Scion xA

xmarine97 · February 2005

If you are using your Scion for your mail route,I would recommend staying with the nonsynthic oil and change it every 3000 miles.Due to the fact that you do a lot of stop and go driving.Just my 2 cents worth.

micweb · February 2005

You are carrying a lot of weight. Heat is the primary enemy of engines. Synthetic won't sludge up, varnish, or have other thermal breakdown issues like conventional oil. I would probably run Mobil 1 5-30 full synthetic with 5,000 mile intervals, the shortest change interval required by Scion (7,500 normal 5,000 severe, if my memory is correct).

There are two cheaper options. Rotella -T full synthetic 5-40 is made by Shell with diesel and heavy duty gas applications. It is not a true full synthetic like Mobil 1 (built up from molecules) but one of the alternate "re-engineered" conventional oil synthetics. This oil is about $3.50 a quart in 4 quart jugs from Wal-Mart; Mobil 1 is $5 a quart.

The cheapest option is Chevron Supreme 10-40 (or whatever appropriate weight they stock) from Costco. Chevron has had some of the most advanced refining techniques - the process they developed is known as "hydro cracking" - and produces an oil that is very uniform. It is considered a Type II+ product, not a full Type III "re-engineered" synthetic or a true "built from molecules up" Type IV product like Mobil 1.

In choosing an oil I would take into account three factors:

1. You apparently used conventional oil in your old car on the same route and never had problems.

2. "Conventional" oil recently got a significant upgrade from SL to SM which essentially means major brands are using a base stock oil much closer to "semi-synthetic" anyway.

3. On the other hand, modern cars like the xA run at higher operating temperatures and tend to have narrower oil passages in the cylinder head where the oil can be exposed to significantly higher "spot" temperatures that can break it down.

All things being equal, I would probably use Rotella -T. It is NOT an "energy star" oil because it designed more like a "high mileage" oil with extra wear additives for extra engine protection. A lot of people swear by it, and you can research it on the Shell website or other websites. One caution - part of the recent changes in oil grades have been to reduce antiwear additives that are known to shorten catalytic converter life for the redesigned converters that use less platinum (read: cheaper). My VW has an old fashioned platinum rich converter for which the new grade oil is not necessary. You would need to check your XA manual to see what oil grade is required for the xA, and possible call the Shell technical support line for guidance. Otherwise you could risk shortening the converter life.

iluvmysephia1 · February 2005

did you get rid of your Scion xA? Still have it?

micweb · February 2005

I thought we were going to trade it in on an xB, but my wife fell in love with a CR-V and we got that instead. We traded in two cars for one, so we are starting to hew to the norm a little better. We should be down to two vehicles by mid year, right now the Neon is easier for my wife to drive than the CR-V. I have been driving a VW Golf, sort of the xA's older sibling, but doesn't have the reliability reputation of Toyota products (particularly the high reliability of the Echo and xA).

iluvmysephia1 · February 2005

marketing question here. Would you buy another Scion(of any model)? For instance, Scion will be putting out the xA RS 2.0 in blue in May 2005. That red RS 1.0 looked great and total cost before T&L was only $15,200 or dollars to that effect somewhere. That's a good deal because the RS xA's already come tricked out nicely straight-from-the-factory, know what I mean? I'll be looking at the 2.0's when they come out, for sure!

tundradude · February 2005

I wonder how different in blue the 2.0 will be. There is no other bright red in the lineup, but there is indigo ink.

I really liked the xA 1.0. It was nicely done and it drove good too. Even though, I bought the xB, Toyota did a great job with the 1.0 package.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2005

of a car being really good in it's basic form but way cool in the RS form. That Absolutely Red was great! I don't know if the xA is too small for my wife and I and our two Pomeranians but there's one good way to find out!

zephyr67 · March 2005

Thanks - for the advice. Based on what you said I opened up the engine and just bent the accelerator cable bracket on top back a bit and - Problem Solved.

kernick · March 2005

Does the XA have a timing-belt or maintenance free chain? If a belt what is the recommended change interval?

tundradude · March 2005

Chain.

inharmsway · March 2005

The xa has a timing chain, and no maintenance is required.
Niels

karen5000000 · March 2005

I test drove a scion and it was priced at 14775 out the door with a manual. I found the Scion to be a bit hard to handle on the road. I really did not enjoy driving it. The price was right though and I bought it. I really am not pleased with the car. I
test drove the Chevy Aveo and I really loved that car. I have to say the Chevy Aveo is a much better handling car.

billmchale · March 2005

So Karen, why did you buy the Scion then? Its not like you couldn't have had the Aveo for less? Also I found the Scion's handling to be quite competitive for the segment though I did think the ride was a little harsh (But probably typical for such a small car).

muffin_man · March 2005

I own an Aveo, and I think it's a very competitive package with the xA. As far as the handling, they both handle fine, but I prefer the xA because it feels a little sportier. The Aveo is a softer ride - it's pretty comfortable, but not as much fun to drive.

In the end, I bought the Aveo w/ AC and an auto for $8500 before tax/license. The equivalent xA would have been about $5500 more (and would have had pw/pl, which I don't really need). And in this segment, that is a ton of money.

thewperry · March 2005

What is the word on the '06 models? I am debating if I should get my xA this month or wait a bit and get an '06 when it comes out. I do not want to wait too long but if I know when it is coming, it will make it quite a bit easier for me to have something to look forward too.

micweb · March 2005

How the heck did you get an Aveo with air and auto for that price ($8500)?

nippononly · March 2005

how on Earth? Or, related question, what was the sticker price on the car you bought, muffin man?

Would love to see Scion bring out cruise as an OEM feature for the xA, it turned me away when I first started looking that cruise wasn't available.

And a moonroof, but that I suppose I could live without at the price. I am very curious to see one of these RS 2.0s up close and personal.

fdanna · March 2005

At least the the Scion you're getting a bullet-proof quality Toyota... the Aveo is a just a Daewoo with an inefficient engine that, despite being almost the same size as the Scion's, has much worse gas mileage.

I'm waiting for cruise control before I buy one.

muffin_man · March 2005

The MSRP of my Aveo was $11,635. It's a base (now LS) which comes with A/C standard. The automatic transmission was the only option. The dealer had a $1200 discount, then gave me 2-$500 customer incentive certificates, and then I had $900 on my GM card. Total --> $8500.

fdanna - You're right, the Scion gets slightly better gas mileage (3mpg in mixed driving?), and is likely to be more reliable. But it also would have cost me about 50% more. I think the xA/xB/Echo are great cars, but you pay for the privilege.

I'm taking a chance on the Aveo, but at this price, it's not a big one.

fdanna · March 2005

Well, if Hyundai is any indicator, Korean quality has turned a major corner. You might be ok afterall :-)

muffin_man · March 2005

...and if I'm not, I'll dump this for an xA or next generation Echo.

fdanna · March 2005

Speaking of the echo, I'm dying to know what they're going to do with it!! Seems like this info is really hard to come by. Also, I don't see it as being very sporty... they dont' want to eat scion sales.

iluvmysephia1 · March 2005

the new Scion xA RS 2.0 in blue, soon to come out. That should look great if it looks even somewhat nearly as sharp as the RS 1.0 in Absolutely Red. Costs right around $15,000 plus T&L.

muffin_man · March 2005

I doubt the stock echo will be very sporty, but I believe that TRD sells a nice suspension package for it, that should be just fine.

I think they have a 'sport' version of the echo hatchback in Canada, but I don't remember what it's called. Center exhaust even. Neat little thing.

There are already some pictures out of the new Echo, looks nice. Don't know when it will be here though.

nippononly · March 2005

I don't think it is coming to the U.S. at all - Canada only.

Kirstie_H · April 2005

A magazine reporter is hoping to speak with a young Scion buyer who wouldn't be caught dead driving a Corolla or a Camry because they consider that a mom or dad-mobile. Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com with your daytime phone number and a few words about your choice no later than Tuesday, April 12, 2005.

supercarrier · April 2005

I have had my Scion since Feb 13 and have put 6000 miles on it! It runs great and people ask me all the time what kind of car is that. I am getting about 28 to 29 mpg and that is w/ alot of stopping on my routes-I now have 4 total. I bet I could get 35 on the highway. As for the Comparison between the Scion and Aveo, the Scion get a little better gas mileage, about 3 or 4 miles per gallon, has 15 inch tires, which look and handle better, has a 6 speakers Pioneer system that is great, AND come w/ Anti-lock brakes- the Aveo is optional, and the Scion has a rear anti-roll sway bar, which has saved my [non-permissible content removed] once big time-loaded w/ papers and took a corner to fast, the car kinda locked down and I was able to regain control very quickly. The ride is a little solid, but you get used to that. It has good acceleration. The only thing bad, and I use that word loosely, is that sometimes in town it will bog down slightly- shifting for 2nd to 3rd to quickly(I have an automatic). This can be fixed by giving it a little more gas or if you drive in town alot clicking the overdrive off. W/out the overdrive I was surprised at how quick it was. The Aveo is a Daewoo and the Scion is a Toyota. The Scion will last at least twice as long probably. And lastly The Scion xA looks very cool! I have people stopping me on my routes all the time. It looks well designed, the 15 tires and high ground clearance give it a crossover look. It is unlike anything on the road. The Aveo is just another mini-sedan. I am very pleased w/ my Scion xA!!!

supercarrier · April 2005

Forgot to mention, My Scion came w/ cruise- The dealer had it installed by the same people who do all there Toyota's ($400 extra) but well worth it. Total price I paid for my 2005 Scion xA w/ the cruise $14,100. They put it, by the way, under the turn signal. The only bad thing is the little green light to signal the cruise is on is hard to see in the bright daylight.

Sylvia · April 2005

You need to email this information to jfallon@edmunds.com - not post it here.

Thanks!

muffin_man · April 2005

The biggest selling points of the xA over the Aveo, to me, are the ABS (which you mentioned), and the available side air bags. (which I assume you don't have)

Fuel economy is close-enough that it's barely worth mentioning, horsepower is about the same, and the exterior and interior dimensions seem to be pretty close all around..

On the Aveo's side, it has a smaller turning circle, quite a bit more cargo room (helped by rear seats that flip and fold), and the PRICE. Because no matter how you package these two, they are economy cars. I paid $8500 for my 5-door Aveo w/ A/C and automatic. Your xA was 40% more. $5600 is a ton of money in this segment.

If the xA was sold at $8500, would you pay $5600 for ABS, power windows, power locks, a nicer stereo, and a tiny rear sway bar? I could put the power stuff, the stereo, and the sway bar on for about $500 if I really wanted them. The ABS, I admit, is a valuable addition.

What you really paid for, was almost guaranteed Toyota reliability - and I'm sure you will get it. I took a gamble - and I am hoping it will pay off.

micweb · April 2005

Thanks for the update!

supercarrier · April 2005

I will e-mail him. I will put more miles on xA than most in a very short amount of time and can give a detailed report. Thanks. By the way if I could get an Aveo for 8500 I might have but w/ the miles I am driving- 825+ per week-I really need proven reliability-not that the Aveo might not run for years, but I kinda stay away from new cars. It is the Ford Focus Curse. The Scion is based on the Echo- same motor, tranny, frame and such so the bugs have been worked out mostly. When the Focus came out- my company uses these to run misses- they had all kinds of problems. It has taken 5 years to make this a decent car. This is why I bought a Metro in 2000. The Echo had just hit America. I now know, because of you guys, that Toyotas run for years in Japan, Europe and Canada before they come here and I have a old lifting buddy who works for Toyota who told me they test cars in Japan for years before the hit American soil. I had a Toyota Supra- 87 turbo, great car- that had 200,000 miles on it and it ran perfect. Nothing had been done to it. I will probably stick w/ Toyota for the next 50 years or so... Can you go to Canada and buy a Echo hatchback and bring it back to Indiana to drive? Just wondering. Chuck

nippononly · April 2005

but to do so you will have to pay customs fees on the car to the tune of about $4000, then you will have to federalize the emissions system, which cost can vary widely depending on the car. Is a Yaris hatchback worth $20-22K? (lousy dollar buying power right now in Canada). Probably not, but maybe if you really love 'em!

Otherwise, get an xA.

iluvmysephia1 · April 2005

car we want, right nippononly? I have thought of such things before, too. My Sportage is doing so well at 95,200 miles that trading it now for a new Scion tC just seems out if the question, huh? Doesn't it? It's that Absolutely Red that does it to me! :P

nippononly · April 2005

they are gettting ready to release the next RS! Can you resist? :-)

iluvmysephia1 · April 2005

I'll either test drive one of the RS's or a regular tC or just forget about trading in altogether for a while longer yet. Now I'm leaning toward taking a test drive! :P :P

iluvmysephia1 · April 2005

I just e-mailed a dealer called Billion Automotive in Sioux Falls, SD. We're moving to Pierre, SD, once I graduate college in about a month. I just landed a job there. Interesting little town-it's SD's capitol and before driving there to interview for my job I knew basically nothing about it. I got the job though! Whoo-hoo! Now to finish college up strong! don't know if there's a Scion dealer in Rapid City, SD, that might be a few miles closer to Pierre, SD, than Billion Automotive over in Sioux Falls, SD. But Billion Automotive is one of those huge volume places..probably a smarter way to go I think. I asked about the RS 1.0 tC in that beautiful Absolutely Red and a regular 5-speed tC in that beautiful Black Cherry Pearl color. We're a one-car family(our son is grown up and moved out of the house)and our kids now are our two Pomeranians and one Norwegian Forest cat. My wife will have to be convinced it's something we need! She loves the Sportage 4x4..I do too, but...I'll...I'll just have to work on this one a bit. The tC offers so much for the money. I think that pop-up top would be cool in SD's hot summer-time daze. Crank some Foghat on that ample stereo and take a nice summery cruise with the top open. :P Yeah!

lalagimp · April 2005

Has anyone ever gotten a dash cover for this? like one made of carpet or something of the like?
I'm curious because I'm concerned about it fading for such a dark color but the design of the dash itself seems a bit difficult.

marlenelin · April 2005

We are in the market for a third vehicle, that will be be used by my husband for commuting, and my 15 year old daughter when she gets her license next year. Yesterday, we looked at the xA and the Corolla. We have had several Corolla's in the past. The Xa is quite small, although it was certainly more interesting looking than the Corolla, and even quieter than the Corolla. My concern is safety - the trunk area is so small that there isn't much area in the back of the car if rear-ended. We definitely would go with the side airbag option so I'm not as concerned about the front or the sides. The Corolla is only available with the side airbag option in the LE version which brings the cost up about $2,500 more than the xA. Would love the opinions of any of you who drive the xA. Also, we are in no rush, so is it better to buy now, or wait for the 2006 model to come out? Has anyone heard if the 2006 will differ? Thanks Marlene

lalagimp · April 2005

I've driven hatchbacks for a while and I never have referred to it as trunk space. You're not really buying a trunk; it's cargo area. If that's a safety concern then go with your gut and buy a vehicle with a trunk. It does up the cost in the other model but if that's your safety button, it will bring you piece of mind.
If you go with the xA and the dealership doesn't have a side airbag on the lot, I was told it could be at least a month because you have to order your car.

lalagimp · April 2005

http://www.safercar.gov/NCAP/Cars/3177.html

micweb · April 2005

I thoroughly enjoyed my xA in the approximately 10,000 miles I owned it. Crash tests indicate it is quite good, and with SIDE air bags will be better than most cars on the road (since side curtain air bags are so critical in any side crash due to the closeness of the head to the side of the car).

The current model is super fine. If you care about such things, Scion indicated it is going to spruce up the Scion on a more accelerated schedule because it isn't selling as fast as originally predicted. This may be a sheet metal refresh, or may be a move to the newly introduced Vitz released in Japan.

There are two schools of thinking as to when the new Vitz will make it over here: in early 2006 as a 2007 model; or on a normal 2007 release date.

However, there is also word the 2006 xA will be out in June. Unless you have an immediate need, I'd wait until at least June to see what the model changes are. I'd also Google "Vitz" so see what the 2007 xA MIGHT look like.

Finally, Honda is coming out with a competitor, the Fit or Jazz, which may be based on the first model released in Japan or on the newly released upgrade. It was rumored to have been released this spring, but now rumors are pointing to spring of 2007 (to let Honda clear out any inventory of 2005 Civics, which are being replaced by a bigger, better Civic). The Fit will be competitively priced, but may or may not have side curtain airbags. Honda's goal is "Safety for Everyone" or something like that, and they are promising side curtain airbags across the product line. Honda's plans have to be taken with grain of salt since they say they need an entry level car now that the Civic has grown to original Accord size, but on the other hand the xA's sales have been disappointing, suggesting America does not have the same love affair for small cars that Europe and Asia have....

In any case the xA is a fine car, and we only sold ours to reduce our "fleet" from four cars to three (plus my wife needed an auto tranny).

micweb · April 2005

Marlene, also read the old posts...

marlenelin · April 2005

Thanks so much for the valuable info. I will certainly do a search on the Fit. I'm glad you mentioned the redesign of the Civic. We were considering looking at a Civic Hybrid. We won't really need a third call until late next Fall when my daughter starts to drive, so we can certainly wait for the 2006 xA to see what it looks like, as well as the new Civic. I was called by a dealer yesterday and told that the xA R2.0 was just released in Blue. From the info he had it seems that it does not have a moonroof and cannot be gotten with side curtain airbags. I thought the reason that the xA R1.0 couldn't have air bags was because of the moon roof. I don't understand why side air bags on the R2 are not an option and why Toyota (er Scion) would make a car meant for the younger crowd without the option of getting them. By the way, the new R2.0 lists for $1,035 more than the basic xA. Thanks Marlene

geekay · April 2005

The Xa R 2.0 sems to be a letdown, even I had told my dealer to try and get me one but I am calling him to cancel the order. The base Xa is good enough but the Honda Fit will provide a serious choice for small hot hatch seekers.

sophocles · April 2005

Sophocles now has 130 miles on him. As a Honda owner since 1973, the last two were '84 and '91 Civic Wagons. I tried Mazda Protege, Suzuki Aerio, and Chevy Aveo. My ideal would be a Mercedes A Class which may never come to the states or the Honda Fit/Jazz which is yet to be seen here. I have been comparing the XA to the above vehicles since first seeing the XA in Nov 2003. Now that I have mine, and have read all 474 postings, I know I made the right decision. This is a city car and should be seen and evaluated as such; practical, maneuverable, relatively roomy inside for its size, and with all the latest required features. Cruise control and more power are really not necessary in this car. Despite marketing to the "tuner" crowd, I've seen a number of duffers like myself in XA's. No hassle buying, Toyota quality and service, upright seating, and efficient use of space. In my humble, aging, but knowledgable opinion, this is what urban cars should be like!

micweb · April 2005

You forgot to add "smooth" and "quiet."

ttocsland · April 2005

try here:

http://autodeadline.com/detail?source=&mid=WKA2005042030952&mime=JPG

though w/o the moonroof, I'll pass.

s.

tmac · April 2005

My daughter is considering a 2005 XA. The ride is really downright harsh, though.
I notice in the sales brochure that it's possible to replace the oem shocks and struts with a set that will provide a "more compliant ride". Anyone have any thoughts on or experience with this option? :confuse:
thanks
Tom

billmchale · April 2005

After all the stuff in the 1.0, the 2.0 is a let down, heck it is little more than appearance package. 1.0 at least had traction control and a sunroof that could not be obtained in the
basic car. Other than the color I don't see much to justify the extra cost of the 2.0 over the regular car.

--
Bill

Scion xA

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