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Scion xA

189101214

Comments

  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I am mostly a stick shift fan. And I totally agree that using a stick shift to keep the engine in the "zone" gives a real feeling of pick up and responsiveness. For example, on city streets in 3rd, you are ready to zip around. In 5th gear on the freeway at 70, you are ready to zip too - mainly because the car is geared low and the engine runs 3800 rpm at 80.

    HOWEVER I believe 0-60 times are very misleading. O-60 pretty much assumes you drop the clutch at some pretty hefty rpm and run it up to 60 with only a single shift - simply because shifting takes a LOT of time.

    In fact, with a "responsive" automatic transmission, I think an automatic is much quicker than a stick shift. For example, I don't like to over-rev, I short shift, I am easy on the clutch, and in routine driving, the grannies in their auto tranny cars beat me every time (but never around the curves!).

    Same on the freeway. The automatic in the xA can run a much more civilized rpm, because the automatic can un-lock the torque converter for more pep in a flash, or throw a downshift to 3rd a lot fast than I can shift a stick. In short, in real world driving, the automatic is almost always quicker.

    Where it falls down, is in fuel economy (in my experience, stick shifts always make their highway EPA rating, while automatics always seem to lose 3-5 mpg or more) and responsiveness in mountain driving (I'd rather lock a stick shift in third or 4th than have an automatic "hunt").

    But the new automatics are getting really good. We have a CR-V with a 5 speed that drops to 4th with only minor prodding on the accelerator (not a flat floor push) and upshifts again just as willingly and quickly once you hit your speed.

    If I had it too do over again, I would have gotten an automatic on the xA.

    But, if I had it to do over again, I would have gotten the xB. :D

    (Not all automatics are good; I have a Dodge Caravan minivan with a 4 cylinder right now, and the 4 speed automatic is slushy - shifts aren't crisp like they are on the CR-V.)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I test drove an automatic and I found it kind of boring on this type of car. Perhaps if I were doing freeway all the day long I would have gotten an automatic.

    As for handling, I ordered a rear sway bar and a shock tower brace and pumped the tires up to 38 psi. If that doesn't do it, I'm going to lower the car 20mm.
  • b3nutb3nut Member Posts: 83
    isn't too bad, I didn't push it hard when I test-drove it though. It does have a taller 4th than the 5-speed's 5th, giving it a bit better mpg on the highway. The ride is smoother than a car with a wheelbase that short has any business having. My old Rabbit was barely an inch longer in wheelbase than the xA, and was horrid in comparison. I laughed at Consumer Reports's claim that the xA's ride was choppy...bah. I really liked the front seats, once I got the position dialed in it was among the best I had tried. But alas, the look of the car didn't pass the wife test. :( I love the little xA's, they're just too cool IMHO. :shades:
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I was also amazed at CR's comment and also comments here on Edmund's that the car wasn't fast enough. So I went in for a test drive and was pleasantly surprised on both counts. No, it's not a Lexus LS430 and it's not a Mini Cooper S, but I get compliments on the ride (because people were expecting a lot worse I think) and performance is not proving to be a handicap in the real world....yes, if I pass uphill at 80 mph at 5,000 feet, I will have white knuckles, but otherwise, no....
  • b3nutb3nut Member Posts: 83
    Hehehe...you want white knuckles going uphill, my first car ('81 Rabbit deisel) crept up the steep hills on I-81 in Virginia (right lane of course) at 24mph in 2nd gear, floored. 52hp can only do so much, after all! :D The xA is loads faster than my old Rabbit was... ;)
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    You said, in part: I laughed at Consumer Reports's claim that the xA's ride was choppy

    Actually, I agree with CR - at least if they drove the same year model as the 2004 I drove (for 10,000 miles). It's quite possible Toyota retuned the shocks due to the many complaints about the ride (Toyota is good like that, responsive to "new owner survey" complaints, for example).
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I guess it's relative when you say "choppy". To me, a Suzuki Samurai is "choppy". An xA is a bit stiff but not "choppy"....which I define as a rocking motion front to back...a chopping motion that the car makes....
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    the ride because my test drive was stiff but not choppy. Let me put it this way, the way the xA performed didn't turn me off but inspired me to drive the car some more. It was fun to drive so it'll stay on my futures list. :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • b3nutb3nut Member Posts: 83
    Yup, it's indeed a fun car to drive. Toyota did a good job with these little cars. I still think the xA is more appealing than the Yaris hatch, which is cute but doesn't quite have the utility of the xA's 4 doors. Certainly can't go wrong with the Scion, being a Toyota. Solid vehicle for the money...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Has anyone tried any of the TRD accessories?
  • christineqchristineq Member Posts: 5
    I'm on hold right now... with Scion.

    I'll be in the market for a new car and I'm looking at the xA and the Honda Fit. I'm not sure whether either is capable of carrying two kayaks. Yes, I can install a roof rack but will I get blown over if a stiff wind comes up? Will there be too much drag in the vehicle and tax the engine beyond what is prudent?

    Ok, just got the answer that the total load capacity of the vehicle is 825lbs (p. 139 in the owner's manual). Two people plus two kayaks and gear is not likely to exceed that rating. Is that all I need to consider?

    Thx/Cq
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    out there? Related to automobiles and what they can carry against a strong wind force? I'm serious, in regards to the above question, yes I am. ;)

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    no sweat. Nothing is going to blow you over short of a tornado....would the car get squiggley in a very high wind hitting the car on the perpendicular? Yeah, but so would a lot of cars. Kayaks don't have a lot of freeboard.
  • barsonbarson Member Posts: 34
    I can't tell from the online site if the xA comes with any standard stereo system. Anyone know? While a CD player would be nice, the car I'm driving now only has AM/FM, and that's ok. Personally I would prefer saving the $449 on the xA's AM/FM/CD MP3 w/satellite radio option if possible.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Yeah you get the CD player standard. I didn't get the MP3 because the standard system has an AUX jack so you can play your iPod but you can't control it from the deck unless you have the MP3 option. I didn't mind controlling it from the iPod without deck display, who cares?

    I did opt for Satellite radio and I'm very pleased with that option. You don't need to buy the MP3 upgrade to get satellite radio.
  • barsonbarson Member Posts: 34
    Thanks for the response about the stereo. I'll be test driving an xA this afternoon. I test drove a Kia Spectra yesterday and was talking with the salesperson about the difference in real world MPG between manual and automatic transmissions. He said that for the Spectra, automatics typically get ~ 3 MPG better than the manuals on long commutes/highway driving. Whether this was sales bluster or not I don't know.

    I ran some numbers at home, and for a vehicle that gets around 30 MPG (a lowball estimate of real world xA mileage on the highway), getting 3 MPG better with an automatic still made the automatic more expensive than the manual at 100,000 miles, even factoring in a few hundred dollars to install a new clutch pad. I used a gas price of $2.50/gal.

    I'm wondering if this is the situation with the xA. Past posters have said that the manual transmissions are geared very low. Are automatics geared any higher and would this, plus the supposedly "finer" tuning in the transmission, save gas on the highway?

    My daily commute is short (about 15 miles) without stop and go traffic. A weekend highway trip for me might be about 250 miles. Generally I drive cars into the ground rather than trade them in. The automatic transmission in my current car fried itself a few years ago, and the repair bill was $2400. I'm leery of claims that automatic transmissions are so much better now than years ago, especially once they pass the 150,000 mile mark.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I suspect that with the higher gearing, the automatic xA might get 1 mpg more on the highway and 1-2 mpg less in the city (since you have to press the gas harder to get going).

    I'm pretty confident that the xA fuel mileage will look like this, with a 5 speed manual:

    Hard city driving only, up and down hills, idling, etc. (the worst case scenario) 28 mpg

    Combo city and FAST highway driving 31-33 mpg

    80 mph highway driving only 34 mpg

    65 mph highway driving only: 36 mpg

    55 mph highwar driving only: 37-38 mpg

    The only advantage I really see to a 5 speed manual is "fun" and the ability to dart around in traffic....
  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    Hi-Can anyone tell me how the air conditioner works in the xa? Is it adequate on a hot day?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    excellent but I haven't been in Phoenix at 110 degrees yet...only about 90 degrees.
  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    Thanks for fast response-90 temp. is a good judge-I assume you have manual-How do you think it would be in automatic? What yr. is yours? The 2006 dropped hp to 103-so I wonder if that would matter-Other than a rough ride-how do you like yours in general-Thanks
  • barsonbarson Member Posts: 34
    Test drove the xA on Saturday; liked it. The dealership experience was a disappointment. The salesman seemed uninterested and/or clueless, a sales manager tried to delay me; said "I'll be right back" and never returned. Very different experience at the Kia dealer I went to on Friday. The salesman there was enthusiastic without being pushy, and he gave me keys to a car to let me go on a second test drive all by myself. Didn't even ask to photocopy my driver's license. The impression I got at the Toyota dealer is that Scions don't generate much dealer profit with the fixed pricing system, so there's not much interest in selling them. If this attitude is common, it could hurt Scion sales in the long run.

    Back to my original MPG question. If the automatic only gets 1 MPG better than the manual at, say, 70 mph on highways, paying $800 more for the automatic doesn't save me any money. Using 36 MPG for the automatic and 35 for the manual, the difference is only $300 at $2.50 a gallon at 150,000 miles. This leaves $500 for clutch repairs when needed.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    The ride isn't rough...and I've got 38 psi air in the tires, too. But yeah, when I hit a good-sized rut, I feel it....this isn't a Lexus LS430.

    Ummm...I have a 2006 and with the manual trans. the power is more than adequate...I just put it in the left lane and go as fast as I dare....80-85....

    I think that with the automatic say going uphill at higher altitudes, you could be pressed for power, definitely....but on the flats at sea level, I don't see an issue with the automatic. You might on occasion have to shift it manual but this is good advice for any automatic car....newer automatics seem very lazy at times to downshift properly, especially if they are in OD.

    The xA feels as fast as my Alfa Romeo was (the Spider, not the 164 sedan).
  • barsonbarson Member Posts: 34
    On my xA test drive I didn't try to redline it; does anyone know what rpms the automatic shifts at? In other words, if both the manual and the automatic have the engine at 3,500 rpms at 80 mph, there's not much of a difference in highway MPG, right?

    I'm thinking of how my ex-wife's manual Subaru Forester was geared -- I remember it being geared very low with high rpms on the highway. Fifth gear was basically overdrive. I had no objections to that.
  • cdoccdoc Member Posts: 41
    I just purchased my xA Friday and my experience at the dealership was perfection. The car I wanted wasn't in stock, but they got in exactly on week later. I'm very happy with the car xA. It's small, but only on the outside. Once inside I feel like I'm driving something much bigger. There is plenty of room for four passengers, even in the back seats if someone who is not too tall is sitting in the front. I'm also surprised with how high I sit, higher up than most sedans, at about the same level as a Subaru Forester. The only disadvantages I've found are they ones all of you are pointing out: small amount of trunk space and the nagging feeling that there should be a sixth speed.

    I call it my mid-life crisis car. My wife thinks I'm crazy.
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    the Scion xa is just the kind of car America needs right now. I have one on my futures list right now along with either a Kia Rio LX sedan or a Kia Rio5. Great gas mileage and fun to drive.

    I haven't test drove the 2006 Kia Rio's yet but did test drive a 2006 Polar White Scion xA with a 5-speed tranny. Good little cruise and a very "solid" feel to the little car, really. Let me put it this way: the cars on my list get me excited about driving. That's it!

    You're right, one does not feel "down low" in a Scion xA. Rather, you're up and seeing out very well. A nice, nice rig that I remain interested in buying. It's a real battle between Kia and Scion for my next rig. For now, my 2001 Kia Sportage is plowing through eastern Idaho's winter so well that we can't see need to part with it. :D

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    can anyone tell me do you think buying the extended warranty is worth the extra money? i will try to keep the car , i put about 10 or 12,000 miles on a year . i know the first 3 years is all covered, and the power train is for about 5 . i would like some ones feed back , just trying not to miss something . thanks
  • cdoccdoc Member Posts: 41
    It depends on how much the extended warranty costs and money you have to spend. I've never purchased an extended warranty on any new car, and I've driven them over 140K miles each - one 210K miles - without anything serious going wrong. Also, it doesn't sound like you'll put that many miles on your car. The best thing to do is take care of the car: change the oil every 3-5K miles, keep up with scheduled maintenance, check your fluids regularly, drive responsibly, that sort of thing.
  • driley99driley99 Member Posts: 5
    When I was told by dealership my 15K service on xA was going to be $300, I went to my regular mechanic who did the warranty service required for MUCH less and he caught something I feel should have been found at the 5K rotation--a nail causing a slow leak.

    The manual is confusing, but I've heard that as long as I get the service done, the warranty is in effect. The manual says that too, but also says elsewhere that getting the services done outside Scion dealership "doesn't necessarily void warranty"...talk about confusing. :confuse:

    Any thoughts?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    $300 is a rip. Should have been about $160, even from a dealer. That's what they charge for the 5K in San Francisco.

    The warranty rap is giving them some wiggle room. Basically Scion would have to prove that the outside service you got caused a mechanical failure....like if your oil filter fell off in the middle of the highway or they put your brakes on backwards....
  • joey0708joey0708 Member Posts: 39
    how do you feel about using synthic oil ? i know toyota has problems with oil gelling . or do you feel changing your oil every 3000 miles would prevent gelling .
  • iluvmysephia1iluvmysephia1 Member Posts: 7,704
    just change your oil regularly and you'll be fine. Those bozo's that had trouble with their Toyota's gelling neglected their rigs and thought that, because they were Toyota's they would last...forever.

    If your driving is "severe"..i.e. short trips, lots of sandy, dusty trips, lots of uphill straining on your engine then I would change every 3,000 miles, actually.

    My Kia Sportage service manual direct from Kia says every 7,500 miles to change and I think my '99 Kia Sephia manual said the same.

    I change every 3,000-5,000 miles no matter what and my Sportage's motor is running like a top.

    2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick

  • toyotadrvrtoyotadrvr Member Posts: 3
    We bought my daughter a 2004 Scion xA with an automatic transmission. We live in Houston and during the summers experience between mid 90s to over 100 degree temps. Her AC has performed just fine. I read an article in Consumer Reports that stated that the Scion 2004 xA's have had issues with the AC however we have yet to experience that. In fact we pick up a new 2006 xA manual transmission for my wife this evening. I can't wait to throw rims, pipe, and cold air kit on it :)
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    Congratulations on your '06! I still miss my '04....

    Can you let us know what rpm the car is turning on the freeway? As I recollect, my xA manual turned 3,800 at 80 mph (not that I drove that fast).

    Also, since you have a 2004 too, will you let us know if the ride/handling of the '06 is the same or different - the '04 I owned had a VERY stiff suspension. Handled great, ride was hard (please let us know before you start modding your ride!).

    Finally, the hard plastic on the dash and doors picked up fingernail marks easily - it sort of abraded the fingernails and got streaked. It didn't get scratched, of course, it was too sturdy for that.

    Happy riding.
  • johnniconjohnnicon Member Posts: 10
    I just read the Popular Mechanics blog on the Fit-Versa-Yaris comparions. But no Scion XA. Are our babies being phased out for the Yaris. They keep talking about lack of head room in the rear of the yaris. XAs have plenty.
  • cdoccdoc Member Posts: 41
    I think the xA was left out because it has the same engine as the Yaris/Echo, so in some ways it would have been redundant. Also, the Fit, Versa, and Yaris are all new models coming out at about the same time. I sure hope they're not planning on getting rid of the Scions. Today marks one week since I picked up my '06 xA, and I'm very happy with it. Also, it was quite the hit at the dump last Saturday (it loaded up quite nicely with a week's worth of trash and recycling, all with a baby in a car seat on 40% of the backseat). All the old fogies stood around it scratching their heads, asking each other what kind of car it is. One guy thought it was the new RAV4.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm totally please with the xA for the money I paid. I think it's a total bargain, and very well made. I drive it everywhere, blinding rain, some snow even, rough rocky roads, floods at high tide, highway at 80 mph, careening down San Francisco hills, heavy traffic--the little guy is tough!

    It does need a rear sway bar and better tires though. At least I'd like that.
  • cdoccdoc Member Posts: 41
    I'm looking forward to trying it out next winter in a good ol' New England snow storm.
  • kato8kato8 Member Posts: 12
    I have a 2005 XA w/10,000 miles that I purchased in October 2004.
    I've found that fabric on the driver's seat seems to be wearing prematurely. The wear is evident on the side bolster of the driver's seat (which you rub when you get in and out of the car? I've owned 5 Toyotas with fabric seats over the past 26 years, and this is the only one showing wear on the seat.
    Has anyone experienced this problem?
  • toyotadrvrtoyotadrvr Member Posts: 3
    I had a 1993 4runner that did the exact same thing. The original seat covers wore out on the left side bottom portion of the seat. But it wasn't til the 9th year that I owned it (110,000 miles or so).
  • toyotadrvrtoyotadrvr Member Posts: 3
    Hey micweb,

    We have had my wife's new 2006 Scion xA for a few days now and I really like driving it. It is a total blast to rip around in...I mean drive in (*cough, cough). Anyway, the ride feels more civil than my daughter's 2004 yet it takes the corners rather well. It has some roll in tight turns but it seems to be more lateral tire roll than suspension. I will purchase the rims and tires before dropping it so in about 1000 miles (break in) I'll let you know how the tires change the ride. In regards to the highway ride...the engine is buzzy as it hits about 70 which turns about 3400 and 80 is around 3800 - 3900. I was very impressed with the stock shifter as it shifts smoothly and the throw isn't really that long for such an inexpensive car. It's also nice that this is the first car that we paid cash for in over 20 years of marriage. :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    I'm going to try a rear sway bar to check that body roll. As for the tires, yeah there is sidewall give. I pumped up the tires to 38 psi and that helped considerably.

    Has anyone tried an aftermarket muffler yet? Please report in!
  • librarian1librarian1 Member Posts: 7
    What a/c issues have you heard about? I have a problem with my a/c and the dealer is in a state of denial. They simply don't want to fix it. My mechanic told me that the a/c clutch does not disengage. Thanks. Ken
  • cdoccdoc Member Posts: 41
    Is your xA under warranty? If so, the dealer is required to repair it. Do you have any friends who are lawyers that could ride with you to the dealership?
  • 719b719b Member Posts: 216
    i don't believe a reputable dealer will refuse to fix anything still covered.
    i think you ran into is something they have no fix for. if your air conditioner is the same unit that is in the echo, it's just a weak unit.
    many people living in hot and humid climates complain about how inadequate the air conditioner is.
  • micwebmicweb Member Posts: 1,617
    I tried several (about 4) aftermarket mufflers on my xA and came to the conclusion that the stock muffler, with its trick "valve" that opens under high throttle, is actually the best. However, I was looking for performance, not "sound," and I know a lot of drivers like an aggressive sound (which I don't). I tried Magnaflow and various "turbo" style mufflers. The loudest seemed the most powerful, but this was purely subjective (if it's louder, it must be stronger, right?) and when I put the stock muffler back on, the car was notable more responsive (I guess it needed a little back pressure to keep the fuel charge good).

    TRD sells a muffler that they claim improves the horsepower. I never tried it, but I'd start there - if TRD makes a claim, it is more likely to be true than with other makers. But it might be louder than stock. :mad:
  • driley99driley99 Member Posts: 5
    I take mine to the Petaluma dealership (or did before 15K quote). My first 2 checkups there for 5K and 10K were about $50 each with oil coupons that came with purchase. $160 seems steep.

    Thanks for the reassurance. I have a Toyota pickup with 150K with no prob yet except a clutch replacement, so I'm hoping for same quality.
  • librarian1librarian1 Member Posts: 7
    You bet it's under warranty. The dealer's service department claims that they don't hear the a/c unit making any unusual noise. My mechanic says that it's happens infrequently, but does happen. He traced it to the a/c clutch, which does not disengage like it is suppose to. My dealer simply wants to avoid doing the rapair. As for an attorney, they just refer me to the lemon law, since there is no money in it for them. Any thoghts? I live in NYC.
  • cdoccdoc Member Posts: 41
    It sounds like your Scion dealer is jerk with some serious issues. Can you try another Scion dealer? A note from your mechanic? How about contancting someone at Scion (try the Scion.com)?

    Does anyone have any other suggestions?
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    sounds like the AC system is low on refrigerant. The clutch won't engage if system charge is marginal.
  • librarian1librarian1 Member Posts: 7
    Go to another dealer in NYC. I might as well try fixing it myself. as for Scion.com, they were no help either.
This discussion has been closed.