MINI Cooper

smchale · October 2001

Note that you need an online subscription to view this article. I can email the article to whoever is interested.

http://interactive.wsj.com/articles/SB1003271217205686720.htm

The article goes on to say that 14,000 MINIs are allocated to the USA for 2002 - does not seem like much.

Also, it mentions that demand is hot and a BMW dealer believes he can get $5k over sticker.

silver_bullet · October 2001

Yes, supply and demand will lead some dealers to gouge customers, but I hope BMW/MINI dealers have enough sense to refrain from this practice. I, for one, will not pay over MSRP for ANY car - I don't care how high the demand is. Before I commit myself by placing an official order later this year, my dealer is going to have to guarantee a sales price... or no deal.

mdmetz · October 2001

A two-part look at the Cooper S and its specs is now at http://www.mini2.com, dated 10/17 (or one week earlier than the opening of the Tokyo show). Part 1 is at http://www.mini2.com/news/news.php?id=86 and Part 2 is at http://www.mini2.com/news/news.php?id=87.

pablo_l · October 2001

Good God, I love the Cooper S. I own a Jaguar XJR, and yet a car like the Cooper S, with innovative design and good old fun car values gets my juices flwoing more... maybe it's either (a) the fact I've only lived in the US for 4 years, and car values from here are not quite engrained yet (b) a testament to the Mini's great design (c) me being crazy.

silver_bullet · October 2001

Both the Cooper and Cooper S are going to be very cool cars, each with a slightly different mission and appeal. I'm betting this car will be everything the Focus ZX3 should have been, but isn't... at least the version we got here in the U.S. Can't wait to get more information about ordering!

Pablo, a MINI would look great parked next to your Jag

rickrover · October 2001

It was bad enough having to see the Cooper in pictures only - now that the Cooper S is starting to appear on the scene - it's more that I can stand. That two tone blue/ black leather interior is so nice. Now It's a solid silver exterior with the blue/ black two tone leather interor in my Cooper S with 17's.

revka · October 2001

"We bet the Mini Cooper will be the hot car for 2002, and the Cooper S will be the trim best suited for American driving styles." From the 2001 Toyko Motor Show, here's Edmunds' coverage of the 2002 Mini Cooper S. Let us know what you think? ;-)

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rickrover · October 2001

The Electric Blue is nice, but not with the white top, mirrors and wheels, I may go with that and silver 17" wheels and the blue and black leather interior combo instead of a Pure Silver exterior. I still like the silver, I have an Arctic Silver X5 now and don't think I want two silver vehicles. Maybe even the yellow - who knows. In any case I won't be going with a different color top/ mirrors or white wheels, that's for sure.

My local news paper ran an article on the Cooper S yesterday and quoted a west coast dealer that said they expect to get $5k above retail for the Mini. The hype is starting already, my dealer will sell me mine at MSRP.

mroland · November 2001

I wazs just thinking about this last night. I got this neat little brochure from "MINI" that I guess I signed up for back at the New York auto show.
I have a Focus ZX5 on order, and loved driving the ZX3. I was thinking, should I have waited? But no, I really want a four door car. The Mini I think starts at $18000, which is more than you can get a Focus ZX3 for.(except the SVT). The Focus is 2.5 feet longer than than the Mini. This should contribute to considerably more cargo and rear passenger room. If you have to carry anything, I don't imagine the Mini as being a good choice, whereas the Focus might not have the heritage styling, or small reflexes, it has admirable handling, with room for more than one or two people, and some cargo. (I work with books, so cargo room is important to me)

The Mini is adorable. I would choose British Racing Green with white roof.

Marc

silver_bullet · November 2001

Marc, that was going to be my color choice too... until I found out that non-MINI franchised BMW dealers WILL NOT be able to service MINIs, nor will they have parts. I live in TX, where there are no dealers planned due to an ongoing litigation between the dealers and BMW, so I decided to cancel my place on a waiting list with an out of state dealer... won't be able to get the thing fixed under warranty!

qbrozen · November 2001

That sucks! That is a huge oversight on BMWs part. I mean, c'mon! Only 50 dealers! Do they really expect everyone who wants a Mini to drive to one of only 50 places to get their car fixed?? That is ridiculous!

silver_bullet · November 2001

There are currently 70 MINI dealers appointed for the entire U.S. BMW figures most MINI buyers will be in larger metropolitan areas, and supply will limit how many cars are sold. The nonsense in Texas is a fluke, but it will likely guarantee that MINIs will be scarce here. Unless BMW changes their tune, think hard before buying a MINI if there's no dealer within easy driving distance.

qbrozen · November 2001

like you said, who's counting?

It still doesn't change the fact that it would be a helluva drive for many people. And let's hope there is no recall! The waiting time for an appointment would be horrendous.

carman30 · November 2001

Has anyone recently signed up at a BMW/ MINI facility to get on the waiting list? How long are they saying the lists are, and when could you get one?

Any info would be great!

rickrover · November 2001

The Mini facility that's being put in place in my area (Orlando) has no service facility. Mini's will be serviced at the BMW dealer nearby, actually my dealer has 2 service facilities one is attached to the showroom and the other is a stand alone service facility on the other side of town - very convenient. It would be nice if you could get the Mini serviced at any BMW dealer. I'm going to ask the miniusa website about dealer service and if any BMW dealer will service them. I'll let everyone know what the answer is.

As far as I know each Mini dealer manages their waiting lists under their own terms. My dealer cut the waiting list off at 20 over 6 months ago - I'm 17 on the list. I had let my sales person know over a year ago that I wanted on the Mini list as soon as they started it. The list was a day and a half old when they stopped it at 20. They may have started the waiting list up again, I haven't checked in lately. I had to put down a $1,000 fully refundable deposit when I signed up.

I'm not absolutely sure at this point I'm going to keep my Mini Cooper S. My dealer will sell me my Cooper at MSRP, if I can easily sell it for $5k+ over what I paid for it, It's sold. Then I'll get back on the list for another one I may keep. This Mini will be replacing my 911 SC that I used mostly as a weekend track/ autocross car, I may end up with a used M3 or believe it or not a Mercedes C230k coupe. That little Mercedes is a heck of a car, kind of ugly but a blast to drive and an excellent value if you keep the options down. If there is strong aftermarket support for the Mercedes it'll be a major consideration for me.

mroland · November 2001

I live in the Philadelphia area, and there will be 3 dealers listed near me. Two in Chester county "Main Line area", and one in Princeton NJ. These are all about 30-50 minutes from my house. I wonder, are they Mini exclusives, or BMW with franchise rights? I mean, if they are Mini only dealers, they can't expect to remain profitable with only one car line. Saturn had to grow.
I drive by a BMW dealer on my way to work - I wonder if they will be selling them eventually. I have my car order in, for something else, but I can't wait to test drive one of these every place I can!

Marc

phaedrys · November 2001

I live in the same area, and I have the same issues. I know that the BMW dealer near where I work (by 70 and 73 in South Jersey), will not carry the Mini. I'm not sure about the service yet though. I have a friend that is a mechanic there, but I never would have thought that getting service done by any BMW dealer would be a problem. I was seriously considering the car...but if I have to go Princeton or out to Chester for warranty work...that's just ridiculous.

carman30 · November 2001

Hey Rick,

Thanks for the Info. I just bought a Jetta 1.8T Wolfsburg, so I am not hurting for fun transportation.

I may wait a while until all if the initial "fuss" dies down as it did with the Beetle/ PT. I love the Cooper S, and would take a Cooper. There is NO WAY I will pay more than sticker...the market will bring the price to sticker eventually.

I agree, service is a big option. My dealer is on the OTHER side of Detroit, so I would have to travel through the city just for service! YUK

rickrover · November 2001

Hi, I'm with the MINI team in the United States.

Sorry, I am unable to comment at this time on servicing the MINI passenger cars.
I hope youll continue to stay in touch with www.miniusa.com for the latest
news.

Thanks for writing in!

LET'S MOTOR

Not a lot of info - It will be a problem if I can't get the Mini serviced at any BMW dealer.

silver_bullet · November 2001

I've talked to a few folks at MINI dealers who've raised this issue with higher ups. Right now, it appears likely that only MINI franchised BMW dealers will have the ability to offer warranty service or parts for MINI cars. Since there are no MINI dealers in my state (TX), I've cancelled my order with an out of state MINI dealer pending the naming of a local dealership. I think it is unrealistic to expect a new design to be problem-free, and I don't want to have to drive hundreds of miles just to have some minor warranty glitches fixed. Oh well...

pablo_l · November 2001

That is probably why they are introducing the MINI so late her ein the US - thay want to iron out whatever issues in denser Europe first, that way the inconvenvience factor in the US, with fewer dealerships and longer drives, can be kept down.

rickrover · November 2001

I agree with Silver Bullet, it will be a pain if the car can only be serviced at one of 70 dealerships nationwide. I live close to my Mini dealer, but what would happen if I took a road trip and had a problem far from a Mini dealer? What an inconvenience that would be.

silver_bullet · November 2001

If the "MINI dealer only" service rule turns out to be true, maybe they should change the ad slogan to "Let's Motor... But Not Too Far"

tombaskin · November 2001

I live in boise ID and the nearest dealer is in Murray Utah, some 300 miles distant. Its a cinch that I'm not going to buy a Mini if the nearest service is 300 miles away. I talked to the Murray dealer about this and he told me that it should not be too much of an inconvenience to me since the scheduled maintainance for the Mini is pretty infrequent. I bit my tongue. Next, I contacted Mini via the official site to inquire whether my local BMW dealer would be able to service the Mini. I got a response identical to one set forth a few posts above. I composed a somewhat more forceful query, reiterating my interest in getting an answer to my question, but was again told that Mini USA could not comment at this time on service. Someone at Mini should recognize that this is a big deal, and that they are only alienating potential customers by being so coy on this important issue. If the truth of the matter is that only designated dealers can provide warranty service, then so be it. I would just like to know what the lay of the land is so I can make an informed decision concerning purchase.

tom baskin

silver_bullet · November 2001

What I've heard ranges from "wait and see" to "no service or parts from BMW dealers" -- I have yet to hear anything indicating the possibility of MINI service from a Bimmer store. If you are like me (i.e., far from a dealer), you'll wait until they get this issue ironed out.

qbrozen · November 2001

the reason for no answer is because its the answer you don't want to hear. If they come right out and say that you can only get service at a Mini dealer, then they have cut off their own leg and pushed away many buyers. So, I'm thinking that they don't want to give a definite answer in the hopes that some people will buy them without asking or thinking about it. Those people will be screwed, but at least BMW sold their car.

Yeah, I know, this is a poor view on the company, but I don't trust any corporation, so there ya go.

rickrover · November 2001

BMW is going to lose some sales if they don't get this figured out. I can see why a BMW dealer that got passed over for a Mini Franchise wouldn't be too interested in servicing a Mini. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I'll give the manager of my BMW dealer a call and ask him what's going on - I should be able to get a straight answer from him.

I'm still on the list for a Mini Cooper S - but got the itch for a new autocross car. I narrowed it down to a base Mercedes C230k and the GTI 1.8t - I just leased a 2002 GTI 1.8t with luxury package and 17" wheels in Reflex silver. VW has killer incentives on the GTI right now, could not pass up the deal I got. I even had them throw in the VW Eibach sport springs to tighten up the suspension.

kkcymru · November 2001

BMW is only planning on selling 20,000 Minis per year - 10,000 the first partial year - to start. They are also requiring dealers to have separate Mini-only showroom with Mini-only sales staff. Now if you're only selling 20,000 cars per year, and you want showrooms to be supported by sales of Minis only, you have to severely restrict the number of showrooms. Similarly, if you want to have a critical mass of knowledgeable mechanics on th Mini, you're going to have to restrict the number of BMW dealers who do warranty work (except for emergencies).

Realizing this BMW has limited the number of dealers. I'm sure they realize this is going to cost them sales in underserved (or unserved) areas, but with such a small number of cars to sell, this probably won't be a problem. From earlier posters, it seems that dealers think they will be able to sell all they can get, maybe even at a hefty premium to MSRP. Whether or not this will be the case, I think BMW is doing the right thing.

First it has to establish a Mini reputation in the US. This includes sales and service as well as quality of product. (The initial problem might be avoiding a reputation for price gouging - though Honda dealers survived the reputation they developed in the early eighties for price gouging, without much long term damage.) Then it can start expanding geographically and in number of sales.

It might mean some people that really would like a Mini have to settle for something else initially - and there are other good choices for small, fun-to-drive, cars out there right now. When Mni eventually does get to these people - assuming success in establishing the brand name - they'll probably have more choices [I'd like to see a Cooper S Estate] and won't be paying the new model mania premium.

revka · November 2001

from the Hatchbacks board over to the Coupes, Convertibles, and Sports Cars board. That means it will reside on both message boards. Hope you enjoy discussing this subject with participants from both of these boards. Happy Motoring!

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mcostello · November 2001

Does anyone know whether the Mini will have old style (traditional welded) rain gutters, no gutters, or something else?

Thanks!

qbrozen · November 2001

That is not the point. Limiting the dealers who sell is one thing, but limiting where you can go for warranty work is another. A great deal of warranty work is something that any mechanic can do. That mechanic does not have to have any kind of special knowledge of the Mini. Rattles, loose moulding, etc, can be taken care of by a BMW mechanic just as well as a Mini mechanic. Of course, so can many major things. An engine is an engine. A transmission is a transmission. A 12-volt electrical system is .... you get the point. I've managed to work on every single one of the cars I have owned with no special training other than my experience with cars and trucks in general.

Are there certain things that could arise that would require the mechanic to know Minis specifically in order to diagnose and fix it properly? I'm sure there are, but those would be the rare cases that could then be dealt with by a Mini dealer if need be. But there is NO reason why BMW should restrict ALL warranty work to dealers who actually sell the minis. Yet, they plan on doing just that. THAT is where the problem is.

mdmetz · November 2001

Wasn't the Mini designed to be compatible with existing BMW diagnostic equipment? That's something I've seen mentioned in several sources, and thus I'd think that any BMW dealer would be capable of managing warranty work, if perhaps not as quickly as a dealer whose mechanics are familiar with them and whose stock of parts (sorry, Sir Alec) spares includes items for the Mini.

silver_bullet · November 2001

It is supposedly more of a legal/financial issue rather than a technical issue. MINI dealers are being asked to make a substantial financial comittment (separate showroom, sales staff, service staff, etc.) in order to sell MINI, so they want to know they'll have the "lock" on parts and service. The BMW E46 electrical harness is supposedly nearly identical to the MINI harness, so you'd think diagnostic work would be a snap, but so far, I've been told Bimmer service departments will not perform MINI service.

rickrover · November 2001

I finally talked to the general manager of my BMW dealer and he confirms that BMW dealers will not perform service on the Mini.

After considering my options and the primary purpose of this vehicle for me - which is a weekend autocrosser/ track car/ occaisonal commuter car - I've decided to go with a 2002 VW GTI 1.8t with 180 hp. I picked up my reflex silver/ black cloth GTI with luxury package (sunroof, monsoon sound) and 17" wheel package 4 days ago. I put a lot of thought into this purchase, major factors for me were the ease and cost to upgrade the GTI, initial cost (got a killer deal) and warranty. VW's have an amazing level of support in the aftermarket. I had the dealer throw in the Eibach sport springs to firm up the suspension and ordered a few goodies from Neuspeed to further enhance the handling and take the 180 hp 1.8t to 220 hp with a few simple and inexpensive engine upgrades. I have a serious weak spot for VW's and BMW's, we also have a 2001 X5 3.0 that is fantastic.
The only other vehicle that I seriously considered was a stripped Mercedes C230k but initial cost and the price of upgrades took it out of the running. I'll have a little under $22k in the GTI when I'm done with the upgrades, the C230k would have been nearer $30k after upgrades.
One last thing I liked about the GTI is the incredable quality of the fit and finish (easily up to BMW standards) and all the room it has, very roomy for a little hatchback.

revka · November 2001

You'll now find a direct link to Edmunds' new Mini Cooper S video clip, in the Additional Resources box, on the left side of the page. Happy motoring!

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qbrozen · November 2001

really not too much on the S in particular. Didn't even see any shots of the S in that video, as a matter of fact.

I just want to hear it and see it in motion finally.

kkcymru · November 2001

I agree that the local BMW dealer could probably do 90% of the warranty work- for that matter, the local Sears Auto center could probably do 75%. It's the other 10% that's going to ruin their reputation. I think you underestimate the extent the expense of running a factory authorized service center. There's expensive training of the mechanics. Manuals and service bulletins have to be kept up to date. Parts have to be stocked. These things only make sense if you have enough business to pay for it. Even if a BMW dealer felt it was worth the investment, he would be helping to pull the rug out from under the Mini dealer - you don't think dealerships survive on their sales profits, do you.

From the customer's point of view, will customers go for the idea of taking their car to the BMW dealer, leaving it for a day only to be told they have to take it to the Mini dealer after the problem is diagnosed. Will they like being told they'll have to wait two days for a part that any medium volume dealer would keep in stock?

Most importantly to me is knowing the mechanic is used to working on cars like mine, and works with others who have worked on cars like mine, and that I get the benefit of their collective experience, including their mistakes. I've had experience with hard to diagnose problem being solved after several visits because the problem is passed on to a mechanic whose seen it before on my model. I've also had dealers make a mess of my car while working on trim problems because they didn't follow correct procedures. (I know this one doesn't sound like an argument for trained dealers, but I have to believe this would happen more often if they didn't even know the procedures.)

I still think Mini/BMW is doing the right thing for their long term reputation and profits.

qbrozen · November 2001

OH, I don't underestimate anything. I fully understand and know what you are talking about. But, its really not going to make a difference to the buyer. One of 2 things will happen. Either a potential buyer is going to pass on the car because they can't conveniently have it serviced or they will buy the car and never make the trip back to that dealer unless something covered under warranty and very expensive happens to the car. Either way, that Mini dealer is losing out on business. If any BMW dealer would be allowed to do a limited amount of warranty work, then at least that would be helping out the dealer network in general. I don't think it would be stealing work away from the specialized Mini dealer because Joe Schmoe isn't going to drive his car 100 miles to have a blown fuse replaced anyway. That's how I see it.

rickrover · November 2001

Since Mini dealers are limited to large urban areas, BMW must think the Mini target market will use the it for an urban commuter and not stray far from the dealer.

jwilberding · December 2001

I will be vacationing in London and Manchester in January. My name is on a long waiting list here in US. I would like to drive one if possible. It will help me decide how hard I want to pursue have some fun along the way.

Any help would be great!

sheridan54 · December 2001

you gotta be kidding! i live in houston, and the closest dealership is in new orleans. now, i don't mind driving to the big easy to pick up a car and have some fun in the french quarter, but returning for service is a different issue. i can't believe the 4th largest city in the u.s. won't have minis!

moparbad · December 2001

Well, everything has to be big,Big, BIG in TX and the Mini must be TOO small. As more Minis are available there will be more dealerships in the future.

silver_bullet · December 2001

I live in Houston as well, and I cancelled my order with a Memphis dealer after learning that local BMW dealers will not service MINIs or sell parts. There are no dealers planned for TX because of an ongoing lawsuit over the franchise agreement - BMW dealers here have challenged BMW's right to require separate sales and service facilities, and BMW won't back down.

perry40 · December 2001

Well, yesterday I was doing some Christmas shopping at a local Walmart and went by the toy section to browse the 1/18th scale die-cast cars (I have a small collection ... mostly VW/Porsche stuff) ... and happened to see a green 2002 Mini Cooper and being a fan of small hatchbacks generally, I took a closer look. It was love at first sight! Yeah, I've seen photos of the new Cooper on the Net, but to actually see the form of this beautiful little car in three dimensions ... absolutely stunning ... I can only imagine what the full-size car must look like! Needless to say, the little green "mini" Mini is now sitting on my bookshelf (next to a silver PT Cruiser). No word around here (Eastern Canada) if any dealerships will be selling the Mini in the New Year ... besides, I'm only 1 year into a 4 year lease on a Hyundai Accent and the Mini would probably be outside of my budget ... too bad ...

tommyp13 · December 2001

I just got my new Grassroot Motorsports yesterday. There's a front-page article on the new mini, comparing it to the old one. I haven't read it yet, but thought I'd let you people know.
Rick - I think that you made a good choice. I've had my c230 since Sept. (couldn't wait on a Mini - crx has too much rust already), and while I love it, I don't think that it would make a good weekend autocross car. Too much heft to be tossable. And you're right after the aftermarket - I'd need a second loan for the pulley kits that are offered.

Is BMW still saying March delivery for both the base and S versions? That was another reason for why I pulled my deposit - just didn't trust that date for delivery.

rickrover · December 2001

I stopped by my BMW dealer the other day and talked to the guy that's going to be a Mini specialist. They expect to open the Mini dealer in March and expect the S to be available shortly after. He said we may not be able to order the Mini the way we want - BMW may send the dealers fully optioned cars - especially the S. He said since I'm so low on the list (17) I should get my S a couple of months after they open. He said I'll be able to take my pick of all the S Mini's that hit the dealership when my name comes up. They may mark them up by 10% above MSRP since they have a waiting list for their whole first year allocation. I've been assured by the GM of this dealership that they'll sell me my Mini at MSRP since I'm customer of theirs and I'm in the first 20 list. I put a $1K deposit almost a year ago, they are not asking for deposits anymore. I plan to sell my Mini S at a good profit as soon as I get it, I think that $1k may turn into $5k to $10k if Mini Mania hits the U.S. the way I think it will.

qbrozen · December 2001

you're buying it to sell it? Was that your intent all along?

perry40 · December 2001

While it surely is your perogitive to buy a Mini and sell it right away for profit ... it just breaks my heart that you'd do that ... I would just die to own a New Mini, but I'll probably never be able to justify the cost, especially with dealer (and re-sellers) marking them up ... just like what happened to the New Beetles when they first came out ...

nyccarguy · December 2001

I know the mini is going to be a great car, but if you can keep your pants on and wait a year or so until Mini-Mania dies down. The markups won't last forever. Take a look at cars that have been "marked up" for limited availability in the last few years.

Prowler (Big Joke)
PT Cruiser (I've heard ads on the radio touting increased production)
New Beetle (Although MSRP + will be expected for the convertible)
C5 Corvette (MSRP + $10,000 when they first came out)
Honda S2000 (MSRP + $7 0r $8,000 and now they're going for under sticker)
Audi TT (Can be had for under Sticker now)
ML 320 (Going for MSRP + $10- $15,000, now the dealers can't give them away)

rickrover · December 2001

Perry - I understand where you're comming from - I've been there. I'm a total car nut, I have serious weaknesses for BMW's VW's, Land Rovers and Porsches. My current cars are 2000 M Coupe, 2001 X5 3.0, 2002 GTI 1.8t modified for autocross. I know I will eventually replace the GTI with a Mini Cooper S - when all the hoopla dies down, and as nycarguy so eloquantly points out, it will die down. I've made a profit on the sale of the current "hot" vehicle more than once, it subsidizes my car addiction, I hope to make $10k+ on the sale of one of the first Mini Cooper S' to hit the U.S.. I've been on the waiting list for over a year now. I'm already on the list for my second one.
I jumped on the list for the ML (#3) New Beetle (twice) M5 (twice) 2001 M3 coupe (#9) 2001 M3 convertable and 2002 M3 SMG. I use two different BMW dealers in different states.

I find it entertaining to make a few bucks on the next hot thing. You have to develop a solid relationship with a local dealer to be able to do this. Some let you sell your place in line, others make you buy the car to resell it.

I'm looking forward to driving the Mini S for a couple of days before I give it up to a loving home.

I don't always go on a waiting list with the intention of making a profit, it just turns out that the vehicles I've jumped on a waiting list for turned out to be hot, so I sell them (or my place in line) for a profit. I was planning to keep the Mini until it became obvious it was going to be hot. Instead of waiting to own one I went out and bought the GTI and plan to unload the first (and maybe second) Mini Cooper S.

MINI Cooper

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