Toyota Tundra Problems

f1jules · January 2002

All I'm saying is that to use a truck, ANY TRUCK, to tow near the limits of the vehicle on ice is very very stupid. You can tow on plowed paved roads and roads that have been salted but ICE? No way, you would be in the ditch faster than you can say anonymous knucklehead.

I've towed a car behind another car in snow (fresh falling snow from a storm) and that was pretty hairy. I'll tell you that having the ability to turn all four wheels does not help one bit when you start to slide the vehicle.

I guess if you don't mind sliding off the road into the ditch and wrecking your truck and whatever you are towing then sure, it's a great idea to tow when the roads are icy. I stand corrected.

f1jules · January 2002

2.5L "Tech 4" (formerly known as the "Iron Duck"). Also known as the Duck of Death.

"No, it's Duke of Death"

"Duck I says"

ndahi12 · January 2002

You never read do you. I was asking for clarification and then I got it. I know that hypereutectic pistons are CAST. I did not know it before. But it was explained to me by KLS. But you chose not to read my post after that which I acknowledged the clarification.

Here is the question for the MILLION time: Does the Tundra have FORGED or CAST pistons?

Either answer the question with evidence or do not reply to my post

ndahi12 · January 2002

YOU ARE WRONG. The pistons are FORGED and I have proof. I just got off the phone with Toyota at 1-800-331-4331 and I spoke to Jason. I have a references number with a file to document it. The # is 200201101149. Call that number and ask for the file and you will see.

Jason told me that the Pistons are FORGED Alloy. In your face. I got you now, pal.

He will forward the proof to the Toyota dealership next to me. i am going to scan it and post it on the site as soon as I get.

Once again BAMA, YOU are WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG

modvptnl · January 2002

Are you having a fit???

You Ok???

ndahi12 · January 2002

No I am not. I just like to rub it in when I am right and Bama is wrong :-)

PF_Flyer · January 2002

Time to ge out of this "trying to PROVE" something mode.

Why does it HAVE to get personal???

Time to grow up guys...

PF Flyer

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ak4x4 · January 2002

Let me just say a few words.

First:WHO CARES??

Second:WHY IS IT SUCH A BIG DEAL???/

modvptnl · January 2002

Nope, I didn't think you would run a 4WD at highway speeds while engaged.(didn't I say that in my post?) I was sorta hoping you'd have a correct answer for once!! So the only time in AK that you would have an advantage towing with 4WD would be when exactly?? Towing around the city? Down your driveway? SLOWLY down the highway. Like F1 says, if you're towing while it's icy......see your first statement in your last post.

I'm DYING to know how coolant affects rings. Please enlighten me.

How will a polished piston or forged pistons add power??? Is this a new top secret invention???

They got the power by polishing the INTAKE, probably different cam profiles, higher compression ??? and maybe a different exhaust. 25HP by polishing pistons!!! ROTFLMAO. So after a few thousand miles when the pistons lose their luster, you lose the 25 HP???

I'm sure I don't know more than everyone on this forum. Pretty sure EVERYONE knows more than you, though!!!

The AK scorecard;

4WD is rated to tow more than 2WD..........WRONG

GM's may have knock because of crappy GM coolant ruining the rings.........................WRONG

Polished pistons add 25 horsepower.........WRONG

Forged pistons add power..................WRONG

modvptnl · January 2002

#326 of 410 And Bama.. by ak4x4 Jan 06, 2002 (04:44 pm)
My engine dosen't knock. Maybe since I take care of it unlike others. I think the ring problem is due to the fact that GM's crappy coolant deteriotes the seals of the rings while cooling the engine. And Bama heres a hard one for ya. We guys get teased by all the drivers for this one. You spin an engine to 5000 RPM's. Now do the pistons stop before they come back up??? Just curious o see what your answer is... And why are you such a GM expert... It's probably since you get teased for your truck when you go t the local Winn-Dixie and all....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WTF are "seals of the rings????" How in the world does the coolant come in contact with rings??? Inquiring minds want to know.

kg11 · January 2002

my ski boat up the launch ramp with my Taco.Low range 4wd ,gross combined vevicle weight 110% of max rated!Needed lower ratio to get rolling,but don't do this at home kids.The vehicle IS NOT RATED for that kind of abuse.If you break it,you bought it.If you need to tow more weight,buy a bigger truck.
Seriously AK everything you're saying here is gibberish.It was GEARING that made the difference.
kip

modvptnl · January 2002

You're WRONG!!!!

When you engage 4WD, ESPECIALLY lo range, it increases your tow rating 2X. You're little Tacoma could tow 10,000 pounds down the highway, on ice by just engaging 4lo.

But do not run GM coolant, it will deteriote(sp?) the seals of the rings.

kg11 · January 2002

You and AK have enlightened us all.I'll just leave it in low range all the time and sell the 2500HD.You've saved me thousands.Watch the mail for a check!HA
kip

modvptnl · January 2002

Did you know that if you polish your pistons you'll get 25 more horsepower....and then you could tow even more because you're getting more power to the ground?

That'll be 2 payments now!!

quadrunner500 · January 2002

When you go into 4 low, and your transfer case is, for sake of argument 2 to 1 ratio, while the tow rating doesn't change, the max torque delivered to the wheels is doubled, due to mechanical advantage.

Same thing when you downshift from 2nd to 1st. The tow rating has not changed, but the torque delivered to the wheels was multiplied by the percentage change in the ratio.

kg11 · January 2002

That's what I was saying in #412.Since then,I'm ashamed to say.Mod and I have been having fun at AK's expense.I hope he understands that gearing is the only advantage 4wd has,weather you lock the hubs or not.
kip

thetrojanman03 · January 2002

How would polished pistons give an engine more power?????? If you're so sure it does, then explain, don't BS and try to weezel your way out of it, just explain how it works. If your answer satasfies me (99.99999999999 % chance it won't) than I'll believe you despite everything else that I've heard and read (including that quote I pasted in a few posts back from edmunds.com) and never open my mouth about it again. I just have to know this one thing because it absolutely intrigues me that shiny pistons increase power. Does this mean that if I clean the insides of the pistons on my truck and polish them to a mirror shine, I'll get 25 extra ponies?

ndahi12 · January 2002

is not TUNDRA problem related. I beg you, leave this thread to Tundra related problems.

f1jules · January 2002

"seals of the rings" Isn't that the sequel to "Lord of the Rings?"

LMAO!!!!

f1jules · January 2002

"And F1:I never said highway speeds. For reasons I explained above. Granted say even if you had nothing in tow in rain or ice conditions A 4x4 would 100% be better. Anyone who says I am wrong about that needs to have his D.L. taken away."

Um, towing in rain and towing in ice are COMPLETELY different situations. I don't believe I ever mentioned highway speeds in my posts either. Furthermore, once you start to skid, 4x4 will not be of any advantage because you have lost traction at that point so how would having drive at all 4 wheels benefit you if you are in a skid? I'm talking about a loss of control here. It happens on 4x4s just as easily as it does for a 2WD car because it is a matter of mass, momentum and loss of adhesion with the road. You can't power your way out of a skid on ice, unless you're really really good like maybe Micheal Schumacher or Juan Pablo Montoya-although when they lose the car even they cannot catch it all the time.

bamatundra · January 2002

Tundra dude says that Toyota told them they were cast. You say that Toyota told you they are forged. I showed pistons with apparent casting marks. I would say the jury is still out on this.

However a picture is worth a thousand words:

ndahi12 · January 2002

I cannot believe that you are still arguing with me about this. Just call the damn number and give the rep the damn file number and you will find out that what I said is correct.

The picture says NOTHING. You cannot tell from a picture. No one could tell in the thread posted at TS with the pictures in it. I have all these pictures.

I will get the info from Customer Service. I will scan it and post it to the site. If that does not convince you, then nothing will.

harry754 · January 2002

Hi, I have a 2000 Tundra with a annoying radio noise problem.At an idle you can hear a pop,pop,pop in the radio.When you accelerate it pops faster until it is almost a buzz.The problem becomes much worse when you turn on the headlights.It does'nt sound like an alternator noise.Is there a radio noise filter that can go bad on this truck.I think that they used something like that on vehicles a few years ago.Thanks for any help anybody can give me.P.S.When you let off the gas after accelerating or when you brake the noise goes away until you accelerate again.

duckshooter · January 2002

Harry - this could be caused by any number of things. The vehicle is under warranty - take it back to them and tell them to fix it. I once played mystery music on my very first car (71 AMC Hornet, baby!) and it can be vexing even on a very simple vehicle like my old Hornet. The noise can be coming in from your power supply if the filter has gone bad or it could be coming from any number of electrical components under the hood. The bottom line is that it's not your job to chase ghosts like this on a new truck that's still under warranty.

By the way - did you install an after-market stereo? [this would explain your reticence in taking it back...]

dch0300 · January 2002

I believe that years ago they put things called "condensers" (a capacitor) on certain electrical components (distributor, alternator, etc) of vehicles to reduce voltage noise caused by those components arcing or sparking. If this voltage noise is not filtered out by the condensers then you end up with the situation you are in....noise on the radio. And this noise goes up in frequency as you accelerate because those components do their arcing and sparking more often as you accelerate.
Bottom line, if it is still under warranty follow Jeff's (duckshooter) advise.

dustyk · January 2002

My first suspicion would be that the electrical noise is being generated by the secondary ignition circuit, especially since inductive devices at high voltage are inherently susceptible to producing these effects (ie; spark arcing).

You might look for a loose spark plug wire or some other poor connection in the spark distribution system. Inspect at night in darkness might be helpful. If nothing found, the next suspect would be a loose or open ground circuit, especially engine to body, or some other ground path open. A bad antenna lead-in cable will produce the same symptom. If your antenna is built into the glass, poor grounding through the hood is also very likely (hood acts like a shield around all of the electrical wiring under the hood, keeping EME emissions confined).

Good luck,

Dusty - KF2CF
PS - I trouble-shot a number of these problems on Corvettes.

ak4x4 · January 2002

Granted you guys might think it will never happen
But it does!. Lets see you pull your boats out of the water on a slick rain soaked jetty ramp. Or is it that your 4x2's will not be above to do this and you need to admit you are wrong. And, with the Integra thing, take a look at the reviews, and Acura's specs sometime. They polish the pistons to a mirror shine. Not to mention other things they do to INCREASE HP. ANd now you idiots are running your trucks in 4lo?? As far as Snow and Ice and Rain being different yes they are but it is an everyday occurance. Gearing does play a role in towing. I have a 4.10 gear ratio. I guess that means that you guys just have to live with that fact! It's not my fault that Toyota DOES NOT offer an option for this. And yes at highway speeds in a slide 4x4 will do nothing for you. But in normal "city" driving it will give you more traction. And since I have seen what crappy DEXCOOL does and it has no meaning in your Tundras why do you care?? I mean you have the best truck on earth right?? It's funny you can't even put a plow on the front! Nice truck considering all the problems you guys post. If I was in the market for one, just all your problems alone would have made me not even look at it. And f1,the only way I foresee getting out of a slide is in an FWD car or an AWD truck or car. But it does dependon the driver and on the speed that it occurs.

thetrojanman03 · January 2002

In a RWD, power is going through the back wheels making them want to push forward, making you much more likely to fishtail with the slightest change in direction. But if you have FWD or 4x4, power is going to the front wheels as well making them pull forward keeping the car straight. And again, I offer this quote since you didn't seem to read it the first time --"When you run the gutsy Type R to 8,000 rpm, just short of its 8,500-rpm redline, it delivers a street-racer worthy 195 horsepower, mostly due to its hand-polished intake and exhaust ports and a high-flow exhaust system."-- Just admit you made a mistake, and let it be.

xyz71 · January 2002

I have pulled a 4x4 out of a skid while driving on snow & ice 100's (maybe 1,000's) of times. If you are going 60+ MPH you are scewed no matter what. But if you are going 40 or less it is easy. Turn the wheel the direction you want to go and floor the gas - works 99% of the time. The mistake most people make when they get in trouble on ice is they slam on the brakes. If this is your approach - then 4x4 is of no benefit. I lived/drove in the north for over 20 years - as a young punk we use to drive around trying to make our 4x4's skid - it was part of the fun of winter. It is just like anything else. The more you do it the easier it gets. Practice makes perfect!

BTW - I retired from this moron behavior about 10 years ago.

f1jules · January 2002

I learned to simply take your foot off the gas and steer into the skid. I never drove a 4x4 in the snow ever. Always had front wheel or rear wheel drive cars. I've also towed in the rain and occassionally in snow with 2WD trucks and even with cars. There are still plenty of situations you can get into in snow even at low speeds that a 4x4 will not help one single bit with though. I still maintain that if you want to wreck your truck and whatever you happen to be towing then go out and drive it on icy roads. Very foolish.

losangelesemt · January 2002

Actually, the Tundra's problems are small in number and relatively minor compared to the other makes. The Tundra may not offer all the luxuries or as much space as GM/Ford/Dodge, but thats what makes the truck different and attractive to many people. If you take a look at other forums, there are many new trucks out there that have serious problems such as engine, trans, suspension. The Tundra not coming with standard ABS or snow plow fitting, just aren't serious enough problems to me in the big picture. Every truck has its weaknesses, so to each his own, right.

bamatundra · January 2002

We have two different posters who talked to Toyota. One said the pistons are cast, the other said the pistons are forged. Obviously - one is wrong. Which one?

Could it be that Toyota customer service did not know what they were talking about? I had a salesman at a stereo shop tell me with a straight face that RMS stood for "Real Music Sound".

The person who originally posted about Tundra pistons being cast had this to say in response to AKdahl:

"I doubt that anyone at Toyota Customer Service knows a cast piston from a forged one. At least Jason doesn't. Take a close look at the attached picture. It's of a cast V8 Tundra piston. You've been suckered!

Another poster said:

"ok now we're back to square one. cast or forged? while i originally believed nj, dude boy has visual evidence, and i wouldn't trust anything from toyota customer service, so that swayed my opinion. tell us more about casting."

I don't think AKdahl has proved anything yet. The jury is STILL out on this one.

A picture is worth a thousand words. Here is another picture:

ndahi12 · January 2002

It is really simple. You pick up the phone, dial the number and find out on your own. I find it amusing that you site TS when you previously said that the posters who voted in the poll are not legitimate. Are you contradicting yourself or what???

How can you tell from the picture? Are the weld marks on the piston your evidence of casting?

Moreover, I got a phone call from Long Beach Toyota that confirmed what Toyota Customer service said. Also, Jason put me on hold and went to ask about the pistons. He did not know. He asked more technical people around him.

You can call 562-494-4444 and speak to Long Beach Toyota's head technician, Doug Berger, who will tell you that the Tundra has forged pistons.

I find it odd that I have been asking this question in the other thread for a long time and it took you until now to step up to the plate and say that the psitons are cast.

But this is just a picture. What is it in the picture that tell you with certainty that the pistons are cast?

Any of you can call Toyota and find out on your own. Simply tell them that you own a Tundra and give them the vin number. It is very simple to confirm what I am saying. It is way better than speculating from marks on a piston.

Those who are doubters, please take the initiative and make the call. I did. I got my answer. The answer jives well with the cold start-up clatter. I am satisfied.

modvptnl · January 2002

welds on a piston??????

"How can you tell from the picture? Are the weld marks on the piston your evidence of casting?"

Does that give more horsepower, also???

ndahi12 · January 2002

for my mistake. How about marks on a piston? Does that make it more acceptable for you. See that flag next to my name. Does it look like an American flag to you? Maybe English is my second language? Have you ever thought about that? Some people...

modvptnl · January 2002

Must be that High School degree!!!

That would explain how you could have miss-heard Jason from Toyota say "forged" when he really said "cast." LOL!!!

ndahi12 · January 2002

acting like Bama please. The evidence is there, just call customer service.

thetrojanman03 · January 2002

Come on boys. This is supposed to be a messsage board about cars, not a pissing contest.

modvptnl · January 2002

I believe that is what customer service may have told you, I still have doubts.

When a Ford REGIONAL service manager came to look at my Cobra's paint, he informed me all the new Cobras would have the 5.4(as opposed to the 4.6 DOHC) I actually advised him that was just the "R" model. He insisted that it was all Cobras for '00. What's hilarious is there was no '00 Cobra(just the R, 300 total) and the '01 still has the 4.6.

I put as much faith in a service reps knowledge as I do in Ak's knowledge.

bamatundra · January 2002

You have poven nothing. Words are cheap. Where is a Toyota publication which states that the pistons are forged? You seem pretty quiet on this one.

How is Toyota Customer service all of the sudden the authority on Tundra pistons? I thought their job was to make customers happy - not be technical gurus.

We already know that Dude Boy got an answer from Toyota saying that the pistons are cast. None of the forged pistons I have had experience with have had casting marks.

Since I have supplied pictures, I would have to say that it is time for AKdahl to step up to the plate and provide some published proof. We all know that the specification exists - otherwise where would the customer service piston experts be getting their info?

Why don't you ask you good buddy Jason to fax you a copy of his source of information? While you are at it - get him to explain why Tundra pistons have casting marks. Could it be that they ARE cast?

ndahi12 · January 2002

You have two choices. You can argue with me or pick up the phone and call and find out on your own. The information is available and you can verify it by making your own call.

I am amazed that all of a sudden you trust the people who post at TS. Wheren't you the one that said that these are just e-mail addresses? Now you show enormous trust in Dude Boy!!! Kinda contradicts what you did and said before. Dude Boy also has the start-up clatter. He must be lying about that!!! LOL

On Monday I will go to the dealer and get written proof of what Toyota Customer service told me. That info is at the dealer. I just have to pick it up.

arkie6 · January 2002

nd... or nj... at TS, your obsession with this piston issue is bordering on the insane. You may want to have your doctor adjust your meds.

Getting a verbal answer from Toyota Customer Service proves nothing regarding the piston design. If you want to hear that the piston is forged and they tell you that it is forged, then those customer service folks have fulfilled their mission because they have satisfied their customer.

It is clear from Dude Boy's pictures that the pistons are manufactured by ART (it is also pretty clear that they are cast since "ART" is cast into the inside verticle portion of the piston skirt - this would be near about impossible with the forging process). ART of Japan is a major manufacturer of motorcycle and automobile OEM pistons. These guys would be the source of your long sought after answer - are the pistons cast or forged?

f1jules · January 2002

What exactly is the difference between a forged piston and a cast piston?

thetrojanman03 · January 2002

How about this, boys. If you have a Tundra with the v6, 3 of the pistons are forged and 3 are cast. If you have a Tundra with the v8, 4 are forged and 4 are cast. Fair enough?

mlundein1 · January 2002

13,000 miles both doors rattle over manhole covers etc. drivers door passenger door rubber squeaks, problem seemed to start about 5,000 miles ago, toyota service was able to use silicone to remedy problem,recently in for same problem, service dept. says cold weather (Boston area) which is total b.s. maybe needs new door seals? This is really getting annoying because other than this problem truck is great! Any ideas thoughts?

arkie6 · January 2002

Some of the early 2000 Tundra Access cab trucks had faulty rear door latches. This might be the cause of your problem with the rattling doors and rubber squeaks. These were upgraded to a better quality, stronger latch later in that year model. Check with your Toyota service department on this. If they aren't any help check with another service department. Surely some of them would be aware of this fix. There may even be a TSB on this, but I can't remember. My 2000 Tundra Access cab hasn't had that problem (it has 26,000 miles and was manufactured 1/07/00).

Alan

modvptnl · January 2002

A layman's explanation(mine) is that forged will be pressed into shape by a press with un Godly amounts of force. I'm assuming a piston will be a solid slug that is pressed into its shape and then final machined for wrist pin holes etc.. This is why I believe there is no casting marks on a forged piece. There may be stamped markings, however.

A cast piece will be what ever molten alloy poured in to a form, which can be a plug in the shape of the piece in sand, which is removed leaving a hollow indentation which is then filled with the molten metal. Or you can use a lost process like a styrofoam plug and pour the metal right into the mold dissolving the styrofoam.

One of the most fun things in Jr. High was we actually had a casting station in our metals class. We could re-cast anything we could think of by using the original in sand and pouring molten scrap aluminum over it. Or we could create things out of styrofoam or wood for the mold. Way better than wood shop!!!

jmsintx · January 2002

If the picture in post #432 is a Tundra piston, then Tundra pistons are cast. Forged pistons ( parts ) produce a blank, then all grooves, indentations, recesses are CNC machined.

bamatundra · January 2002

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0719/page1.html

"Castings are made by gravity die cast process using 5-piece inner dies, a two piece outer and usually a head chill which can form any cast valve pockets and bowls. There are also core pins to form the pinholes. The shapes are re-entrant (ie curve back on themselves) and the 5-piece inner part of the die collapses to allow withdrawal."

This picture of the cast Tundra piston has obvious signs of a multi piece die. You can also see that it is reentrant and that there is no way a one piece tool could be withdrawn from the piston. You can see that the center section could be collapsed or removed in order to remove the other pieces of the die.

"On the other hand, forgings are made from a solid billet of aluminium alloy. The alloy is preheated and then pressed into shape in a sequence of two or three stages, each getting closer to the final shape. These shapes are always such that the inner die piece can withdraw (and therefore the piston shape cannot be re-entrant)."

This is an example of a forged piston. You can see that the inside surfaces of the forged piston above are completely smooth. You can also see that a one piece tool could easily be removed. The recesses for the piston pin and retaining clip have obviously been machined into the piston.

ak4x4 · January 2002

That in Alaska where live nobody would tow r attempt anything without 4x4. The reason is Alaska is Alaska. And don't tel me you got far using 2wd. Maybe on a freshly sanded highway maybe. Ice is everywhere Especially in in pacifi Northwest so I don't want to hear it. You guya are saying that a Tundra can do anything. It't can't get that through your heads. You cannot pull anything in any truck on ice unless you have 4x4. You may think different, but com up here and maybe you will belvie me. Granted most of te problems are minor(Power windows, radios, etc,) you still would have made me go elsewhere. Every car ad truck has problems, but you think the Tundra has none or minor compared. That's wrong. Toyota is no excepton. Your truck may have minor or no prbolems, but what about others?? I have seen 2001 Camrys with bad water pumps etc, so Toyota IS NOT immune. But when I hear about brakes,the Gylcol problem, and others, makes me want to go elsewhere...

Toyota Tundra Problems

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