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Jeep Wrangler

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  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    John:

    TAKE YOUR JEEP BACK TO THE DEALER IMMEDIATELY!

    There's obviously something very wrong with it, if it doesn't leak. DC says Jeeps are designed to leak. :)

    Tom
    Have you hugged your Jeep today?
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    So, I'm assuming these are soft upper doors or are they full metal? I've never had a drop of water enter my cabin with hard or soft top.
  • drewmeisterdrewmeister Member Posts: 168
    goducks1 is exactly right here. In fact, a Wrangler (or original Cherokee or other Jeep with a NP231 Transfer case or similar) is not all-wheel-drive (AWD). Since that's true, it's much less stable than the typical front-wheel-drive car on wet pavement, and a binding transfer case would make the situation even worse when in 4-hi. It has a higher center-of-gravity than a car, and the weight is all in the front, just like a small pickup (which it technically is if you look at the title).
    The comments about tire quality definitely ring true as well, but her driving style is simply going to have to be different than if she had a Camry.
    I have seen comments mostly in magazines about people putting an NV242 case in Wranglers (from a Grand Cherokee) to get the AWD function. Apparently, it can be done. This capability does great things, as my father's 04 Grand has the AWD, and it's marvelous when you're travelling in bad weather, but it's still a high vehicle with a high roll-center. In the end, maybe the spin was a good thing. No one was hurt, and as we've all been teens, we know that teens don't believe anything bad can happen until it does. Maybe the feeling of spinning out of control will cause her to slow down a bit, or maybe want to go driving with you in a parking lot so you can demonstrate some counter-steer techniques. Personally, I feel she'll be a much more capable driver by learning to control a Jeep, which is one of the least "watered-down" off-pavement vehicles left in production.
  • embeedueceembeeduece Member Posts: 260
    So I tried very hard to induce death wobble over the weekend. Drove the normal roads where it happens. And, to quote Tom, Yee-Haw! There was no death wobble. That being said, I'm pretty sure everyone is right when they say the new stabilizer is just masking the problem. Can't pinpoint it, but I swear I could feel the Jeep wanting to wobble. Never got the chance to try to isolate the tires as the problem. Had the tires balanced, inspected, et al. I'll swap out the GSAs at some point, and pony up for a higher end stabilizer. But for now, the problem is happily "solved."

    Always wondered if the wobble wasn't anything wrong, per say, but simply how it goes with the new Wrangler. The unique front end suspension of a utility vehicle, but compromised to make it more car-like for daily drivers. Soft rubber bushings, etc. Maybe some combination of all those things just means there's going to be wobble every now and then. Dunno.

    Could be worse I guess. My Jeep doors could be leaking.

    -Mike
  • embeedueceembeeduece Member Posts: 260
    I know it's off topic, but just for fun, here's a link to the L.A. Times write-up on the Jeep Commander. They hated it.

    http://www.latimes.com/classified/automotive/highway1/la-hy-neil9nov09,0,2482696.story?col- l=la-home-highway1

    -Mike
  • ucbrendanucbrendan Member Posts: 3
    This is a broad message concerning water pooling on the bikini top and duster back cover of my Wrangler.

    I recently moved from Oregon to Southern California and I'm thrilled I can survive without a full soft-top on during the winter. I have a bikini top with a windjammer and duster for protection from the few rain storms that come through the area each winter (its not fully covered, but enough so I don't have to worry). I have a problem with rain pooling on the bikini top and duster cover and was wondering if any other owners experienced this problem and had any clever solutions. I was thinking of purchasing some straps and ties to keep tension tight to prevent pooling, but it is just a thought.

    Thanks for helping!
  • chiefusnchiefusn Member Posts: 20
    LA Times....they can't even get their news straight, much less write about vehicles. I quit reading it as soon as he talked about his wife's 1999 Cherokee that was powered by a V6....that's VEE SIX. Enough said.
  • guy21guy21 Member Posts: 129
    From the number of engine, trans and now body problems that are being reported on 2005 and 2006's DC may be finding that their tooling is wearing out and not worth re investing in with the new 2007 Wrangler coming out. This may also be reflected in the warranty being reduced from 7/70 to 3/36.
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    It doesn't do anything for me either though I've never driven one. I'm not sure why Chrysler built it since giant sport utes are a shrinking market. Loved the XJ Cherokee, it was the best looking sport-ute ever and I thought it a shame when they finally killed it. Hate the Liberty and don't care much for the Jeep Grand Cherokee either. I have a bad feeling that after the TJ is replaced next year, there won't be anything in the Jeep lineup of interest anymore. I always like the classic styling, mechanically simple, utilitarian feel of Jeep. The newer ones have lost that.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    ........I was thinking of purchasing some straps and ties to keep tension tight to prevent pooling......

    No, that'll just give you a small puddle! You need something to push it into a slightly convex shape. There is a commercially avaliable product somewhere, but it's easy to do yourself. You need a springy strip of wood about 2" wide and 1/4" thick. It needs to be slightly longer than the width of your top, so that when you fit it between the bars above the doors it bows upwards. Fix it by attaching velcro to it, then wrapping the velcro around the bars. You can leave it as is, but I'd smooth the edges then varnish or seal it for a nicer end product.
  • spiderwebilspiderwebil Member Posts: 3
    I have a 2004 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited/w/soft top.
    Would like to carry a canoe on top. Would appreciate all suggestions. Thanks, spiderwebil
  • isimangisimang Member Posts: 5
    Hello Everyone,

    I am interested in buying a Jeep Wrangler.
    2001-2005, a soft-top,a 6cyl at minimum. I do not want to spend more than $10,000.

    I will not use it to offroad.

    any help or advice will be greatly appreciated.

    thanks and take care
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    There are several racks out there for soft tops, but here's a new one that might be interesting if you have the top removed completely.

    image

    Reasonably priced too at $99.95 from Olympic and available here 4WD.com.

    Then there's the Congo Rack from Kargo Master which costs $319.99 for the Unlimited from the same place, and can be used with a soft or hard top.

    image

    There's a crossbar kit for that one if you need it.

    image

    There's more out there if you look. :shades:
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    The most common versions, the Sport and the Sahara, should suit you nicely. You'll be looking at the earlier model years to be in your price range, but ultimately condition and service history will determine the best value. You might also come across the 'X' model which is a rather basic version of the Sport, and there are one or two other special editions available. However, the Sport model and the slightly more luxurious Sahara, are probably the ones you're most likely to come across.
  • spiderwebilspiderwebil Member Posts: 3
    Thanks, mac24. I'll check the rack out. I really didn't want to take the soft top off, but maybe there might be some other options. I was thinking of bumper receivers,front and back, with over the over the top extensions. I guess I could go to trailer, but really don't like that idea too much.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Using front and rear receivers would work, but you'd need to attach to the body somewhere as well for stability, probably the windshield hinge points.
  • 99tj99tj Member Posts: 187
    sorry for the huge pic :blush: . I sized down my original considerably in Photbucket, but it still posted big :confuse:

    -Dan
  • redrocker15redrocker15 Member Posts: 102
    To my knowledge, not related to Tom. I am originally from central Indiana, so it's not completely impossible. More than likely, it's just a result of our attempts to look like Tom Skerritt.... ;)

    BTW, most people are amazed to learn there's such beautiful country in Oklahoma. I was! (Great national forest roads, with several side spurs leading who knows where!)
  • redrocker15redrocker15 Member Posts: 102
    Dan-
    I have problems manipulating Photobucket as well, but your picture seems a great size to me.
  • redrocker15redrocker15 Member Posts: 102
    Greetings, Tidester: ;)

    Thanks for the correction, and for the link!
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    good deal but I wouldn't want to lose the trunk storage. What I really wish is that JL Audio would come up with a TJ version of their stealthboxes. I'd definitely get one if I still had a YJ.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    I mounted a Kicker 8" sub in a Tuffy security console and it puts out more than enough bass for my tastes. I wasn't looking for audio competition quality, but enough to make it heard and feel full.

    This tuffy replaces the factory console, which was lacking in my SE entirely so it made it easy to install. Above the sub, I still have plenty of secure storage room too w/o losing any space in back.

    -Paul
  • 06tj4banger06tj4banger Member Posts: 39
    Hopefully they're aware that some adjustment can be made to the angle of the windshield by adjusting the length of the tube connecting the windshield to the 'roll' bar.

    Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try.

    -Rob
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    wow, those are new. I just went to quadratec and saw what you're talking about. Tempting.
  • erickplerickpl Member Posts: 2,735
    I've had mine for about a year and a half.

    -Paul
  • oldgoat2oldgoat2 Member Posts: 14
    All great feedback. I agree that it was a good lesson for my daughter, and luckily no damage. I knew the 2005 Jeep was not the safest or most practical vehicle, but I owned GTO's in my day, so my mind said "Honda Civic", but my heart said let her have the Jeep... She loves it, and since the tires are new, she has had the lecture about taking those corners more slowly. I probably won't suggest engaging the 4WD, because it is almost a sure bet she will forget to disengage later....
  • njbamadogznjbamadogz Member Posts: 26
    I've got the full metal doors on my Sport and the soft top.

    Went back to the dealership yesterday and told everyone who would listen how ridiculous this whole situation is. Invited all of the people in charge dressed in nice clothes to sit in the Jeep while I sprayed a hose on it to see if they thought the leaking was "normal." All declined.

    The sales mgr. gave the info. to his boss, so we will see where this goes.

    Day before yesterday, the service mgr. took a brand new 2005 Rocky Mt. Edition with a soft top right off the lot and sprayed a hose on it and guess what? It leaked as badly as mine. Surprise surprise. I got this VIN # of that car and asked them if they intended to sell it as a new car now, knowing that it leaks. No answer.

    I told the service mgr. and the sales mgr. that if Wranglers are designed to leak (at least according to the powers-that-be at Chrysler) I'd like them to show me the page in the manual where it says that. Also told them that they've been wasting their time trying to fix a problem that, apparently doesn't exist. Perhaps Chrysler should have told their people that Wranglers are "designed" to leak like Niagra Falls whenever it rains. Would save the guys and gals in the service dept. a lot of time.
  • herberjeherberje Member Posts: 2
    Only thing I have seen is on ebay, and they usually sell for over $500.
  • 99tj99tj Member Posts: 187
    that's really weird. After I posted last night, the pic looked huge. today it looks the size I intended it to be.

    believe it or not, I didn't lose much space switching from the add a trunk to the Soundeck.

    -Dan
  • dave__dave__ Member Posts: 80
    I have a 2004 Wrangler X and carry my hang glider on it. I bought the Congo Rack that Mac mentioned and I really like it. The glider is about 18 feet long so I needed to build a support on the front bumper too. You would probably not need that to carry a canoe.

    The thing I like best about the Congo Rack is that you can remove two bolts on the windshield mounts and then flip the whole rack backwards to put the top up or down. Very slick.

    If you go with any rack that requires you to remove the torx bolts on the windshield pillars I recommend you take some cash to a body shop and have them remove all the bolts you need. Search this forum for "Torx Bolts" to read my long frustrating story. Of course you're probably more mechanically inclined than I am so you may not have so many problems. :)

    Yours in Jeep Coolness,

    Dave
  • beachbumbeachbum Member Posts: 28
    Does anyone have any thoughts on the 30,000k service jeep dealers offer? It entails oil change, tire rotation, fluid checks/change, draining and checking the four wheel drive fluids, transmission etc. There are some more things they do and I was wondering if this is all neccessary or what are the most critical ones that should be done by the dealer. I have a 2002 wrangler, 6cyl. manual transmisson with A/C.

    Thank you
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    ........I was wondering if this is all neccessary or what are the most critical ones that should be done by the dealer.

    It's all necessary, no question, but none of it has to be done by a Jeep dealer. Many people do it themselves, the information on how to do it all is in your Owners Handbook, and you can make substantial savings that way.

    In fact, even if you chose to buy a floor jack and stands plus all the tools and parts required to do the entire 30K service, you'd still be ahead of what the dealer would charge you! ;)
  • keatskeats Member Posts: 412
    Wow, that is absolutely crazy. I can spray mine with a pressure washer and get no leaks anywhere with the soft or hard top on. It makes me wonder if the tub or the doors are tweaked. I hope you get satisfaction because that is just unacceptable.
  • drewmeisterdrewmeister Member Posts: 168
    Does seem strange. I have an 04 with hard doors and top, and I've taken it through the "brushless" wash that way a couple of times to get the grime off. A couple of drops get through around the back of the doors and tailgate, but certainly no "Niagra Falls" as described.
  • steavesteave Member Posts: 6
    How low can I lower the transfer case with lowering bars to maintain the stock drive shafts when doing a SOA with 3.5" lift springs?
    Thanks!
  • isimangisimang Member Posts: 5
    Thanks So Much and Take Care
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    How low can I lower the transfer case with lowering bars to maintain the stock drive shafts when doing a SOA with 3.5" lift springs?

    It doesn't really work that way. Total lift will equal about 7"-8" and dropping the t/c by an equal amount will return the propshafts approximately to their original angles. However, this will (a), point the front of the engine at the sky, (b), prevent you from operating either shifter, and (c), considerably reduce your ground clearance.

    The correct solution is fit a slip yoke eliminator to the t/c, and to use a rear propshaft with a double cardan joint and its own slip joint. The axles are then rotated to give the correct angles. Of course, you'll have to cut and reweld the front hubs to correct the castor angle.

    A 'Spring Over Axle' lift is one of the more difficult ways to lift a leaf sprung vehicle.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Thanks So Much and Take Care

    You're welcome! :D
  • beachbumbeachbum Member Posts: 28
    Thanks for the information. By the way, they charge about $700.000 for this service.
  • goducks1goducks1 Member Posts: 432
    You can definitely do better than that. I don't work on my Jeep quite as intensely as Mac does, but depending on the cost and messiness of the project I do a fair amount of the work myself. Tire rotation I get for free from the tire store where I bought my current BFGs. Spark plugs and wires are easy and not messy, I do those. A 10 year old can change the air filter.

    Oil changes are $20 at the place around the corner so I don't usually bother to do it myself anymore. The fluids to be changed every couple years or so are your coolant, manual or automatic transmission fluid, transfer case (which takes ATF fluid), and both differentials (make sure you have the $3 Mopar special additive for your rear one if you have the limited slip). Most quick-lube places will do those for a fraction of the price the dealership will charge you. Coolant and automatic transmission fluid changes are usually about $40 to $60 each, the others between $10 to $20 each. If you have them all done by the same place or shop, you ought to be able to argue down the price a bit. So figure between $100 and $150 for all the fluid changes and they should throw in your tire rotation for free. None of these "should be done by the dealer." These are not mechanically difficult tasks, they are the simplest of maintainence chores that mostly involve opening up a plug, draining out the old fluid, putting the plug back in and refilling with fresh fluid. $700 is a typical stealership ripoff.
  • greddengredden Member Posts: 30
    I have a 2004 Wrangler Sahara. I want to raise it a few inches. What recommendations are you there and what kind of price am I looking to pay? I've been looking at skyjacker. I need help!
  • greddengredden Member Posts: 30
    I am looking for the best, brightest fog lights. Any suggestions?
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    What do you want the lift for......i.e. looks/greater articulation/etc., etc.???
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Are you actually wanting to see better in the fog, or are you talking about auxiliary lighting?
  • beachbumbeachbum Member Posts: 28
    Thanks for the information. I thought the $700.00 was a bit much since I have had most of those services done at the local shop. I will have these done and save major mechanical problems for the dealership if the local shop can not handle.
  • barnz_69barnz_69 Member Posts: 75
    $700 is excessive. I had ALL my fluids changed in mid-august, and it cost me about $200 canadian. However, with the help of many on here, I have recently learned to do much of it myself, so next time it will esentially be just the cost of fluids (and synthetics now as well. The maintenance, is, of course, definitely worth the price of admission, and your Jeep will thank you for it.

    Ryan
  • greddengredden Member Posts: 30
    I'm wanting the lift for looks and some articulation. I want to be able to do some mild off roading, but I still want the ride to be good.
  • mac24mac24 Member Posts: 3,910
    Ok, if you want more than looks it'll be a suspension lift rather than a body lift. If you want a good ride you need to look further than the Skyjacker, though it is cheap. Ideally, you probably would be well suited by an OME (Old Man Emu)lift. Not the cheapest, but you do get what you pay for.
  • tsjaytsjay Member Posts: 4,591
    Gredden:

    I'm thinkin' we might have discussed this via posting or via emails, but where in southern IN do you live, and would a trip to Turkey Bay for some wheelin' be out of the question?

    Why don't you email me, and let's talk about it. My email is public in my profile here at Edmunds.

    I've been having trouble mustering enthusiasm for wheelin' since I lost my Puppy. It was our favorite thing, and it was something that we always did together. Ross Allen was my number one Jeepin' buddy. I'll bet I have been wheelin' 200 times, and he was with me all but three times. I sure miss him.

    Anyway, about your lift...

    If all you plan to do is mild wheelin', then there is no need for a big lift and big tires. The higher you go on your lift, the more you mess up your driveline angles. You reach a point at about 3" of lift where you need to make driveline angle correction. This can be done with a transfer case drop, but that just reduces the ground clearance that you had gained by the lift.

    There are all kinds of things that come into play with a big lift. The driveline angles that I just mentioned are one thing, but there is also steering geometry to consider. The axles are attached to the frame by control arms. When you raise the frame higher, as you do with a suspension lift, that has the effect of pulling the front axle towards the back of the Jeep and the back axle toward the front of the Jeep. This repositioning of the front axle will take you out of the desired range for castor, and it can even cause death wobble.

    I think good old Mac hit it right on the head. Get yourself an OME lift, and this will give you about 2.5" to 3" of lift. (The OME for TJs is nominally a two inch lift, but people get a little more than that usually, especially when they go with the heavy duty springs. Lots of folks say that the ride is better than factory with the OME springs and OME shocks, even with the heavy duty version.) You will need to drop the transfer case for driveline angle correction, but you should not need to mess with control arms. Your steering geometry will probably not be messed up enough to hurt anything, but you WILL need to have the front end aligned immediately after the lift is installed.

    A cheap alternative to a suspension lift would be a spacer lift, or "Budget Boost," as they are often called. Rubicon express makes a kit for just a little over $200, This gives you a 2" lift. Longer shocks come with that kit.

    Holler at me.

    Tom
    Have you hugged your Jeep today?

    http://home.earthlink.net/~tsjay53/
  • greddengredden Member Posts: 30
    I guess I'm talking about auxiliary lights. As if you didn't know, I'm new to this. Thanks
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