MINI Cooper

micweb · May 2004

Thanks for the compliment! My frequent changes are costly, but I haven't been hammered on negative equity so far, even on the "no-down" deals; just because I have been a lucky (and careful) shopper.

I was thinking about getting rid of the xA and Echo (which I got back from my mother, swapped her the Cavalier). I like the xA a lot, but the MINI is the "real thing." The Echo has an auto, which my wife will need if she starts driving, and a bigger trunk than any of the three cars (MINI, xA, Echo) but I want to gradually reduce the number of cars I have.

markjenn · May 2004

Well, life's short and if you really want one bad, it's not a big deal. My 2004 has been perfect - I think BMW has really turned the corner on 90% of the issues nagging the early ones.

And I certainly wouldn't be the worried in the slightest about letting the 2005 production "stabilize". The changes are very evolutionary and minor - it is not like there is a new engine, new body style, or any other huge change. I'd be happy buying the first 2005 off the line. It is the first year(s) of a completely new model or a complete re-design you have to worry about.

- Mark

lngtonge18 · May 2004

I went into another car buying frenzy myself. I sold my 92 Miata and bought a 90 RX7 convertible to replace it. I also just bought a 93 Mitsu Expo LRV Sport. So now I own a grand total of 5 cars!

mrjjgittes · May 2004

It seems like regular minis are going for $21-22k, and S's for mid-$20s. Used 2003s are not much less. Anybody in So Cal do better than this at a dealer? I'd love a Mini as a third car, but the street prices seem steep, considering the base msrp for a non-S model is under $17k. Big mark-ups around here, seem like...

markjenn · May 2004

As discussed quite a bit in this and other threads, MSRP deals are available over much of the rest of the country if you're willing to travel.

- Mark

micweb · May 2004

Before taxes and license. Doc fee in California is limited to $45.

I started with all the options that looked good, trimmed down to all the options that I wanted, then trimmed further to the options I am willing to pay for.

Basically, just DSC and multifunction steering wheel with speed control, plus the price increase. No added dealer markup.

canc · May 2004

I've been a Mini fan for some time now, and until today, I've mostly been much of a lurker, simply because I don't have a Mini and can't comment on my experiences as a Mini owner.

In any case, I'm wondering, what is it that this car has that makes us still like it? After all, from the posts I've read here at least, this car appears to be underpowered, overpriced, expensive to maintain and repair, handles extremely well but doesn't spare the driver from any of road bumps and cracks. You can only have it serviced at authorized Mini dealerships, and all engine grades require premium fuel.

Also, if we were to compare the Mini to, say, the Toyota Corolla, here's what I found in terms of engine performance:

Corolla: 1.8L DOHC, 130 hp @ 6000 RPM,
             125 lb torque @ 4200 RPM
             Weight (LE): 2615 lbs
             Fuel: Regular octane, (29 city / 38 highway)

Mini: 1.6L SOHC, 116 hp @ 6000 RPM,
             110 lb torque @ 4500 RPM
             Weight (Cooper): 2557 lbs.
             Fuel: Premium octane, (25 city / 32 highway)

As you can see, the Corolla not only outperforms the Mini, but is also more fuel-efficient at the same time. Now some people here might say that I'm comparing apples to oranges, because the Cooper and the Corolla are two different cars, but I tend to think otherwise. Both are small cars, and although the street Corolla isn't the same one found in ralleys, I think the chances of getting your $25,000 Mini in a ralley anytime soon are pretty close to nil.

Mind you, I'm not knocking the Mini; I still love that car, and am trying to understand why people like it so much when there are more logical choices around. Maybe it's because the styling is so different? Maybe the other Mini fans would be able to explain this. Over to you guys.

micweb · May 2004

It's an entry level BMW - good engineering, personality, good dealer support - but since it is sold as a MINI it doesn't have to fit the traditional BMW luxo-German mold. It can be quirky "English."

qbrozen · May 2004

Why do you say the corolla outperforms the Mini? Because it has more power? heck, my father's diesel silverado pickup has more power than my Volvo, but it doesn't come close to outperforming it. In other words there is much more to performance than power or straight line acceleration.

crunch · May 2004

A MINI isn't a 'car' its a motoring experience. If you are looking for the most 'bang for the buck' look elseware, you will never be happy with your choice.
Have you taken a test drive? From your post I would think not.
Go drive one. That should answer all your questions and you should leave the dealer with a clear understanding of whether or not a MINI is for you.

markjenn · May 2004

Spec will only get you so far. While they were still being produced, $25K Camaro Z28s spec'd as the performance car bargain of the century, but Chevy couldn't sell enough to keep them in production.

You can look at it two ways:

1) The Mini is way over-priced for an exceptionally small, slightly underpowered, virtually no cargo space, and very poor riding two-door hatch.

2) The Mini is way underpriced for an exceptionally good handling, very sporty, very well-built BMW.

Both viewpoints are valid.

Honestly, drive the Corolla and a Mini back-to-back. If the Corolla seems like the better car, then there is little reason to suffer driving a Mini.

Or go the middle ground: a Mazda 3. This is the best car today in straddling between a fun-to-drive and sporty car, but one with some comfort and practicality.

- Mark

307web · May 2004

Not really. It's not BMW-like at all. People who want these, want only these or something else quirky like a New Beetle or xB.
The cheap BMW was the 318ti. If the 1 or 2 series come, then that will be the next cheap BMW other than used.

canc · May 2004

Well, numbers don't lie... true, the Mini is 100 lbs. lighter, but it's a SOHC with 118 hp vs. a DOHC engine (with VVT-i) that gets 130 hp at the same peak (6000 RPM). In a drag race, I'd put my money on the Corolla.

canc · May 2004

You're right, I didn't test drive one. I also agree that the Mini won't be the winner in the value category, because it's a special niche car marketed by BMW. It's a specialized import, and that alone commands a premium.

What do you mean by saying that a Mini isn't a car, but a "motoring experience"?

canc · May 2004

The Camaros didn't sell all that well because people quickly recognized them for their overall poor build quality and reliability--not to mention the high insurance rates that went with them. The Corolla, on the other hand, is one of the most reliable cars on the road. There's a reason why you see them everywhere.

I don't know if I'm ready to say that the Mini is a "very sporty, very well-built BMW". Just because BMW bought them and spent resources on making it better, doesn't mean that it IS a BMW--that's kind of like saying the Toyota Camry is a Lexus ES 330. A Toyota Camry, even the XLE version, simply isn't a Lexus. If you want a Lexus, shell out the extra $10,000. Same goes with a Mini.

qbrozen · May 2004

Again, performance is more than straight line acclereration.

And, if you merely want to drag race, then buy a bike.

crunch · May 2004

I think that you should first take a test drive. It might make more sense then. If you're really a MINI person, the test drive will bring it out.
The folks that I know bought their MINIs for emotional reasons more so than financial, environmental, safety, performance etc,etc.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy the attention I get in the MINI but I really ENJOY driving the MINI. By enjoy, I mean GRINNING ALL THE TIME I'm behind the wheel. Always looking for an excuse to drive it. Its been a looooong time since a car provoked that kind of behavior from me.

canc · May 2004

That's what I mean... what exactly makes you grin?

crunch · May 2004

What makes me grin.......
Its quick, extremely responsive, flat cornering, feels totally stable, easy to move about in traffic, great brakes. It's kinda like driving a street legal go-cart. Almost everyone notices it and then they respond with a big smile or a thumbs up or both. Almost every time I park, someone has questions. It just makes me feel good! You really need to go drive one!!

micweb · May 2004

...rather have a Camry.

People don't get enthusiastic about Corollas. They are appliances.

People get enthusiastic about MINI's because they are meant for people who like to drive...which is rare these days.

At the same time a MINI is more "practical" than, say, a Miata. Stiffer body, fewer rattles, takes four (two of them desperate) people in a pinch.

Sure you can load a MINI up with options to the point where you scratch your head. BUT, MINI's don't come "loaded" on the lot. Generally you can order just what you want. This is nice. There is no premium charge for ordering; you don't give up a "sale special price" when you order. In fact, usually ordering one is actually cheaper.

A MINI looks expensive, but it's actually not:

My typical bargain basement sporty ride is a Focus or Neon. These depreciate terribly. They come with few niceties if you want a real bargain - other wise they are mid-teens. The MINI is upper teens, if you want to be careful with the options, yet it holds its value incredibly well which more than makes up for the initial premium paid.

The MINI I have ordered is around $18,500. What other neat car can you get for that price? Not an RSX. Not a PT Cruiser (except for an underpowered, soft handling Base model). Not even a Mazda 3...

On top of a reasonable entry level price, on the MINI all facory maintenance is included for 3/36,000 or for an extra $500 for 4/50,000. The car is bumper to bumper warrantied for 4/50,000. There is very little risk of ownership (no ugly repair or maintenance surprises) during a typical ownership period and very high resale value. I will be buying mine, but many people lease them, with good lease rates from BMW, and presumably there is even "market risk" with a lease.

As I see it, the "Corolla" argument makes more sense if you talk about practicality, and not the Fun to Drive factor: the Corolla has a bigger rear seat, and a LOT bigger trunk. But, the Corolla won't handle like a go kart, and doesn't have factory performance options ranging from cheap to replace stock tires (cheap even in a plus zero 195/60-15 upgrade to Bridgestone 950's) to very high performance tires; from good stock suspension to outstanding sport suspension; from gas sipping commuter engine, to rallye worthy supercharged engine to the Cooper Works package.

Unlike the Neon and Focus that still offer "tossable" cars with sprightly engines, you don't have to fool around upgrading this suspension bit or that on a MINI - shocks a little stiffer, or a bigger swaybar, or lowering springs. The stock tires/standard suspension and center of gravity on the MINI results in a go kart with comfort. When I test drove the MINI, I realized this was what I was missing in 44,000 miles of VW Golf ownership - that "glued to the road," doesn't roll feeling. That was with stock suspension! For $500 more, upgraded roll bars, springs give a "super" go kart.

Where else can you "custom fit" a car to your personal driving tastes like this, for such a low price, from the factory, with a warranty? Where else can you get the city/highway mileage of the MINI and still have a 124mph tested top speed? (No, it won't get there that fast, and I wouldn't want to drive that fast, but it's nice to know you can do a high speed pass with vehicle stability intact.)

BMW advertises low price, entry level cars from time to time, but try to find a dealer that has them. Besides, BMW's come with a high "arrogance" factor. MINI's are humble and fun...talk quietly and generate high lateral G's in the curves. That's nice.

To me, it's the difference between a car that's an appliance, and a car that has character and history...between a car that will be gone in five years (the Scions and Mazda3's) and a car that can roll forward, won't be oversold, will still be "special" to own.

Is that worth the small number of dealerships and patience it takes to order? Is that worth possibly being tomorrow's overlooked Beetle or PT Cruiser when the honeymoon is over? Yeah, because the MINI has it's nostalgia element, but at the same time, it's built on a world-class "premium minicar" platform ... something popular in Europe, and that I'd like to see take hold over here. It's an upscale small car, and unlike upscale Golfs, for example, it isn't diluted by a bunch of cheap models. Every MINI has the usual power package; my 2001 Golf had crank windows and manual mirrors.

Go to the miniusa website. There is a lot of "under the hood" and history information there. I'd say BMW has really gotten into the spirit of the car...while BMW engineering has also made its way into the car.

crunch · May 2004

Well said micweb! I agree totally but I would NEVER type that much. I love to drive, the Mini loves to be driven. What else is there to say!

canc · May 2004

Thanks for your post. It's true that most Corolla owners aren't that passionate about their cars as the Mini owners on this forum are.

One day I'll test drive a Mini... and will probably want one.

Question though: Owners here have commented that the ride is harsh. How harsh is it really? Is it as harsh as the Corolla, or on par with it? Obviously it'll be harsh if you're going from a Lexus to a Mini, but owners that are used to smaller cars might not see a big difference? I test drove a Civic, and found the drive to be very harsh. Maybe owners can comment on this one. Thanks!

markjenn · May 2004

I wonder if some of you have actually driven a Mini.

I've owned several BMWs including an M3. The Mini is most definitely a BMW. It has the same rock-solid feel, the same attention to driving dynamics, the same great suspension and solid brakes. It's FWD with all the compromises that entials and it's a not nearly as fast as the higher-performance 3-series and 5-series, but it mostly definitely drives like a BMW and drives NOTHING like a Corolla or any other Japanese small car.

Build quality is a match to the bigger BMWs as well, although obviously compromises have been made to materials and fit/finish to make a car that sells for 40%-70% less. Granted, the Mini has had reliability issues, but that's very BMW as well - almost any new BMW model has teething problems. And it is astounding how many fewer problems are being reported with the 2004s.

And the ES330 most definitely IS a guzzied-up Camry. Different trims, different options, but underneath the skin, it's a Camry and drives like one. (Not that Camry's are bad cars.) If you could somehow drive both a ES and a Camry without being able to see which car you're driving, I doubt you could tell the difference.

- Mark

markjenn · May 2004

The Mini does have a harsh ride. If you describe a Civic as riding harsh, then I think you'd find a Mini to be quite punishing.

It really doesn't sound like a car for you. There are lots and lots of better all-around compromises in small cars.

- Mark

crunch · May 2004

My answer to the harshness question is 'it depends'. We own two Minis.
Mini number one is a base Mini with the standard 15" wheel and tire package. Normal suspension and it rides as well or better than most smallish cars. Docile and not to bumpy even on our concrete Texas roads and still has a good bit of sporty grip. Mini #2 is a bit different. Cooper S, stiffer suspension and the high performance 17" run flats (known for rough ride due to sidewall stiffness) and some after market suspension mods. It also has sport seats. I wouldn't call it harsh because the sport seats offer a bit of help but let's just say that I am aware of everything that goes under the wheels that's bigger than say, a lady bug! Most anyone else would call it harsh. I'll be nice and call it firm.
So you really have a choice. Get a base Cooper with 15" wheels and the ride is good and then gets progressively stiffer as you go up in wheel size and/or add the sport suspension. A suggestion is to get the Sport Seats on a base Cooper if you add the bigger wheels. (not a problem if you order the sport package as they are part of it).

canc · May 2004

Ouch... the Cooper S sounds pretty harsh. Yeah, I'd definitely go with the Base Cooper; I'm not all that interested in the supercharger anyway, not to mention the price difference.

commofficer · May 2004

Just thought I would sound in. We have the family car, a 2004 AWD Chrysler Pacifica which rides great and guzzles gas like a good old American car should. My wife loves it too except for blind spots and fuel economy. I drive a 195K+ mile 1993 Mazda Protege to work everyday and I have become very accustomed to the harsh ride. I just had a disc in my spine fixed last summer so that also goes towards my feeling of how the car rides. The 93 Protege is harsh.
I drove a Mini Copper S with the JC Works package which is probably the harshest ride available from the dealer and LOVED it! I am that person that owns the crappy little econo box and drives it back and forth to work until it dies. I will replace it with a Mini Copper S but leave the JC Works package off due to the huge price increase. If you buy a Corolla, which my father-in-law did, and then drive it for say 15 years then you will try to sell it and find that it is worth less than the soil that it would displace if you bury it in the backyard. Honestly, my Protege is worth something like $400 dollars. It's a great little car but most people want something else. I think the Mini will have that something else after 15 years of driving it. I also feel like it would be worth saving and fixing up for one of the kids when they are ready to drive and maybe I'll want a new one.

I'll spend a couple of months with the military in Iraq or Afghanistan to get some good tax free cash and then buy the Mini. I hope to sell the Mazda for something but like I stated earlier, it's a boring car with no "smile factor". It's an "A to B" vehicle and I did get more than every penney out of it that I put into it. I would recommend the Protege or now 3 to anyone who is looking for good reliable transportation and they are cheaper but it's not all about that when you set your sights on the Mini.

Drive one and see what you think. I agree that the sport seats are a requirement and you can only get lumbar support with the leather package which I now need due to the back surgery. Moonroof should be part of any Mini even for people like me who have so little pigment in our skin that we burn under a 60 Watt light bulb. It just makes it feel bigger.

Rambling on now so it's time to go.

Take care and test drive the Mini just for kicks. You'll smile on your drive home if nothing else.

Later
Phil

markjenn · May 2004

Phil, interesting post.

But in 2015, how much will a 2004 Mini Cooper with 195K miles be worth? Oh, I'd say about $400.

- Mark

commofficer · May 2004

Well Mark you might be right. I looked on EBay for kicks and all those cars that I wanted to buy but couldn't afford back in 1989 are now worth less than a $1,000 bucks. I still think the Mini will be worth saving though.
They had an advertisement in the paper today for a base Mini with the Sport package and no money down for $269/mo. It was a 36 month lease with 10K miles/year. Real tempting but I will wait. Not a lease person.

Later
Phil

markjenn · June 2004

If the depreciation rates on these guys stay as low as they are now, I may just trade every couple years. It appears it will only cost about $2K/year in depreciation. Figure another $75/month in cost of capital (either forgone interest or loan servicing costs), and you're looking at all-up costs of about $150/month + gas + insurance to drive a virtually new, very sporty, very fun car. Unbeatable.

- Mark

greyscale · June 2004

First, I want to thank everyone posting for the fantastic input -- I have learned so much here. I made a deposit two weeks ago and dealer called today and is ready to take my specs (2005). I have just a couple outstanding questions.

My dealer didn't have the "black eye purple" for me to look at. This new 2005 color is replacing Indi Blue. My heart is set on either red or yellow, but I wouldn't mind at least seeing the new color before placing my order. Has anyone seen it, and is it anything like Indi Blue?

Can I order the dimming rearview mirror on its own? I recall it came in a "package" that I didn't want. If I can't get it, I take it the rearview mirror does the little flipping thing for night driving? (Those SUV headlights drive me nuts.)

This sounds stupid, but the first Mini I ever saw was Mr. Bean's! Ever since then, I have wanted a yellow one. Then, when the Cooper hit a couple years ago, the first one I saw on the street was yellow! Does anybody here think it is stupid to pick out a color based on "resale" value? I'm wondering if yellow is a less-popular color?

Where do you buy the fuzzy dice?

And in case you can't tell from my post, I am an auto novice, and this will be the first new car I have ever purchased (I'm 45). Again, thanks for the great posts. Grey

markjenn · June 2004

Congrats.

Mini2 is about the best resource for viewing lots of pictures of other people's cars to get an idea of what you like/dislike, especially with the varying interior treatments. But obviously, this won't help you out on a new color.

On color, get what you want. Granted, colors like silver are always popular, and certainly picking a real oddball color should be done carefully if you think you are going to sell in a few years, but in general, I say, "Buy for yourself, not the next owner."

A bigger consideration in color is upkeep. Darker colors are much harder to keep clean, harder to hide swirls, fade quicker (especially if the car is left out in the sun), and make the car hot inside. Red is particularly susceptible to fading - something to do with the red absorbing the wavelengths that cause fading. Unless you like washing your car often, I'd go for a lighter color, especially if you live in a hot/sunny climate. If you're considering the white wheels, you're really looking at a labor of love there.

miniusa.com is the place to go to see how the options are bundled, although they may not have 2005 info up yet. In general, you can order nearly everything ala carte rather than in bundles, although the bundles are cheaper.

Fuzzy dice? If you're serious, just about any auto parts store can help you out there.

Good luck waiting. It isn't any fun.

- Mark

wilkens11 · June 2004

Greyscale, congrats on your order! There is a very informative blog at motoringfile.com, which has several photos of a car with black-eye purple (purple haze in US). It is darker and richer than indie blue.

Yeah, the miniusa.com 2004 configurator shows the auto-dimming rear-view mirror comes with rain-sensing wipers, for $150.

For 2005, there's a new package (ZCV), which includes: 319 Universal Garage Door Opener (also currently available as an individual option), 431 Auto Dimming rear view mirror, and 521 Rain Sensor and Auto Headlights. I don't have prices for 2005 stuff yet.

You'll find a dealer bulletin on 2005 changes at motoringfile.com.

More on colors: for 2005 there are two other new blues: hyper blue, and cool blue. You might want to take a look at those too; pictures of both are at motoringfile.com.

When I'm considering colors I try to get high contrast, good exterior/interior combination, and try to maximize the number of colors. For example, I like the warm biege cordoba interior (silver trim), with red or blue exterior. With a blue exterior, a white top, the red and orange taillights, and biege, silver and black inside, the car becomes quite colorful and interesting. I think the silver and biege work really well together inside, a little bit like a Ferrari. And, the biege and black seats look great (see Edmund's review for a good look--it doesn't look right at all in the configurator). It's fun just finding all the good combinations! (Yes, I'll get help soon...)

wilkens11 · June 2004

Greyscale, I forgot to make clear that all 2004 options and colors that are not explicitly removed are still available for 2005 cars. This means both packages I mentioned are expected to be available.

wilkens11 · June 2004

Hi Jaatbeni, production for the 2005 MY starts in July (July 2004). There are some phase-ins, but most of the changes happen immediately. So you might as well go order now (or soon, I guess, depending where you are; there are waiting lists here in CA).

wilkens11 · June 2004

I looked at this, BMW's DSC seems to be a refinement of ASC (automatic stability control). These two are the same except that DSC takes steering wheel input into account, and tries to keep the car going where you intend.

Both systems control throttle and apply brakes to regain traction. DSC additionally works to keep the car on track. In a Mini this means countermanding your right foot in snow or rain, thereby preventing understeer.

DSC is good for BMWs, which can spin out if the driver is careless.

BTW, I don't like any of the packages either, but many individual options look good. You sure you don't want the Chrono option, which gives oil pressure/temp? And the universal garage door opener? 3-spoke steering wheel? There's a 2005 options list floating around somewhere.

wilkens11 · June 2004

Hi Micweb, I'm glad to hear about your good experience at East Bay. They're my first choice too, once I take the plunge. You mentioned you got Pepper white; my understanding is that P white and indie blue go away for 2005, but I'm a little confused about the exact schedule. Did your sales rep mention anything about this?

Would you like to say a little about how the ordering process has gone so far? I mean deposits and when to expect a production number, that kind of stuff...

Congrats on your order!

micweb · June 2004

...and I go my order number.

Ordering is easy. $1,000 refundable deposit, a check is fine (and they'll hold it for a week if you need to move funds around, as I did), you get a one page spec sheet and receipt for your check.

A month later I got a call saying their allotment was increased so my car was ready to confirm earlier than expected.

I gave them the update last week (they had package and option numbers) and it will actually go into production in a month.

wilkens11 · June 2004

Cool, you got moved up! Sounds like the impulse buyers are getting weeded out of the line. :-)

Thanks for the info on the process, sounds painless.

-Mike

micweb · June 2004

...since pricing is pretty "transparent" for MINI's, the only issue is valuing your trade-in. Unless you are trading in a MINI or BMW, I don't think most MINI dealers will be holding your trade in for resale, they will be selling it to another dealer.

I'll let you know how the trade in aspect works out for me. The only silver lining in this cloud is the fact that East Bay MINI is part of the large Hendrick's group and can probably move my tradein to one of their other lots.

dancehaus · June 2004

I'm buying a MINI. I've test driven the S, and I love it. But, I just came across a bit of info on the Edmunds.com site that says MINI needs Super/Premium Unleaded. Is that for real? I'll be using it for commuting 50 miles round trip every day, and if I have to pay that much more.... I dunno. One of the perks to getting a MINI was the fuel economy, for me, and premium gas would cancel out that factor.
What say you fans and gurus?

markjenn · June 2004

Premium is recommended. It has knock sensors so I would expect you could run regular and it would detune to avoid engine damage, but what's the point of spending extra on a higher-performance car so you can feed it gas that turns it into a lower-performance car?

And the MCS is not a very good gas mileage car. It does very poorly for its size and many owners (myself included) are not even getting the 24 mpg city figure ... more like 21-23. I'd recommend you look at the Mazda 3 which returns much better mileage on regular gas.

- Mark

crunch · June 2004

If you want to run regular gas, look somewhere else. The S is supercharged and MUST have the proper octane or it will burn the pistons and the warranty WILL NOT cover the damage. At that point, premium gas looks real cheap. They can tell if you have been using the proper grade gas so don't fool yourself into thinking you can get away with 87 octane when 91 is required. IMHO, the Cooper S is not and was not intended to be an economy car.
BTW, the difference between 87 and 93 octane prices in my area adds up to about $2 per week more for me.

wilkens11 · June 2004

I don't plan to trade in, so that's one variable gone. Just need to find the time to go test drive.

I'll be eager to hear how things go for you!

By the way, it looks like 2005 base prices are reported to be the same as last year.

micweb · June 2004

...most excellent, I was expecting a 3% increase (the big bump is usually at new year from what I heard).

dancehaus · June 2004

I test drove the MCS first, and now I've driven the MC. I spoke to the salesgirl and she said that mid-grade or Plus would be fine for the MC. I would agree that the S is not an economy car.
BTW, John Roberts MINI in Dallas are stiff-necked boobs.

crunch · June 2004

It might be OK to use mid grade in the MC but you may loose a bit of power. The folks on the MINI owner's forums at MINI USA swear that using anything less than 91 octane isn't worth the savings.
About JR MINI, The day that I took delivery of my MCS I was told that they were becoming an AutoNation dealer. It's possible that they have changed a bunch under the new owner's rules. I haven't had a reason to return so I wouldn't have noticed. Sorry you weren't treated well.

markjenn · June 2004

For heaven's sake, follow the guidance in the owner's manual, not a salesgirl.

In general, sales staff are one of the worst sources of technical information. Everything they say is tainted by their desire to make a sale - if they preceive that a customer is sensitive to the requirement for premium fuel, nine times out of ten, they'll say it is Okay to use other fuels regardless of whether they have any information to that affect - anything to move the sale along.

- Mark

sparkr · June 2004

I'm considering a Mini for me to drive for a couple of years and then hand down to a daughter. Of course the daughter is all for the idea, and I am so tempted. What I want is reassurance that the Mini is even a little bit practical for mom-style around town driving and transportation. We will still have a minivan and a Honda Accord when we need more room.

Are the back seats in a Mini acceptable for a kid or two; can it hold several grocery bags or a pile of drycleaning? I am sick of driving a mom-mobile and would **love** something small and zippy, but I do need at least a marginal amount of practicality. And if it comes in hunter green with white bonnet stripes, so much the better!

307web · June 2004

You should test drive one to see if you can handle the super-hard ride without spinal damage.
Of course there is enough room in the back seat for small children or a few grocery bags.

MINI Cooper

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