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Pontiac GTO

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  • Anyone experience tire cupping problem with GTO? I have 26K and front tires are all bad, and I will have to replace them both.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,923
    kentmoon, thanks for the heads up re the potential tire cupping. may i ask, did you rotate the tires at 10k? or 20k? also, what tire pressure do you run? and do you do mostly city or mostly highway driving?
    in my experience, cupping can be normal, once there are enough miles on the tires. cupping/bad-wear by 26k does not sound entirely unreasonable for a performance/Z-rated tire. usually i rotate tires no more often than 10k miles, and i run 34 psi cold pressure.
    there may well be alternative tires that fit and meet specs for the car, and which will wear more slowly. but that would surely be a cost of grip. tradeoffs.
  • Just a quick note... I think it was hammen that posted a while back about air pressure in GTO's fresh off the boat, I checked mine after I read that article and all 4 tires were running in excess of 60psi! If you have recently bought your GTO you might want to check the tire pressure.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Tires... highest mileage I'm aware of is someone who commutes upwards of 120 miles per day. IIRC he's approaching 40k miles and needs tires in the worst way. I would expect, if you do any performance driving, you'll be lucky to get 27-30k on them.

    Another consideration... many of these GTO's have alignment issues from the factory. Over time, this can lead to strut rub and premature tire wear. I had my dealership check the alignment at the first tire rotation, and look for strut rub - none was found, but the alignment was off. Below are the alignment specs that GM TAC is suggesting for the GTO, to avoid strut rub (info from Mike White of Dublin Motor Sports in the S.F. Bay Area):

    camber: -.2 plus or minus .5 (.-.7 to .3)
    caster: 7.75 degrees plus or minus 1.25 (9.00 to 6.5)
    cross caster: plus or minus .6 degrees
    toe for the front: .17 degrees plus or minus .17 degrees (0 to 3.4 degrees)
    Stick close to 0-.17 degrees

    rear
    camber: -1.05 plus or minus .63 (-.42 to -1.68 degrees)
    toe: is .4 plus or minus .34 (.06 to .74)
    Again, keep this number low. The rear cambers should be as positive as specs allow (-.42 degrees)

    As far as tires go, the 18" wheels that are optional on the '05 GTO are Bridgestone Potenza's, but they are a summer-only tire. Others like the "New Tread" variation of the BF Goodrich KDW tires (though I have a friend/co-worker with them on his Lexus IS300 and they are so loud you can't hear anyone on a cell phone call on the freeway at 65+ mph - not sure if it's the tire or poor insulation in the wheel wells of the IS, but I'm leery of them for this reason). I know some folks who have gone to Toyo Proxes and are happy. Others like the Pirelli P-Zero Nero tires (which are standard on the '05 Mustang GT). Another thing you can do to prevent strut rub is drop from a 245 to a 235 size. Not sure of all of those tires come in OEM sizes, as many are moving up to 18" wheels (what I will do when it comes time for new tires in a year or two)...

    --Robert
  • white6white6 Posts: 588
    I switched to Avon M550 A/S tires in 235/45-17 ($106 each from tirerack) when I swapped out to my BMW type 119 wheels. Significant improvement in noise and ride quality. I suppose I lost that last 10% of "performance" at the limit; I don't race my GTO, only drive on the street (mostly highway) and whatever I lost I would probably never use. In the meantime, the car is much more enjoyable in day-to-day driving.
  • croxcrox Posts: 1
    To give a little insight into the reasoning behind little GTO advertising, it has a lot to do with what cars they are currently trying to launch. Obviously G6 is their sales leader. And Solstice has had a huge effect on the brand image of Pontiac, along with the new advertising campaign. And a quick correction - the third vehicle in Times Square is the G6 Coupe GTP. A slight difference. (I recommend checking out the Pontiac Garage when they have concerts up on top. The next one I know of is New Year's, but they had a couple of them already.)

    Anyway - GTO on the other hand, is not a new launch vehicle and has not been so for a couple of years. There have been a number of improvements to the vehicle - most noticeably the hood scoops, but nothing drastically new.

    As for GTO sales - last year was a struggle for GTO. Why, I'm not sure. But this year sales are up 48%. That's huge.

    Pontiac has had its struggles in recent years. No one will deny that. But the new designed vehicles they have are terrific. Find me a better looking car on the road than the G6 Coupe, and for $25K. You can't do it.
  • kevm14kevm14 Posts: 423
    I think any tire would be an improvement over the KDWS. It's a pretty mediocre and not-that-cheap tire. The M+S part is a joke and the worst part is, it seems to lose some wet/dry capability in spite of being a poor candidate for winter driving. Yuck. I also squint at those who insist it's a good tire. It's "not that bad" at best. In the GM B-Body world, it's even known for being a severe wanderer/tramliner.
  • The problem is that Pontiac NEVER really advertised the new improvements to the 2005. Only in magazines etc once in a while. Certainly not on TV. 2005 wasn't much more $$ then 2004.

    In addition to the hood scoops are the red painted calipers and new rear fascia/dual chrome exhaust.

    However the most noticeable improvements to the 2005 GTO are the ones you don't see, under the hood. 50 more hp, 40 more torque on the bigger V8 and bigger brakes! Car now stops 20 feet shorter from 70mph.

    Where did you read that Pontiac sales are up 48% this year? G6 GTP coupe is nice for $25k, but GTO is better if you can afford it, quality/interior etc.
  • rorrrorr Posts: 3,630
    Regarding the advertising -

    Remember that even a very CHEAP ad campaign (TV ads and some print media) can very quickly exceed $10 million.

    For 12,000 cars (expected '05 sales), a 12million dollar ad campaign equates to $1000 worth of advertising per '05 GTO sold. This is why you see ad campaigns for stuff like the G6 where GM can spread the cost out over a much larger # of projected sales.

    Would you guys have happily paid another $1k just to have the GTO advertised heavier? And for what? They'll sell all the '05 GTO's they planned to import so why boost the advertising?
  • The reason that there is little GTO advertising is that it is a low volume, low profit margin vehicle. Why spend the bucks to advertise when the bottom line return is minimal? The GTO was to be Pontiac's halo car. I'm not sure how successful it was at bringing people into the dealer. Pontiac's overall sales are down for the year by 10.6%.

    The new Pontiac halo car is the Solstice. Another low volume vehicle. Other than the appearance on "The Apprentice" I haven't seen much advertising for it. I have heard that dealers are asking more than msrp for them (see '04 GTO). How's that for a huge effect on potential buyers?

    Regarding GTO sales, YTD 8419 cars sold compared with 5551 last year, a gain of 51.7%. However, a significant portion of those were leftover '04s sold during '05. Plus they cut production to 12K cars total from about 16K last year. August sales were down 35.7% and now it's back on the employee discount program. I'd be willing to bet there will be '05s still for sale when the '06s hit in January (and maybe a few brand new '04s still available too).

    As far as an alternative to the G6, I'd go with an Acura RSX or a Scion tC for my $25K.
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,923
    i do like the red calipers! pal at work was inspired to paint his minicooper calipers red after seeing my 05 goat. the fake hood scoops constantly annoy me however. i'm going to get a quote from body shop for a 2004 hood, painted & installed, and maybe a quote for removing the GTO badges on the side & bondo-ing. or maybe installing the aussie side-turn-signals there. that would be the coolest. (or are they just reflectors?) oh avatar hammen2, you will know whether there is already wiring there for those lights, ya ? they are turn signals down under, right? i guess the service dept would have to do part of the work if it was installing side turn signals.
    i've been driving around without the bottom half of the rear bumper for a couple weeks now - dealer body shop has been unable to obtain an undamaged replacement. i talked to them today and said i'd actually prefer the holden piece which doesn't say "GTO" but would take whichever piece they could get first. i haven't paid them for the repairs, but then again the repairs are not 100% complete either. i told them i'd give them credit card # on the phone on the spot but they declined - they are treating me just fine.
    i think the "half rear bumper" look might have contributed to me getting pulled over by an unmarked statey over the weekend. of course, my driving style was a factor too :) but no citation - that makes me 5 for 5 in my home state.
    dealer has replacement radio for me. hopefully that will fix the absence of AM radio reception. they already replaced antenna modulator. service cat told me if the new radio doesn't fix it, they'll have to replace the whole coax cable next. if that doesn't work, yuck, what next - new rear window? ugh. replacing glass is tough to do perfectly, especially difficult to do as good as the holden factory i guess.
    also the left windshield sprayer has stopped working. it was a bit "off" since day 1.
    as for the advertising, i think i've stated previously that it's a no-brainer, if i was chief GM marketeer i wouldn't spend a dime advertising GTO. all the GTOs will sell themselves sooner or later, no matter the price per gallon of gas.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Oh avatar hammen2, you will know whether there is already wiring there for those lights, ya ?

    You rang?

    Side markers, including sockets and bulbs: approximately $75 + $12 s & h from jhp.com.au. Or, check ebay.com.au for deals (but not as fast shipping/prompt service). I haven't done this myself, but understand it's very easy. From someone who has: "Run 2 wires under the fender plastic trim (in loom) and tap into the orange markers in the front bumper. Both now light up when signaling and when the alarm is activated."

    Geoff can also send you that blank Monaro piece - for $262 shipped from Australia, ouch.

    As for getting pulled over, must be the season. My plates expired in August - sent in the renewal early last week - well, last Friday I was MMOB (right lane, cruise control on, doing the exact speed limit) when I got pulled over 5 minutes away from my house (first police incident in about 9 years). Pulled me over for expired registration. Got a "fix it" ticket and have to have proof in 10 days to make it go away. Only problem is that I checked with the state DMV, and, due to a new computer system, they are backlogged - presently processing renewals sent in on July 21 - oops.

    Gotta go plead my case to the cops (still have my duplicate check for proof, thankfully),

    --Robert
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,923
    thanks for the info, hammen2. i shouldn't have boasted on the "5 for 5"! KARMA TIME. my stats got worse this morning, even though i'm still 5 for 5 in my home state. oh well, i deserved it! the goat needs to go back to the dealer for a while anyway - even beyond that i think i'm going to park and drive the TDI for a while... :| :| :| well, i think i'll order those side-markers from down under now...
    ps - from what i saw on insurance paperwork & from talking to body shop, the USA rear bumper piece which says "gto" costs about the same as the holden/non-gto piece. i'll just go with whatever the dealer comes up with... hmm, maybe it would help if i removed all the GTO badges and put on TDI badges. :|
  • The hood scoops are NOT fake. They actually work by helping to vent air into LS2/engine compartment. There is a thermal picture somewhere on www.ls1gto.com that shows them working. I personally like them much better then the slick hood of the 2004, car stands out more, my opinioin. I wouldn't pay extra $$ to replace the hood unless it was damaged, same with GTO badges on side.
  • "As far as an alternative to the G6, I'd go with an Acura RSX or a Scion tC for my $25K. "

    OMG, you really think the RSX or TC is an alternative to the G6???

    The meybe the base g6, but even with the base you get a much higher class of car than the TC and the GTP version which is about 25K blows both of these cars out of the water!

    The Pontiac G6 GTP has 240hp, the TC has 160, the RSX has 200. The pontiac also has alot of chrome on the interrior, im willing to bet it is more roomy that either TC or RSX, and in general you get more car with the G6.

    I could understand you said an Accord or Altima, but TC and RSX? I'm suprised they are in the same planet.

    Guys, so whats going on for 2008? Is there still a GTO?
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Guys, so whats going on for 2008? Is there still a GTO?

    The current model GTO will stop production no later than August of next year, maybe sooner (its Monaro counterpart ends production at the end of December). It can't be continued in North America because it doesn't meet 2007 MY crash standards.

    GM is still trying to figure out what they are going to do with respect to a next-generation GTO (i.e. what platform to use or develop, where to build it). The platform codes GMX-282 and GMX-284 have been tentatively assigned to a next-generation GTO and Grand Prix/G8, respectively, and I believe that a product manager/VLE (Vehicle Line Executive) has been assigned. The inside info still calls this a 2008-2009 model year vehicle, though I think it's more likely it will be a 2009 model than a 2008.

    The rumor was that the next-gen would be built on Zeta, in Australia, alongside a next-gen Monaro, but the inclusion of the presumably higher-volume Grand Prix/G8 (sharing the same styling, chassis, and powertrain options) may scuttle that. As an aside, this is why the rumor of a "four door" or "suicide door" GTO started, when in fact it's a separately-named vehicle.

    I have no clue if we'll see any concept cars or prototypes at NAIAS in January - the rumor is that a Camaro concept will be shown there. Follow the example of the Solstice - it was a show car in 2002, and now 3 1/2 years later it finally appears, on a new platform. Figure it's going to be difficult for GM to do something similar (Camaro or GTO) in much less than that timeframe...

    --Robert
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,923
    muscle4you dude, let's agree to disagree re the hood "scoops". they are designed to look like intake scoops. yet they are not actual intake scoops. they are vents. if they were designed to look like vents instead of scoops i might not call them fake. as they are , i still think they are fake. but hey, maybe that's just me and that ex-nascar driver who think so. if the placebo effect makes you think they make your goat faster, all the better for you. i know they don't do jack squat to make mine faster. their only benefit would be that the engine could remain a little cooler if i was sitting in a long line of cars staging for a drag race, that sort of thing. or at a stoplight, maybe they keep the engine from getting quite as hot. in other words, they are vents. and i think it's lame that they look like scoops. personally i'd much rather have the stealth of a smooth hood. oh well, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. enjoy your goat.
    ps - any one of yall live on a mountain? how about license plate: MTNGOAT ! ?
  • I will agree to disagree re scoops.

    They sell a hood that does an actual RAM AIR into newer GTO. Only 10hp increase if that. http://www.slponline.com/view_product.asp?P=100196&BIG=100196-1
  • To each his own. When I saw pics of the '05 GTO late last year I ran out and bought an '04, I thought the hood scoops and rear GTO valance ruined the subtle / smooth lines of the car. My buddies love the scoops and loud (IMO) rear valance, they say I'm nuts for not getting the '05 (400 hp would of been nice). Different strokes, no need to argue.....Mark.
  • Also the 2005 has better abs brakes, bigger front brakes, new C6 Vette motor, vented rear brakes, stronger tranny, electronic throttle control, better traction control & Split dual exhaust. As you said, to each their own. Both years are nice regardless.
  • The hood scoops whether functional or not, is a trade mark of the GTO. GTO's in the old days had the scoops. Only a small percentage had the ram air option. The biggest single critique Pontiac received when they reintroduced the
    car last year was "where are the hood scoops" They were literally inundated
    with e-mails, letters, and phone calls expressing disapointment about this.
    Pontiac listened and remedied this blunder with the 05.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Pontiac listened and remedied this blunder with the 05.

    Actually, the story that I've heard is that they planned all along to have a scooped hood, but could not get a new hood developed and crash-tested in time for the car to come out as an '04 model (ditto the revised rear fascia/separated exhaust). Since '04 was the 40th anniversary of the GTO, they made the decision to go scoop-less... and why there were rumors all during 2004 that the '05's would have scoops and the LS2.

    Hey, don't laugh, marketing folks from Pontiac actually considered putting STICKERS on the hood to give it the appearance of scoops (can you say Screaming Firechicken?). Thankfully that idea got shot down...

    --Robert
  • eliaselias Posts: 1,923
    dudes, thanks for the historical angle and recent history re the goat hood 'scoops' - my appreciation for them just went up a notch!
  • Whats up Mate
    I have an 04 silver gto, are you still looking for the stock hood?? Also I have onle had the car for 1 week and just yesturday It started misfiring on multiole cylinders. I can not drive it and have to get it to the dealer tommorow... it has 5000 miles on it. Have you ever had a problem like this??
  • Does anyone have a problem with their gear nob itself rattling while 2000rpm or higher?? Mine seems to be doing it alot.
  • hammen2hammen2 Posts: 1,313
    Does anyone have a problem with their gear nob itself rattling while 2000rpm or higher?

    I have heard of folks having this problem, yes. Some dealers will replace the shifter, others say that this is "normal" and refuse to do anything about it. Typical GM dealership service... it's like tossing a coin as to whether they'll fix it or not.

    --Robert
  • hows it goin mate. I live in California and just bought a 2004 GTO. I love it but it has a misfiring problem right now. I will try to find any way I can to get it looking like the monaro it really is. Any advice would be much appreciated. I know a lot about both cars, I am an aussie and have lived here for 4 years. I saw the Vauxhall in England at a car show in Goodwood and I liked it although too much flare on the body , I like the 04 gto cos it is sleak and not too over the top on the body kit... I am thinking about getting a functioal hood with the scoops.. is this easy to do?? Good to hear another aussie has a gto out there
  • xkssxkss Posts: 722
    I read on autoweek.com that GM is reviving its rwd plans...
This discussion has been closed.