Jeep Wrangler

tntbeauty · April 2001

Will make this short in deference to Terry's comment (and because I know I can talk a person's ear off):

GoDucks, you are correct... I reside and work about 30 minutes west of Portland.

The only difference I can glean between my JGC experience, and those forlorn tales on the GC board, are that I have a 4.0L straight 6... NOT the V6/V8 Chrysler engine. This premise is substantiated by the fact that during my last service visit the mechanics at my dealership mentioned to me that they see a lot of problems with the V6 and V8's. I am told the straight 6 is an original Jeep engine... have no idea what validity that holds.

Not had any brake issues... over 40K miles and still on original pads/rotors. The Dealer does my tire rotations... in addition to everything else. Based on knowledge from the manufacturer I work for now, over lugging the nuts can cause warped rotors... maybe? Just a thought...

**waves Hi to Alee**

Going... don't want to overstay my welcome

)

Tara

tntbeauty · April 2001

I'm sorry... just one more thing:

Trey, thanks for the link on the Ultimate Tire stuff... will make use of that this weekend.

Take care all,

Tara

tsjay · April 2001

Hey, Buddy! I was pleasantly surprised to see a post from you after all this time. I hope this means we'll be hearing from you on a regular basis again????

How about getting into the chat with us tonight? That would be great!

Take care, and don't be such a stranger around here any more.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

saharanut · April 2001

hey tara..i was only kidding...
you can post as long as a message that you want too.
join us in chat tonight.
see you guys there!

snut
terry

twylie · April 2001

as a follow-up to tntbeauty's comment on not having rotor issues... I have heard the same thing that improper torque on the lug nuts can cause premature rotor warping. My experience on our '97 Explorer (also know for easily warped rotors) is thus. I was very good for the first 60k miles about keeping the lugs at 100 ft-lb. I would pull the wheels and retorque after coming home from a rotation. I never had a problem. I slacked off on this from 60-80k, which included 3 rotations (every 7k) and at 85k, had to have the rotors turned. It may be coincidence, but I'll be better about torquing them going forward. The only other advice that makes any sense to me is to avoid standing on the brakes HARD after using them to slow from freeway speeds (at the bottom of a ramp for example. Again, that's just my opinion; I could be wrong...

-twylie

tntbeauty · April 2001

**happy dance** May have not had the verbiage right... but my guess on the lug nuts has merit. Scary thought... I am probably absorbing more grease monkey info than I want to.

Trey, never heard about going easy on the brakes when they are hot... but that makes sense. While I drive like a bat outta heck, I am conscious about how I brake... to the point that I will shift down into second rather than ride my brakes down a hill. (Saw a technical demonstration on how literally red hot rotors can get from people who double foot etc. and every time I reach for the brake pedal that flashes in my mind.) Brake issues comprise maybe 15% of our calls... and I don't work for Ford. Seems as though that is a universal industry challenge... like the paint was on 88-92 American-made vehicles.

**blows a kiss to Terry** I know Sweetie... was teasing myself too. In my line of work you gotta be able to laugh at yourself.

Unlikely about Chat tonight... I am at the office until 9 or 10pm my time.

Happy Thursday!

Tara

dragonfly03 · April 2001

Wow, I hadn't realized how long it had been since I had posted last. Sparx has conquered Tellico.

) BIG GRIN. He ran with the big dogs and didn't even flinch when a rock ate his passenger step(hey, I didn't need that anyway)

) Spryo went to Uwharrie and we'll post pics later on. For Sparx's birthday this summer, I'm buying him a 2" Teraflex suspension lift and 32x10.50 tires. Should be awesome, I can't wait. I just wanted to welcome all the newcomers.

alee and sparx

http://sparx.muddyyellowjeep.com

drew_ · April 2001

Just a reminder that the Jeep Wrangler Thursdays chat is on at 6-7pm Pacific/9-10 pm Eastern. Hope to see you there!
http://www.edmunds.com/chat/jeepchat.html

Drew
Host
Vans, SUVs, and Aftermarket and Accessories message boards

tsjay · April 2001

Hey, guys and gals, I have added a couple pics of Thelma Jane topless and doorless on her web page.

http://members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html

Check her out.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

shotgundan · April 2001

Thanks for the referral to post #1774 about option on keeping the ligter powered up. I like the option of the additional cigarette lighter. I think I will start looking for a place to install one. My routine driving habit is approximately 12 miles each way to work in semi stop and go driving depending on which way I go. I have been getting 16.8 MPG on just my daily driving. Enjoyed the new pics that you updated on your web site. I need a digital camera to put some pics of the little dude out on the net. I am getting anxious to remove his top and doors. Back to the mileage I am averaging about 17.2 in all of my driving so far. I really don't usually keep records of my milage but just wanted to see how comprable the Little Dude was to Thelma Jane in teh milage department. Hope you and the rest of the posters here have a JEEP weekend.....

spyrodragon · April 2001

Alee all I have to say is I still love that last pic of the jeep on the rock you were amazing girl!

Wanted to welcome all the newbies or whatever you wanna be called BIG JEEP WAVE to all you guys... and gal. Would love to see some pics (yes, even of the Grand Cherokee!)

I'm going to the prom... unfortunatly not with my girlfriend Alee (don't ask) but with one of my friends... gonna be funny. We're taking my jeep so I'm going to bring a step stool so she can get in and out of my jeep with her dress on, since it's been lifted and all ya know. I'll have to take pics of this! LOL

Any one complaining about the gas milage... try 11 MPG!!! HA! Got yall all beat

About the warped rotors... yes it happens because over torqing the lugs, it also happens from allowing the brakes to heat up the be cooled off quickly... this happened to me from a downhill decent into a creek crossing... warped one of my rotors and had to be replace.

Happy Jeepin'

tsjay · April 2001

Congrats on the Jeep order! (For the rest of you guys that might not know, twinkles posted in Meet the Members)

My Thelma Jane is white too, but I have the black top.

Your purchase at invoice is as good as anyone is getting and better than most.

Welcome to the group!

I assume from your username that you are a female of the species?

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tntbeauty · April 2001

Love the yellow Jeep... (yellow being my favorite color)... and jaw dropping pictures! That is positively amazing... is that normal terrain for a Wrangler? I think Baby has too long of a body to handle something that arduous. Or maybe not... Wow... scared... but itching to try it.

I do have pictures of Baby, being a proud Mama... but no scanner. Will ponder that request from Spyrodragon. (Was very nice of him to include the GC interloper in the invitation. **wink**)

And a Question: In the past week I've had two conflicting pieces of advice relative to my 4WD:

Source A, a Brand Specialist where I work (other manufacturer), says I should run my Jeep in full 4WD, once a month, for at least 10 miles. He did say that if I cannot get into mud, that a straight patch of freeway would be fine.

Source B, Daddy, says that is insane; that Source A is providing that info based on the old locking hubs system... and that my 4WD stays lubed (sounds kinda kinky to me) all the time, so no need for the monthly run.

To date Baby has seen minimal 4WD action. A little bit in Olympia getting to my grandparents house that is up a "trail" (and I am being generous). Mostly I use Part Time in snotty weather... feels like a reluctant cat being picked up off of carpet when I hit a slickery spot. Rarely even use that though as I tote around 300#'s of gravel behind the rear seat in the winter... the extra weight providing enough gription that I rarely mess with the 4WD shift.

So New Friends: Obviously I am anxious to go play, but relative to vehicle maintenance: Bull or real about Baby needing a monthly 4WD run?

Tara

twylie · April 2001

FWIW...I think the suggestion to run the 4wd occasionally is a good one. Lubed or not, parts that are suppose to move will stand a better chance if they get an occasional workout. I would think you'd want to at least move the lever through the transfer case occasionally, but the point about this only applying to manual lockign hubs may be true. I don't know if 10 miles is neccesary, and I would try to find a gravel road to do it on. A straight stretch of freeway would work, but any turning may cause the running gear to wind up since the wheels can't slip. In my experience, the other componenet that is good to exercise is the A/C. On most newer cars, you have to move the rotary switch past the A/C settings in order to get to a non A/C setting but in some cars I've had (Nissan truck, and Toyo Supra) the A/C was engaged with a separate switch. The theory is that the seals on the compressor can flat spot if left sitting in the same place for a long time (all winter if you dont' need to use A/C.). Our Jeep requires you to move past the A/C settings when going from Off to anything else, so the compressor should spin briefly, keeping everything happy.

As with all my ramblings; just my opinion.

Wishing all a GREAT Jeep weekend! Warm weather, clear skies, and muddy trails...

-twylie

saharanut · April 2001

Hey guys..sorry i missed the chat last night..
i've had the crud the past few days..felt terrible. anyway what did I miss?
Great pic of Thelma Tsjay!!..You really need to get a soft top..I hope I have help getting my hard top off when or if I get my Jeep.
Keep posting guys & gal...

Take care!
Snut!

tonkadave · April 2001

For anyone interested, I am in D-1 status. that means my jeep is at Gateline and scheduled to be built. I got my VIN number today and also got an estimated ship date of 5-11-01 for my Tonkajeep. Now that I have the Vin, I can call the automated number to get updates. That date sounds better than the other day, when they said it would start down the line on the second week in May. They say it will take about 6 days to reach my dealer after that. Im not so sure though as I live right near a giant Auto Depot, where they take new cars off the trains and then ship them to the dealers by truck. I have been watching a couple of new jeeps that have just been sitting there all week.

wdubs · April 2001

Like Tonkadave, I got my VIN # today. I was told that it was put into D status today. It should stay there for 5 days before it goes to D1 status and then I should get my ship date. I placed my order on 4/13.

Tonkadave, when did you order your Jeep?

stever · April 2001

drcsf · April 2001

Tara: I would strongly disagree with the suggestion that you run "Baby" in full 4wd on dry pavement - I think that can potentially cause more damage that not engaging 4wd at all. The wheels need to slip independently. The 4wd system does not need to be periodically engaged as long as your maintenance is kept up. But if you want to "exercise" the 4wd, as suggested pick a gravel road. Or a soaking rainstorm where the roads are all wet. (I heard it rains in Oregon occasionally) Of course, the ultimate answer to this can come from your service department, where "everybody knows your name." Cheers. Craig

harleydavidson · April 2001

Has anyone been to this Jeep Jamboree before? If so, please give some info on what you thought of it. Anyone planning to go this year June 8-10th?

tjeep27 · April 2001

I've been searchin for quite some time now, but I can't find one anywhere. Does anyone know where I might find a 5-10 gallon exterior fuel tank to offer a little insurance for the trails?

spyrodragon · April 2001

TNTBeauty:
Yes it is good to run your jeep in 4wheel drive at least once a month, maybe not for your jeep but for you!

Get out and enjoy the outdoors. Dry pavement doesn't hurt your transfer case unless you turn. Even then it's not going to really damage anything unless you drive alot on dry pavement in 4wd. You'll feel it skipping or hopping. No that's not normal terrain for a STOCK TJ but with the sway bars disconnected Alee did just fine! Very impressive what those little jeeps can do. I wouldn't suggest doing some of those things in a stock GC just because of the ground clearance to the wheel base length, probably would bottom-out alot. But moderate trails are tons of fun too. Give it a try sometime

Harley:
I havn't been on that Jamboree but I can promise you that all of them are fun. Very enjoyable. Each of the Jamboree's have trails from everything for stock jeeps to ones with 4" of lift and 35" tires... Enjoy!

Happy Jeepin'

ottowrkr · April 2001

NEVER EVER drive your Jeep in 4 Hi or Low on dry pavement !!!. Only use 4 wheel drive on dirt , sand or very wet roads. . Did you know that there can be, and usually is a speed difference between the front and rear axles.That's also why all four tires must be the same size on a 4x4. If you drive on a hard dry solid surface the speed difference will cause premature wear on your driveline and eventually something will break. Your Jeep uses a non slip coupling in the transfer case. Now a Cherokee or Grand Cherokee that has full time 4 wheel drive the transfer case allows a certain amount of slippage so wear on the driveline is reduced .If you really think it is necessary to give your 4x4 a workout then find some sand or gravel . You don't have to drive fast or far , just let the parts get some movement

ottowrkr · April 2001

You said " Dry pavement doesn't hurt your transfer case unless you turn. Even then it's not going to really damage anything" That is so wrong. Like I said in my last post the difference in mph from the front axle to the rear axle is what causes wear in the transfer case. The problem you get when you turn the steering hard in 4 wheel drive is in the U-joints on the front axle binding. These are two different problems. All I can say is if you drive your Jeep on dry roads in 4 wheel drive be prepared to visit your dealer for service as your drivetrain will eventually fail . Another bit of advise when in 4 wheel drive ,try not to turn the steering wheel to full turn as this is very hard on the U-joints and they will break .Skipping or hopping is not how a 4 wheel drive system works , this is what damages them

tntbeauty · April 2001

... Craig, Trey, Spyrodragon, and Otto; excellent feedback!

What I gathered is that running in 4WD at least once a month couldn't hurt... unless I try to get fancy on dry pavement. Sounds as though dry pavement should be okay, but there is a likely hood I could do more harm than good (like if I end up in a tight spot and have to do some fancy maneuvering). So looks like I need to find a convenient patch of muck... all I have around me are fields of grass (for seeds). Good sand is a couple of hours away on the Oregon coast. **sigh**

Craig, perhaps I will call my Dealer. They are so nice to me, I didn't want to bug them with what I thought was going to be a "stupid" question... but based on the mixed input here, perhaps it is not such a dumb one after all. And, because I enjoy Baby so much, I want to do anything I can to keep her a long, long time. Will call them tomorrow and offer their insight here. While you all have Wranglers, my engine is the same size, and I bet our 4WD systems are similar... so we probably share a lot of common powertrain components.

Trey... interesting insight on the AC. My GC does have a separate button to push... will turn that on tomorrow (it has been months) and hope for the best.

Spyro... loved the mental health parallel to 4WD. I currently run to get that regular endorphin hit, but in reading highlights and looking at those amazing pictures Alee provided (I also nosed around your web site) I can see how that would be an adrenaline rush.

Tonkadave and dubs... you two are so cute... I have visions of the both of you sleeping with your new Jeeps the first night you get them. Keep sharing the updates... makes me smile to read the almost childlike anticipation.

Washing/Detailing Baby tomorrow... anyone want to help?

) Take care Friends,

Tara

(Terry... this one wasn't too long, was it? ;o) )

ottowrkr · April 2001

I thought you had a WRANGLER , from your profile you own a Grand Cherokee. Big difference ,I was giving you info for a Wrangler. Your GC has either Quadra-Trac or Selec-Trac full-time 4WD so driving on dry roads is OK. Sorry about that .

tsjay · April 2001

Hi Tara!

I once owned a '99 GCL 4 x4 with the SelecTrac four wheel drive system. Those babies have a "full time" four wheel drive position, and, as the name implies, you can drive full time in that position without hurting anything. In that position, you are still mostly pulling with the rear wheels until you get into a low traction situation.

They also have a "part time" four wheel drive position, and if you will check your owners manual, you will find that you are warned not to drive in that postion on dry paved roads.

Wranglers only have the part time four wheel drive, so they should NOT be driven in four wheel drive except in slippery conditions.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

ckingsbury · April 2001

According to the owner's manual on my '01 Sahara, when you set the air system to "defrost" it will activate the A/C compressor to dry the air out (for more effective defrosting). If this is true it would obviate the need for occasional running of the A/C during the winter months. Though I might need to run it occasionally during the summer, as I cool the car by putting the top down...

ckingsbury · April 2001

Well after putting the soft top on last Monday, then getting snowed on Wednesday, Friday afternoon finally offered warm enough conditions to go topless. I got a lot of waves and jealous looks from Jeepers who still haven't taken off their hard tops. I just don't get it- why the hell buy a convertible if you don't drop that top every chance you can get? Isn't that what sunroofs are for?

-cwk.

jthurlow · April 2001

I have a '99 Sport, with the six cylinder engine, auto transmission, 28" stock tires, cruise control, and the 3.07 ratio.

I ordered the jeep from the factory two years ago, after a lot of homework. The ratio was the elusive factor to unravel.

Two friends of mine had '98 Six Cylinder Saharas with the Auto Transmission, along with the 30" tires and the HD shocks. They bought these jeeps off of dealer lots. After a lot of home work, I concluded that this 30" tire "Canyon" package also included the 3.73 rear end ratio. (note: every six cylinder engine new jeep I have seen recently on dealer lots here in Central Georgia has the "Canyon" package.)

My friends liked their jeeps except for gas mileage--14 MPG was the reported highway mileage from both.

I was planning on using my jeep for hunting--on our hunting lease, and in GA wildlife management areas. I concluded that I would always be on a road--unpaved--but still a road of some kind. I decided that the stock Sport jeep with 28" tires and the 3.07 ratio would suffice. After two years, I have navigated a lot of muddy/bumpy roads with 4WD, but never had problems--I have never been stuck.

Back to the elusive 3.07 ratio: I told the dealer that I wanted the standard 3.07. However, there is no ratio documentation on the sticker, inside door plate, or any documentation that came with the jeep. Per a comment on this forum, I found a metal tab sticking up on the rear end differential housing that had "3.07" stamped in the corner.

A question has been asked about RPMs and mileage with the stock Sport, 3.07 ratio, and 28" tires; here is my experience:

55MPH: 2050-2100 PM
60MPH: 2250 PM
70MPH: 2600-2650 PM

(note: the tach is calibrated in 250 PM increments; some readings are estimates.)

I am a conservative driver on the highway with the jeep, and stay in the high 50s-low 60s. Generally, I get mid-teen mileage around town and low 20s on the highway. Today, I went to Griffin GA; 130 miles @ 60 MPH on cruise control, and 15 miles on back roads: I got 22.5 MPH on this trip.

The above summarizes my experiences. I am glad that I ordered the 3.07 ratio as it is adequate for my needs and results in reasonable gas mileage. Question: any idea the extent to which cruise control impacts gas mileage?

Also, the six cylinder engine was reported as updated for the year 2000--does anyone have any positive or negative impacts of this update?

One last possible mileage impact: jeeps for delivery to California, and certain other states, are calibrated to meet California's emission standards--mine is not one of these. Does anyone know if meeting such standards impacts gas mileage?

Best Regards,

John Thurlow

tntbeauty · April 2001

Called my Dealer today... and you all were exactly on the money. (And, for the record, the Asst Service Manager I spoke to did seem to think the question a little odd.)

My Jeep GCL, does not need to be run in 4WD, except for the Mental Health benefits Spyro alluded to.

) However, should I choose to just run that lever through the paces, using Part Time won't hurt on the freeway, because it won't engage unless it gets slippery; and apparently using Full 4WD won't hurt either. (Thought he was at a loss to explain to me why... just assured me it wouldn't hurt anything.) Lastly, James told me that he had never heard that recommendation relative to any Jeep product. Interesting...

Did some errand running with Mom, and found a Sahara parked next to my Baby when we came out of one store. That thing was HUGE! Beautiful though.. dark green with a tan top. Tires half again larger, making it significantly taller than Baby, the wheel base only maybe a foot shorter.

) Based on the enthusiasm from this crowd, nice to know I am not the only one who smiles when my Jeep gets some parking lot visit time with another of the family.

Take care all... and thanks again.

)

Tara

twylie · April 2001

welcome to the board. Where in GA are you? I know pizzadude (absent for a while) and I are from ATL. SOunds like you mileage is definitley better than those with the 30" wheel group and 3.73 axle. I'm running lower rpm's on the freeway (2300 @ 70mph) but I think the fun of the Jeep is keeping our mileage from getting any better. I think the engine change for 2000 was the inclusion of the coil-on-plug ignition system that does awa with the distributor and plug wires. Thanks for the good info on your experiences and drop in Thur PM for the chat if you have a chance.

-twylie

twylie · April 2001

I swapped the factory Champions with less than 700 miles on them for a set of Bosch platinums this morning. $12 and 30 min. The idle is about 50-100 rpms higher with 95% of the vibration gone. The throttle response immediately after shifting is improved and it eliminated the occasional hesitation when accelerating. I thought it might be psychological, but my wife commented immedaitely when we went out to dinner tonight. The factory plugs had a fair bit of soot on them around the insulator and the electrodes were not well aligned on 2 of the 6 plugs. I put a coat of anti-sieze on the new ones before installing and the coil bar was a snap to remove. I'll post a follow-up after I've put a few hundred miles on them, but so far, it made a real difference.

Last night, we took the Jeep to a bonfire party. The new Jeep provided the tunes. The best part was getting to climb a big hill leading up to the party. The hill was almost 40 degrees and I climbed it in 4LO (just because I didn't have any other occasion to use it yet). I later went back up it in 4HI, but in 4LO, it feels like you could climb a wall! Coming down the hill in 4LO was a treat in that I let it idle down in 1st gear and just crept along, allowing the engine to slow our descent. Everone else had to take a pass and go around the long way and one highlight was watching a friend try to climb it in their CRV. After 2 failed attempts, I yelled to him that I had a strap and could pull him up if he wanted! He later acknowledged that the CRV was fine for suburban roads but wasn't a 4 wheeler. I then said, "but at least you can take the top off... No, wait a minute, that's out Jeep, too." He said the only way he'd forgive me for being so cruel was if I'd let him drive.

-twylie

jthurlow · April 2001

Twylie: I believe earlier you, or someone, asked if the 3.07 was available with the six cylinder engine and five speed transmission.

From a careful reading of the Jeep catalog and Edmund's web site on options, I believe the following applies:

If you get the stock 5-speed Sport with 28" tires, and no additional rear end options, then the 3.07 is standard.

However, with the above stock jeep, I believe you can request the 3.73 at no extra cost.

If you order any of the following with your five speed, then the 3.73 is included: 1/ DANA 44-3 rear axle 2/ 30" Tire and Wheel Group 3/ Trac-Loc and ABS ordered together

If you wish to buy a jeep with the 3.07 from a dealer's new jeep inventory, it is tough to find one. Every new six cylinder engine jeep I have seen on a dealer's lot here in Central Georgia has the 30" "Canyon" option. (This probably is a high profit margin option for the dealers)

I live in Warner Robins; I am retired from the Air Force.

Best Regards,

John Thurlow

tsjay · April 2001

Welcome to the group! Always nice to have a new contributor.

It has sure been quiet in here the last couple days, so your posts were especially welcome.

Nothing more boring than a discussion group with no discussions!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

scomo · April 2001

Hello fellow Jeepers! I am planning on ordering a 2001 Sport within the next month, after I take care of some "homework" and I was wondering what everyone has been paying? I have heard a few hundred dollars over dealer invoice, but since DC is having a $500 rebate I was hoping to get one right at invoice. Does this "invoice pricing" include "destination charges", or is that in addition to the negotiated price? What's a reasonable price? I also saw Wrangler sales were down a whopping 30% this year! I wonder what gives? Thanks in advance for the help!!

Scomo

madman390 · April 2001

Don't mean to stir things up with this, but I just looked over my order info and I have the 3.07 on my Sport (I-6), along with the ABS, TRAC-LOC and standard wheels. I did not opt for the 3.73, but then, I really didn't know enough at the time to make an informed choice. As I plan on driving about 60% on pavement (with winter snow and ice) and 40% off pavement, I don't think the 3.07 will be a detriment. And if it gives me better gas mileage, then that's another plus!

Just my 2cents worth.

Madman

sasquatch_2000 · April 2001

Why would anyone want the 3.07 over the 3.73 anyhow?

By the way, welcome (belated) to tnt... and I also do not have a JEEP (still considering...)

madman390 · April 2001

Welcome to the club! This is certainly the right place for all of your questions.

Here's what I have seen in these postings, and others regarding price.

The $500 rebate is scheduled to end on April 30, so act fast. You can still get the rebate, as long as you order before it ends. I don't know what will happen after April 30. It could be extended, increased, decreased, or dropped altogether. One dealer I talked to thought it would be dropped since sales, especially summer fun vehicles like Wranglers, typically increase during the summer. Although if sales really are down 30%, it could really make the rebates better.

Regarding the destination fees, those are typically included as part of the invoice price. For Wranglers, it's typically $585. The advertising fees are a different story. Some dealers will not negotiate on that at all, and others will. Shop around.

Bottom line, you should be able to pay pretty close to or right at invoice price. (Dealers will define invoice price differently.) With the rebate, I paid $300 over invoice(with $585 destination fee), which coincides with a $300 "Chrysler National & Zone Advertising Charge."

Good luck. Keep the questions coming. And keep us posted.

Madman

wdubs · April 2001

scomo: If you are planning on ordering before the rebate ends, you only have a week left. The rebate expires on April 30, 2001. I ordered a 2001 Wrangler Sport over a week ago and paid $200 over invoice minus the $500 doller rebate I paid $300 under invoice. You have to pay destination charge so just count that in with the price.

scomo · April 2001

Thanks for the fast replies! You all hit on part of my question. When I tell the dealer I'll pay $200 over invoice or whatever, does this "invoice" price INCLUDE the destination, or will I be paying $200 over invoice plus another $500 for the destination for a total of $700 over invoice? Don't want to give 'em anymore that I have to!! Thanks...

Scomo

yellowman · April 2001

Yes, it includes the destination. Just go ahead and factor that in as $585. It is true that some dealers will take a little off that, but really they're just playing with numbers - if they tell you they'll lower it or eliminate it, you can bet they'll pump something else up to make it back. Best to just assume it's $585, non-negotiable, and leave it at that. What they did manage to slip by me were advertising fees. In my case they came to about $220, but I didn't realize it until after I signed on the dotted line. Had I noticed earlier, I would have at least questioned it, since mine was a special order from the factory, so they shouldn't have to advertise it at all. Best of luck ordering the new sled!

Mike

pizzadude · April 2001

Hey Spyro,

how is the lift? Are you still satisfied with it? I'm really itching to get mine setup...I priced out all the parts i think i would need and came to around 2700$. That was with the SYE and new driveshaft...one other question, what shocks did you buy? TeraFlex or other brand?

The last post you said your mpg was down to like 11 or so. That sounds pretty low...might make me change my mind or at least hold off.

Later on...hope your tops off? Finally got mine down for all day and tomorrow i think. The garvin rack works great being able to tilt and all. Talk to you later.

keep jeepin'

-pizzadude

twylie · April 2001

email me offline (address in profile) and I'll send you some pics of the sub in the console. I have shots of how to get everything apart if you want to tackle fabricating something yourself.

-twylie

tsjay · April 2001

I'm at work, so I must be brief.

The $585 destination fee is consdidered part of the "invoice price." If you buy at $200 over invoice, that will include the destination fee, and you won't have to pay $200 plus $585.

Also, there is a nation-wide advertising fee that EVERYBODY pays, and this is also built into the invoice price. However, in metro areas, it is common to have to pay an addtional ad fee that is NOT included on the invoice.

You should NOT pay more than $200 over invoice on a new Wrangler. You MIGHT have to pay that addtional ad fee, depending on the area you live in.

Also, that $500 rebate comes to YOU, not to the DEALER. So, if you buy for $200 over invoice, you STILL get the $500 rebate, which has the net effect of buying at $300 under invoice.

I have heard of a few people actually getting their Wranglers at invoice price, but it is VERY common for people to get them at $200 over.

Hope this helps.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

P.S.

The nationwide ad fee that everyone has to pay is included in the invoice, like I said, but when you look up the invoice cost of a vehicle in Edmunds, it plainly states that Edmunds DOES NOT include this fee.

pizzadude · April 2001

Hey Spyro,

how is the lift? Are you still satisfied with it? I'm really itching to get mine setup...I priced out all the parts i think i would need and came to around 2700$. That was with the SYE and new driveshaft...one other question, what shocks did you buy? TeraFlex or other brand?

The last post you said your mpg was down to like 11 or so. That sounds pretty low...might make me change my mind or at least hold off.

Later on...hope your tops off? Finally got mine down for all day and tomorrow i think. The garvin rack works great being able to tilt and all. Talk to you later.

keep jeepin'

-pizzadude

yellowman · April 2001

Hey twylie

Thanks for the sub advice. However, I don't think I'm mechanically inclined enough to pull a job like that. Also, although I liked the idea of a removable sub, I'd rather have something mounted inside the console that I don't ever have to think about or move. I live on the third floor of an apartment building and sometimes have to park 3 or 4 blocks away, so having to remove and replace the sub from time to time for space reasons probably isn't the best solution for me. I have yet to go to Good Guys or Al & Ed's Autosound to see what kind of options they have. When I do I'll give you an update.

yellowman

p.s. - Just received my full Jeep cover in the mail from Quadratec today. I'll probably do a washing tomorrow afternoon and then throw that puppy on! Weather's getting warmer - I'm starting to anticipate the big top-off day!

yellowman · April 2001

Howdy, welcome to the board! I saw your post in Meet the Members. Regarding your question about the SE vs. the Sport...I got the SE as well - after about 3 weeks, I'm very happy with it. I definitely would love to have a little more power on the freeway...Right now I occasionally get up to maybe 77 or 78 and that's about it. I haven't tried pushing it farther for fear of engine damage. All it really means is I've been spending more time in the middle lanes than I used to. Bottom line - you'll be happy with the SE, but in the back of your mind you'll resolve to go for the Sport next time when (hopefully!) you'll have more money to spend.

yellowman

goducks1 · April 2001

Tsjay, I hate to disagree with you, but I think you are not entirely correct with the above posting. Advertising fees vary from region to region. I didn't pay one and was never asked to do so. The dealer and I opened up his pricing binder, added up the invoice price for the Jeep with my options (matched what I had printed off Edmunds), added $200 as "fair" profit, then subtracted the $500 rebate. Finally, we added on the non-negotiable shipping fee which was exactly what edmunds said it would be. We put in the order on the computer, I put down my deposit, and the Jeep came four weeks later.

I had a cooperative dealer, which helped. If I lived in a state with a sales tax, I imagine we would have added that in right before subtracting the rebate. None of these weird advertising fees ever came up, and I don't know how I would handle them, but I suspect they are a rip-off.

spyrodragon · April 2001

The lifts great... My girlfriends jeep looks so small now.

I got the Doestech 4000 shocks... should have gone with the OME but I got the shocks for like 27 bucks a piece or something like that so they were cheep. It sways a little but nothing too bad I also need to put a bigger steering stabalizer in, didn't have the $ to do that to begin with but I do now. I think that will solve the biggest problem of having so much play in the steering now. I hope to have some pics up soon but I don't have any really good ones because I just blasted through everything and my girl didn't have time to take pics. Put it this way, you will lose acceleration and gas millage, but I think mines down also because I have 3.07 gears (gonna change that too) and a 60lbs. Kilby gas skid plate and a brush guard up front... But I feel HUGE driving down the road and unstoppable off-road, except I need a locker BAD! Of course the tops off, it's like 80 here.

Happy Jeepin'

Jeep Wrangler

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