If a motor has piston knock on hyper pistons I would say that the tolerances are too loose.....see my theory above about longevity.
    --------------------------------------------------

    What type of pistons does chevy use in its truck engines?
    --------------------------------------------------

    Don't know.

    Epilogue;

    One of the few things I've EVER agreed with bama on is that a new engine should not clatter on start up. If it's a filter drain back problem; change filters. If it's loose piston tolerances, I feel the manufacturer should remedy it (early Ford 4.6/5.4)

    In your poll 40% did not clatter. Why???
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    What you lose in Hp you will gain in weight. But I do have a Turbo. I don't think it will make a difference. You do have a weight advantage. I'll take a look and get back to ya. Will my motorcycle helmet(An ARAI) full-face be suffecient?? I might install better belts though.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    "In your poll 40% did not clatter. Why??? "

    Because 40% of the respondents to his poll actually owned Tundras?
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    The clatter is common due to the use of forged pistons. And I have read two articles by engine builders that say so. I suggest you read these.


    http://www.automotiverebuilder.com/ar/ar129832.htm

    http://www.babcox.com/editorial/ar/ar80125.htm


    Here is a direct quote from the second article:

    Piston rattle or slap when an engine is cold indicates too much clearance between pistons and cylinders. This may be due to excessive assembly tolerances or worn cylinders. Some forged pistons have a higher rate of thermal expansion than cast pistons, and may require slightly greater cold clearances to compensate. This, in turn, may produce some unwanted piston noise when a cold engine is first started, but it has no effect on piston performance, durability or longevity.

    Now about the poll. I think those who report no clatter either live in warmer climates or start their trucks in warm garages. In my truck, I only started hearing the three distinct taps on start-up when the weather became colder in SoCal. I voted in the poll that my truck had no star-up clatter, but now it does due to colder weather. I suspect the same is happening with other truck owners. Moreover, i mostly hear mine when I start the truck with the door open. With the door shut I hear nothing.

  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    Just curious - How many of the people who responded to your poll actually own Tundras?
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    "The clatter is common due to the use of forged pistons."

    It is too bad that the Tundra uses cast pistons. Nice theory anyway. I suggest you resume posting when you know what you are talking about. Have a nice day.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    please show me a link to prove that the Tundra has cast pistons. I am not taking your word for it. This is the Internet and a lot of stuff is said w/o proof.

    As for the poll, I explained to you in details the shortcoming of internet polling. There is no need to repeat that again.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    "This is the Internet and a lot of stuff is said w/o proof."

    Oh - Do you mean your claim that the Tundra has forged pistons? LMAO!
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    Fine, prove me wrong? Show me that the Tundra does NOT have forged pistons.
    You believe in evidence, right? I could be wrong, but so could you.
    Why is your claim w/o proof more legitimate than mine?
    Please find evidence that the Tundra has Cast alloy pistons.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    Why so stubborn??? I've read your links and AGREE for the most part(not on the longevity part, however). Have you read it???? Please note the first two sentences. Thank you, drive through.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    Ndahl:

    "Fine, prove me wrong? Show me that the Tundra does NOT have forged pistons."

    You are making some sweeping claims about Tundras and engine knock. You are attributing it to non-existent forged pistons. When you can back up what you post with fact, do so. It will greatly help your credibility.

    You are even posting in GM topics claiming to be an expert there. Heck, you don't even know what type pistons Tundras have - a truck you claim to own. You need to get your act together.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Is the engine knock afflicting 60% of tundras, (and possibily the other 40% as well) happening because forged pistons expand more than cast pistons, and therefore require more clearance in the bore for expansion? Or is Bama correct, that the pistons are cast? And that excessive groove clearance for the rings lets the cast iron piston rattle, ping, and bang against the cylinder bore since the ring can't support it?
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    Hey guys Ndahi12 is correct with his claims... But I do not know the answer to his claim that the 2000 Tundras have the forged pistons. The only way to know is to get an answer from a Toyota tech. I do know that the Lexus linehas been using them in the 8 cylinder 400's for a while. And since his engine shares that patform I would support his claim. Plus it is Toyota...
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    Two members of the Hyundai Knockerado (Quad, AK) pack check in to tell us all about Tundra engine knock. They need to defend their wounded runt - Ndahl.

    Quad - you are confused as usual - the Knockerados have problems with loose rings. Just go to the GM engine knock forum and read all about it. No need to thank me.

    Ak - The Lexus 470 and Toyota Landcruiser use the exact same part number cast hypereutectic pistons as the Tundra.

    And AK - towing in 4WD giving you more towing capacity? You have got to be joking! Is this the best the Chev pack could come up with?
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    A very short while ago(according to our professor with a High School degree) it was because DOHC engines lose all their oil in the top end and start dry which is totally normal....until now with the new links supporting the forged piston theory. Next week it'll be something else...perhaps loose muffler bearings.
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    Where are you getting your info?? You're telling me that a 4x4 engaged cannot haul more then a 4x2?? Heres some numbers off the '01 Rado 1500 4x4 vs Rado 4x2 for reference. They can be found at any local Chevy dealer with a 2001 Rado Catalog.

    Ball Hitch Towing

    Rado 4x2 with 3.42 gears:6600 lbs
    Rado 4x2 with 3.73 gears:7600 LBS

    Rado 4x4 with 3.73 gears:7300 Lbs
    Rado 4x4 with 4.10 gears:8300 LBS

    All are with auto(like mine) and a 6 1/2 foot bed

    Heres some 5th wheel info for ya.

    Rado 2wd with 3.42:6600 lbs
    Rado 2wd with 3.73:7600 LBS

    Rado 4x4 with 3.73:7300 LBS
    Rado 4x4 with 4.10:8300 LBS.

    Still think I am lying?? Go to any GM site to see for yourself. They should have the numbers for the 2001 line still. If not get a brochure from any Chevy Dealer. Also take a look at your Tundra's broschure sometime. Take the specs of a 4x2 and compare to a 4x4. And the little Tundra 4x2 owner can't stand that he can get outpulled by any 4x4 out their(Tundras included) and I'll tell you what Bama, Since all you guys do in Bama anyway is eat, after dinner take apart your engine and tell us what you think it has?? And since you live in Alabama and own what you own I would watch out for the lynch mob son. That's not a good Truck decision in the south....
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    My engine dosen't knock. Maybe since I take care of it unlike others. I think the ring problem is due to the fact that GM's crappy coolant deteriotes the seals of the rings while cooling the engine. And Bama heres a hard one for ya. We guys get teased by all the drivers for this one. You spin an engine to 5000 RPM's. Now do the pistons stop before they come back up??? Just curious o see what your answer is... And why are you such a GM expert... It's probably since you get teased for your truck when you go t the local Winn-Dixie and all....
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    All this coming from a guy who thinks a 4x2 can outpull a 4x4(Which it cannot). But he continues to LHAO. Since he's the expert I would like to see how he knows all the facts.
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    >A very short while ago(according to our professor with a High School degree) it was because DOHC engines lose all their oil in the top end and start dry which is totally normal....until now with the new links supporting the forged piston theory.<

    Dry starts are not a problem for the knockwrust Tundra. According to Bama, toymota made them hard to start just for this purpose, circulating the oil before that nasty spark smokes the oil film off the walls, and the associated galling, scuffing etc. LMAO!!!
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    I am not making sweeping claims. As I said before all this is SPECULATION. We do not know for sure why the cold start-up knock happens. All we know is that IT DOES HAPPEN.

    Form that point we need to find out why it happens so we propose theories to try and explain. At least I am trying to explain why it happens. What have you contributed as to the cause of cold start-up? All you do is reject all explanations and YOU DO NOT provide alternatives.

    Please tell us why does the Tundra have knock on cold start-up?
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    "You are attributing it to non-existent forged pistons."

    Please prove to me that the Tundra uses cast pistons. Simply repeating it over and over again does not make it true.

    You have not provided me with one iota of evidence that the Tundra uses cast pistons. Please provide me with evidence that the Tundra uses hypereutectic cast pistons.

    I am waiting
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    When comparing towing and hauling stats, you need to keep the rearend the same as it impacts your ability to tow and haul. So from the figures you provided on post #325,

    Rado 2wd with 3.73:7600 LBS

    Rado 4x4 with 3.73:7300 LBS

    So the answer is simple...the 2wd is rated by GM to haul and tow more....AND be careful cause Mod is ready to jump all over you on this in another topic.

    GOOD LUCK ON THIS ONE NOW!!
  • 96flea96flea Member Posts: 38
    I currently own a 96' Ranger. Good luck so far but now i want a 4x4. I would go with a 4x4 Ranger but anything above the 97' are crap. Then i figured if i go 4x4 why not upsize. So what did you people pay for your 4x4 v8 Tundras? Reliability, i would hope no Tundra below 150,000 miles has been to the shop. If so i'll keep the Ranger. MPG's i'm not worried about cause my Ranger's v6 gets the same as your v8's, hey its a Ford. Any info appreciated.
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    If you are going fullsize - there is no more reliable truck than the Tundra. (Hey- its a Toyota!)

    I would buy the Tundra in your situation. Currently - you can get pretty much ANY truck for invoice. Toyota is currently running 0% financing for 3 years. My brother bought one just a week ago. He did the 0% financing.

    I have owned a Toyota Tundra for two years and it has been flawless. My brother drove mine and fell in love with it. He previously owned a Toyota pickup that he drove 150,000 miles before a drunk rear ended it and totalled it. I drove it shortly before it was totalled and it ran like new. I talked to many people who owned Toyota pickups before buying mine and they universally raved about how reliable they were.

    If you buy one - the only upgrade I would suggest is upgrading to Bilstein shocks (assuming you do not buy the TRD package which comes with them.) I did not get the TRD package because I do not like decals of any type on any vehicle I own. I also did not like the way the black fender flares looked.

    I drove the standard shocks for two years before changing to Bilsteins and it was a definite improvement.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    I'm deeply offended!!! When have I ever jumped on anyone??

    This guy with the selective towing figures(ya think he really thought no one would notice the different ratios?) now says the GM coolant ruins rings!!!??? Someone taught him about TDC and BDC and dwell time and he can't wait to share his new found knowledge.

    I'm just glad he's on your side. LMAO!!!
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    NDahl

    "I am not making sweeping claims. As I said before all this is SPECULATION. "

    Hey - my apologies! I did not know that you didn't know what the heck you were talking about.

    What I am wondering is - What good is it to speculate?

    In the future, be more obvious about your speculating please. Do like Quad does, then it will be obvious. For example: "I think that those piston thingies MAY be forged."

    See how it works?
  • bamatundrabamatundra Member Posts: 1,583
    Quad:

    "According to Bama, toymota made them hard to start just for this purpose, circulating the oil before that nasty spark smokes the oil film off the walls, and the associated galling, scuffing etc. LMAO!!!"

    I never made such a statement. Were you lying this time or just confused (as usual)?
  • quadrunner500quadrunner500 Member Posts: 2,721
    Is your brother going to start posting about his "flawless" (LMAO) truck here too? Or are you concealing your fictional past to spare the family name needless embarrassment?
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    WHY DO YOU AVOID ANSWERING MY QUESYIONS?

    I asked you two things:

    1. Show me evidence that the Tundra has cast pistons.

    2. Why do Tundras have start up clatter?
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Especially it being a new year and all....maybe he's busy chasing bin Laden....

    To get everyone back on topic.....what was the final outcome, or has one been established regarding the warping rotors on the Tundras?
  • f1julesf1jules Member Posts: 288
    Oby-I can only speak from personal experience with my truck so here goes. I had a brake vibration at approx 10k miles. It was very slight and only noticeable when slowing from freeway speeds, slight shaking of the steering wheel. When I took it in for it's 10k mile oil change I mentioned it to the dealership and they suggested I leave it with them for the day. I got a call around 11:00AM that it was ready to pick up, they replaced the front and rear pads, turned the rotors and replaced a star adjuster on the rear brakes. I have almost 30k miles on it now with no more brake problems.

    So, 30k miles and it has been in the shop once for a couple hours. It has cost me nothing more to operate than gasoline, 5 oil changes and an air filter during the time I've owned it.

    I really would like to see Toyota build a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton truck though. I'm sure it would be a winner.
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    Still no answer. So much for credibility!!!!
  • plutoniousplutonious Member Posts: 799
    I guess if I really want to read about trucks that have REAL problems, I will have to go to the Chevy threads :-)
  • obyoneobyone Member Posts: 7,841
    Thanks for the response. Reason I asked is I have a friend who's interested in a used one and wasn't sure on the brake issue.

    BTW, post #342 is a perfect post. Perfect in the way it says nothing that relates to the topic. I guess you could call it a troll looking for responses. Best to ignore that type of person as they are really persistant....like a fly on s***.
  • powermanpowerman Member Posts: 20
    Well, I had a "mystery" noise with my 2002 Toyota Tundra with 4700 miles on it. There was a thumping or bumping noise coming from somewhere in the rear of the truck while driving down the road. From the cab, it was almost impossible to pinpoint where the noise was coming from. The noise went away when I took the empty coke can out of the bed of the truck!

    Seriously, my truck has been flawless so far and I hope it remains that way. The can noise was so noticeable because the truck is so quiet.
  • plutoniousplutonious Member Posts: 799
    but being that your Chevy spends 1/3d a year at the dealer for repairs and qualified for the Lemon Law (by your own admission), don't you belong in the Silverado/Sierra problem thread?
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    Read before you react.

    You just quoted me the difference between the Rado 4x2 with 3.42 gears which has a 6600 lbs tow rating

    The 4x2 with 3.73 gears has a 7600 lb tow capacity

    the 4x4 with 3.73 gears has a 7300 lb tow capcity
    nd the 4x4 with the 4.10 geas has a 8300 lb tow capacity.

    Why don't you go get a catelog from any manufactuer sometime whether it be Toyota, GM, Ford, Kia whatever and see the 4x2 vs 4x2 weight loads for yourself. I am going off the 2001 Rado brochure. I am sure you can find one of those can't you. If not I would be appy to mail you a copy...
  • ndahi12ndahi12 Member Posts: 235
    Where are you man? It is ironic how you disappeared when you had to address TWO questions. Let me repeat them for you:

    1. What type of pistons does the Tundra use? Please cite some evidence?

    2. What, in your opinion, is the cause of the cold start-up clatter on the Tundra?

    Since you are such an expert, please share with us.
  • ak4x4ak4x4 Member Posts: 126
    It's funny. I he indeed ownes a Rado then why he dosen't know the ball-hitch limits and the 5th wheel limits?? I looked at the catelog before I bought mine. That's something an informed buyer would do..
  • f1julesf1jules Member Posts: 288
    Trust me on this one, Oby does own a Rado.

    Besides, Toyota has only a couple different configurations and I couldn't name them off the top of my head. I looked at the Tundra catalog before I bought mine but that was 1.5 years ago.

    BTW-Two identical trucks, one with 4WD and one with 2WD, the 2WD will have the higher towing/hauling capacity. The 4WD adds weight to the truck thereby decreasing the towing/hauling capacity. This is true on ALL trucks.
  • modvptnlmodvptnl Member Posts: 1,352
    "The 4x2 with 3.73 gears has a 7600 lb tow capacity

    the 4x4 with 3.73 gears has a 7300 lb tow capcity"

    end quote!!!

    Doohhhhhhh!!! Which tows more???

    What's a catelog????
This discussion has been closed.