Jeep Wrangler

tsjay · October 2001

COLORADO???? YOU LUCKY DOG!

You gotta tell us all about it. Did you take your Jeep out there?

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

madman390 · October 2001

Hey all! How's it going?

Just wanted to check in and let everybody know that I'm still around. Colorado Springs is beautiful, and the weather has been awesome. I've actually been able to have my top down a few days here and there.

Anyway, I put together a web page with some info and some pics. Check it out if you want. It's my first effort so don't be too harsh. For some reason, the pics load very slowly, but they do load.

Here it is:

http://madman390.tripod.com/cgi-bin/home.htm

Take care all.

Madman

tsjay · October 2001

Hey, Dude, nice job on the web page. What's up with this "It's my first effort" and "don't be too harsh?" You did a great job!

It's really great to have you back in the good old USA, Mad. Once again, I thank you for your service to this great country of ours.

It does my heart good to hear about your enjoyment of your Jeep. I have to admit, though, that I am jealous because of your current location. What a great place, huh? Especially for a Jeeper.

Keep on Jeepin'! Update that web page frequently.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

maryapruitt · October 2001

Hi Madman! The web pages are great!!!
Good Job

Mary Ann

mtngal · October 2001

Great pictures! They didn't take long to load, but then I'm sitting at the office waiting for the gym to open. The office is connected by fiber optic cable, so who knows what the speed is - much faster than home where I'm never lucky enough to connect at 28! Even though there are 56k modems at each end. They say it has to do with our phone lines.

If our weather here is any indication - you might be seeing some snow soon. We're finally getting wet! Wonderful! We sure need the rain - one of my favorite spots to do a bit of easy off-roading/hiking with the dog was closed this weekend by a (luckily) small fire. Hopefully it will rain enough that us mountain dwellers won't have to bite our nails any more.

twylie · October 2001

you can't be a complete rookie with a site like that . Great photos and cool content. I'm curious if the crack in the soft top header just happened, or cracked when clamping it down. Either way, glad they got you taken care of!

-twylie

madman390 · October 2001

Thanks for all the good comments. I plan to keep the page up to date with more pics of the beautiful Colorado scenery.

I built the page using Microsoft Word, then saved it in html format. So I was concerned that some people would not be able to see it.

Twylie, I hope you don't mind the link to your page. Also, I am still working on the Links page, so if you have a personal web page you would like me to link to, you can email it to me at domino_f15@hotmail.com

Regarding the cracked header, I don't know how it broke. I did not see it happen while clamping it down, but that would make sense.

Oh well, time to take a drive.

Madman

wheelshigh · October 2001

Well unfortunately it was a company trip I was on and I didn't drive my jeep out but I wish I had. BTW I test fire apparatus and sometimes it takes me many different places. Anyway I had a great time even though I had trouble breathing at 8000ft while working. Hey Madman, I was around where you were at actually, ever hear of Evergreen or Foothills....thats where I was working, right off of interstate 70. Hey speaking of deer, one of those mule deer was grazing around one of the firehouses I was at one day and I walked up to it...then it actually came up to me and sniffed my hand I couldn't believe it. Nothing like that happens around here. Oh yeah and on the way home in Kansas I saw an sign for a exit and road was called "Jeep road"....I would have taken a picture but it was night time, oh well. BTW what has everyone been up too, anything new??? PS, I just got word I might be going out to Colorado in a few weeks again.

tsjay · October 2001

I hope your "aparatus" is working ok.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

stever · October 2001

Small world - used to visit friends in Evergreen 20+ years ago. Still, gotta go to Ouray for "real" Colorado jeeping (Engineer Mtn in Spring with tons of snow still on the road is, er, intersting).

Steve
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redkey1 · October 2001

OK, I just had an in-dash cd player put in my new jeep and it sounds great (Kenwood). However, the only problem is that there is now a rattle coming from it when I go over any bumps, has anyone else encountered this. I am wondering if it is normal b/c the new stereo is smaller than the factory and they used a kit. Is there a way to fix this or should I take it back and have them look at it where it was put in.

Also, what are the best speakers to put in the soundbar, I am assuming they are 5.25s?

goducks1 · October 2001

No, that's not normal. The shop that installed it needs to fix it. The bracket they used should not allow the stereo to move--my JVC CD/radio sure doesn't and it is smaller than the factory head.

Everybody has the favorite speakers, it depends on your price range. I have Polks in the front and the soundbar too, I forget what I paid for them, somewhere around $75 a pair. I did re-use the factory grill covers over them in the soundbar, no point in yelling to the world that I have Polks in there when I have the top down.

goducks1 · October 2001

It was valuable for me, especially for installing the front speakers. Things may have changed in the newer TJS.

http://www.visi.com/~tam/tjstereo.html

yellowman · October 2001

Anyone here tried the link above on a 2001 Wrangler? I don't want to fool too much with anything on my Jeep if it's not recommended.

yellowman

twylie · October 2001

The above link is where I started my search for info on upgrading speakers. The info is accurate for earlier TJ's but the brackets on mine were a bit different. I documented the work I did and tried to address anything that others may be interested in. If anyone has any specific questions, feel free to drop me a line.

http://www.ewylie.com/jeep/mods.htm check the stereo links.

Short version is install polyfil first, baffles behind the front speakers next, then upgrade the speakers. Factory replacement size is 4x6 up front and 5 1/4 in the soundbar. If you're willing to fab a bracket it looks like you can fit 5 1/4 up front. Anything larger that 5 1/4 in the soundbar requires cutting and drilling of the speaker openings. I have yet to replace the head unit but I would bet that a higher powered receiver would provide better sound. Just remember it's a Jeep (that's only really noisy on a good day) and your expectations will be properly set...

-twylie

jthurlow · November 2001

I have had my '99 Sport for 30 months and have driven 26,000 miles. The radiator began leaking Sunday. Leaks were along the seams where the top fits over the radiator sides.

Yesterday, my jeep dealer replaced the radiator under warranty.

From others who have written in, this failure appears fairly common. Assuming this radiator also fails in 2-3 years, is there a more reliable aftermarket radiator available?

I would rather pursue an aftermarket radiator which is better designed, than install another Mopar radiator.

J. Thurlow

goducks1 · November 2001

I wouldn't assume that because the first radiator failed the second one will also. Usually if a batch of defective parts work its way into the assembly line, and the company has do a bunch of replacements under warranty (very expensive), they make sure the supplier addresses the problem or they find a new supplier. DC doesn't want to keep doing this (assuming it's a wide-spread problem and not just a few isolated cases) so I wouldn't worry much about it failing again in 2-3 years.

If you do get to that point, there are a number of aftermarket sources for radiators; order the the quadtratec or 4wd.com catalogs.

redkey1 · November 2001

I just saw that jeep is offering 0% and a 7 year / 100K mile liited powertrain warranty.

I bought my jeep a few weeks ago, what is the normal warranty? I am at work and can't remember what it was.

Think there is any way I could still get it?

tidester · November 2001

redkey,

Think there is any way I could still get it?

I doubt it but it's worth a try! Let us know what happens!

tidester
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goducks1 · November 2001

hmm, I see you're one of the new SUV hosts, Tidester, replacing the Drewster I imagine. Are we going to be seeing you in the Jeep chat this evening so we can check you out?

goducks1 · November 2001

Speaking of which, I'd encourage all you Jeepsters and would-like-to-be Jeepsters to stop by the chat this evening. Honestly, tsjay is an interesting guy, but there is only so much he and I can say to one another and to whoever is hosting. Twylie joined us last week, but it's been kinda empty in there as of late. Tonight (Thursday), 6-7pm Pacific time.

stever · November 2001

Yeah - besides, the game won't get interesting until late in the 9th inning, long after the chat ends.

Steve
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thedude1 · November 2001

I wouldn't worry about mods too much unless you are tinkering with engine, suspension, or drivetrain parts. Make it like you want it!

tidester · November 2001

Are we going to be seeing you in the Jeep chat this evening so we can check you out?

I couldn't make it last night but I'll be checking out the chats!

tidester
Host
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bt1971 · November 2001

I just acquired a 97 Wrangler SE and would like to upgrade the wimpy little tires. Anyone know how big a tire I can put on without lifting it? If I go with a lift, are 31" tires too big? I don't want to over-tax the little 4cyl.

sfjeeps · November 2001

You will be able to fit 31" tires with just a little rubbing at full flex with a stock height TJ. You may also get a little rubbing at full turns in the front to but nothing unbearable.

goducks1 · November 2001

Go to the old TJ faq at

http://www.visi.com/~tam/tjfaq.html

In short, the answer is probably 30" tires w/o a lift. 30" tires are enough for most people and will get you over most things you are likely to encounter. Think carefully before getting a lift, they will increase stress on your drivetrain which will already be working harder to push 30" tires around.

twylie · November 2001

I almost hate to post this knowing I'll have to read another post from BamaTazz on why his auto tranny is better than our 5 speeds; HOWEVER, I wanted to let other 5 speed owners know how to be prepared just in case... The version of this that auto owners need to be prepared for is the brake interlock. Should the interlock fail, you won't be able to get the Jeep out of Park without doing something to defeat the lock (I have no idea what the process is for a Jeep; my wife's car has a slot in the housing next to the gear selector that you have to insert a screwdriver into should the brake interlock fail).

We got to do some mild off roading today (link below) while geocaching. No problems with the Jeep while we were out, but when I went to run an errand after we got home, it wouldn't start. It did this once before and it sounded like the clutch interlock wasn't working properly, but the problem quickly self corrected. Tonight it just wouldn't start, so I pulled out the manual to see how to defeat the dang thing once and for all. There it is on p130 in the manual, "put a 20amp fuse in slot number 20 behind the glovebox." I had to dig a fuse out of the kit I carry with my Exploder (they both take the small platic fuses), but after I popped it in, no problems. I took it back out and the clutch interlock seemed to be working properly again. I replaced the fuse to permanently defeat the "feature". I've always hated this safety switch on newer cars, and am glad to have it gone. As a bonus, I can now bump over or use the starter to climb steep terrain without fear of rolling backward.

<public service announcement>

If you don't want to install it, at least carry a 20A fuse for this purpose along with a note on where it goes (in case you don't carry the manual with you). Worst case you could "borrow" the one from the subwoofer or fog lights to get it started. Should your interlock decide to act up at an inopportune time, you'll be able to get it started and on your way. Note: this procedure applies to my 2001. I think 1999+ are like this; earlier TJ's may have different procedures like UNplugging a fuse or unplugging the interlock itself. Check your manual or ask the dealer.

</public service announcement>

Today was perfect in ATL. We took the day off and went over to find a geocache on the other side of town. 4WD was stated as mandatory for this trail. Actually, it was more of a clearance test than anything. We only engaged 4wd a few times, but climbing up some of the rock steps and straddling the gulleys was more of a test in picking a good line. No bruises and we feel a lot more comfortable in tight, rough terrain than we did before going to this site. This site is about 40 min from downtown, Just east of Lawrenceville. Email me if you are interested in finding it.

http://www.ewylie.com/geocaching.htm

-twylie

tidester · November 2001

twylie,

We got to do some mild off roading today (link below) while geocaching.

For the uninitiated, what exactly is geocaching?

tidester
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14er · November 2001

Tsjay said the new guys should enter how we like the new jeeps. I like Randle a lot. I've made two fun small trips to the mountains so far. Funny that both trips are to places that were just posted in here by other people in the last week. The first weekend I went up to Squaw pass as I mentioned in an earlier post and I put some pic on line of Randle on the trail. Wheelshigh I took the Evergreen parkway exit 252 from I-70 to get to this ride, which is very near to where you were on your trip to Colorado.

The second trip I took was to Garden Of The Gods in Colorado Springs and then up Rampert Range Road to county 300 and then back down Mt Herman road to Monument. This is where Madman just posted some pic of his Jeep. I loved Mt Herman road. I haven't been on it in 12 years, the last time was on a mountain bike. My wife and I loved the day, it was still warm last weekend. I have some pics and I'll update my site and post them later.

Other than the two fun trips I have been driving the Jeep to work most days, 120 miles round trip. I'm now up to 1300 miles. One question is how much gas can you put in on a fill up, or maybe the question is how empty can you let the tank get? The most gas I've put in so far is 15.8 gals. Right now I hit the gas warning light right before I get home which has been somewhere around 240 miles. The first time I stopped at the closest station, but the last time I went to one a little farther from my house. Still only needed 15.4 gals. So I think I should still have some margin since I think its supposed to have a 19 gal tank. The book said the light comes on with 2 gals left, seems more like 4 gals. Anybody have any thoughts about how far you can push it? I know my mileage should improve a little as Randle breaks in some more, but the bad thing about the altitude in Colorado is you get less mileage. Don't mind the mileage, just hate to stop at the gas station. I'm used to my F150 which has two 17 gal tanks.

14er · November 2001

Took the time to enter some new pictures from last weekend of Randle at Garden of the Gods and on Rampert Range road and Mt Herman road.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mikelehan/_wsn/page3.html

Got to go to bed now, have to get up for the CU game in Boulder tomorrow.

sfjeeps · November 2001

Slapping on taller tires will induce more stress on the drive line but there are limits for everything. The tires you can put on is limited by the axle and the height between the tire and fender. I would not recommend slapping on 35" tire on a stock height TJ with a Dana 35 axle. A TJ with a Dana 44 axle with a 3" lift will easily handle a 33" tire without stressing out the drive line. For the owners of a Dana 35 axle, I would stick to a tire no taller then a 31" if you offroad with a heavy right foot but for the smoother drivers you will be able to get by with 33" tires. The big difference is the weight of the tires and the axles. A 33" x 12.5" can weigh up to 80 LBS with a steel rim. The Dana 35 axle is a lighter duty axle and if you abuse the Dana 35 you may wind up snapping an axle and hiking back home without your ride. The Dana 44 is the heavier duty axle and will stand up to more abuse and will allow for a taller tire without problems of failure.

Adding a lift kit does very little to stress out the drive train. The only item that is a problem after getting a lift is the stock drive shaft. The stock drive shaft is very weak and uses a slip yoke design at the front. For people running taller tires this slip yoke drive shaft can fail and wind up looking like a pretzel but there are quite a few companies that makes a after market kit that will solve this problem by replacing the slip yoke desing to a CV yoke design. Another thing is the stock drive shaft will cause a drive line vibration if you get a lift but most quality kits will include a transfer case lowering kit to correct this problem.

Geocaching is a growing hobby for a lot of people and what you basically do is get coordinates for web sites and you hunt down treasures using the coordinates (a GPS really helps by some die hards will use the old compass). Before you quit your day job and invest in an exotic GPS the treasure is usually a box that will have a little trinket placed in it by the previous person that found it so your not going to wind up with DB Cooper's loot. The test is to find this "treasure box" and no the cash value. This is a great test of your nagivation abilities and your abilty to find something in the middle of nowhere. The prizes or treasure ranges from key chain fobs to candy bars and is a great way to enjoy the outdoors.

There is a web site for this and I'll post it if I find it.

tsjay · November 2001

Nice shots. Nice Jeep. Nice Jeep country. You are a lucky fella.

As far as your range bewteen fill-ups of gas, you'll just have to find out what you can count on for gas mileage, pick a safe number for useable gallons of gas in the tank after fill-up, and multiply the two. Reset your trip odometer at the time of fill-up, and then you can watch the trip odometer to know if you are getting close to running out of gas.

I am one of those nuts that checks gas mileage at every fill-up, so I reset the trip odometer every time I get gas. I figure on 18 gallons as a full tank of gas and multiply that by the lowest MPG that I expect that I should get, and this gives me a range that I can safely count on.

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

larry18 · November 2001

Thanks for the note on the clutch interlock Twylie. I am planning to order a Sahara with the 5M today. Wife and I drove a 5M sport in Ouray this summer and loved every minute of it. Hope to return with the Sahara next summer for more adventure. Any suggestions on which tow bar works best for pulling the jeep? I will consider a trailer later if all works out.

twylie · November 2001

http://www.geocaching.com Check it out. It looks to be a very family oriented activity and another great reason to get outdoors! sfjeeps hit it... it's the hunt, not the treasure. The cache yesterday had less than $20 in stuff in it, but there was something for everyone. The "rule" is take something and leave something to replace it for the next hunters. It's a good website with lots of great info.

Our GPS is the el-cheapo Garmin eTrex and it works great. You can get one for ~$110 through Amazon.com or gpscity.com

I'm trying to talk to the geocachers in GA to find and post a list of caches that are located in good offroading spots. One gent that has already replied has a really cool Land Rover that can be seen in many of his pics.

We had a blast yesterday!

-twylie

tidester · November 2001

Thanks to sfjeep and twylie for telling us what it is - and it does sound like fun!

tidester
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bamatazz · November 2001

I'll take the 5th admenment...
anything i can say will be used..

Sorry about not posting as much guys...
hopfully i will get better

Roll Tide
BT

tsjay · November 2001

You ain't very good at answering emails either!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

tsjay · November 2001

Are you getting my emails? We haven't chatted in ages, cause I never see you on AIM any more. Are you guys ok? Let me hear from you!

tsjay

Have you hugged your Jeep today?

madman390 · November 2001

Does anyone else have this problem?

I didn't mention it in the web page, but I've noticed it lately. When getting out of the Jeep, the seatbelt straps will "hang" in just the right position that the doors slam on them. There hasn't been any damage to the straps, and the doors will not shut completely on them so you can correct it right away. But it is beginning to get annoying, having to move the strap out of the way everytime we get out. Just wanted to let y'all know...

In other matters, it's funny that twylie mentioned geocaching. My wife and I have been checking it out recently, and as soon as we get a GPS, we'll be hitting the trails. There are so many "caches" around here.

14er...We are lucky to be living here. Isn't the scenery beautiful? I picked up a book that lists off-road trails in the area. It is "Guide to Colorado Backroads & 4-Wheel Drive Trails," by Charles A. Wells. He also has a second book (similar name) that lists trails in the Denver area. You should check it out. We'll be going up to Denver on Tuesday to visit my sis-in-law, and probably hit some trails while we're there. She has a Jeep too.

I'll post more pics as I get them. The weather here has been awesome. I had my top down today too, although it did get a little chilly this evening. Take care!

Madman

http://madman390.tripod.com/cgi-bin/home.htm

14er · November 2001

Thanks for the geocaching pointer Twylie. Sounds like fun. I have an older Garmen 45 GPS, sounds like I should put some new batteries in it and head on out.

Tsjay I would be happy to be able to run my down to where I add 18 Gals. Like I said I like to get as much gas at one time as I can because I hate to stop. So I would be happy if I can run it down low enough to add 18 gals at one time. So far I only ran down to 15.8, so I have some more room to drive before getting gas next time. I write down my mileage and gas info each fill up so I'll do the math next time and see if it is starting to get better MPG since Randle is a little more broken in. So far its been a little over 15 MPG, so that would give me 270 range, That would be OK because that world be over two round trips to work. Also some people have asked in here in the past about driving long commutes, mine is 120 a day and I think the Jeep in fine to commute in, just crank the tunes and hit the hwy.

Larry18 I'm also looking for a tow bar to tow my Jeep. Haven't looked real hard yet but Camping World carries a bunch of them. There is a guy at work who tows his Jeep behind his Motor home. I'm going to look him up this week and ask him. He also uses some kind of remote manual method that pushes on the breaks, I'll also ask him about that.

Madman I agree that we are very lucky to live in CO and you are right this is probably the best fall I can remember. I have the book you mention and a whole lot of other ones, both on 4-wheeling and just about anything else in Colorado, Mtn biking trails of CO, hiking trails, show shoeing etc etc. I love books. The next best thing about being outdoors here is reading about it.

Also Tsjay I did hug the Jeep today. I still love it, my wife came up with an excuse to drive it to work tomorrow so I'll be Jeep less tomorrow.

Bummer!

mtngal · November 2001

I was out of town this weekend and found lots to read about when I came back. Thanks for all the entertainment, even if I'm using my gym time to read it! Oh well, who needs to get fit anyway...

As far as my gas gauge - it has always been sort of unreliable. The light goes on when I still have close to 5 gallons left. Once the light came on about a half mile after the Castaic exit on the freeway, with the next gas 30 miles and 3,000 feet higher. I could have gone to the next exit (8 miles) and turned around, but decided to give it a try (and I hated to lose that much time). I did slow down to around 60, but easily made it all the way up past Gorman to Frazier Park. I only put just under 17 gal. as I remember. That convinced me that I could go a long way on a highway after the light goes on.

As a general rule, I plan on 280 miles per tank, and have gotten over 300 a number of times.

I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one around with a crazy commute, though I would rather have it in Colorado than here in CA. The house is 76 miles from work, and 5,800 feet above it. So I go from close to 6,000 feet to sea level and back again each day. Most of the commute is highway (work isn't far from the freeway), but going home the first 20 miles or so are rush hour slow/stop. In the winter I will go from 20 degrees (home) to 65 degrees (work) in an hour. We have manual trannys - I got shy of automatics when we went through 2 of them in one year, and all the ads for cars for sale up here either say "new tranny" or "needs tranny work." I wish I could talk a car manufacturer to let me test drive their vehicles for a year or 2. Then you would really know what they can hold up to! By the way, my '98 Wrangler has just over 90,000 miles on it, and it does great as either an occasional/winter car or our only vehicle (it has been both). We get a pretty consistent 18-20 miles per gallon. Unfortunately, with gas prices climbing, we needed something that gets better gas mileage, so we are now commuting in a very uncomfortable Tacoma that gets better gas mileage. I'll be so glad when the Wrangler is paid off so I can get rid of the hated Taco!

redkey1 · November 2001

My '02 TJ w/ 650 mi on it has developed a rattle in the dash. The sound, sounds like a piece of plastic hitting against another plastic piece. It is very annoying and seems to be coming from behind where the ashtray is located. I pulled out the glovebox and fished around and couldn't really feel anything loose. I thought i had found the problem in a loose stereo wire, but i held on to that while driving and it still occured.

Any ideas?

bamatazz · November 2001

hey tom.
I here...been having puter problems lately..
Sorry guys I havent been in chat lately..
been busy around here
hey, A new Best Buy opened here in Birmingham..
can I use your CC?...
Take care guys..

Keep Jeepin
BT

goducks1 · November 2001

This past weekend we got the first rain in San Diego since I moved here in July , and of course I had the left the top down. Everything is soaked; I drove to work this morning with a doubled-up beach towel on top of the driver's seat. It's been a while since I have had to do that. I parked it in a sunny spot outside the office, guess we'll see how quickly those fabric seats can dry out...

14er · November 2001

Mtngal I guess I won't complain about my commute compared to yours. For the most part I am going against traffic. I drive 60 miles but it almost always only takes 55 min. I can either go Interstate or I can go back road. Usually I take the back road in the morning and the interstate home, breaks things up. If it snows I work from home (or go skiing).

Thanks for the info on your gas expierence. Sounds like I can at least make 2 trips with out worrying about running out of gas.

Took the soft top off (came with dual tops) and found the only problem with the Jeep so far. It says in the manual not to tighten the screws too much when you put it back on. In my case the two screws on the passenger side were already stripped. Had to take the set screw out and just leave the plastic insert in. Have to take it back to get new ones. I was kind of sorry I didn't have any time to just run around with the soft top, but it is starting to get cold (we have been real lucky so far that it has stayed so warm).

I get the Jeep back from my wife tomorrow.

yellowman · November 2001

Hey there

I haven't experienced what you're describing, but I do notice a squeeking sound every now and then when I go over bumps in the road. It bugged me at first, but then I remembered that I had to be ready for a noisy, bumpy ride when I got my Jeep and the sounds have actually been far less than I originally expected so far. The squeeking is sort of intermittent, and I haven't figured out what it is yet, but I think it might have something to do with the sun visors.

Incidentally, with the recent Southern California rains, my Jeep is dirtier than it's EVER been! I can't wait to get a full wash and hand wax in the next day or two!

yellowman

rksolink · November 2001

Something that's worked well for me in storing my zip out windows in my Jeep since my rear seat is seldom installed. Get a large beach towel and lay it out flat. Lay one window on it across the bottom and fold the towel over it. Then lay the other window on top of the folded over towel so there is a layer of towel between them. I just roll up the layers and nothing but towel touches either window. Easily fits in my "hide-a-trunk" to prevent theft or vandalism.
In south Florida, we can have sudden weather changes and this way my windows are handy at any time. Main thing is after 2 years of using this method, my windows are as scratch-free as new. Occasional cleaning with water and soft cloths, then light application of Pledge to both sides helps to keep them clean and flexible.

mtngal · November 2001

I can tell you haven't had much free time if your jeep is dirtier now with that little bit of rain we had over the weekend. You need to take some time and explore some dirt roads. There's still time to explore some of the higher roads before they close them for the winter, and then there's the ones that are lower and stay open all year. There's a really nice road that goes from Little Tujunga Road over to the Angeles Forest Road. You can do it in a couple of hours and still enjoy the views. Don't even need 4WD unless its wet (one place can be slippery when wet). Take an afternoon or morning off and enjoy it! Get it REALLY dirty before you wash it!

mjart · November 2001

Madman390,
Yes! I own a 99 Sahara, and there have been many times when the driver's side seat belt did not fully retract and I wound up accidentally slamming the door against the strap! Fortunately, it hasn't happened in a while, and that's the only problem I've had with the Jeep so far (almost 80,000 miles on it now). Just wanted to let you know that you're not the only one having that problem.

Jeep Wrangler

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