Mazda Protege5

meinrad · June 2002

We hashed this out a while back, the demographics of P5 drivers. But I still find it funny. I was the 2nd in my town to have a P5. Now there are 6.
3 are driven by 30 something males and 3 are driven by 18 year old males. Interesting to me the different purposes the car serves, transporting family and transporting friends. I would have loved to have this car in high school and college.

amonte · June 2002

I test drove a Jetta a while back (way before I was in the market to buy - just for kicks) and in it's standard form, I thought it was ok (from a driving standpoint). The one area that the Jetta (and all VW's) seem to excel at is "durability" - I've had a lot of friends get them and every time they bring them over, I am amazed with how "tight" everything is in the car. When you close the door, there is one solid "thunk" instead of a series minor rattles following the thunk.

The problem with the Jetta (and the Subaru's) is the price. When you start adding options, the Jetta can climb far North of 20K.

Just out of curiosity, how do these P5's hold up after a few months? I've read a few posts on rattles and noises - is this the norm?

bluong1 · June 2002

Rattle and noise: mine will be one year old in 10 days (yeah), 17kmiles, everything still holds tight, rattle free, runs better than ever.

Bruno

mazdafun · June 2002

That's why they don't put enough sound insulation to keep the engine noise out. They meant for you to hear it.

Read through the interveiws section in the Mazda6 sub-site on Mazdausa.com. They intentionally let in engine and exhaust noise, thinking they're feedback from the car to the driver. They try to minimize wind and road noise.

I personally like hearing my engine (in my sedan) and exhaust when I'm revving it up.

the_big_h · June 2002

who needs the stereo when you can listen to the sweet melody of the Protege engine as you floor the gas pedal and the tach shoots toward 6500??

well, at least for my 1.8L, the engine sounds great, not sure about the 2.0L

protege_fan · June 2002

I assure you the sound of the 2.0L is sweet as well. I'm not sure why people think it sounds so bad. I think the engine sounds fine as it travels to red line.

reitrof · June 2002

I agree with Protege_Fan. I have revved to the redline, actually cut out on me when the rev limiter kicked, sounded fine to me.

Can hardly wait to get my new exhaust on.

bluong1 · June 2002

don't you think its power (96kW) is overkill for a stereo? ;-)

Bruno

audia8q · June 2002

Don't give out bad information, when your not informed.

Mazda changed the S-plan pricing structure and it is no longer $200-300 behind invoice. S-plan numbers ( vehicles invoiced after 2/18/02)
are in the $50 behind invoice area.

Rich

maltb · June 2002

I think he was speaking from his experience when the S-plan was a better deal for the consumer.

vocus · June 2002

Thank you Malt. I did not know the information changed, Rich. I bought my 2001 Protege back in February 2001. If the structure changed since then, why would I have any idea? Geez.

jstandefer · June 2002

I think the only people complaining about the 2.0l engine noise are the people who have the 1.8L (like me). If you heard the difference, you would know why we dislike the 2.0L's noise. But, if you haven't heard the 1.8L, the 2.0L sounds terrific.

-Jerry

BTW... EEEEEEKKKKKKK!!!!! I think I got lost for ten minutes trying to find this board with this new set-up.

vocus · June 2002

I think it sucks already. My opinion though.

bluong1 · June 2002

I'm trying to calculate the engine rpm at certain cruising speed for the P5. I though I have enough input: wheel size and gear ratio. I somehow come up with number which is lower than my observation. For instant theorically it should be 3500 rpm at 80mph, but I read 3700rpm. Here is an example of the calculation:

- wheel radius r=16/2+195*50/100/25.4=11.8386 in = 0.3007 m
- wheel circumference c= 2*pi*r=1.8894 m
- at 80mph, the wheel revolution is w=80*1600/60/c=1129.1 rpm
- Gear ratio (5th)=g=3.099
- Engine rpm=w*g=3500 rpm.

It's about 5.5% too low. Where is the discrepency? Any idea?

mudflat · June 2002

My odometer readings don't match highway markers. I first noticed this on a long trip. They're low, but I haven't calculated the percentage. It may be a factory calibration oversight related to differences in tire sizes between models.

bpi · June 2002

It looks like it comes from using the diameter of the tire as is to calculate distance traveled per revolution (or # of revolutions per mile).

Go to a tire site like TireRack and check the spec on the tires. For example, the Dunlop SP Sport 5000 (not sure if this is the exact tire on the Pro5) in 195/50-16 has a diameter of 23.7" (matches your calculation) and 886 revolutions per mile (does not match your calculation). Using a diameter of 23.7", 886 revolutions would cover 1.04 miles. When supporting the weight of a car, the tires are not "exactly" round.

amonte · June 2002

Sorry, I know I am probably beating a dead horse here, but I just don't get how this S-Plan pricing works - I just walk into a dealership, ask for S-Plan pricing and they give it to me? Can they combine it with the 2.9% financing? I think I might have missed a message or something - if so I apologize.

amonte · June 2002

Other then the S-Plan option, what have people paid for their P5's? Every dealer I went to offered me invoice for the ones on the lot, but nobody had one that was too close. I couldn't get the one who found it to do any better then 300 over invoice. This didn't seem great, but it wasn't terrible either. It's not a closed deal yet (I did leave a deposit but it is refundable and the order is canceled if they cannot make delivery on time, or if I find the vehicle unacceptable). Am I getting hosed?

meinrad · June 2002

How can you be getting hosed at $300 over invoice? Edmunds TMV is $500 over so some pay more some pay less, but $300 over invoice is far from being hosed.

rlenihan · June 2002

I guess it's a matter of taste. I heard one reviewer refer to the engine noise as "throaty." To me, it's more nasal. I guess I'm not used to hearing a high-pitched whine when I send it up to redline. I could put up with noise on acceleration (you can alway modulate that by driving more conservatively, if that's your pleasure) but I can't picture spending a few hours traveling the interstate with the constant noise it makes at 70 mph (which, I seem to recall had the engine tach'ing about 3200 rpm). On longer trips I prefer to put on the cruise control and enjoy the scenery. Somebody suggested turning up the stereo to drown out the noise, but I don't think the Mazda stereo plays loud enough to do that.

audia8q · June 2002

I didnt mean to jump on the guy, nothing personal and I'm glad he loves his new Mazda!!!...but the car business is hard enough with the internet spreading false and fictional information....and to have uninformed posters on edmunds enhancing the wrong information makes the car buying process bad for everyone!!!

Now that i'm off my soap box.....I just hope people refrain from posting things they "might" know about and leave that to the people who actually have the facts.

maltb · June 2002

About 1/4 of the mail you get from Mazda could be questioned as factual...lol.

bluong1 · June 2002

with all due respect:

First: I read vocus's post, and he clearly said that what he profited from the S-plan at the time when he purchased the car, so I don't think it's a wrong information (unless if the readers extrapolate his reading, but then who can blame vocus?)

Second: If Mazda changed the policy, why don't they recall it by another name? Keeping the same name creates the confusion for everyone.

Third: it may have some wrong informations now and then posted on the Edmunds, but I though overall Edmunds enhances the car sale greatly, and that's how it survives so well.

And Fourth: we are all impatient to read from those who are informed. The last question on this board about the S-plan is still answered.

Respectfully,

Bruno

bluong1 · June 2002

"Using a diameter of 23.7", 886 revolutions would cover 1.04 miles."

That's absolutely correct! But 1.04 is 4% of discrepancy of 1.00! Also, even when the tires are not a round under the weight of the car, the circumference should remain the same. May be pi is not 3.1415926536...? Never mind!

Bruno

jstandefer · June 2002

Using Tirerack.com's spec for 886 revolutions per mile...

80mph = 1.3333333 miles/minute (80 miles / 60 min)
(886 revs/mile) * (1.333333 miles/min) = 1181.333 revs/min
(1181.333 rev/min) * (3.099 gear ratio) = 3661 rpm

Closer... I can't explain why it's 886 revs per mile. Using the standard calculations for 195/50R16, I get 851.8 revs per mile.

-Jerry

bpi · June 2002

"Also, even when the tires are not a round under the weight of the car, the circumference should remain the same."
That's my point. It's not the same exactly. Plus perhaps the tires slip a little bit as they roll. You may want to contact a tire manufacturer for a technical explanation.

"(1181.333 rev/min) * (3.099 gear ratio) = 3661 rpm
Closer"
To me, 3661 rpm (real) IS 3,700 rpm (looks like 3,700 rpm).

subyaudidude · June 2002

I just bought a new P5 at Byers in Dublin and the sales staff there has always been great. Of course, my wife and I have gotten our last four cars there (Miata, Impreza, Outback, and P5), so they like us a lot.

With regards to the Jetta 1.8T - the engine in that car is great, but the downside of a turbo engine is turbo lag. When I had my '99 Passat, I didn't notice much of a surge, but then the Passat is much heavier than the Jetta. My problem w/ the Jetta, as many people have pointed out, is that you see them EVERYWHERE. Admittedly, the P5 is becoming more popular, but I don't think it will ever reach Jetta status. There are also some reliability questions regarding the Jetta. VW's are infamous for small but annoying electrical problems and rattles.

If you do decide to get the P5, let me know and I can give you the name of my salesman at Byers. He's a real stand-up guy and I'm confident he'd treat you right.

amonte · June 2002

I was checking out my neighbors P5 this morning and I couldn't help but noticed that the "wheels" (I think it's the wheels - behind the Alloys) were rusted. Has anyone else experienced this?

I have to be honest, I am starting to have second thoughts about the PR5. The RSX and Celica are starting to look appealing, though they are clearly more expensive (especially the RSX) and would probably require a longer loan period. Anyone have any thoughts on these two cars?

mazdafun · June 2002

That's surface rust on the disc brake rotors, which is perfectly normal. They need the low-carbon steel for its wear and heat-conductivity characteristics (not to mention low-cost). Higher-carbon and stainless steels have much lower heat conductivities, which can lead to overheated brake pads and warped rotors.

Check your fit into the RSX and Celica. I don't fit (head hits the headliner), so that pretty much ruled them out for me. If you prefer to rev your engine high, then they'd be a better fit than the P5 which puts out most of its torque down low and runs out of steam up high. More cargo space in the P5 too. But the P5 is slower in drags on straights.

amonte · June 2002

Thanks for your post. I fit in there, though it was more snug then the PR5 for certain.

So the PR5 engine doesn't like to Rev high? I wasn't sure - I didn't run it too high on the test drive.

Of course a totally base RSX will still run roughly about 5K more then the PR5...That's a pretty big jump...

vilainefemme · June 2002

My rotors are rusty, kind of annoying since it ruins the appearance of my awesome car.

I was thinking of painting my brake calipers but I can't figure out what color. I think a royal blue would compliment the silver.

A couple weeks ago my license plates arrived and we put them on the car. Unfortunately the dealership had left only two screws per location instead of the needed 4. Anybody know where I can get more?

mazdafun · June 2002

I think they're a metric thread. Not sure of the specification (an M10?). Take one of your existing ones and go shop for a "secure" license plate kit. Basically, this consists of 2-4 tamper-resistant torx-head bolts (usually brass or stainless steel) and an L-shaped wrench that fits the bolts.

dwryter · June 2002

amonte, I waited years for an update to the Integra. When the RSX first came out it was my first choice. But the back seat is unusable by anyone taller than about 5'4". Not only is the roof low but it curves in at such steep angles that the C-pillar is dangerously close to the side of the head; Concussion City for every lane change or turn. If you ever need to carry passengers in the back seat, the RSX may not be a good choice.

By the way, you can rev the P5 about as high as the base RSX but don't need to. The torque comes in lower on the P5 so power comes more quickly than on the RSX, but you don't feel the surge by winding it out to high RPMs as with the RSX. The base RSX is quicker 0-60, by over a second. Some drivers find that more important than others.

ggilliom · June 2002

subyaudidude -- thanks for the reply.

I've been taking my MX-6 to Patrick/Byers for years, and I've always had great service. And my parents love the Byers Chrysler dealership downtown. But the couple times I've visited their Mazda store to look at the Imprezas and P5s, they've seemed oddly disinterested. True, last time I was there, I mentioned I qualify for Splan, so that may have turned them off. But hey -- I'm trying to stay loyal to the brand.

I'd love to know the name of your contact there. (send it to ggilliom@hotmail.com if you don't want to post it here.) If you're comfortable sharing the information, I'm curious to know if you feel you got a good deal.

I agree about seeing Jettas coming and going. And about the history of electrical problems. Sounds like the P5 is proving to be very reliable, which is reassuring. Now, if I can just take a look at a white one with leather...

I'll be curious to know how you like your P5 -- you've had some good cars in the past to compare it to.

amonte -- it's tough to compare the RSX to the P5. Different prices, different purposes. I sat in the RSX at our local autoshow, and I thought the comfort and interior design (and materials) was AMAZING. But it's very low to the ground, tight inside, and can't haul nearly the stuff. Can't blame you for considering it, though!

I've gotta have space for two kids car seats in the back. In fact, I still have to take them to the dealership and make sure they'll fit for certain in the P5...

subyaudidude · June 2002

The guy I have always dealt with up there is Jon Haskins. He's a great guy, and he's always done real well by me. I personally have never seen a leather P5 before, and I'm pretty sure they don't have any up there now. However, he might be able to get you one. Jon isn't one of the regular salespeople. He's actually quasi-management now. But if you go in and ask for him by name, they'll find him. If you do go in, let him know that I recommended him to you. He's off on Fridays and Sundays, but works all other days.

I think I got a pretty good deal on the P5. The listed sale price was $16,798, but they jacked up my trade-in by $1,000 to reduce the amount I had to roll over into the loan (I traded in a leased car to buy the P5). So essentially, I got it for $15,798. It's a stripped down version (only floor mats as an option). Edmunds has it at $15,734 invoice, and $16,388 TMV, so I really do feel like I got a great deal.

My past cars have been:
(1) 1982 Saab 900 (1989-1993)
(2) 1994 Toyota Camry (1994-1996)
(3) 1995 Nissan Pathfinder (1996)
(4) 1993 VW Passat GLX (1996-1998)
(5) 1999 VW Passat 1.8T (1998-2000)
(6) 1997 Audi A4 1.8T (2000-2001)
(7) 2000 Suby Impreza RS (2001-2002)

As for my favorites, I would put the P5 third, behind the A4 and the 99 Passat. The A4 I loved, but there was a control-arm issue and because it wasn't discovered until I was out of warranty, Audi refused to fix it, even though there had been a number of reported control arm bearing problems. It could become a safety issue, so I sold it off before it got to that. The Passat was a great car too, but I traded it in on the Audi to get leather(ette) and a sunroof. It was also a Tiptronic, and in the end, I found that feature kind of silly. I never really used it all that much. The P5 is a great little hatchback/wagon. It's not as fast as the Impreza (or Audi or VWs), but it's still pretty quick. The ride is stiff thanks to the tires and suspension, but I like that sporty feeling. The gas mileage on it is going to be much better than the Impreza was, and switching from a 2000 Impreza to the 2002 P5 actually dropped my rates by about $5.00/month. Right now, we're paying about $1200/year for the two cars.

It's actually become my wife's car, and she likes it a lot too. She had the Miata, so she has a thing for Mazdas anyways. Incidentally, we have a 1 year old daughter and her Britax Roundabout seat fits in the back center position perfectly facing backwards. I don't think putting two child seats in the back would be a problem, though each would have to be on an outside seat (no middle positioning w/ two).

Let me know if I can be of any more help. You can email me at colnago1331@yahoo.com.

topp12 · June 2002

I am debating on buying a Protege5. This month they have a $750 rebate, but I am wondering if next month will be better, the same, or worse. I don't want to rush into buying one, to find a better deal in a couple weeks.

Thanks
Topp

tgif888 · June 2002

The current promotion runs through 7/8. So, I doubt it will have any new things for the month of June.

subyaudidude-In S. Cal., the biggest dealership "Browning Mazda" have most of the Protege5 in leather. I ended up buying a silver Protege5 with Sport automatic and leather seat. The leather's qualtity is great.

Good Luck.

jstandefer · June 2002

The California Mazda Protege Meet has been delayed until Saturday, June 29th.

There are three main benefits for this:

1. The meet will not be held on Father's Day.

2. Being held on Saturday (rather than Sunday) will allow more sufficient time to get back to work on Monday.

3. It will allow more people to come to the meet.

There will also be a small fee of $10 per vehicle. This will cover the expense of the application and permit fees imposed by the California Department of State Parks. Extra money will be used to purchase food and beverages. This fee will be collected at the meet.

The State Beach also requires a $2 entrance fee into the parking lot.

The website has been updated to reflect the recent changes. If you have already submitted an RSVP to the meet, please send me an e-mail stating that you have received the new date!

http://www.caliprotegemeet.1hwy.com

webmaster@caliprotegemeet.1hwy.com

maltb, sharonf... can you attend now? :-)

-Jerry

jas9297 · June 2002

Just took my second out-of-state trip, and my first big one. A 645-mile round tripper. And I love my p5!

MPG estimates were 31.7 mpg. I used about 17.3 gallons to go 546 miles. This was at least 90% hwy: 90 miles from the end of the shorter trip last weekend, car sat for a week in the city, then I drove from DC to CT, through NJ. The first fill-up was not filled, so I couldn't get a reading (you can't pump your own darn gas in NJ!). So by the time of the second fill-up, I had covered 546 miles. I tend to drive wisely, between 60 and 70 mostly hwy (now I've reached 1000 miles, I'll go as fast as 75). Probably did about 30 miles of city driving. On the return, I used used AC about 75% of the time.

iamz · June 2002

I depend on you folks for some daily entertainment here.

Hey, in case anyone is looking for an aftermarket roof rack for their bikes, THULE makes one that clamps onto our existing rack. It's a fork mount rack and the bike loads and unloads quickly.

The bike rail is a little long and will contact the spoiler on the hatch when it is open, but the bike rail has a black end-cap that is smooth and has not harmed my yellow paint. You could always shave about an inch of the rail if your worried about it.

Alot of you have complained about wind noise in the past, and if that's a concern to you, this rack will only add to the noise. When my moonroof is shut though, it isn't very noticable. If you don't have a moonroof, I wouldn't be concerned.

All and all, the system looks pretty cool and works great and I am pleased with it.

mazdadude1 · June 2002

Have had my p5 since august and still as tight as a drum. Got over 10,000 miles on it. Still as fun as ever to drive. Love the engine sound on acceleration from the stoplights. Takes the twisties like on rails. All is sweet. later mazda maniacs!! :-) mazdaspeed coming soon i see.

ggilliom · June 2002

OK, new topic for conversation. I'm still shopping around for a sporty wago, and love the look of the P5. But I've yet to see one in the dark -- so I don't know what the amber instrument lighting looks like.

In pics it looks cool, but I gotta ask: Do people generally like the effect? Is it easier/harder to read than traditional lighting? Would you change it if you could?

Also... tgif888 -- if you get a chance, post a few pics of that leather interior. No dealers in my area (central Ohio) have any models, and I'd love to see what they look like.

bluong1 · June 2002

Yeah, our focus turned toward Matrix-vs-P5 topic for a couple of days because someone there though the P5 is slow compare to the Matrix.

The red light of the instruments is really cool. At first I don't like it, but now I'm totally convinced. During the night, it blends well to the general color of the traffic, and it's definitively more relaxing for the eyes. I'll keep this color. Notice that all BMWs have the same color.

Bruno

bluong1 · June 2002

On a way back from a soccer stadium, the route has three 90 degrees corners, one of those is followed by a long curve ramp. Heel and toe shifting in second, rev to third, and take a ramp fourth, I left the next car (a Toyota Celica) way back there! Man, this car is really awesome.

Bruno

sharonf · June 2002

Re: dash lights. I like em....and since my P5 is red....the lights kinda match

Funny note on this topic. When my 68 yr old mother first saw the car at night she commented on the dash lights...."how neat...fancy...etc....do they match the lights to the car color?" Bless her heart!

tgif888 · June 2002

mazdafun · June 2002

Green is more visible, but I find orange or red to be visible enough and doesn't affect my night vision as much. The green looks a bit bright, so I turn down the intensity when it's really dark (i.e. no street lighting) outside.

Either works. Average human eye is most sensitive in the green to yellow range, but is still OK in orange, dropping off through red. Sensitivity really falls off in the blues.

Sporin · June 2002

The only time I don't like the orange on silver instruments is when the light is low, like at dusk or in a brightly lit downtown at night. The numbers can wash out a bit.

Other then that, I love it.

pciskowski · June 2002

I love the red lights, especially at dusk.

stropro5 · June 2002

iamz -

Does your Thule system add a second cross bar on to the front factory roof rack cross bar, or does the Thule fork-mount/tray attach directly to the factory rack?

Mazda Protege5

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