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Mazda Protege5
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Comments
I have been eyeing the Mazda3 myself but am holding out for the next generation in anticipation of another bump in horsepower, although the 160HP is likely more than enough for my pedestrian needs. Looking forward to your next installment.
PF Flyer
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I thought it would be interesting to hear from everyone out there on their experiences with major maintenance, modifications/upgrades and additions. By major, I mean more than a few dollars, let's say $50+.
Here are mine:
Model:
Protege5 2002 automatic 43,000KM (approx. 26,000 miles)
Maintenance:
2 year regular maintenance : C$250
brake calipers serviced : C$100
Modifications/Upgrades:
none
Additions:
BF Goodrich Slalom winter tires + rims (C$700)
Verdict:
Great car!
PF Flyer
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The average since the beginning (June 2002) is 30 mpg.
Driving pattern: 50% highway 50% city driving.
Verdict: Great car, great mileage.
My 5-speed averages 27 in 50/50 driving and about 32 highway, with speed generally between 75 and 80. I once had to drive 200 miles with the dinky spare mounted (couldn't find a replacement tire for the blowout), keeping speed below 60MPH, and got 38MPG. I don't expect to see that number again.
autonomous wrote:
----------------
On a recent outing to Montreal from Ottawa my 2002 Protege5 automatic averaged 35 mpg for the 450 km round trip.
The average since the beginning (June 2002) is 30 mpg.
Driving pattern: 50% highway 50% city driving.
You said "My 5-speed averages 27 in 50/50 driving and about 32 highway, with speed generally between 75 and 80. I once had to drive 200 miles with the dinky spare mounted (couldn't find a replacement tire for the blowout), keeping speed below 60MPH, and got 38 MPG. I don't expect to see that number again."
38 MPG! I guess you get top prize for mpg from a Pro!
You may want to go back to posts 7114, 7120, 7125, 7126 for some numbers quoted by kauai (where are you?) and others. Many are in the same ballpark.
It would be a surprise to me if there was less smog-reduction equipment on the Canadian versions. We're big on Kyoto in this country!
I do all the regular things to use less fuel (minimize warm-up time, reduce the number of short trips by running multiple errands, freeway in the the low 70s (aka 120 km), and glide). Speaking of which I don't see enough people gliding to a stop instead of white knuckling each light. Why are we racing to the next block when we know we won't make the light?
Now all I need to do is switch to that "dinky spare"!
I agree. It not only saves fuel, but extends the life of one's brake pads considerably.
Though I stayed in the far-right freeway lane, my drive home to San Diego took me through Los Angeles and Orange County. And many folks there consider driving slower than 70 a capital offense. I can't tell you how many times I was cut off and given the single-finger wave.
At the same time, I had to deal with the fools who drift onto the freeway at 35 MPH, chatting on their cellphones, expecting the right-laners to slow down to let them in.
That's why I don't expect to see 38 MPG again. Sometimes I try very hard to keep my speed down to 65, but around here, that's very hard to do because everyone drives at his/her own speed, often regardless of everyone else. I'd really like to see suggested speeds for each lane, which should greatly improve the flow of traffic and reduce both lane-changing and frustration. The #1 lane should be used only for passing. Anyone in that lane who's holding up traffic would be cited, then tasered.
Can I borrow that taser? There are several other situations in which it may come in handy.
Let's start with a mild taser shot for the following:
- driving over that white line to stop in the pedestrian crosswalk while forcing other motorists to make a wide turn to avoid taking off your front bumper
- routinely not signalling especially while waiting at a light or making lane changes at 70+ mph
- screaming down a road in a school district
- merging onto the highway in rush hour traffic while dialing your sweetie
There are other more severe, mind-numbing shots required of the taser but don't get me started.
Tires: I was asking about replacement tires since my Dunlops were then hitting 40,700 miles. I ended up procrastinating until last week with mileage of 47,600. As you can probably guess, those tires were pretty worthless by this time and quite a handful when the road was wet. Anyway, I ended up buying a set of upsized Toyos, 205/50/16. The sales guy at the tire shop sold them to me for the same price as 195's adding that I would appreciate the increased performance and handling. So far I am not disappointed... best part, I can drive in wet weather again without hydroplaning!!!
MPG: I usually pull 26 to 29 mpg with a 50/50 city highway combination. On a recent trip to NY from Central VA, I actually got a trip average of 36. It surprised me, since I was going at a pretty fast clip of 75 mph. Oh, I do have a 5 speed.
Repairs: None to date. Have done oil changes and the 30k checkup. Brakes and pads are still good. Did pick up a chip in the windshield that turned into a full width crack. Had a really noisy sunroof that Whitten Brothers Mazda took care of under warranty.
Verdict: Ultra reliable, still a blast to drive (especially with new tires), still feels tight without rattles, control operation and seat surfaces still look great (easily scratched plastic door sills and hatch area however) and still an attractive design. I had the car new since June of 2001. Funny thing though, I took a double take when I first saw the Kia Spectra5. Even my son mistook it for a P5!
Thanks for reading my ramblings.
kcram
Host - Wagons
“. . .for some numbers quoted by kauai (where are you?). . .”
Resting quietly. Those epic posts of mine take a lot out of me, you know. Thanks for asking, my friend. :-)
You wrote:
“Speaking of which I don't see enough people gliding to a stop instead of white knuckling each light. Why are we racing to the next block when we know we won't make the light?”
Uh-oh! Excellent observation, and oh-so-right!
Oh boy. You’ve touched something here. Now you got me fired up, and here we go again. . . <laughing!>
(A wave and a tip-o’-the-hat to The Glider. ;-)
This is one of the most egregious “errors” I observe in my fellow motorists. I suspect it is the principal cause of excessive wear on most folks’ cars. This behavior is not illegal or unsafe or “wrong,” in any moral sense . . . but it sure is CRAZY. ;-)
I dislike buying used cars (and haven’t bought one in over 30 years, and probably never will again), and this is one of the principal reasons why. This manner of driving is abusive to the machinery; it wears everything out unreasonably, unnecessarily, and prematurely. Most folks’ cars are used up, clapped-out junk, despite how they may look on the outside. They are, that is, compared to ours.
On the rare occasion when I’ve driven someone else’s car, I’ve invariably noticed that the whole car seems “loose” and sloppy and, well, worn out. It feels like I imagine ours might feel at way more than 100K miles. But when I look at their odometer, it reads little more than 20K miles. I just shake my head quietly in amazement, wondering how on earth this thing could feel so beaten up and used up so early in its life.
The answer’s simple, of course. The owner just drives it like everyone else drives their cars, and they just are all blissfully unaware of the long-term consequences of their driving habits. I think of it as a form of benign neglect/abuse. These folks just don’t think about it. They don’t mean to kill their cars so early in the car’s life, but that’s what they’re doing. They destroy their cars in one drag race after another, from here to there, again and again and again and again, day in and day out, year in and year out. It’s unbelievable.
They sure do love to buy our used cars. I think over the past decades, and I recall there was ONE potential buyer who looked at my used car, drove it, and failed to buy it. Apart from that one college kid (who wanted a bargain more than a good car), I have always sold my cars to the FIRST one to see and drive them. People are simply amazed at how our used cars drive with anything from 40-60K miles on them. It is difficult to discern any difference from the driving experience between our 60K-mile-old used Civic Si, say, and a brand new one. I mean that literally, as impossible as most of my readers here may find that to believe. Buyers of my used cars could confirm it.
People can’t believe their good luck finding a car like ours. And they buy it! If you want a used car. . . you want ours. Neither is for sale now, though. (’02 Si and ’02 P5)
But, back to the way people drive on their daily commutes. . .
The “pack,” as I call it, tend to treat the segment of road between this light and the next. . . as a drag race. The “winner” is the one who first makes it down to the next light. These folks have a tendency to treat their throttles like a switch: ON or OFF. ;-)
Every so often, I’ll try to keep pace with the others starting from a stop at a traffic light. Invariably, I find that full throttle is necessary or I’ll fall behind! Geeze!
As the pack hurtles down towards the next light, they can see it go “yellow” a good 200 yards out, but do they lift? Noooo. . . are you kidding? These people are in a hurry, you know. No, they press on regardless, apparently now determined to demonstrate that they can brake as late as the next guy! They’re in a hurry, you know, and somehow(?) they think this is helpful.
(I don’t know WHY, either, Autonomous. It may be the “Lemming Instinct.” I don’t know. It’s passing strange, isn’t it? ;-)
My guess is that this frantic rush creates the internal impression that they’re going to reach their destinations sooner. They’re hurrying, after all, with lots of throttle and lots of brake. They’re going to get “there” sooner. It must be so.
It’s hysterically funny, to me anyway, as I watch them go at it from the back of the pack. It’s also a bit worrying and somewhat disturbing about what it reveals about my fellow man.
I’m the guy way back, falling away from the group.
I’m also the guy, given an open lane, who suddenly assumes the lead, too. While they’re all stopped dead at the light, I cruise on by at 30 mph, or so, having timed my arrival at the light properly. . . and, most important of all, never once having touched my brakes.
The brakes business is a little game I play with myself in traffic. My objective is to get from “Beginning A” to “Destination B”. . . without ever touching my brakes, not once if possible, save for stopping at the end. Now, sometimes that’s impossible -- STOP signs, for instance. Nevertheless, you’d be surprised at how often I can come very close, and even achieve it at times.
I’ve driven through San Francisco in moderate traffic and never once touched my brakes, from the top of some big hill overlooking The City, to well down into the downtown area.
I’ve driven across metro Milwaukee for a good 10-15 miles in 5 o’clock urban rush hour traffic. . . and never touched my brakes.
I accomplish this by looking ahead, anticipating, and adjusting my speed accordingly. I flow smoothly down the road with very little speed change. Timing is important. I don’t accelerate hard and rarely brake. I rarely need to come to a stop at lights. I ease on down into lights, braking early and gently, if absolutely necessary, focused on maintaining a steady flow along the road, MINIMIZING acceleration and braking. I rarely need to come to a full stop at lights even when I am forced to brake. I use my attention, my anticipation, and my judgment more. . . and my brakes less.
This has the salutary effect of minimizing my contact with the pack, too. I’m safer that way, and less likely to become involved in some other guy’s mistake. (One of my top “Rules to Live By”: Do not get involved in the other guy’s mistake.)
Try it, my friends, . . . it’s harder than it might seem. And, who knows(?), you might like it, too. ;-)
The wear and tear on my car is trivial in consequence, especially compared to the others around me who accelerate HARD away from each stop, lift at the last moment for the next light, and brake HARD to that stopping point. (Autonomous, you suggest it’s “white knuckle” stuff, but I’d differ with you there. These people do this all day, every day. I suggest that they are very “relaxed” as they thoughtlessly beat the <bleep!> out of their machines.)
“It not only saves fuel, but extends the life of one's brake pads considerably.”
Yes, indeed.
But it’s more than that. Hard acceleration puts stress and wear and tear on the complete drive train and tires. Hard braking at the “other end” of this mini-drag race puts inordinate wear on the tires, the brake pads, disks, shocks, CV joints, driveshafts, transmission, and so on.
It’s not much wear over a short stretch, and yes, cars are made to be able to handle this. But it is wear, all the same, and a whole lot MORE wear than I’m putting on MY machine, traversing the very same stretch of road, but taking a different approach, so to speak. Cars wear out over time, and MORE so with each little mini drag race. And when drivers make a thoughtless habit of engaging in this practice from one stop to the next, time after time, endlessly on each and every daily trip, day-in-and-day-out, endlessly, well. . . their cars wear out at a vastly faster rate than mine.
Some would say I drive like “a little old lady.”
This is untrue.
The little old ladies kick my butt at every light, every time, every last one of ‘em. It’s a true fact! I’m always a distant last. ;-)
I am always mindful of not being an impediment to the flow of traffic, no matter how silly that flow may be. I do this out of courtesy, thoughtfulness, and because I don’t like everyone being angry with me. I’m not a mobile chicane. That’s no good either. I’m just quiet and unobtrusive as a rule, staying out of everyone’s way, maintaining the pack’s pace only when necessary.
The frenetic pace and attitude of most drivers surely doesn’t help with the many other stresses we face in this life, many of which are unavoidable. Lots of driving stress can be minimized and even avoided, both personal and wear-and-tear on the car, too. Especially on the car!
I get to my urban destination within, say, one or two minutes of everyone else. My trip is very boring, very relaxing, easy on me, and EXTREMELY easy on my machine.
I just ease on down the road . . . at the back of the pack. I have no interest in struggling for ascendancy in the “pack,” in any sense of the term. (Moreover, if you’re quick enough to stay with me on the twisty bits out in the country -- very few are -- I’ll happily give you a respectful nod, and an appreciative wave of acknowledgement, reckoning that you’re a good driver, too. That’s my way. :-)
In the past 20+ years, we have never once had so much as a $100 repair on any car we’ve owned. Not once. Basically, we don’t have repairs outside of initial warranty issues, and even those are very rare. Our automobile costs are confined to routine maintenance consisting of oil and filter changes, and occasionally we need new tires, which are consumables. I think it’s fair to say that the way we drive has much to do with this.
Thus endeth today’s sermon.
Go in peace, my friends, preferably with less throttle and even less brake. ;-)
-Kauai (who picks his places to go fast)
"I have made this letter longer than usual, only because I have not
had the time to make it shorter." -Blaise Pascal, French philosopher,
1623-1662
You wouldn't like to see such a valuable post abandoned, now would you? ;-)
We had this problem before.
Any chance those IT folks can correct it again, like they did the last time?
Thanks.
-Kauai (your humble Beta Tester)
"The #1 lane should be used only for passing. Anyone in that lane who's holding up traffic would be cited, then tasered."
NOW we're talkin'! :-)
Any chance we could just give him a little zap first, though, and then discuss the ticket and the major zap?
"I ended up buying a set of upsized Toyos..."
Toyos have an excellent reputation. Which tire did you get?
You wrote:
"I can drive in wet weather again without hydroplaning!!!"
No kidding! Basically, I don't like hydroplanning -- it scares me at speed. I don't like being out of control. I'm a Control Freak! Any number of people will be glad to confirm that! ;-)
You wrote:
"I took a double take when I first saw the Kia Spectra5. Even my son mistook it for a P5!"
You, too?! I saw a photo of that Kia in a recent Autoweek magazine and said the very same thing!
You wrote:
"Thanks for reading my ramblings."
The very best kind of reading, my friend.
Thank _you_. :-)
-Kauai
Meade
Tires: The Toyos I ended up putting on the car were the Proxess (sp?) 4 series. A really nice agressive tread, well grooved (siping?) all season radial, decent wear rating and well priced (relatively speaking). Another tire installer I talked to, who shall remain nameless, was going to install lesser Toyos. Luckily, I checked on the series and realized that they were summer rated tires only... that was why his price was good. Richmond had a lot of rain today and the new tires handled very well in the wet. With the old worn Dunlops, I knew (stupidly) how dangerous they were when I accelerated onto wet I-95 only to have the front tires lose grip. The rpm's were increasing without any forward movement. Pretty scary too.
Whitten Brothers: This is my first Mazda, previous cars were Hondas, Nissans and Subarus. I've had this car since July '01, almost 4 years old this summer and I have to say that I am really impressed with the build quality. I would not hesitate a second to buy another Mazda (and from Whitten Brothers too! Great Service team, especially Mike Z.) I like the new 3's, but the 6 hatch has my interest piqued. The 6 wagon is nice, but the lines of the hatchback are more attractive to my design sense. Of course I want the Rx8 too. What, too many toys and not enough time?
Meade: Yes I live in Richmond, VA too. Interesting place to live and work. Would be great to get together and swap car stories.
Thanks everyone, this is a great forum.
I'm signing up for your driving school.
Your profile says "AL, United States ..." but you talk of San Francisco as if it's home. Now, SF would be an interesting daily drive. Visions of Steve McQueen strapped into a MazdaSpeed 6 come to mind. In Halifax, Nova Scotia, another port city, the downtown driving feels sometimes like a 45 degree ascent/descent. It was a rental from Halifax to Anigonish that convinced me to buy a Protege. That peppy car against the rolling scenery made me feel as if I was in a zoom-zoom commercial. Meanwhile, here in the nation's capital (Ottawa) we just have humdrum elevations so the Pro just zips along.
p.s. keep those killer quotes coming
I am also considering Toyos later this year. In my neck of the woods there are several Toyo models in the 205/50/16 size including: Proxes 4, Proxes FZ4, and Proxes TPT.
Their warranties seem slightly different: the 4 states simply that it is warranted against "manufacturers defects and materials" the FZ4 says "5 year workmanship warranty" and the TPT says "100,000 mile limited treadwear" and "5 year workmanship warranty".
In terms of price the FZ4 is the cheapest by about 15%; the others are similar in price.
Were the FZ4 the "lesser" Toyos you rejected?
Is anyone aware of the differences between these three different models? Any long term testimonials for the TPT?
p.s. My brother has been satisfied with the Toyos on his Camry.
I kind of selected the Proxes 4 almost by default. Looking at the internet, there were not too many choices, mostly Toyos, Kumhos, Dunlops, and Goodyear in the 195 series. I considered ordering by mail, but after shipping and finding someone to remove, mount, add valves, balance, align and dispose, it was just about the same price to get it done locally. The other tire I considered was a Kumho Ecsta 711 series I think. I had specifically requested an all season radial and was surprised under closer examination that it was a summer tire only. Glad I checked however. The tire shop that carried the Toyos recommended keeping similar performance rated tires as the Dunlop SP5000's. He also had the FZ4's but they were more expensive aat his shop, and I kind of sorta was trying hard to keep a budget of under 500 dollars. It had been a while since I purchased four tires and to me they seemed quite high, but the low profile ultra performance V rated tires are pricey. Oh well. They do handle very well. I was not aware of the differences in the warranty!!!?!?
“The Toyos I ended up putting on the car were the Proxess (sp?) 4 series.”
It’s a pity Tire Rack does not carry the Toyo line. I really like shopping with Tire Rack, and I’d like to have the Toyos as an additional alternative.
By the way, I don’t know what your experience is, but I once tried driving summer tires on the snow. . . and I’m lucky to still be alive to be talking to you today! It was essentially undriveable. I actually slid right straight through a red light at one point, and it got worse from there.
I’m glad for your sake you noticed the tires were summer only. I’m surprised the seller didn’t emphasize this to you and even refuse to sell you those tires as winter approached.
Those who drive high performance Toyos all speak highly of them.
You wrote:
“This is my first Mazda, previous cars were Hondas, Nissans and Subarus. I've had this car since July '01, almost 4 years old this summer and I have to say that I am really impressed with the build quality.”
I agree. As much as we have liked our Honda Civics, we like the quality of the Mazda Protégé even better. If one of the Protégé models meets one’s requirements, I don’t think these cars are equaled on today’s market for value and overall quality. In short, I’d take a Mazda 3 over the regular Civic sedan today.
You wrote:
“I would not hesitate a second to buy another Mazda. . .”
Yep, us, too; we’ve even fancied a discounted Mazda Miata. Some of those can be had for under $20K, which is an amazing bargain in today’s market.
If you’ve never driven the Mazda rotary, I’d encourage you to take a test drive in the new RX-8. I bought an RX-7 in ’81, I think it was, and it was a great car. That engine is amazingly smooth.
If you should decide you might like to buy an RX-8, come talk to me. I’ll share some additional thoughts with you in email.
I have always been puzzled at Mazda’s lack of success in the American market. They make excellent cars. They do seem to be doing better these days, now that Ford has, I believe, a controlling interest. Ford knows how to market cars better than the Mazda folks, I think. Mazda seems to be dominated by engineers, as it should be, in my humble opinion. Mazda’s marketing has been poor. It’s the car-buying public who has been losing out here. They’ve been over-looking some fine cars.
I suspect that an even-handed appraisal of the Honda Civic (not the Si, which is a specialty, niche car) vs. the new Mazda 3 would have at least half, if not the majority of buyers, electing to purchase the Mazda.
The main downside in the past has been an uncompetitive resale value, where the Civic shines. But, even if I find I cannot sell my P5 for as much as I might have sold a Civic Si for when the time comes, I’ll reckon the extra “dues” to have been well worth the fun, practicality, and superior quality of my P5. Actually, though, our P5s are something of a rarity here, having only been sold towards the end of their product life in North America. In a few years, they may command a premium on the used car market. They certainly should for the knowledgeable enthusiasts who want what it gives, but cannot afford a new car. Who knows? We’ll see.
However, I think Mazda has a bright future with Ford, and I suspect we may see rising resale values overall for Mazda’s products in the future.
-Kauai
“I am not young enough to know everything."
-Oscar Wilde
“Great to see you back, kauai.”
Thanks. :-)
You wrote:
“I'm signing up for your driving school.”
Cool! You may be the only student, but think of all the extra attention you’ll get! ;-)
You wrote:
“Your profile says "AL, United States ..." but you talk of San Francisco as if it's home.”
I was just visiting San Francisco. Nice place if it suits you, but too many people, too crowded for my taste, and the traffic congestion was awful. It was a dramatic change from the Midwest where I live in Wisconsin. I think the Edmunds profiles were altered when they changed the software recently, and my profile was reset to the default value of AL.
You wrote:
“Now, SF would be an interesting daily drive.”
From my limited experience, I’d say any drive is likely to be a protracted drive . . . in stop-and-go traffic. Your initial interest might soon be replaced by something less happy. Lots of folks love it out there, though, and they’re happy with their choice. It’s just not for me is all.
You wrote:
“p.s. keep those killer quotes coming”
Ah, you liked the Pascal quote? I’m glad. :-)
Here’s another for you that I’ve always liked from Denise McCluggage, a superb columnist who writes for Autoweek magazine. Denise is an ex-racing driver, and in my youth I was privileged to see her race at a number of venues in Europe. Very few women competed in major motorsports back then, not unlike today, too, I guess. Denise was good, too, and she beat a whole lot of men.
Denise has a way with words that I have enormous respect for. Here she is speaking of the problem of trying to get our nation’s youth to wear safety belts and she describes their attitude, as they seem to think themselves to be:
“. . . invulnerable -- somehow cosmically beyond the jurisdiction of chance and jeopardy.”
Isn’t that wonderful? Does this not strike straight to the heart of the problem? I only wish I could write like that. :-)
-Kauai (who feels nervous and naked without a safety belt on.)
“Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long.”
-Ogden Nash, US humorist & poet (1902 - 1971)
I suspected as much.
My Internet source in Canada, Tiretrends.com, offers some interesting choices but is by no means exhaustive. For the P5 they include Yokohamas and Falkens. Judging by posts from other Protege owners the Toyos seem to be a popular alternative to the pricier Dunlop 5000s, the Falkens sound like they have noise and wear issues and the Kumhos seem attractive but are not as well known.
Tiretrends.com warranty information may not be complete so I would double check with your seller.
Did you opt for a national chain or a local independent tire seller? After some hunting, my winter tires were purchased at an independent thinking that I was supporting the local economy. But these days one wonders what is local, national and international.
It would be good to hear a short and long term update on your Toyos. Also anyone else's experiences with their tires would be much appreciated.
Sums it up beautifully, kauai. Unfortunately the statement is incomplete: not only does it apply to drivers other than youth but this is likely a global phenomenon.
The paradox: as the machines become more refined, our driving becomes more crude by ignoring safety and courtesy. The F1 races (returning in March!) are a mix of skill, endurance, daring, and chance; too many drivers rely on the last two only.
(Exit stage right)
kcram
Host - Wagons
I ended up buying the tires from a local high performance shop, not a chain. Again, there were not very many shop options in this area. I made quite a few local phone call inquiries, Firestone, Goodyear, Costco, Merchants etc., went on the net to find local dealers etc. I did hone in on Toyos after reading hours of consumer review sites. The shop I ended up buying from is a good one... they also did a great 4 wheel alignment job and tire balancing too. There is not one bit of vibration from the tires or steering wheel, just smooth.
Again, so far I am happy to be able to drive in the rain!
In terms of tire size I compute 195 mm = 7 3/4" and 205 mm = 8 1/8" which works out to slightly over .25" per tire. For all four tires this works out to 31" contact for the Dunlops and 32 1/2" contact for the Toyos. That's about a 5% improvement with the 205 Toyos which sounds significant to me. Does anyone else agree or is this difference "psychological"?
p.s. I would think that almost any four new tires would feel more secure than four older, perhaps balding, tires because of the additional new rubber. So new Dunlops may have made you feel better than your ageing ones. Nevertheless, four new Toyos is the route I'll be taking.
One extra benefit is that the taller tire means lower RPMs at, say, 70MPH. You may not notice, though, because your speedometer will read lower-than-accurate speed because the tires turn fewer revolutions for distance travelled. When it says 70MPH now, you are really going a bit faster. (Anyone know how far off the speedo and odometer are due to the change?)
The only downside I've noticed is that the aggressive tread pattern seems to interact with the diamond-cut grooves on some California freeways, making the car shimmy just a tad at about 60MPH. I haven't noticed it at slower or faster speeds. And it isn't bad enough to make me regret choosing the PZeros.
Have any of you buyers of the BFGs, Toyos, etc. experienced this -- if, that is, your freeways even have these grooves?
Regardless, I thought this information might prove valuable to others considering which tires to buy. Again, I don't regret having the bought the PZeros. They handle great, and are safer and quieter than the Dunlops when they were new.
Shimmy
The first time I drove across an iron bridge (originally built for train crossings) my P5 gave me a startle as it shimmied from side to side while the tires were locked into a groove. The P5 picks up anything on the road (potholes, cracks and in this case an iron web road surface). After that it became fun to hear the tires singing each morning to work and each night back.
Pzero
Pirellis look sharp. Being Pirellis and slightly larger I would guess the PZeros were pricier than the stock Dunlops. Is that true?
Tip: When buying 4 tires try to get a deal. On previous sets of tires I shaved off a few dollars by rounding down the price or having a "free" service included. Making the deal is easier if you have multiple choices (i.e. multiple choices of vendors and tire brands).
"Kauai, I'll check on the long post limit for ya
Thanks, KC. :-)
"The paradox: as the machines become more refined, our driving becomes more crude by ignoring safety and courtesy."
Yessir. We live in an increasingly uncivil world.
And the driving skills aren't too good, either. :-(
You wrote:
"The F1 races (returning in March!) are a mix of skill, endurance, daring, and chance; too many drivers rely on the last two only."
Today's F1 drivers do things that would have been unheard of in my youth. Stirling Moss goes on about that at times. Jackie Stewart's safety crusade over the years has had a number of disagreeable unintended consequences. Stewart worked so hard to make racing safer -- and it is, maybe too much so -- and the drivers turn around and make it more dangerous with their lunatic aggression!
Speaking of "endurance," today's F1 races are typically over in 90 minutes, aren't they? The 1957 German Grand Prix at the Nurburgring, 14.2 miles of 178 curves (IIRC), and lots of elevation changes, lasted over 3 hours. And they did not have any seat belts, either. Just to put things in perspective.
I witnessed that race. I was ten years old. There are scenes from that race burned forever into my memory. It was one of the greatest races in motor racing history. <sigh> Ah, the Good Old Days. ;-)
Please excuse this old man's reminiscences.
We sure do have wonderful cars to drive on the street today, don't we? My dad would have gotten such a kick out of our P5. :-)
-Kauai (drifting off into the land of good memories. ;-)
kcram
Host - Wagons
You wrote: "scribed."
An excellent word; I like that. It's not often that I encounter an exceptionally literate person these days. :-)
-Kauai the Scrivener
P.S. Are you saying you didn't read it? <sniff> ;-)
So. . . today's quiet new tire may be tomorrow's noisy used tire. Just something to consider.
For most of us, this is not a disincentive to buying performance tires, for tires are, after all, our "lifeline," and quality tires are always a wise investment.
-Kauai the Scrivener (who reckons tires are just about the most important bits on his car. ;-)
P.S. A reminder for the forgetful folks: Tires lose about 1 psi for each 10 degrees F drop in ambient temperature. With winter’s low temperatures, one needs to check those pressures and add air as needed to maintain the minimum safe pressures recommended by the car manufacturer. It was a mere 5 degrees F max here today! (Below zero overnight!) Don't forget to set the pressures for OUTSIDE temps if your car is kept in a garage. My unheated, attached garage is about 15 degrees warmer than outside. I adjust my pressures accordingly when setting them inside the garage.
Drop me an e-mail at mdaffron@the-rma.org.
Meade
kcram
Host - Wagons
> Pirellis look sharp. Being Pirellis and slightly
> larger I would guess the PZeros were pricier than
> the stock Dunlops. Is that true?
Actually, they're a bit cheaper despite their larger size, $97/tire vs. over $100 for the OEM Dunlop SP5000. (Prices at Tirerack.com). Fortunately, the unsteady feeling from the treads dancing with the diamond cuts on freeway concrete does not include singing. The PZeros are quieter than the Dunlops.
By the way, I had a blowout last year and had to buy a new Dunlop SP5000 to replace it. That new Dunlop now has 11,000 miles on it and I can no longer use it, having gone to a larger size. So, if anyone needs a practically new replacement for the original tires, same brand and everything, let me know and I'm sure we can work something out.
I had a girlfriend like that once.
Your notes about SF make me wonder what are the favorite cities for drivers. Monaco is probably not Schumie's first choice. NYC Montreal is a great drive; one pleasure is finding roadways that can be timed so that you cruise from one end of the city to the other without hitting the brakes or stop for a light. There's also the mountain and the port area for some variety. Recently the 40, a major artery, has been repaired and slightly widened to make for a more secure drive. Which makes me wonder what other driveability characteristics should a city have? I would exclude street racing in the urban core although having a track nearby can be an important outlet for those who want to exercise themselves and their machines.
So I checked around a bit. tirerack.com wanted $97 each for the PZeros. Sears doesn't normally stock them, but said they'd order them for only $237 each (gee, thanks). Evans Tire, a local chain I think, wanted $105 each, so I went with them. Most of the $32 (4 x $8) difference in price between Evans and tirerack.com would have been eaten up by shipping costs, and I'd have had to pay someone else to mount/balance/install.
Just one man's tiresome tale of some tires.
Thanks