Jeep Wrangler

jamey22 · June 2001

I went to the dealership to try to deal on the Jeep, but all I could get out of him was numbers games. He would not budge from the $19,900 price, even though he tried to make me think he did. I offered $18,500 out the door (tax, tag, title, etc.). When the paperwork was finished, I could have traded my 99 Silverado Ex-Cab Z71 and owed $18,500. He was still starting at $19,900 on the Jeep. When I pointed this out to him, he actually told me that all I had to worry about was the bottom line. That's when I got up and walked out.

Oh, well. I really wanted a brand new one with dual tops and a CD player (don't own any tapes). I guess I really don't mind waiting for the 2002's and doing a factory order. Anyone know when the 2002's are going to be put into production? Any new buzz about what is going to be different about the '02 models?

Thanks again for the responses to my earlier posts. Without that validation, I may have actually given in yesterday. I'll keep reading these posts until I am able to get my Jeep.

*Lurk Mode On*

Jamey

lookin4sahara · June 2001

Tsjay, I also had trouble getting on last night. I hope edmunds addresses the issue.

Jamey22: I think the 2002's can be ordered sometime in July with delivery beginning around the late August to early Sept. Non-custom deliveries will begin in late July or early August. As for changes, I also asked that same question a few weeks ago. From what the responses were, the only only change is that the tow hook group will be standard on the sport. I have also read (can't remember where) that 2002 may be the last year for the inline 6cyl engine and the V6 will replace it in 2003. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.

twylie · June 2001

I guess the half doors will only be avaialble with the SE and the new X model... Overall, pretty minor changes.

I found this link on another board:
http://www.jeepclub.co.uk/news/2002tj.html

DaimlerChrysler have confirmed the changes made to the specification of the 2002 model year Wrangler:-

- New "X" model with a 4.0L engine and cloth seats, standard
- New Ecco Wheel and Tire Group with P225/75R15 OWL Tire replaces the Grizzly Wheel and Tire Group
- 30" Tire and Wheel Group, speed control, full doors with roll-up windows and sentry key are now standard on the Wrangler Sahara
- Full doors with roll-up windows, fog lamps and tow hooks are now standard on the Wrangler Sport
- Fog lamps and tow hooks become separate options
- New HVAC System with overall improvements in performance and quietness
- Premium sound system that includes new tweeter in addition to the existing subwoofer
- New appearance for the Full Face Wheel
- New exterior colour: Shale Green

-twylie

davidb72 · June 2001

That sounds nice, any ideas as to what it might actually look like?

sasquatch_2000 · June 2001

I went to a dealer (Samara) last night, and test drove a '99 Sport. It was so much more solid than the '97 I drove. Quieter too. This one had the hard top. Do the tops make THAT much difference? (I had windows open to try to listen). I really think it was that much better. Two tops option, nice aftermarket factory Jeep wheels, 26,000 miles. Asking $18,900, willing to "let go" for $18,200.

I then went to another dealer and looked around. They had a brand newsport with "Grizzly" wheels for $20,something. That is only $2800 more than a 26000 mile '99!!!!! I don't know about that bumblebee yellow, though...

Also there was a beautiful, black 60th Anniversary edition with nice wheels and 30 inch tires. If I could get THAT for under $20K, closer to $19K, I might just bite the bullet.

Where do you people get/check prices on new jeeps? This is a new area for me to explore, and if I am going to consider it, I want to go in with the most ammo I can (before biting the bullet!).

Thanks.

twylie · June 2001

"Where do you people get/check prices on new jeeps?"

uh. Edmunds.

edit: either you or the dealer has to be smoking crack if you think you'll get a 60AE for close to $19k.

-twylie

ottowrkr · June 2001

Yes the TJ or any Wrangler is not a really high volume vehicle , but dont think for a minute they are a built on a small scale say like a Viper. They build close to a 100 000 a year . Since the basic design of a TJ has been around since 1941 with changes every now and again. Not much $$$ is needed to produce these vehicles. So the profit margin is very high .After the first 3-5 years of a new car design ,most of the cost of design and R & D is made back , then after that the profit margin grows . Why do you think so many car maker use the same platform for diffrent models? , to save money. If you really new how much a car costs to build compared to how much they sell it for you would never buy one again. but like any business the whole idea is to make a profit. But dont get mad at DC ,as all companies do this , those 75 $ bluejeans we wear cost what 1-5 $ to make . How about that 18$ CD , I can buy a blank for a buck , what do you think the music company buys them for when the order millions???

texasjeep · June 2001

sasquatch_2000
I see no problem with sweeping a foot of snow off a soft top. Now if it melts some and turns to ice you may rip the top or something trying to sweep it off. I would be more concerned with it streching the top and causing problems with the weight of the snow sitting on it.
You won't be able to order half doors with a hard top. You could sell the full doors and then buy full soft or half doors. I don't know how half doors would fit with a hard top. It looks like the hard top has the door surrounds just like a soft top, so it looks like it would work fine. I think at worst there would be a small gap.

Yes you can remove the hitch mounted cargo carrier. I will camp, run trails to a new campsite and then so on. I need all my stuff with me. They have a flat cargo carrier and then one that is raised 8 inches for better clearance. You may want to check that one out.

lookin4sahara
If that is the best price you can get, then go for it. No reason to stress over it and then up paying the same amount later.
Usually if you order they can give it to you at invoice because it is not taking away from the inventory on there lot. You may want to see if you can deal with someone else at the dealer and what they say about ordering one.
I would also check other dealers around you also, if you haven't. I don't know much about buying from the internet sites but you may want to look into doing that instead.
HTH

scomo · June 2001

DC typically uses colors across diferent lines and sure enough my buddy has a PT Crusier in Shale Green! It's a lighter green, almost a moss-like green. I like it better that the Forest Green and since I'm still Jeepless (**sniff, tears**) I may be getting my 2002 Sport in Shale Green once I actually see on on a TJ.

Jeep On!

Scomo

lookin4sahara · June 2001

Excuse me for being naive, but does anyone know what a HVAC system is and how it works? Would it be a good reason to wait for the 2002's?

twylie · June 2001

just a fancy acronym for heating, ventilating, and air conditioning. The curretnly Wranglers already have AC available, but it sounds like the new one is quieter and maybe works better.
HTH

-twylie

saharanut · June 2001

sas..(bigfoot)..I got my 60AE for $23,166..that was 200 over invoice.

soundslike very few changes for the 02's..i beleive the tweeter ia good move..

my dealer told me that 02's can start being ordered on the 25th of May..they start production on the 28th. Call DC to make sure

1-800-925-JEEP

Hey lookin' if you feel you have a good deal then go for it. No need to worry over $100-$200

Belive me the Jeep is worth it. Plus keep bugging your wife it does work ; )

happy Bday DWrangler!!

Sorry I missed the chat last night..I forgot about it...

Tazz is doing great..Gonna have a topless weekend,going now to lower that top..

Got Jeep?

Snut aka BamaTazz

http://www.itsajeep.org/public/tazz.htm

saharanut · June 2001

sas..(bigfoot)..I got my 60AE for $23,166..that was 200 over invoice.

soundslike very few changes for the 02's..i beleive the tweeter ia good move..

my dealer told me that 02's can start being ordered on the 25th of May..they start production on the 28th. Call DC to make sure

1-800-925-JEEP

Hey lookin' if you feel you have a good deal then go for it. No need to worry over $100-$200

Belive me the Jeep is worth it. Plus keep bugging your wife it does work ; )

happy Bday DWrangler!!

Sorry I missed the chat last night..I forgot about it...

Tazz is doing great..Gonna have a topless weekend,going now to lower that top..

Got Jeep?

Snut aka BamaTazz

http://www.itsajeep.org/public/tazz.htm

thedude1 · June 2001

Someone once posted (I think) a web site for tracking ordered Jeeps. Anyone got it handy, and what info do you need?

twylie · June 2001

http://www.ewylie.com/jeep/ordering.htm

has the info you need to track your Jeep while it's being built and shipped. It's not trackable via a website (come on DC, my buddies and I could build this system for you in short order, the data is in your system somewhere!), but the info is there so you can find out where things stand. Any feedback on the site info is appreciated.

-twylie

tsjay · June 2001

Hey, Boy, it's about time you posted! Where have you been?

Let's get active in here again, ok?

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

dwrangler · June 2001

Hi All!

Thanks for the birthday wishes. I got a couple of birthday wishes at work, but I guess I don't rate a card like some of the other workers up in the front office do:( Oh,well that just gives me one more reason to find a better paying job that will help me get my Jeep that much sooner

.

What I really want to know is if I want to get the anniversary edition package after the "anniversary edition" will I be able to get something similar. I ask this because I want the 30" wheels and the color matched wheel flares. Actually everything but the green seats. Thanks again for the b-day wishes, it helps when I have a bad day.

Oh, one more question. I'm still pretty new to chat rooms, but do the newer postings show up on the screen or do I need to change my preference settings? No such thing as a dumb question right?

dwrangler

davidb72 · June 2001

Did it, took the plunge, drank the kool-aid, whatever. I signed for a 2001 Patriot Blue with Tan Hard Top tonight. Got the 1.9 for 36 mos. They are adding cruise control next week, will pick it up next Saturday. It's a 5 Speed, Sport, CD, Sentry Key, Air, and that's about it. Oh yeah, the Grizzly Wheels are on it too. I think I got a good deal, the paperwork is out in my car. It did get ugly when I mentioned holdback.... That's a dirty DIRTY word to use in there... But they calmed down and I calmed down and we agreed to split the cost of adding the cruise so who knows... I test drove another Ranger earlier in the day, but it just didn't have the personality. My 1995 Ranger seems to have more personality than the new ones... Gonna hate to see the Ranger go, but they did give me a pretty good deal on the trade. Well, that's it. And no Tsjay I did not hug it (yet)!

tsjay · June 2001

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!!

So glad to hear that you got that baby! Haven't you been thinking about a Jeep for ages?

I know you'll love it! Now, you know that you need to give that Jeep a good name, don't you?

Keep us posted on your experience with that Jeep. Post some pics!

You gotta wait a whole week to pick it up? I couldn't handle that!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

jacknimble · June 2001

According to the jeepunpaved site, the Dana 44/ Automatic combo only comes with 3.07 ratio. I'm assuming that the driveshaft turns 3.07 revolutions per axle revolution. This means that my gas mileage, compared to the 3.73, is going to be a bit better, and highway speeds will keep the engine revs down. Is this correct or do I have it backwards?

tsjay · June 2001

Hi everybody! Who turned off the spigot? We had posting like crazy for a couple days, and now no one is posting.

I just thought that I would share my vehicle trading history with you guys and tell you how satisfied I am with my Thelma Jane. Ok, I think you might already know how much I love Thelma (Duh!), but you probably don't know how many vehicles I have been through.

Here's a list:

2001 Wrangler Sport (bought new Dec 2000)
2000 Grand Prix GT (bought new March 2000)
1999 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4WD(bought new Feb '99)
1995 Ford Explorer 4WD (bought used)
1994 Camaro Z28 (bought used)
1996 Cavalier Z24 (bought new traded for the Z28)
1992 Jimmy 4WD (bought used after wrecking other)
1992 Jimmy 4WD (bought used/ totalled in wreck)
1994 Ranger 4 x 4 Ext. Cab (bought new Feb 1994)
1992 Ranger 2WD (bought used)
1988 Camaro IROC Z (bought used)
1989 Mustang LX 5.0 Convertible (program car)

Ok, you get the idea. I could go back further, but even I have a hard time remembering all the vehicles that I owned previous to this time.

Starting with that '94 Ranger, I bought 5 brand new vehicles and 4 used ones in a little less than seven years!

So, I have now had my Thelma Jane for about 6.5 months. You know what I would normally be doing after owning a vehicle that long? Yep, looking for another one and trying to figure out some way to buy it. BUT NOT THIS TIME! I can honestly say that I wouldn't trade my Thelma Jane for any other vehicle!

That's why I say Thelma will save me some money.

Please don't think I'm rich because I was able to buy so many vehicles. It would be closer to the truth to say I would be rich if I hadn't bought so many vehicles. You wouldn't believe how far in debt I am on Thelma!

Catch you guys later

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · June 2001

You got it right.

The lower the rear end ratio, the fewer turns of the drive shaft per revolution of the back tires, and therefore the fewer RPMs on the engine.

This saves on gas, but it reduces your acceleration to some extent. It's a trade off.

I'm sure your acceleration will be plenty good enough with that good old 4.0 engine.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

saharanut · June 2001

I really dont believe you can get the 60AEpacjage later on.. Since is was a limited run only in April 2001. And the same color fender flares only are avaiable on the Sahara's. You could always get a sarhara then get seat covers, I thought about that while I was looking myself.The Interior was the only thing I didnt like about the Sahara. The 60AE is just what I wanted..Its the Sport but with the Sahara options with better seats, plus its limited..there will only be 1 60AE. Also since the 60AE is clissified as a Sport instead of a Sahara the Insurance on mine was $30.00 a month cheaper.

Congratulations Davidb

sounds like you got a good deal!! welcome to the club. I'm sure you will love your Jeep!

like tsjay said now you gotta name it.

Got Jeep?

Snut aka BamaTazz

http://www.itsajeep.org/public/tazz.htm

wyo_men · June 2001

Haven't been here for a while but I could use some help with a question.

First:
1999 Stone White Wrangler Sport
30 inch tires
Hard Top/Full Doors
Manual

I would like to purchase the Sail Cloth Soft Top for my baby but am told that the door design for the 2001 have changed and the new top won't fit.
1. Will it fit if I replace the doors with the half doors?
2. Is there a source for reasonable priced half doors?
3. What did they change on the doors?

Thanks for any help!

saharanut · June 2001

hello welcome back to the board..

I havent heard of a door difference in the 01 models. You could check out ebay for doors...i'm sure you can find some half doors at a reasonable price.

or check out http://www.quadratec.com or

htttp://www.thinkjeep.com these two are the best sites i've seen for jeep parts.

Got Jeep?

Snut

ozzy3 · June 2001

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering if there is a web site out there that has information on the 2002's that should be coming out shortly? I've decided to wait, and build up a bigger downpayment before I take the plunge.. But some information on what I'm waiting for will be helpful.. Thanks! Matt

saharanut · June 2001

Hello..welcome to the board!!
check out msg# 3007 posted by twylie..
he has posted the changes for the 02's. Not that many.. Added tweeter & New HVAC system..
Keep up posted!

Got Jeep?
Snut

tsjay · June 2001

Thelma's carpet was wet under the passenger side floor mat when I vacuumed her out yesterday. There wasn't a puddle or anything: just a wet carpet.

The inside of the firewall was wet under the carpet that goes up there, so the source of the leak is somewhere around there.

I had washed her a couple hours earlier, so maybe that's when the water got in. She had also sat out in the rain all day Thursday at work, and it was a very hard rain much of the time, so it could have happened then.

There's no insulation and the carpet is indoor outdoor, so no real damage has been done. I am not very upset about it, and I just figure Jeeps must come with leaks as standard equipment.

Thelma has been washed before and has been in the rain before, but that's the first leak that I know of. Maybe it's just some flukey thing that won't happen again? It had been a LONG time since I vacuumed her out, so this could be an accumulation of moisture over a long time.

I did check her AC drain on the firewall under the hood, and the drain tube is sticking through the firewall by a couple inches or more. (I had read a post that suggested this as a possible source of tonkadave's leak.)

I'll just keep my eye on it and see if it happens again. It ain't no biggie.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

some of you new folks may not have visited Thelma Jane's web page http://www.members.aol.com/tjoh298765/thelma.html

jacknimble · June 2001

My 97 developed a similar leak after having the windshield replaced due to a stress crack. At first, I thought it was a poor seal on the new windshield, but then discovered others on this board describing similar problems.

I'll bet there is a TSB on it, since many people have reported it. Mine wasn't a big deal either, and never bothered with it because it was a small amount of water, and it was sporadic.

tsjay · June 2001

Thanks. If you hear of any TSBs, please pass on the info.

I'll just keep my eye on her for a while and see if it happens again.

It may be reaching a bit, but I did do something unusual when I was washing her yesterday that might have caused it. Thelma had some butterflies stuck on her radiator, so I squirted water through the slots in her grill directly into the radiator. Some of this water might have gone all the way back to the firewall and found a place to get inside the cabin.

whatever

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

nkelly1 · June 2001

Seems the one common thread here is AC. Is anyone have this problem that does not have AC? I will check mine the next time it rains... I don't have AC.

We're going to the local air show (Gathering of War Birds). Mostly WWII airplanes, the biggest being a B24 bomber. There is a section of U.S. WWII military equipment, there are 5 of the most beautiful WWII vintage Jeeps you have ever seen (one with the original trailer). Two with machine guns mounted on them (this is very cool) and one set up for communications. The owners of two of the Jeeps are dressed up in period airborne (D-day) field gear. The whole thing looks like a bivouac area right out of WWII. Going back today for pictures.

jacknimble · June 2001

24-21-99 OCT 99 Water Drips From Evaporator Drain Tube
23-09-99 MAR 99 Water Leak Diagnostic and Repair Procedure

I couldn't remember what year yours was, but could not find any for 2000, but I think these for 99 models was pervasive for a few years. At any rate, its a start.

jacknimble · June 2001

By the way, my 97 had AC also - maybe that is a clue even it its not the evaporator drain tube

scomo · June 2001

My '97 Sahara had LOADS of water leaks. All were noted on TSBs from Jeep and had to do with water leaking from the AC, water dripping in through the cowl and some defective gaskets. Here's the links (hope this works..!)

1997 4.0L http://www.alldata.com/TSB/04/970406D2.html

1998 4.0L http://www.alldata.com/TSB/04/980430D2.html

1999 4.0L http://www.alldata.com/TSB/04/990406D2.html

2000 4.0L

http://www.alldata.com/TSB/04/000406D2.html

There are none listed for the 2001 Wranglers yet. Hope this helps.

Scott

(waiting for my 2002 TJ.....)

jacknimble · June 2001

By the way, my 97 had AC also - maybe that is a clue even it its not the evaporator drain tube

jeepboy727 · June 2001

I test drove a 97 sport yesterday at a dealership that had standing water in the floor pan. They of course dismissed it by telling me they had the top off when it rained the other day. I would think they would have dried the water out if they think they want to sell it.

The quest continues...

nkelly1 · June 2001

We drove about 25 miles in the pouring rain, it sat in the rain for 2 and a half hours then we drove back...... no leaks.

Looks like the TSBs are getting fewer and fewer. My windows on the soft top are "milky" when you look through them..... notcied that on one of the TSBs...... I am going to call on this. Other than that no problems yet....... getting my 3000 mi oil change this Saturday.

tsjay · June 2001

Thanks everyone for your input on Thelma's leak. You guys are great buddies.

I will be sure and post the results, when and if I ever get it checked out. It's gonna have to happen again before I even have it looked into.

There was not all that much water in the carpet. And, who knows, maybe it will never happen again.

I'll be sure and let everything get good and dry, and then I'll check for water after each time Thelma gets rained on or washed. I will also periodically check for water even if it hasn't rained or if she hasn't just been washed, to see if it might be the AC drain.

Keep up the posting in here! It has been great lately to see so many new posts.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

davidb72 · June 2001

Well, the more I thought about it the next day at Army Reserves the more I got to thinking that the Jeep I picked may not have air. Now, with the hardtop (due to my neighborhood...) I think I NEED air. So I called the salesman and he confirmed it, no air... I asked him to look for another one for me, similar, but with air. I'll find out tomorrow I hope. Wish me luck.

P.S. I can't believe I was that dumb!

nkelly1 · June 2001

I'm going to keep an eye out for leaks too. Maybe it is something that developes over time .. who knows. The ounle leak I ever lived with was the one on my Harley, chain oiler. It's all that time I spent on ships..... don't like leaks. Not for the $$$$ I shelled out for this.

Just burned a Glen Miller CD, you know Miller seems to go well with jeeps.

spyrodragon · June 2001

While the 2002 arn't going to have many changes from 2001, the 2003 are going to come with some nice options.
D44's front and Rear
Automatic Tranny with deep pan
This is the best though: front and rear vacum lockers!

It's gonna be nice... already thinking about a trade in

tjy · June 2001

Hey y'all! Haven't posted in a reeeeeeeeally long time, but I've been too busy having fun outside in my TJ to sit in front of a computer! Anyway, quick question for those of you with the I-6's. At what point is your low fuel indicator light coming on. My gauge will be in the red and indicator will come on but when I fill up, I am only pumping about 14.5 gallons, which means I still have another 4.5 gallons left in the tank. Anyone noticed the same thing in theirs? Thanks in advance for all the help!

mtngal · June 2001

My fuel gage is about like that - the low fuel indicator light goes on when I have just under a quarter tank. One time the light came on just after I went past the last Castaic exit and that shook me up - the next gas station is 30 miles and 3,500 feet higher! And knowing how thirsty that I6 is gave me shivers - the idea of running out of gas in the middle of a major highway cutting through land that is all national forest for miles is not my idea of fun. Since it was 8 miles and the worst of the grade to the next exit, I just slowed down to between 60 and 65 and went all the way to my exit. I still only put in 16 gal, so I had nothing to worry about. I've also discovered that it isn't very accurate either - it doesn't always show full when I fill it up. Knowing that the light goes on so early, I either judge my fill ups by it (why take a chance of running out?) or else judge by mileage. I get a pretty constant 19-20 mpg.

twylie · June 2001

tjy - good to hear from you. Same experience here; I usually fill up with no more than 15 gal. The most I've ever put in was 16.3 and that was after 20 miles with the fuel light on.

spyro - I'll be interested to see if DC comes through on the hardcore TJ that you mentioned. I've seen many people say "my friend at DC said this is a certainty...", but given the warranty issues of a vehicle that is designed to go VERY FAR offroad, I'm skeptical for now. With the grief that many have gotten from their dealer when servicing lifted Jeeps, I can only imaging the hassle in getting your warranty work done with F&R D44, lockers, etc. Maybe DC figures anyone interested in this specialty vehicle will likely put parger tires on and give them a reason to deny warranty coverage. It'll be a beast if they build it and sell it. Maybe they want to win the next TJ vs. Hummer challenge hands down (see JP magazine a couple of issues back )! We can only hope!

-twylie

tjy · June 2001

Thanks for the feedback mtngal and twylie! Just thought I'd check with my fellow jeepers. In the meantime, you all are KILLING me on milage, granted I do almost all city driving, I'm barely getting 15mpg....should I be worried or get it checked out?

tonkadave · June 2001

I have off today from my full time job and usually work my part time job. But today I loaded up the kids and drove to Maryland to try my first off roading in my jeep. I went to a Wildlife Management Area on the Chesapeake Bay. We started out on the gravel roads and then quickly tried some of the dirt trails and non-trails. I went through several areas of standing water and even drove on the beach for about 100 yards, since no one was around. Lots of fun. I started to get a little crazy, then I remembered that I was all alone with the kids in a remote area. The kids really enjoyed it. Wish I brought my camera.

Tonkajeep was a mess. The Mud came off pretty easy but the dust inside (we had the top off) was into everything. Even under the roll bar padding. The jeep will never be the same immaculate vehicle, but I wont be so paranoid anymore about scratches and stuff.

While washing the jeep I noticed water again entering the passenger footwell under the carpet. I Quickly traced the leak to the seam where the fender attaches to the hood cowling(the part with the large grill near the windshield). The seam that leaks is right under the passenger windshield hinge. You can pour a cup of water in the seam and watch it run under the carpet inside. They already have some expanding foam sealant or something but I guess its not good enough. I could probably fix it myself with some silicone sealant, but next time I bring it in I will have them fix it. Tsjay, this may be your leak as well.

tjy · June 2001

Hey tonkadave! I live in Maryland too! Where specifically is that? Do you have directions from Rockville? 495 or 95? If so, please post them, I'd love to get crazy on those trials!

mtngal · June 2001

My driving is all freeway or off-roading - very little city driving. The freeway driving is either up hill or down hill, so while it takes a bunch of gas to get home from work, it doesn't take much to get there. It all evens out. I think that 15 mpg for city driving is probably about what you would expect.

tsjay · June 2001

Hey, Doc! Man, we're gonna have to take your Jeep keys away from you, if you don't give us some of your time here. We miss you, Doc.

Thelma has about 3.5 gallons left in her when the low fuel light comes on, if I remember correctly.

I always reset the trip odometer when I fill up, and knowing the kind of gas mileage she gets by calculating it on every fill up, I know how far I can count on going before she runs out.

So, I know when I'd better get some gas, but I never really push it to the limit.

Now, keep on posting!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

P.S. I think you are getting all the mileage you can count on for strictly city driving. The EPA estimate is 15 for city, so you are right on the money.

tonkadave · June 2001

I live in Pa. but this place is only an hour away. My father has a cottage near there. Its called Stemmer's Run Wildlife Management Area. They have a large lake that overflows into the bay. A narrow beach is there full of driftwood. Its in Southern Cecil County off Route 282 about 10 minutes from Cecilton. I would love to get a group to go out there with me. Do you know anyone else in the area?

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