Jeep Wrangler

bamatazz · August 2001

carefull dont spend too much on your jeep..
I understand the jeep purist wash their jeep with mud. I Wanna know what the jeepers who actually want to keep it looking new for years to come.

WAKE UP JEEPERS!!

BamaTazz

mtngal · August 2001

Well, I put it through a car wash every so often to get the worst of the mud and dust off. I don't think the car wash will do anything that those low branches and brush haven't already done. It does get a coat of wax every so often, and it does look really good. However, within a week (at the most) it is dirty again! I figure that if the paint gets too bad I'll just get a basic paint job - all I'm going to do is scratch it up again!

nkelly1 · August 2001

How long has the transfer case, on jeeps, been chain driven? My mechanic says since the mid '80s and my dealer says since the '60s. I haven't heard of any outstanding problems, but is does seem strange that it is a chain drive. Wouldn't gears be better?

wheelshigh · August 2001

Well gear drives do go way back to the army jeeps starting with the Dana 18(1941-1971). Later The Dana 20 was used from(1963-1979). The years overlap because the 20 was used in the jeep trucks before they changed the 18 in CJ models. The last gear drive Dana 300, was used from (1980-1986) the last of the CJs. The Gear driven case are much stronger than a chain case and last many miles without being serviced plus they are cast iron and the chain cases or aluminum. ALL of the Wranglers use a chain driven case which feature a good low range(2.6:1 or 2.72:1). These units I have seen hold up to some big tires and abuse but may need periodic chain replacement if used hard. The reason the dealor told you that they were making them earlier is because of the existence of another option on earlier jeeps. This was called the quadra-trac system and was a full time four wheel drive system using a chain case and used on CJs from(1973-1979). This option is rare for obvious reasons, mileage wear etc.

BTW the reason they changed to using aluminum chain driven cases is to reduce the weight of the vehicle as most things on cars have in recent years.

nkelly1 · August 2001

Thanks, your explanation was very well done and helped me understand jeeps a lot more than I did. Still, I am a little disappointed with jeep on this. Chain and this "fluidic-compensator" are just something else ($$$) that can go wrong. I haven't got a shop manual yet (haven't seen one for the 2001) but that chain does not look like it would be easy to change out, especially out in the bush.

ispygator · August 2001

Near STL, huh?
Go see Ken Vogler @ Moore Jeep (Manchester & Clarkson), or email him.
He's the Internet guy, and is VERY professional. No jerking you around. And if he doesn't have it, he'll get it for you without any extra or hidden $$ games. Moore is the biggest dealer in the Chrysler/Jeep zone. My '01 was brought in from another dealership by him. I didn't want to get the run around all over town, so he did ALL the work. tell him his favorite fed sent you in, he'll have a good laugh and know you know your prices.

Gator

ps

it took all of about two minutes to come to the price. and don't wait till there is no inventory and the 1.9% financing is gone. buy it now!

ispygator · August 2001

your question is which speakers should you replace first: soundbar or dash?

SOUND BAR!!!

The only thing the dashes really do for you is give you a little fill sound on the high end from the tweaters.

HIGHLY recommend DALLAS at crutchfield.com or 800-955-3000. Been buying from there for about 10 years. SUPERB service and no squabble returns if you want (they send you a return prepaid shipping label with every order).

They send you at no cost FACTORY wiring harnesses to plug into the factory wiring for any speaker you buy (translation: no cutting, soldering, wire nuts, cussing). And they send you painfully detailed step by step instructions and exploded pictures for your year jeep.

4x6 up front with 5.25 in the bar. Used Polks. BIG improvement over the factory paper dual-cone paper speakers. Both speakers have seperate tweeters, poly construction (longevity and weather resistant).

I know this sounds like a big commercial, but they really are that good to work with, and I have never been disappointed by a recommendation from Dallas. He will tell you when it's not a good product for your needs and has talked me out of purchases. Impressive for someone on commission. You see the results from this post....

regards everyone, and thanks for you info when I was shopping not long ago.

got jeep?
Hope that helps.

ispygator · August 2001

Madman... forgot to tell you. Brace yourself....... the speakers took all of 12 (twelve) minutes to replace all four with the crutchfield stuff. Sound Bar has four screws for each speaker. Fronts have two screws in each cover plate, and four bolts holding each speaker. My six year old could have done the job in 30 minutes.

Folks really get hopped up about this auto vs manual tranny thing. Get what you like!
My first jeep cj was manual, and I thought it was great.That was then, this is now. Now I'm older (twice) than when I had the cj, so the tj is an automatic.

Between being 5'19" tall (that would be six foot seven) and having limited leg room for shifting activities, two young children in the back seat, a wife that doesn't do sticks (automotive that is), 90% suburban/city driving, laziness, and wanting the hand available for any number of things (jeep waves, food, beverage, resting on console, holding spouses hand, etc.), the automatic was the better and wiser choice.

You really shouldn't be doing 65-75 in a tj. So what difference does a mile or two in mileage make if you are driving 55? Top down I get beat enough at 55. Didn't say I don't like the open air, but can't imagine doing any faster au naturel.

mac24 · August 2001

".......but that chain does not look like it would be easy to change out, especially out in the bush........"

After a very high mileage the chain will stretch and thrash around long before it breaks. You'll get plenty of warning. Never heard of one that's good one day and broken the next.

madman390 · August 2001

Thanks to all for the advice. I am still not 100% on getting new speakers, but when I do, I think I will replace all 4. The CD player is a higher priority. But here's a question:

I have the factory sub. Do I have to look for a specific type of output on the CD player I want to buy? I haven't opened up the dash yet, I don't know what the wiring looks like. Do I need a separate sub output? How is the sub wired to the receiver? Have any of you with the factory sub replaced the receiver yet? What did you do?

Regarding the rest of the Jeep, it's been a blast. Unfortunately, the weather here in Montgomery has not been very cooperative and I have only been able to drive topless twice. Good thing I got the A/C.

I'll be working on a web page to post some pics. Any suggestions on where I can host this page would be greatly appreciated. I am still in transit so I don't have an ISP set up yet. I am using AOLs free offer right now, but will cancel when it's up. I will be looking into Cable modem or DSL once we get to Colorado. I can't wait. The connections here are too slow.

Thanks.

Madman

twylie · August 2001

I've used Mother's car wash gel and Meguiars products (quick mist detailer, #2 polish, and carnuba wax) on my vehicles for the last 5 years. It's great stuff. I recently tried Zaino Bros. ( http://www.zainobros.com ) system on my wife's car (dark green metallic; almost black). While their products are expensive in comparison, and take much longer to apply due to the multi-step process, the finish is really amazing. Check out their website for the marketing stuff (optically pure, yada yada), but if you're willing to put the time in, it can't be beat. I have never had a dark car look as good as hers does after using Zaino. For the two white vehicles (Jeep and Exploder), I'll continue to use Meguiars since it's easier and white doesn't show imperfections the way dark colors do. I've started using 303 on the plastics since it's got a UV block. Too early to tell if it's significantly better than other products. Plastics used on dash, etc. in the last decade seem to hold up much better to sunlight, heat, etc. Cracked dashes may be a think of the past...

Off to clean the Jeep...

-twylie

jacknimble · August 2001

Ok guys, I've put the power windows in and are they sweet! Look and perform just like factory windows and add little weight if any to the doors. And yes, they are designed so that the doors can be removed easily, and everything fits perfectly.

Took me about 4 hours, but I believe I could do it in 2 now that I've done it once. I was real careful doing the first door - took about 1.5 hours - but the second door was done in 30 minutes. The rest was coffee breaks and figuring out wiring, although the instructions are very clear on that, too.

tsjay · August 2001

Hey guys, anyone know how come Gill's site is down? I miss the chatting we have been doing there!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

wheelshigh · August 2001

I have no idea Tom.....gill's site has been down since friday. Maybe they got a bad storm and lost power.....or something like that...I'm sure he's working on it anyway.

nkelly1 · August 2001

A lot of web sites are having trouble lately, most of the ones I have been trying are have troubles. Could be busy this time of day or another "hole" in Gates's software.

scomo · August 2001

Fantastic JackNimble! I'll bet power windows on a Wrangler are AWESOME! Did you use a kit and if so which one?

sasquatch_2000 · August 2001

Why not just use a safety pin?

davidb72 · August 2001

Sounds great, but I am really interested to know if anyone has added keyless entry to their Wrangler??? I have a Premier alarm and am hoping I can add the keyless entry to that system.

sasquatch_2000 · August 2001

In a Jeep?

sasquatch_2000 · August 2001

Can 6 1/2 inch speakers fit into the sound bar?

I see Crutchfield has Infinity Kappa on sale. Also, how are those red Sony speakers anyone?

I would probably do the fronts first, as most stereo stores will tell you that is the most important for "imaging". The rears are just fill-in. I might do all 4 together if a better deal.

Don't forget, this is a Jeep, not a living room, so sound quality will be marginal anyhow.

My next question is whether I should yank my old Alpine stereo and/or amp from the Civic before selling it or not. Recommendations?

P.S. Spent last week at Cape Cod camping with the Wrangler. Bought a HitchHaul rack from Walmart for water bottle, storage bin, bike, tent stakes, coolers. Went pretty well overall. I also had an opportunity to "offroad" a little in some sand under power lines while scrounging for wood for campfire. Just loaded up the rack, and bungied it down. Worked great!

Rode around with doors off, but worried about cops since mirrors were also off (but I saw others doing same!).

See ya.

Chewbacca

jacknimble · August 2001

The windows are from Quadratec. They are truly bolt in, designed specifically for the Wrangler.

When ordering them, the salesman advised that "the motors stick out some". This is a VERY minor warning, and although true, you cannot tell at all.

jacknimble · August 2001

Me too, David. I purchased a universal fit from JC Whitney, but I'm reluctant to invest the time and energy to make a fit, and I question the quality some also. I've been searching for a custom fit kit, but been unable to turn one up. Let us know if you find one.

I think I'm going with an auto-dimming rearview mirror with temp and compass next.

jacknimble · August 2001

Ok, I made the investments in the Polks from Crutchfield. Now, my question is, what is the output from the factory cd player/receiver with subwoofer? I dont want to replace the head unit or subwoofer, just need to know for reference purposes.

jacknimble · August 2001

In my continuing, and somewhat controversial quest to "citify" by Wrangler, I've come across this rearview mirror:

http://www.rpminnovations.com/

look for model number 36500

Has anyone tried this mirror before, or had experience with this manufacturer?

madman390 · August 2001

Evening all. Just wanted to check in and give you an update...

1) Decided on a Sony MP3/CD Receiver, more expensive so no new speakers. But, I can put at least 150 songs (MP3s) on a single CD, so I don't have to buy a changer and risk it getting stolen and taking up valuable space in the Jeep. The sound with the factory sub and speakers is still pretty good. I may eventually upgrade the speakers, but there are many more items I'd like to upgrade/add before speakers.

2) Speaking of speakers...I had Circuit City install the receiver so I still don't know the wiring exactly. But when I asked them, they said the sub has a built in amp, so the wiring goes from the receiver to the sub, and then to the speakers. I haven't seen this myself, so take it for what it's worth. By the way, these are the same guys that originally connected my sub output to the "power antenna" lead so my sub would turn off whenever I played an MP3/CD. They did fix it a few days later.

3) Finally a little sun today. Got off work, took the top off, and went to find some "off roading" to do. But it was still very, very muddy, and I could not find very much public land, so I limited my offroading to only a few hundred yards from the trail. Still, much fun, a few pics, and now my Jeep is happy, covered with Alabama mud. One bit of advice though...if you hit a large puddle of Alabama water with your top down (the Jeep's too), make sure your mouth is closed!

That's all for now. Sorry for the long post. Looks like more rain tonight and tomorrow. When will it end? By the way, first fill up today...14.78MPG. Hope it gets better.

Madman

pokey10 · August 2001

Chewbacca,

Concerning the civic I would first decide if you want to use the stereo in the jeep. If the receiver is an older model and you would like to upgrade I would pull the amp and hook the speakers directly to the old receiver. You never get much more for your car with a good stereo, the aftermarket receiver is more of a selling point. Plus you may want to use your amp (if not in the jeep) in another car/truck later on.

As for me I'm going to keep the factory CD for now and upgrade the 4 speakers and look into replacing the sub/amp. I might also add some tweaters somewhere up by the corners of the windsheild to improve imaging.

The problem with car stereos once you start replacing it is hard to stop!

Happy stereo shopping.

Pokey

twylie · August 2001

if you want to avoid/delay replacing the factory speakers, I suggest the following for better sound...

1. stuff the soundbar with polyfil.

2. install XTC foam baffles behind the front speakers.

based on my unscientific listening tests, you will get 72% of the sound quality upgrade as replacing with decent aftermarket speakers. YMMV, but honestly, for $10, this made a big difference in how the speakers sound.

see: http://www.ewylie.com/jeep/mods.htm for details (shameless self promotion...)

-twylie

scomo · August 2001

Sorry if it's been mentioned already but instead of buying anything just take the strap off one side, twist is a few times to make it shorter and put it back on!!. Definitely the cheapest mod I'd ever done!

tsjay · August 2001

What a day! We got a break from the heat and humidity, and I drove Thelma Jane to work today for the first time since I got the S-10 on July 16. She was topless and doorless, of course!

I suppose the temperature must have peaked somewhere in the mid eighties, and the humidity was way down compared to where it has been for the past several weeks.

By the way, Thelma's odometer rolled over to the 12,000 mile figure when I drove her at lunch time today.

Sure enjoyed that drive home this evening! I am looking forward to some early autumn weather when I can really enjoy Thelma Jane. Hopefully, there will be lots of days then that will be as pleasant as today.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

bamatazz · August 2001

sorry I havent posted in awhile...
This week was my sons first week of school..whew..
now why did i have kids?..j/k
you guys are posting again!!
Ive REALLY want to update my sound system too..
I dont wanna replace the factory radio..just the speakers and add an amp i had in my s-10.
Trey..i looked at your web site..think i will do the "cheap" stuff 1st to see if that helps..
I need some treble..the Sub is great..just a little too much bass..
i believe I will have a topless day tomorrow..
its been awhile...now how you take down the soft top?..one bow...two bow...cross bow?
LOL

Keep jeepin!
BamaTazz

ispygator · August 2001

Don't know for sure, haven't seen specs. I've been told its 12-16 watts (3-4 per corner), and assume thats got to be close. twylie's suggestion of the XTC foam baffles is probably real sound (da da dum) advice.

sasquatch, I would generally agree about your comments on replacing the fronts first, if you are talking about a car. In a Jeep TJ, the REARS are the ones that put out the bulk of your sound as they are elevated just above your ears firing down. In a car, they are in the back deck or sides, and usually fire up into the back glass. The round 5.25 with a seperate tweet put out a lot more sound than the odd sized 4x6. Try putting all of your sound up front with the factory speaks, and then go all to the rear while you are sitting in the seat. While the sound isn't great with the factory paper cones, it's all relative. The difference you hear from front to rear will be consistent with the difference you will hear front to rear with upgrades.

BTW, if you replace all 4 with the polks (smooth sound and very power efficient) from crutchfield, you will spend less than $150 delivered to your door in about 2 days.

I can't imagine spending money to replace a factory cd head unit before first replacing speakers. One's system can only sound as good as the speakers. Try them first, and you might not want to spend the bucks on a replacement cd unit. If you do replace the factory cd, I guarantee that you'll want to replace the factory speakers anyway.

twylie · August 2001

on the power question, from the DC site...
RBR AM/FM Stereo, CD with 3-band graphic equalizer. Provides 66 watts of total power at 3% total harmonic distortion, 10 AM/10 FM stations presets, seek-and-scan features and joystick balance/fader speaker controls. Production Option RBR Radio.

If they split the power equally across 4 channels, that's 16.5 w per channel. My experience was that I am able to get the amp to clip (distort) more easily with the Boston Acoustics speakers installed than compared to the factory speakers. This could one of 2 things, 1.) new speakers are less efficient. This is possible, but the BA are pretty efficient at 92db @ 1w 1m, or 2.) I'm now able to tolerate the sound of the music at louder volumes so I'm pushing the amp harder then before. It's probably a little of both. Having said that, I think that 16w/channel is probably the peak output of the factory deck (nominal at the 3-4w that ispy mentioned). With the top down, it takes a lot of juice to run speakers at any real volume, so I imagine the factory amp is now the weak link. I'd be interested to know if anyone that has upgraded the head unit alone (madman?) can comment on how the factory speakers sound when turned up to 11 with a new head unit.

It's a vicious cycle... first the speakers, then the head unit, then an amp, then a better sub, then even better speakers... I speak from experience on this one (home system). "Hi, my name is Trey and I have a problem..." Hmmmm, maybe I can put that spare Krell amp in the back of the Jeep...

For now, I just make sure I have a stack of good tunes in the Jeep and keep the top down, and the radio up.

-twylie

jacknimble · August 2001

Is it possible to simply add an amp to the factory CD? I guess it would have to amplify the existing amps sound which might be distorted, but just wonder if its acceptable?

twylie · August 2001

This can be done; you just need to look for an amp that has speaker level inputs. The signal won't be quite as clean as if you run from preamp outs to pre-ins on the amp, but it will definitely work and give you more power. The trick is to set the gain on the amp so you avoid distortion from the factory head unit. Most lower cost power amps offer this feature.

-twylie

pokey10 · August 2001

twylie,

Great web page, many of the mods you have done I would like to do myself.

One quick question: where did you find the velcro straps you mentioned to stop the rear seat belts from flaping in the wind? I had the top up with all the windows out on the highway they drove me nuts.

Thanks for the help

Pokey

twylie · August 2001

Pokey - I found the 2 sided velcro (one side hooks and the other side loops) at Home Depot. I have seen the same stuff at a "arts & crafts" store.

-twylie

bamatazz · August 2001

whoo...your too smart for me...I know your getting tired of all these stereo questions..
the amp i had in my s-10 in a Alpine
Flex 4..four channel amplifier.
is Line level input the same as Speaker level input?

thanx..
bamatazz

twylie · August 2001

not a matter of being any smarter; just a function of not yet having kids and more free time for my hobbies . Line level input is the same as speaker level inputs. The Alpine amp you mentioned would do a great job of driving the Jeep speakers. I'm still trying to find a space (not open to the weather or one that will not take up precious cargo room) to mount a small amp. I haven't looked for room behind the glove box yet, but if any one has suggestions, I'd be grateful. Under the seats would be an option, but I usually tilt them forward if there is a chance of rain, so they would be exposed. I may look into mounting a plate to the space where you would screw in the add a trunk. This would be somewhat secure and hidden if the top is down and the rear door locked. All other ideas appreciated.

Any word from Gill? I see his site is stil down. Hope it's nothing too serious.

-twylie

goducks1 · August 2001

I've got the Polks in my Jeep front and back too and thought they were well worth the $150 investment. I want to upgrade a bit when I get done paying the Jeep off (3 more payments, baby). I'd like to add a small sub/amp combo too, and I wonder if it could somehow work its way into my center console. I could sacrifice some of the space no problem, and I am loathe to give up any cargo space, never mind the opportunities for thieves that would present. Note that I have a '98, so no factory sub was available when I bought it.

tsjay · August 2001

I think Gill is almost back in business. I just tried it and got the home page up. The chat is still not working, but I was able to get to the bulletin board, and there are no posts there now. It was totally empty, and not even any forum titles were listed, just forum 1, forum 2, etc.

Maybe he will be up again sooon! Still have had no contact with him and don't know what has happened.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

madman390 · August 2001

Today was a beautiful day here in Montgomery. Unfortunately, I have too much work to do and can't go Jeepin'!

Regarding the tunes, here's my story...

I started out with the factory sub and the tape player only, no CD. I knew I was going to be spending lots of time in the Jeep and wanted to have a CD player and a Changer for all my music. So I decided to save my $$ for an after-market CD changer. Upon doing further research, I found that the CD changer was going to take up too much valuable space. I resigned myself to getting a single CD player. Then I came across the CD/MP3 player. I can put around 150 CD quality MP3s on a CD that will play in my MP3 reader. It has detachable face (security) and sounds great, even on the factory speakers.

The tape player sounded OK, but the base from the sub overpowered everything else. I could not control the sub very well with the controls on the tape deck. Either I had no base, or too much base.

I also installed the poly-fil in the sound bar (thanks twylie) and have some baffles to install in the front.

The bottom line...

There is definitely an improvement in sound, at all levels of volume. The receiver allows me to fine tune the sound, which was important to me. I can get as much or as little base as I want. The sound quality at louder volumes is also better, although that may be attributable to the source (CD/MP3, with the previous unit, all I had was the radio and reception was not that great).

I will probably upgrade the speakers at a later date. But for now, it sounds great, top on or off. And there are other things I'd like to spend my $$ on.

Hope this makes sense.

Madman

sandmaan · August 2001

anybody heard any rumors about Jeep discontinuing the Wrangler altogether ?

sometime in the next 5 or so years ?

I know they're working on a couple of concept cars, one of which I heard

is supposed to replace the TJ ........... (I think its the Willys)

all I know is, it doesn't look like the doors come off of any of these .....

http://www.wrangler4you.com/concept_cars.htm

sandmaan · August 2001

Is the factory CD player worth the dough ?
I'm not a big sound freak, but I want to be
able to play some CDs now and then on a
decent player.

I just need to know if the stock model is really a
piece of crap or not ......

jeephead · August 2001

I've got the factory CD player, and I haven't yet taken the time or money to upgrade. I like music, but I'm by no means an audiophile. The factory system sounds pretty good, except it doesn't have a whole lot of power, especially with the top down. However, the sound is clear and player seems to work well (few skips, etc.). I have a 2000, so I don't have the factory sub. From what I have heard, it makes a huge difference for the factory setup.

Jeephead

bamatazz · August 2001

to me..the factory reciver/player sounds very good,for it to be a "factory" model. i've heard worse (nissan) and i've heard better.
I agree it doesn't have alot of power. I feel that it will do. I really dont want to replace it with another system. I dont wanna give anyone a REASON to break in. I feel if i add an amp & replace the speakers (really need some tweeters.. the sub is overpowering.) It will be great.
Now I gotta figure out where to find the $$
Just Empty Every Pocket.

Keep Jeepin'
BamaTazz

Trey...I appreciate you help...
where did you get the XTC foam baffles?

tsjay · August 2001

Hey, everyone, Gill's chat room is open for business again!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

spyrodragon · August 2001

There is alot of speculation as to what's next. Supposedly there is an off-road version of the wrangler coming out in 2003, but not for sure. It's supposed to include D44 axels front and rear, no-slip lockers, a mild lift and 31" at tires. As for the complete change in style, it might happen in 5 years and it might not. The Willy's supposedly isn't going to be the "new" wrangler but another vehicle called the ICON is a viable contender to take the slot. It will have independent suspension front and rear. A modular top (a hard top that will come apart in pieces). And is uglier than the Liberty. Again, none of these are for sure. They are still concepts and I hope only the first one happens.

Happy Jeepin'

maryapruitt · August 2001

Finally! I have made pictures of the Jeep, the Wilderness Rack and the trailer we tow.

Go to our home page listed below and then go to our "Jeep Worship Page".

http://hometown.aol.com/maryapruitt/myhomepage/index.html

Always enjoy reading the posts in here. We are working on upgrading our sound system now and find the information found in here very valuable!

Thanks Guys!

Mary Ann

wheelsdown · August 2001

Mary Ann

Great pics of the TJ and trailer. Any idea at this time just how much of a hit you took on the gas mileage while towing the trailer?

scomo · August 2001

JackNimble: Where did you tap into power for the power windows setup? Are there quick disconnects for the power going thru the door so the doors can be removed? Was it a true "no drilling" install? Sorry for all the questions..!

Thanks!

Jeep Wrangler

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