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Pontiac GTO

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Comments

  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    I've been checking the local paper for the last couple of weeks and the ads for the local GM dealers have really gotten skimpy. Not a mention of the GTO at all and usually just the Cobalt and a Denali or something and then used cars. Are they trying to save money? Are GM cars selling themselves?
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    While we have a higher standard of living, they have better working conditions. So it's a tradeoff. I agree it's a cultural thing. I think we had it too good for too long. And now we have to compete and we are not doing a good job of it.
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Member Posts: 291
    I've noticed the same thing here in St. Louis. They have big automotive sections in the paper on Wednesdays and Sundays. At the beginning of the year they had ads saying "GTOs arriving daily" or "X cars available" with no pricing info. The last 6 weeks or so, not even a mention of the car. Plenty of ads for the G6 and Solstice though! Of course if gmbuypower is close to correct, the same dozen or so cars in the area have been available since early February. They just aren't moving.

    I see that GM has extended the '05 order window into April. I wonder if that reflects a manufacturing/distribution problem or that they are just hoping to round-up more firm sales.
  • sakinoshsakinosh Member Posts: 34
    Yeah, I think I've only seen ONE printed ad in any magazine too...and it was "Stuff" or "Maxim"...one of those. It's just disappointing, but also appealing since I haven't taken the dive yet, but am planning on it. The less people who buy this car, the better price I'll get it for. And one might say, "but then your resale value will suck" - true - but that only matters if I SELL it...and I won't!

    I'm just making sure to charge up my GM card and pay it off so I can get the GM points and get my $1000 bonus ca$h when the time is right! ;)
  • gottabgtogottabgto Member Posts: 95
    'I picked mine up last weekend. I live in the Bay Area'

    Congrats on the new car!
    I was wondering if you could share which dealer you went thru and what kind of deal you were able to get. I am also in the Bay Area and am looking at the various dealers. They don't seem to be too willing to negotiate.
    Tia for any info you can share.
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    I got my '04 at Colma GM. Price was $500 over invoice. Unfortunately, supplies of the '05 are a bit tighter so they may or may not be willing to deal.
  • coresellercoreseller Member Posts: 40
    I am looking to possibly swap out the stock speakers in search of better ones. I've ran a search in this forum and see where alot of guys suggest or have done just that. My question is what did they use, which speakers were replaced, what was the cost and how did it affect the sound quality? Was the sub amp left, removed or replaced? I got my 04 over the holidays and already have 13k on it, no problems so far. I plan on driving it to about 200k or so and would like to upgrade the audio but I don't want to remove the head unit since I use the wheel mounted controls. Any help / advice would be appreciated.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I just received yesterday my 4 replacement speakers from Crutchfield - Kenwood Excelons (forget the model number, they were originally $150/pair and I got them on closeout for $70/pair). There are 2 in the doors and 2 in the rear panels (next to the seats). They are 6.5's and supposedly fit based upon posts and disassembly instructions on another forum. Obviously, the doors have to be disassembled to exchange the fronts, and the back seats have to be removed (supposedly not too hard) to get the rear panels out to exchange the rears. I'm told it's about an hour for each of the doors and about an hour for the back speakers.

    I've seen pics of the stock paper speakers and they look incredibly cheap. Folks who have replaced them rave about the lack of distortion. I've got stuff going on this weekend and probably won't get them installed now, but will by next weekend. Also going to install an XM Roady/RF modulator into the car (I'll put the antenna on the rear shelf, inside the car)...

    --Robert
  • gottabgtogottabgto Member Posts: 95
    Colma, eh?
    That's fairly close, I'll check them out.
    Thanks alot.
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    I live in San Jose and of the two dealers here, one was asking a $10K dealer markup and the wanted $4K. I'd about given up on a GTO at that point until I heard about the deal at Colma GMC. And the rest is history. Except that now I want an '05.
  • gottabgtogottabgto Member Posts: 95
    One of the San Jose dealers offered me an 05 for $32,562 + fees last week.
    I'm thinking in June they may be willing to come down a little but I wonder...
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    That's about right considering there is a $1K rebate right now. At least there isn't a dealer markup on it.
  • sinepmansinepman Member Posts: 137
    I love the fact that this car has such a stealthy look to it. I REALLY like the conservative styling and the good build quality. Here's my wish list for '06.

    Five speed auto (with manu-matic)- Why does GM still insist on 4spd autos for their cars?????
    Stability control (so I can at least try to drive it in winter)

    This vehicle in my opinion is WAY under rated and is a steal at the current asking price. Good luck with your cars folks!!!
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    So far, we know Yellow Jacket and Midnight Blue Metallic colors are history - there's a fusion orange and some kind of brownish red color coming.

    Insiders on another discussion board hinted at some minor interior changes, but that may be it. I know GM is working on 6-speed automatics, in combination with Ford. Don't know if you'd see that, or VSC, in the current bodystyle - would have had both in the next-generation, if it hadn't been killed/delayed...

    I truly believe that the GTO is one of the best cars that GM sells in North America. Critics would rave about the car if it was totally debadged/they didn't know it was sold by GM. If they just got people to test-drive them, or marketed them at all (don't you just love how they play the GTO exhaust sound when advertising the G6?), they'd sell...

    Doesn't matter to me. I have mine!

    --Robert
  • jontyreesjontyrees Member Posts: 160
    I did mine a couple of months ago. Used some fairly cheap coaxial Blaupunkts on sale on the 'net, ($70 for 2 pairs, shipped). Sounds pretty good now, no bad distortion, but you have to adjust the settings to take advantage of the switch.

    The replacement speakers will be 4ohm, (probably), vs the 2ohm stock speakers, soooo......You will lose some volume at any given volume setting on the head unit. The new speakers are probably also a little harder to push than the very flimsy paper stockers. No problem - just turn it up louder to compensate. Where your old stock speakers would have distorted at around 45+ on the head unit, you should now be ok beacause the speakers are more robust, and the HU will not be outputting as much current, therefore not hitting clipping from the output stage as easily.

    Unless you're a hip-hopping basshead, you should also be ok with the stock subs in the rear parcel shelf if you reach into the drivers side of the trunk, pull back the carpet a little at the very back edge of the car, reach in and find the box shaped sub amp, reach around the back of it, (toward the front of the car), find a little circular flat shaped knob on the forward facing side, and twist it clockwise from it's detent at 50% to about 75-80%. That's the gain on your sub amp, and it helps the bass a lot. I haven't had a problem with the little subs bottoming out or the amp going into protection mode.

    I also disengaged the volume limiter and speed sensitive volume thingy, and do not use any of the horrible canned eq settings. My bass and treble controls are both up +1.

    The front doors took less than an hour each, but the back side panels were a pain to get into. Rear seats had to come out, panels had to come off, trim along the bottom of the doors came off. Front door panels are screwed on, which is great as it prevents the inevitable breakage of the snaps that most manufacturers use.

    All-in-all, it sounds pretty good now for very little cash outlay, and I can use the steering wheel controls and the in-dash changer. I'm happy.
  • gunitgunit Member Posts: 469
    hammen2 writes...... (don't you just love how they play the GTO exhaust sound when advertising the G6?)......

    I get a laugh out of that too when they start the G6 in the commericials. G6 does NOT sound like that. Kind of sounds like my GTO. Got my Impulse Blue 2005 GTO Automatic and I love it.
  • chaser76xchaser76x Member Posts: 1
    I want a GTO 6 speed - dont care about the color as long as it isnt that impulse blue or yellow.... what number should I throw at them? I mean for gods sake they've been sitting on same 3 for like a month!!!!
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    '04 or '05?
  • ironwillironwill Member Posts: 2
    Im thinking about getting the gto and i keep hearing bad stuff anout it and good stuff about the GTO.
    So what don't you like about the GTO and what do you like
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Likes:
    Power, comfort, handling, interior, exhaust sound, stealth, element of suprise :-)

    Dislikes:
    stock speakers are junk. Trunk is smallish (but big enough for me, so far). No auto-dimming mirror w/temp. Sssslllllloooooowwwww seat motor (back seat access).

    Most of the people griping about the GTO are either Mustang owners :cry: , or classic Pontiac guys who can't get over that the car doesn't look like their '66/'69/'71 et. al. :mad: . Virtually all of them have never test-driven the car - something you should do, and then decide. Owners really seem to love their cars. I was hooked from the first test-drive...
  • lordgearlordgear Member Posts: 1
    I work for the railroad and when I talked to the salesman, he was a little to happy to gove me the suplier discount, which is close to $1600.00 off the sticker. It made me think I could do better. ;)
  • oldboboldbob Member Posts: 41
    I paid $1500 below sticker with good financing in Feb. With current financing you should get $2500 below sticker. My dealer on LI NY started with 11 2005s and now has 4 left. They have sold some, anyway.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I wouldn't start with sticker, I'd start with invoice. You should be able to get the invoice pricing from here on Edmunds. Start at invoice plus some amount ($200-$500), then factor in current incentives (also available on Edmunds, or on GMBuyPower). If you know for sure you're looking for a specific color and/or tranny combo, use GMBuyPower to search for nearby dealerships that have the car you want. Just be aware that BuyPower lists a car on a dealer's lot when it ships, so the car may not be there yet.

    Today and tomorrow is a REALLY good time to car-shop, since it's the end of the month. They will do anything and everything to get you sold this month...

    I think it's pretty obvious at this point that there's no huge stockpile of '05's - kind of the opposite (they are hard to find here in the Milwaukee area). I really don't think we'll see the fire-sales like we saw on the '04's. And, this is why I don't think you'll do much better than $500 over invoice, before incentives...

    --Robert
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Member Posts: 291
    Where are all the '05s? Back on 4/1 there were about 1800 here in the US. If they are making 12000, and they've sold about 2000, less the 1800 in inventory, means about 8000 to be made by the last day of production on 6/10. That's only 6 weeks from now.

    Are they controlling inventory to help support price? Are they making fewer than 12K? Production problems? Shipping problems?

    Robert, any ideas?
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I have wondered the same thing - if they are just slow building the cars, or if they're staging them in Benecia. I think it's the former - haven't heard too many reports of boats coming in. Somewhere there's a Benecia webcam that shows the receiving port - someone posted screen caps of GTO's getting offloaded :-)

    I'm too lazy to look it up - haven't they sold somewhere closer to 2500 '05's through the end of March (from intial deliveries in mid-January, that's 2 1/2 months)?

    If you follow the "other site" you will see that LFP posted that production will continue into July. Order cutoff was extended to yesterday (4/28) - from the original 3/16 date. LFP also claims that dealers are trying to order more than they can produce. I am really suspecting either production issues, or perhaps a bias to building fewer GTO's (and thus more Monaros and export Chevy Lumina SS coupes) early in the production season, with more GTO's coming online now (when 1/2 of the U.S. leaves winter's grasp - okay, except Michigan and Ohio :-).

    Don't underestimate the potential popularity of the 18" wheel option for $495. Due to supplier constraints, they couldn't build GTOs with the factory 18's until March (but they could Monaros?). This might have skewed the production mix as well.

    Just my guess,

    --Robert
  • bigdaddycoatsbigdaddycoats Member Posts: 1,058
    I wonder if 12,000 was the amount GM plans to sell in calender year 2005, not the number of 2005 model GTOs they hope to sell. That would make sense.
  • tripowergtotripowergto Member Posts: 83
    I love almost everything about my new GTO except the slooooowww seat motor. It would have been so much better if it was just a manual operation. My daughter and wife constantly give me grief about it even though they like the car otherwise. The rear seat area is very spacious and comfortable but it's truly difficult to get back there. My 02 Formula has hardly any room in the back seat but at least it's easy to get back there.

    Otherwise, this is easily the best GM vehicle I have EVER owned!! :D
  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    You might want to drop into the Pontiac GTO: Prices Paid and Buying Experience forum to get more advice about this.

    ClaireS

    MODERATOR

    Need help getting around? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review

  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    I don't think anyone has ever mentioned the door locks. Clunk when they lock, clunk when they unlock. Unsightly too. All in all though, the pluses outweigh the minuses.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    All in all though, the pluses outweigh the minuses.

    By far! Complaining about these issues on the GTO is like complaining about a zit on Halle Berry's face...
  • jpstax1jpstax1 Member Posts: 197
    Thanks for the link! Did you know that Edmunds finally wrote a very good article on the history of the GTO. Here's the link:

    http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/generations/articles/101696/article.html

    I talked with a couple of guys who brought their old "goats" to a recent car show. They really like the '05 with its split dual exhaust and functional hood scoops. One guy said he test drove a blue one last week and was very impressed with the LS2 engine. He said he was considering selling his blue '66 and using the money for a down payment.
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    check here

    New GTO.R

    I wish they would use the body and wheel colors from the GTO race car shown at last year's SEMA show.

    check here

    GTO race car
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    Interesting analogy.
  • sputterguysputterguy Member Posts: 383
    My second test drive was with a Quicksilver 6-speed. Just like my '04 but with all that extra stuff. Driving around the streets of San Francisco in a 400hp GTO is, well, hellafun. It seemed though that the throttle response was a slow. The first car I drove was so precise and smooth it made me want to trade in my '04 on it. e I wouldn't spend the extra money on for this one.

    Has anyone experienced any problems with the electronic throttle? Hey gunit! You've been a little quiet lately. Have you had any problems?
  • hoosierboyhoosierboy Member Posts: 25
    Looking for some pros/cons on a near future purchase. I have found a few 2004 autos in colors that I like. Obviously the price will probably be around 25K vs. 32K or so for a 2005. My question to you all is this: is it worth it to spring for the 2005? I am notorious for only keeping a car for 2 or 3 years max before I trade. For those of you who have "real world experience" with the model year differences, what do you all think is the best route? Thanks for all of your help in advance.
    :D
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    If you traditionally have been selling or trading your vehicles every 2-3 years, buying the '04 is a no-brainer. It costs less, therefore it will depreciate less than a brand-spanking-new '05. If you test-drive both and are happy with the '04, then go for the less-expensive car.

    As you probably know, the major differences include the 400hp LS2 versus the 350 hp LS1; the hood scoops; bigger, better brakes; drive-by-wire (no throttle cable); upgraded automatic tranny; dead pedal; revised rear fascia with separated dual exhausts; Midnight Blue Metallic and Cyclone Grey Metallic colors, replacing Cosmos Purple Metallic and Barbados Blue, respectively.

    The 2004's were being built into October over in Australia - last 52 came on a boat which left Australia in early November (along with the first 700 or so '05's). Check the last 6 digits of the VIN number - I've seen GTO's start at 175xxx and end up around 316xxx (my July build is 301xxx). If you have a later (>250xxx VIN), most of the Technical Service Bulletins out on the '04's don't apply to you.

    Hope this helps,

    --Robert
  • hoosierboyhoosierboy Member Posts: 25
    Thanks for the info. I know the engine has been upgraded by 50HP... In real world apps, is this a make it or break it deal? What about the brakes and drive by wire system? Cosmetically, I am sure there are things that can be done to improve the looks of the '04's. My goal is to "play around" with the car... maybe some bolt on upgrades and that will be it. As far as color goes, I have found a Quicksilver and a Phantom Black (both autos which is what I want). The Cyclone grey is nice, but not a must have color for me. I guess my main issue is will I miss that 50 HP if I go with the '04? I am not looking to race, but want to make sure I know all of the pros and cons before I buy. :P
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I haven't driven an '05, so I can't comment on the differences. 350 hp is enough for me on a daily basis - I don't race or take my car to the track. Were I to do so, I know of several upgrades (ranging from a K&N intake to long-tube headers to catback exhaust systems to heads/cam to supercharger). Since the '04 uses the LS1 engine used in hundreds of thousands of Corvettes and F-bodies, there are tons of aftermarket upgrade parts. Assuming 25k + TTL for the '04, versus 31-32k + TTL for the '05, I'm sure you could put enough performance into the '04 to make it surpass the '05, and still have money left over, for example. I'm sure LS2 mods aplenty will be out "soon" but right now the cupboard is pretty bare compared to the LS1 mods.

    Regarding brakes, one noticeable improvement for the '04's is to replace the front brake pads with those from a C5 Corvette (they fit). I personally haven't noticed any braking issues in normal day-to-day driving, but those who run the 1/4 or especially autocross comment on fading and stopping distances. I will probably put the '05 pads on whenever I have to change mine.

    Since you're looking at an auto, the upgraded and recalibrated tranny on the '05 may be a noticeable improvement. However, there are trans kits, stall converters, and custom tuning that can improve the '04.

    The drive-by-wire system replaces the actual cable going from the gas pedal to the throttle. This is good in that it helps eliminate the "stuck accelerator pedal" issue (almost drove my Aurora through the garage into the house one day when the cable stuck :-) but it can reduce throttle response/performance by introducing lag. I don't know if it's a positive or a negative.

    Also, be aware that there are still a few "2004 Sport Appearance Package" kits around. This consists of the '05 hood, the autocross grilles (inset, kind of like Grand Am/old GTO grilles) and the "autocross spoiler" (it's more square and looks like an old Judge spoiler). These kits were designed for dealers who had '04's on the lots when the '05's showed up - only dealers never read their bulletins, so dealers were blowing out these kits for $550-$600. I bought one (sold off the grilles and spoiler) and plan to put the '05 hood on when I can find the $$$ to get it painted. If you really like the '05 hood, maybe you can work the SAP into your deal, if they can still find one from their ADI?

    My advice, check the VINs on the cars, make sure the tire pressure is reduced to 35 psi, and the spring clips (shipping materials) removed from either the '04's or '05's, then take them for a spin. If you like the '04, considering the cost savings, I'd go for it...

    --Robert
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Ordered the SAP hood from a Pontiac dealer in Doylestown, PA.
    They are parting out the SAP packages and i got the hood for $449 + 140 shipping.
    My local dealer painted it. Had to do some bodywork on the hood + their first paint application was bad.
    I did not have them blend the fenders, and it looks very good.
    I have $1K in the hood so far.

    For those of you who don't know the SAP hood is the same as the '05.

    The scoop grilles were missing, but they are being shipped.
    The car looks incredible and really turns heads.
    The GTO :) should have come with this hood from the start.
    It is great driving down the street and seeing those two scoop bulges.

    Next is caps for my spoiler delete and probably baer brakes.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    ...have you tried the C5 brake pads on the front? I understand they are a direct fit, and help improve brake feel/performance. I've no complaints about my car's brake performance, though, with only 1064 miles on it, maybe that's early. I understand, from those who autocross or take the GTO to the track, that high-speed stops and fade become issues... don't get to drive like that too much :-)

    I bought my SAP kit for $700 locally (cheaper than/less riskier than shipping), versus $550 + shipping from the other guys, and sold off the autocross grilles and spoiler. Have a friend of a friend who owns an auto shop and is an Aussie, so, as soon as I come up with $350, he'll paint my hood (don't want them to blend the fenders - I understand the Cosmos Purple is a bear to paint). Maybe in time for the GTO Nationals in St. Louis in late June...

    --Robert
  • danmandanman Member Posts: 16
    Actually the Corvette is GM's best money maker other then it's truck and SUV lines. Back in 1997 when the C5 came out, GM was making $4,500 or 14% profit on each one sold, sold around 20,000+ then.
  • midwesttradermidwesttrader Member Posts: 291
    April = 1111
    YTD = 4372

    That's 264 less cars than last month. '04s still available, '05s seem to be in short supply in certain areas.

    Overall GM truck sales down 17% and car sales up 7.5%. Pontiac beat Buick easily for the month.
  • ClairesClaires Member Posts: 1,222
    This discussion deals with the features and attributes of the Pontiac GTO. If you want to discuss GM and its sales, please take it to the News & Views forum.

    Claire

    MODERATOR

    Need help getting around? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

    Tell everyone about your buying experience: Write a Dealer Review

  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Hi Claire,

    Not being a smart-you-know-what, but midwesttrader posted the GTO's sales figures for last month and year-to-date (and then a last sentence about GM in general). Are both of these issues considered off-topic here? I can see why the latter would be, but I think there's general interest by GTO owners and potential owners about how well the car is selling. Doesn't seem to fit the "Prices Paid and Buying Experiences" thread, either.

    Just my 2 cents,

    --Robert
  • cccompsoncccompson Member Posts: 2,382
    I, for one, am following the GTO market closely and am most grateful to see GTO sales figures posted as they affect market value and the price I might expect to pay. It is rather hard to see how they are not properly in a discussion about the vehicle. If they are elsewhere on edmunds, I would never see them.

    Also, starting a separate topic is not a good option as it likely would lock every month!
  • SylviaSylvia Member Posts: 1,636
    The point is not to go off and derail the discussion into a who-is-selling-more-than-who discussion. We have plenty of those in News & Views. Typically, that tends to be what happens when sales numbers in general get posted.

    Thanks!
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    Since the new GTO is really an Australian Holden coupe, which is no bad thing, I thought I would post this video of a Holden HSV (Holden's performance division) sedan. I think it is from 2003, because HSVs were upgraded to the LS2 last fall and this one has an LS1.

    Holden HSV sedan going sideways

    Here is Holden's website

    http://www.hsv.com.au/index_new.html
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Just to clarify, HSV (Holden Special Vehicles) is not Holden. Holden may have some ownership interest in HSV, but it's run as a completely seperate company. Partially-completed Holdens are built and shipped to HSV, where they are tweaked - kind of like Callaway or Lingenfelter, which take Corvettes and produced heavily-modified versions of them.

    Holden's web site:
    http://www.holden.com.au

    HSV's web site:
    http://www.hsv.com.au

    HSV plant tour - go to HSV's web site, click on Multimedia, click on VR Tours (can't directly link due to frames, gak).

    FYI,

    --Robert
  • xkssxkss Member Posts: 722
    Isn't HSV like BMW M and AMG?
This discussion has been closed.