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Due to the extreme surplus of used cars, most people are put off by the real trade-in values for cars these days, so the dedaler will offer more to make the customer feel better, but must make it up on the selling price of the new vehicle.
Step (i):
Based on the posts from around the same zip code (NJ-08854), it is being assumed that we should get one for roughly $350 over invoice. This brings down the depreciation to (10,041-2900) = $7,141.
Step (ii):
Values presented below are based on an Average of 15K miles per annum @ $0.15 / mile (I am trying to throw some intelligent numbers here - 15 cents a mile is what I believe they adjust excess miles during leases etc As always, I welcome your thoughts here ). That adds up to $2,250 per year in terms of "Cost of owning an automobile". These will be the fixed $$$ spent anyways, on any car, if a person wants to own one. The only way one could avoid these costs can be if (A) Buy a car and garage it straight away and clock zero miles per year or better still (B) Don't buy one ;0) Make sense? Once again, I make these 15 cents a generic figure whether it's an economy car or a Luxury car. So, if you apply that against the depreciation then, (7,141 - 2,250) = 4,891.
This is what I consider cost of owning an Infiniti over any other model - That is my true depreciation. Are you lost yet? If so, DO NOT bother to read on ;0)
If I applied the same logic to other vehicles, Here's the numbers I came up with:
Acura MDX - Based on the reported $2000 off MSRP on the forums Vs. Edmunds TMV @ Sticker, the true cost to own a 2003 Acura MDX (base - which in itself has most of the goodies) over any other vehicle comes to $1,200 per year.
Lexus RX330: I let my optimism run amok here. Based on the best ever reported deal in the entire forum (Plano, Tx) Vs. Edmunds TMV of $350 below sticker, the true cost to own a 2004 RX-330 (AWD with premium plus, headlamp washers) over any other vehicle comes to $3,118 per year.
Nissan Murano - Based on deals reported @ $500 over invoice Vs. Edmunds TMV@ $1200 over invoice, the true cost to own a 2003 Nissan Murano SL AWD (Leather, Moon roof and Dynamic control Package) over any other vehicle is $4,717.
The common assumptions in all the scenarios is is that:
1) You walk away with the slowest selling color / options list (or lack thereof) in the lot and make the dealer's day- That works for me, as long as it is one of the four vehicles above ;0)
2) I may be off by a few hundred dollars, depending on your specific zip code.
3) I suggest you only take the guidelines above and crunch your own numbers from the scratch for your vehicle / trim - I am considered weak in Math by those who really know the subject ;0)
First a little blurb on the FX depreciation. I have a RWD FX35 tech MSRP was 44,345. I paid 40,530. Currently Terry says its worth about 35,500. On paper looking at MSRP my depreciation is 9,155. But my out of pocket depreciation is 5,000. Figure if I sold it myself I could get 1,500 more for it it takes my out of pocket down to ~3500. now based on my payoff I am upside down a little over 1500 dollars so all in all the depreciation is not that bad if I had to sell it because of financial trouble or just wanted to get out of the car. below are 3yr analysis for the mdx and rx.
A 2001 MDX MSRP was 34,370 at that time most of these sold for sticker. So lets assume the avg purchase price was 34,370.
Kbb.com has the following data
Used retail 29,700
used pparty 25,415
used trade 22,885
Edmunds.com
Used retail 28,254
used pparty 26,322
used trade 24,226
Avg trade 23555
Avg pparty 25868
Avg Retail 28977
Avg between trade and pparty 24711
3 yr depreciation from MSRP 9659
3 yr depreciation from Purchase Price 9659
(.15c per mile avg car depreciation) 5700 (38K)
MDX Depreciation over $3959
RX300 in 2001 had a base MSRP of 35,655 + 3000 in options (leather, roof Cd changer) avg discout of 1500 off msrp. Would leave a purchase price of 37,155
Kbb.com has the following data
Used retail 28,835
used pparty 23,905
used trade 20,705
Edmunds.com
Used retail 28,212
used pparty 26,198
used trade 24,240
Avg trade 22472
Avg pparty 25051
Avg Retail 28523
Avg between trade and pparty 23761
3 yr depreciation from MSRP 14894
3 yr depreciation from Purchase Price 13394
(.15c per mile avg car depreciation) 5700 (38K)
RX300 Depreciation from MSRP $9194
RX300 Out of pocket Depreciation $7694
True Cost to Own
Clpurnell, "The purchase price employed is the vehicle's True Market Value® price in your state (including typical equipment and destination charge)." link
Hopefully the TCO tool will be tweaked someday to let us enter our own numbers into the formula.
I keep track of all my auto expenses, and the TCO prediction just happens to exactly match my cost per mile to drive my minivan :-)
Steve, Host
Thanks for taking the time to read thru it all!!
Ravi, Please see the link above for TCO (Thanks, Steve!)
CLPlumell, Thanks for taking the time to investigate this further; Like I have indicated before, this is not a bullet proof calculation method. It's just my own attempt at making the dealer see some logic when pricing a demo model. I would suggest that everyone take this with a grain of salt and fine tune it in any way you see fit / applicable, depending on your specific scenario.
Finance charges were not calculated as part of the depreciation for any of the vehicles. You will still accure them on any vehicle, and it will be somewhat the same on say, a 25K loan.
BTW, I made a typo on the MDX values: The $1200 figure is based on an actual buying price of $2500 below sticker. That seems to be the going rate here.
Just remember: You really have to negotiate tough to get these prices on any of the vehicles. be prepared to walk away from 15 different dealerships, that typa stuff....
But in an extremely competetive market like NJ, this is certainly doable, except for the RX, it looks like. I did happen to deal with an educated sales person @ the Lex dealership and he said at the end of the test drive that they do "$1K off sticker but they will not lose a deal for another $300". I liked the Cust service and promised to contact him back, should I go with it. I also indicated that I am ready to look all over the eastern seaboard for a good deal and he said he will do what he can to get my business. I will be testing the FX the day after and share my views!!
Cheers!
--njexpress.
I have had a running argument with the KBB people about this, but they cannot present a coherent reason why the REAL amount dealers will give you is about 30% less than their stated value. Just be prepared for this at trade-in time, and consider this in your estimated trade-in calculations.
What is the "Kelley Blue Book" Price?
Steve, Host
This is EXACTLY my point regarding KBB/Edmunds - WHY even offer the online prices if they are not based on reality? Why mislead the consumer? It would be better for us if they didn't even post these fictitious prices.
Perhaps Edmunds could do everyone a HUGE favor and start a new pricing advisory - TTV - "True Trade-In Value" - What people really got trading in their cars as reported by the new buyers.
Sorry to be off topic - but this is a sore point with me.
By the way, I am seeing a lot more FXs on the road here in L.A. - they are still awsome to me and I can't wait for my current lease to expire at the end of this year!
And they are adjusted depending on whether you are doing a trade, or a private sale, etc.
But we don't buy cars and neither does Kelley. Our numbers are updated monthly, but the auctions are on-going, and occur weekly at least in most areas. But we're usually right in the ballpark - often Terry or another dealer in Real World Trade-In Values can give you a number good for today.
Steve, Host
We took an Audi A6 with quattro on a similar trip three years ago, and the total mpg on that was around 22, even though the rating on that car was 26 on the highway. Another huge difference was that the Audi leaked from underneath, which we discovered after driving through some standing water, the washer for the headlights broke, and the car had an annoying tendency for the alarm to go off when it got overheated in parking lots.
Finally, we had the FX loaded to the gills the whole trip. There's no way any of our previous vehicles would have been able to carry all of our luggage, food (I have a special diet), and the various things my wife found to purchase along the way.
Bottom line: The mileage was much better than I expected it to be; the comfort level was more than adequate; and the utility was fine. BTW, I saw only one other FX along the way, about three G35 coupes, and about a half dozen G35 sedans. Other SUVs were a dime a dozen, as you would expect.
Dear FX owner,
We designed the FX to make a statement. In turn, the press has
made a series of their own. In fact, Motor Trend called the FX35
'one of the most entertaining SUV's on the planet'* while the
Robb Report noted that the FX45 'can be thrown into curves with
a gusto that no traditional SUV should attempt.'** Now, its your
turn.
You've had a chance to experience your FX first-hand and we want
to know what you have to say. What are your thoughts and where
has your FX taken you? Better yet, what about your fellow owners?
What trails have they blazed, and have they crossed paths with
yours?
We're featuring real FX owners on Infiniti.com, and you could be
one of them. We want to hear your stories, see your pictures and
let you compare notes with the exploits of your FX driving
partners across the country.
Simply reply to this email with your favorite FX thoughts,
impressions and even stories. You can even attach a photo--of you
and your FX, a personalized license plate, just about anything
that shows the adventure in you and your sporting machine.
It's a chance to share in the FX experience with owners all over
the country, and to put your own FX in the spotlight. Even if
only to make yet another statement.
We can't wait to hear about it.
Sincerely,
Your friends here at Infiniti!
Note: To ensure receipt, if you should plan to submit any
related imagery or other content over 40KB, please remit an
email directly to the following address:
mailto:[email protected]
Thank-you!
*Motor Trend, September 2003
**Robb Report, July 2003
Note - by responding to this email, you agree to the following:
I represent that I am 18 years of age or older and own an Infiniti FX35
or
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and/or
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My mileage is not long trip at steady speeds. San Diego has almost LA-like congestion so the freeway I do is like cut and thrust surface street urban assault work. Not good on the MPG.
The last three receipts (91 octane is about $2.25 a gallon here) indicate a range from 13 to 15 mpg.
Now I love full out torque launches in my 45 so if you put an egg between the gas pedal and your foot, you will do better. But it's not my style.
In fact, the 45 will satisfy your addiction for high G-Forces in both acceleration and cornering.
I never knew what 6.3 seconds felt until I started leaving behind almost all the other cars at the stoplight. With the 45, you don't have to be concerned if you are in the wrong lane for an upcoming turn. Just grab the shifter and hang some near redline manual shifts. I'm putting in a full time reverse camera soon so I can see what I'm leaving behind.
I think the biggest difference between the 35 and 45 has got to be in the first 100 feet.
Both can hang the corners (with the 20"wheels) at .87g, and I've slid around some freeway ramps so fast the "slip" light/system comes on!
The FX has got to be the most fun you can have sitting down.
Be sure to take snapshots also!
$1600.00 installed Anyone else experiencing a similar situation??
It's a great car, fun to drive, comfortable for a 10-12 hour drive.
Is it worth it? Does it make your FX look ugly?
Just curious, for those who went with the FX35, did you choose it over the FX45 because of total cost, better gas mileage, etc.? My wife thinks I should get the 35 because of both the lower price and better gas mileage. However, after many heart-stopping experiences in D.C. traffic, I truly want a vehicle with some horsepower/torque to get me out of those situations. I am waiting for the '04 45's to come out with the "improved" suspension as we usually go cross-country at least once a year on vacation.
In terms of power, drive the FX35 before you decide you have to have the larger engine. Test it in traffic when you really stomp the accelerator. If you look at the 0-60 times for the three cars compared in the Motor Trend article, you'll see that the FX35 can beat quite a few sedans with its sub 8-second time.
If you don't like the ride, you probably don't like amusement parks either.
I'm only 55 and I'm not ready for a "rolling coffin" like the RX330 yet.
(post #895 by skip30 in RX330 board, Jun 29, 2003)
"The coolest things about my RX 330 are the air suspension and the power liftgate. Actually I probably like the way it drives at freeway speeds the best...and I have bought over 25 new cars."
Goshes, you'd think someone that bought over 25 new cars would know the vast difference between driving a "forklift" versus "the coolest...air suspension...I like the way it drives at freeway speeds the best..."
Guess not.