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Pontiac GTO
1934auburn
Member Posts: 3
Pontiac is on the right track with going retro (but it's not as if it's a new idea either). However, the 2004 GTO (an import rebadged for the American market) is definitely NOT what they should have done to a car that truly has become an icon of American Muscle Car culture.
I would jump at the chance to own an original 1970 "Goat," and I'd also jump at the chance to own a 2004 GTO that had more than just the name in common with its predecesor.
This thing looks like a late 1980's Ford Probe or a 1999 Acura Integra.
Pontiac needs to look to Chrysler (PT Cruiser, Prowler) or Ford (Mustang) for inspiration for an homage to a former high point.
I don't care how well it handles or how fast it is - the 2004 Pontiac GTO may be the most boring looking vehicle on the road when it comes out!
I would jump at the chance to own an original 1970 "Goat," and I'd also jump at the chance to own a 2004 GTO that had more than just the name in common with its predecesor.
This thing looks like a late 1980's Ford Probe or a 1999 Acura Integra.
Pontiac needs to look to Chrysler (PT Cruiser, Prowler) or Ford (Mustang) for inspiration for an homage to a former high point.
I don't care how well it handles or how fast it is - the 2004 Pontiac GTO may be the most boring looking vehicle on the road when it comes out!
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Comments
Would you rather it have the muscular look of the Mercury Marauder without the muscle to back it up?
The Marauder is not exactly slow once they get broken in , but a little more low end would be nice.
I would prefer a car that is a little more low key and has a lot of engine.
The GTO fits.
2. Don't want to mod the car and I just don't love the looks. It's not bad; it just doesn't excite me.
3. You're right, at the new price, it's a great deal. When I was looking, it was just coming out and they wante MSRP or more.
Let's not kid ourselves, though, the original Goats were just slightly glitzier Tempests with big engines. If GM wanted to take the cheap approach to reviving the GTO they'd have dropped a supercharged 3800 engine out of the Bonneville/Grand Prix GTP into a Grand Am, which would be the closest modern equivalent. the original GTO formula (big car engine in intermediate car). They've certainly considered it (I remember a previous-generation Grand Am running around in the early 90s with a hotted-up 3.4L OHV minivan V-6 and ugly orange paint...), so we may at least be grateful that the 2004 GTO is a V-8 powered rear-driver.
Without getting into the relative merits of Mustang, PT Cruiser, and Prowler (IMO the PT Cruiser's only merit is that it's cheap, the Prowler has no merits) the current track record of trendy shapes is troublesome.
BMW Z3 sales dropped off fairly precipitously after a couple years and the coupe (as wonderful as the M Coupe - the Flying Florsheim - was to drive) never sold. New Beetle sales have gone through the floor. Don't know how the PT Cruiser is doing, it's a cheap Neon wagon so maybe there's some fleet buyers. The Thunderbird has nose-dived (deservedly so, it's boring as hell.) And so forth.
Having been in and around Monaros, all I can say is that it looks better than a 3-series Bimmer, far better than anything that GM has put out in the US in the past ten-plus years excepting MAYBE the C5. It's got the right proportions, unlike the old long-nose F-body and any of the FWD junk. It's a clean shape, one that will hold up well over time, unlike oddities like the CTS. And the only US GM product that can top it for assembly and material quality would be the DTS.
Most importantly for me, it's a real car. It's got the drive wheels in back, and the front wheels pushed out to the corners for decent weight distribution. The suspension is very good - okay, it's a late-'80s Opel chassis with some updates, so it's not quite at E-class Benz level, but it's still leagues better than anything GM does in the US short of the C5 and CTS. It's got a real engine, a real drivetrain, real tires. The seats (at least what it gets in Australia) fit six-foot-plus drivers nicely.
I'd just as soon see it sold as a Holden Monaro, because Pontiac's spent most of the past thirty years trashing its own brand, but in any real measure of performance, stock-to-stock, it'd beat any old GTO ever built. Take a '64 GTO in *real* factory trim (not Wangers-tweaked magazine-test trim) on *stock* tires (not "cheater" slicks) with *stock* shocks (not air shocks with the right-rear pumped up) and you were looking at maybe a low-fifteens quarter, never mind ever trying to stop or turn.
I write for a national business publication and I'm writing a story about Pontiac. I'd like to get some of your views on the GTO and Pontiac. I would interview you by telephone and you would have to be willing to be quoted by name. I'll tell you who I am and which publication. You'll recognize the publication. If you can help, I'd be grateful. Send me an email with your contact info to carguy147@hotmail.com
-- Car Guy
I don't feel especially _negative_ about the neo-GTO (it's certainly a vastly better effort than the Mercury Marauder, or the pale latter-day 442s), although it doesn't strike me as the second coming in terms of style or image, which I get the feeling is what GM was hoping.
That said, I like the looks of it. But where it really is a nice step up is that it has an interior you actually want to be in. When was the last time you could say that about any Pontiac?
Go look at a 1964 GTO. It was a plain old notchback Tempest with a big engine. It stayed that way pretty much to the end - it was always just a tarted-up version of the standard Pontiac intermediate. Of course, by the end the rouge and lipstick got pretty thick, but it was still the same basic Tempest/Le Mans/whatever two-door. It also looked a lot like the Olds 442, the Malibu SS, the Buick GS/GSX etc. because they all had the same basic body anyway.
Except, of course, for the mid '70s when they briefly stuck a GTO badge on a fat-bumpered Ventura compact.
As for the current one, okay, the shape is mid '90s. I, for one, consider that a whole lot better than the silly prison-guard-tower CTS, the slice-and-dice BMW Z4 and pushmi-pullyu 7-series, etc.
There's a *lot* of really bad car shapes out there right now, and the GTO/Monaro may not be great but it's at least good, and there's *nothing* else in production at GM (except the Opel Speedster and Corvette) that's *as* good. There isn't, in fact, anything from any of the other Detroit brands that's as good.
Now, if it accelerates the way its power (est. 340) vs. weight (per Monaro specs) suggest it should (eg: about equal to the late TransAm), I'll be in the market. If it doesn't perform that well, then it will likely be another disappointment, like the Mercury Marauder.
The Aussies have taken care of it for us!
I can also confirm that there will be I model to the GTO. The Isa or 2VX37 model.
Colors:
Quicksilver
Impulse Blue
Barbados Blue
Yellow Jacket
Torrid Red
Phantom Black
Cosmo Purple (WHAT!!)
There will also be matching interior colors for the interior, gauge, and stiching. Sound System= 6-disk CD changer in-dash, ETR AM/FM stereo with auto-tone control, 200Watt Blaupunkt stereo.
If you wish to have more Info. about the GTO or other pontiac models click on my username in blue. I have about 275 pages of info on 2004 Pontiacs.
MHO - most cars (sedans, coups) with an angled roof line are horribly dated. Don't know why - I just hate that.
Sorry
But when I'm really in the mood to enjoy the spring days, I take the old Jeep for a ride. No top or doors. I can even fold down the windshield when I'm off road. That's hard to beat.
Wheelbase 109.80
Overall lenght 189.80
Overall hieght 55.06
Body Width 79.26
Everything I can find on the Commodore and Monaro says 72.5in.
One Pontiac fan website went so far as to remove the picture of the new Goat from it's home page and replace it with a new <gasp> Mustang.
Like most of you I have yet to see the GTO but I am disappointed in the photos I've seen thus far which make the car seem like a larger Cavalier.
Like the complainers I think there ought to be more GTO identifiers. on the car--twin hood scoops, dual splitter exhausts etc. At least the did get the engine badges on the flanks (I miss those!)
I'll give you my further opinions on the styling after I've seen it @ the NYIAS in three weeks.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
If you look at the GTO in 1964, you could barely tell it apart from the rest of the box-on-a-box style cars of the day. In '68 when they did the flowing c-pillar design, you'd have to have an eye for detail to tell it apart from cars like the LeMans, Chevelle, Cutlass, and other GM cars.
The GTO was always about dropping a hot motor in an average midsize coupe. Sure it may have had a couple different paint colors. Or maybe a few distinctive stripes. But it was nothing more than a midsize with a big engine.
Consider the alternatives coming from GM. Would you rather have the outdated, obese, mullet-mobile look of the F-body? Or see the GTO covered in gaudy plastic? GM has come a long way since Lutz took over. And it's only getting better.
The show car right now has true dual exhaust but because of the gas tank in the aussie version, they both exited to one side. Now that the tank is moved for the USA, expect to see the exhaust rerouted.
Besides, if you're really hung up on style, just wait and buy the SLP products when they come out. They'll be producing a hood with scoops, etc. That is, if you're actually going to step up and buy one.
The last thing I want is another piece-of-crap Plastiac like the old Firebird/Trans Am. The new GTO is a step toward real cars, and away from the snap-together scoop-laden Transformer junk that's been Pontiac's standard operating procedure for the past twenty years.
The cheap-tacky-over-the-top Pontiac image is the biggest weakness to the GTO/Monaro. I'd have preferred that GM just sell it as a Holden. Better a nameplate with no image than a nameplate with a bad image.
boy-racerness of late model trans-Ams and GPs.
The LeMans was quite a good looking car for it's day, tho it looks today like a family sedan. You had to look carefully to see the GTO styling cues. IMO it should be that way on the new ones, personally I'd skip the wing.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I saw at the LA Auto Show.
I had been following the story... Lutz get hot car from the Aussies with Detroit Powertrain etc...
But the GTO has heritage and the auto companies seem to forget about that ALL THE TIME!
They could have let their designers... Under-utilized well-talented designers have at it and develop a killer body.... and they could have done it in record time.
But for some reason there just ain't no soul in the Motor City coming from GM!!
The GTO is a classic. It deserves at least SOME styling cues from the past.
64,65,68,69,70 just take a look.
Look at the split grill of the 66,67. Look at the grill inserts.Look at the hood scoop for godsakes! Look at the special horizontal tail lights. Look at the dual exhausts!
Oh BTW, you have to by an Acura TL to get dual exhausts!
Puleeze are there no car nuts left at GM at all???... Or has corporate beurocracy killed the new GTO?
Lets see what the hi-po CTS V-series sedan (although extremely fugly) will bring.
Bob will have to do a lot of work to undo a lot of years of GM's "Not Getting It"! But it just might not be enough soon enough.... He had better get his former PTCruiser design crew on the stick and quick!
His GTO was NOT one of them.
A far out thought:
Maybe Lutz could hire Delorean as a consultant.
Yeah just one more consultant, or....
Shelby Cobra, Mustang GT, GT-40
Duntov Corvette
DeLorean GTO....It just plain fits.
Ha....just dreamin!!
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93