Pontiac GTO

sputterguy · November 2005

since it keeps coming up. I've test driven at least 12 '04 and '05 GTOs and every last one has this condition. Some are more severe, as in if the key doesn't come all the way out it grabs it and you have to yank it out, but they all have it.

It's possibly a mechanical device to hold the key in the ignition. I don't know why though. In 40 years of driving I've never had a key fall out. In fact, in the old days usually you could pull the key out while the car was running. I guess with locking steering wheels that went away. Another thing I've thought about is a small magnetic charge. I think there is a small electric charge at any rate, which would explain why if the key is left in the ignition and the car is not running, the battery will die. Other than that there doesn't seem to be any problems related to this.

Regarding the knocking sound, I've never experienced it. But I do have the 'thunk in the trunk'. That was supposed to be fixed. It's better now but it still happens once in awhile.

There sure are a lot of quirks with these cars.

graphicguy · November 2005

Haven't stopped in here in a long time. Hope all is well. Just wanted to report something I saw just today.

There was an ad in the local newspaper for "any new GTO in stock" for a price of $26,999 from a local (OH) dealer.

Now, that's a compelling price point considering Mustang GTs are selling above that similarly equipped (around $28K).

GM must be offering some hefty incentives. That's good news for GTO fans.

cccompson · November 2005

In what paper did you see today's ad for "any new GTO" $26,999? I'm in Ohio and, perhaps, in the market for one.

It seems rather remarkable given the price difference between automatic and manual.

mick1 · November 2005

My 04 Auto had the leather shift cover replaced and then every other time the key would not come out after putting it in park. The heavy handed service writer 5 times shifted into drive and then into park and every time the key came out. I didn't like that he was a litle rough with my new GTO, but guess what, he fixed it!

emd567 · November 2005

My local dealer has two red auto's, one marked as a demo. They also have two '04s, with prices in the low 20's. I am still holding out for an 06', but if they are dropping the prices to the 26 level, I might bite on an 05'

graphicguy · November 2005

The Ad was in the Cincinnati Enquirer (Wednesday's edition, IIRC). I think it was from Tri-County Pontiac, but am not certain.

ruski....it's been mild here so far. Matter of fact, it's been in the high 60s-low 70s last week....unusual for the 1st week of November. But, you're right....winter is on it's way.

For whatever reason, GTOs have not sold well around here. Most have been on the dealer's lots for months on end.

Maybe the price "break" will clear them out.

midwesttrader · November 2005

"GM must be offering some hefty incentives. That's good news for GTO fans."

Good news for buyers, bad news for sellers. Even with quite low production quantities this car is typical GM. Wait 2 years and a low mileage used one can be had for cheap. An '04 auto with 3K miles on it sold recently on eBay for $19,100. That's the only one that actually sold. Highest bid on the many others available was $23,500.

Speaking of production quantities I read elsewhere that only 10K '05s were built instead of the 12K planned.

hammen2 · November 2005

midwesttrader, I know that you read "that other site" so you also know that many of the GTO's that show up on eBay are buybacks or other, less-than-desirable cars (used performance cars are somewhat of a crapshoot - why I bought new). Hard to use that as an accurate judge of pricing (unless you've looked in GMVIS and CarFax)...

--Robert

midwesttrader · November 2005

The car looks clean to me. Says 100% Carfax guaranteed, whatever that means, and includes the balance of the factory warranty. Here's a link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Pontiac-GTO-Coupe-2004-PONTIAC-GTO-LOADED-ONLY-2900-MILES-N- - O-RESERVE_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ7244QQitemZ4584217429QQrdZ1

Comments anyone?

dat2 · November 2005

If you go to carmax.com, you will see they only have 6 used GTOs in the whole country, they are all 04's, no 05's, and they are priced in the low 20's. That means they are probably buying them from people in the upper teens. That really sucks for someone who might have paid 30 grand or more a year ago. And even for someone who got one when they were down to 26 grand at the first of this year.

Does anyone think the value of used GTO's will stop dropping like a rock any time soon? Do you think they will be a little higher value even this next spring, when people are looking at sports cars more?

cccompson · November 2005

Thanks, graphicguy, I'll take a look. I am a bit surprised though because when I shopped for (but did not buy) one last January the Cincinnati area dealers were not particularly price competitive.

graphicguy · November 2005

ccc...you're welcome. I know I was looking at GTOs towards the end of '04....beginning of '05. Best deal I saw in the Cincinnati area was $29K and change for an '05 ('04s were selling in the mid $20K range). But, that was using my bro-in-law's GMS discount and I think a $1K rebate, at the time. It seems that without the GM discount, that $27K number has some "incentives" added to it. Don't know what those might be, though.

I'm not in the market, but at $27K, the GTO becomes more compelling for those that are in the market. That prices it below where most Mustang GTs sell for. I would imagine that the GMS price, with whatever incentives GMS has going on with the car, would price it right around $26K.

If in the market, that wold make it mighty tempting....expecially given that the FWD GXP would be priced right around the same price point.

mustang_svt · November 2005

The downward curve may flatten some in the spring, but who's ever really happy with their car's resale value. The best move to combat low resale value is to not realize it and just keep the car. I don't even think about the resale value of my '05 because the joy of firing that thing up each morning and going somewhere will be worth far more than the resale value for years to come. The comments I get out in the real world hold value as well. The only place I get negative comments is here at Edmunds.

Selling a used '05 GTO - $22,000. Driving an '05 GTO - priceless. :shades:

cracovian · November 2005

2004 GTOs were going for $22K OTD around Christmas 2004. Some people got them even cheaper. That included $5K GM card and $5.5K Southeast rebates, AND low financing offers. Selling those for high teens now wouldn't be such a terrible deal.

Instead of getting mine for $22K ($400 a month for 60 months if financed) I chose the $120/month 2-year lease instead (with zero down of course). I'll have an option to buy it for $20.5K in 12/2006 but I hope I can get a 2006 for $22K then ;-)

omegagen · November 2005

I simply could not get over that the GTO has got to be the most visually unappealing, high horsepowered car on the market! I have browsed this board for months contemplating what 3rd "fun car" I would buy. I am a horsepower V-8 kinda guy, so I tried to make myself like the GTO. I went to look at one about 3 months ago and was going to ask for a test drive, but I just couldn't get over how bland the car looked. So I left with no test drive, my loss I'm sure.

It's no wonder GM is "on the ropes" they simply have lost the eye for visually appealing cars with the exception of the Vette, Solice and CTS-V. This is my opinion, but their business troubles would tend to fall in line with how I feel. Their other problem is that they rode the SUV-craze too long and too hard. It goes to show you that Hp isn't everything, if it was they wouldn't have to discount GTO prices and have the cars just sitting on lots for months with no takers. Obviously, I'm not alone on how unappealing it is to the eye. Sports cars are suppose to be "eye-candy"...the GTO is not, therefore, I bought the COMPLETE opposite, a 2005 BMW Z4!

It doesn't have gobs of power like the GTO, but when I went to a BMW dealership to look at it the car moved me with it's design. The current Z4 like the GTO is not selling well, hence, the lease offers and dealer rebates. To some this current BMW line does not appeal to them visually including the Z4, but I like most of you like to buy cars that move ME and not someone else.

C-Ya!!

monarofan · November 2005

I must say I like the looks of the car. It has a clean, sleek look and the 2005 hoodscoops give it a more agressive stance. I have had a lot of people tell me what a great looking car it is. More than any other car I have owned. It is a shame you didn't drive one. The real beauty is in the driving.

elias · November 2005

i think GM hit the mark with GTO styling because half of the market seems to think it is too gaudy and the other half thinks it is not sporty-looking enough. personally i can't stand the fake hood scoops which are actually mere vents and have removed the 3 largest GTO badges/emblems/bumper-piece. i'm considering getting an 04 hood installed & removing the rear wing too. the more it looks like a pontiac rental car, the better.
if you care more about a car looks then of course buy the car that looks best to you. personally i care more about how the car drives and how things look & feel from my drivers seat rather than how they look to pedestrians or other drivers.
speaking of BMW Z4, it reminds me of my favorite *looking* BMW, that little two-seater coupe they made for a couple years.
C YA in the rearview, omegagen

sakinosh · November 2005

I know Robert went into this a few posts ago...but I'd love to add a lip spoiler onto my future GTO...and the only one I've seen that really impresses me is in the website below - which unfortunately is in a foreign language.
These pics were posted on this forum much earlier, but does anybody know (Robert?) where you can pick up this lip spoiler? I think it really sets off the lines of the Goat in my opinion.

Thanks

http://www2.uol.com.br/bestcars/supercar2/gm-2.htm

zinger · November 2005

Robert,
Do you know which cars were on the train that crashed in April? I am considering this car VIN#: 6G2VX12U35L456255. Any reason to wait?

Thanks for your help in advance.

zinger · November 2005

The plastic GTO on the rear bottom has a little nick on it. Does anybody know if this piece pops off and can be replaced easily before I buy? The right passenger mirror plastic also has a nick mark.

I hate to be picky but when buying new you kinda want it fresh right outta the box.

hammen2 · November 2005

I believe that VIN would be a car produced after those from April. The critical numbers in the VIN are the last 6 - the 456255. Ask the dealer to run the VIN through GMVIS to get the complete history - they shouldn't have a problem doing so if they're trying to sell you this car.

--Robert

hammen2 · November 2005

Yes, that rear fascia plate is fairly easily removable. I'd make that a condition of the deal - same with repairing or replacing the mirror.

I'll try to reply to some of the earlier messages later tonight when I get to Detroit...

--Robert

b4z · November 2005

I had read several months ago that the GTOs that were involved in the train derailment were at Jack Roush's shop.

b4z · November 2005

Robert,

Since I don't frequent this thread much I was going thru some older posts from June and saw that you were considering the HSV wheels.
Have you seen my Ronal R41s?
They are the perfect fit for the GTO.

zinger · November 2005

Thanks Robert will do.

The plastic that contains the mirror has the marks on it. I dont know if that can be replaced easily?

This car has the 18's on it. Is that strictly a summer tire? I am assuming it will handle better than the 17's. In rain too?

ausstar · November 2005

I agree with monarofan. You have not looked at the car from a sleeper stand point. That is what it is. I have a silver 04, I took the wing off and with bigger agressive offset wheels it looks so sleek and refined that more than 3 people tell me that it looks like a Mazeratti. The BMW Z4 is a little honda rice burner with the BM badge and luxuries. It does not hold true to BMW styling. You should get rid of two of your cars and get the 6 series.
But lets not forget when you pull up to the line in the Moanro, people look and no one knows what it is until they hear it. At that point the monaro GTO looks its best... moving at a pace that humbles others into one thought... "I want one of those!!"
Anyway mate, I hope you enjoy your BMW, but in a month from now, when you are missing that rumble, you'll want to get the Monaro you should have got in the first place so you can hear the thoughts of other drivers.. "what the hell just blew my doors off!!!"
:P ">

hammen2 · November 2005

I think I've seen pics of your wheels on "that other site" that I've been wayyy too busy to contribute to of late. They look very nice.

I still like the CV8-R wheels, but I'm being practical in wearing out my stock tires first. My guess is, with 9500 miles on the car since April 1, and about to go into storage, I'll wear out the stock tires by this time next year. I won't get new wheels until I start driving the car again in the spring of the following year (2007... sheesh).

Or, if I win the lottery, I'll do it sooner :-)

--Robert

hammen2 · November 2005

That's the Woodward, a/k/a Ram Air 6 GTO from the 2004 Woodward Dream Cruise.

More info here:

http://www.seriouswheels.com/top-2004-Pontiac-GTO-Ram-Air-6.htm

I haven't seen a spoiler that exactly matches this. Best you could do is probably the Arrowhead Performance spoiler:

http://www.arrowheadperformance.com/images/front_rear_spoiler/rear_closeup.jpg

But Arrowhead is extremely unreliable with ship dates - if you can find their products in stock somewhere (Gravana), I'd buy from them rather than directly.

Hope this helps,

--Robert

hammen2 · November 2005

Those that weren't salvageable went to Nordstrom's Auto in South Dakota:

http://www.nordstromsauto.com/

I believe that the repairable ones did get fixed and were sent to their ordering dealers. Union Pacific (or, more specifically, their insurance company) was responsible for the whole load, so don't worry that if something was more than just slightly cosmetically damaged, it got totaled and sent to salvage...

--Robert

hammen2 · November 2005

You didn't even bother to take it for a drive... too bad, you probably would have left the dealership with one.

99% of the people who criticize the GTO have never sat in one, much less driven one. I know several folks who didn't like it until the drive, then they bought one. Yes, it's really a driver's car.

Resale matters not to me, since I plan to own this car for many years. As others have posted, the resale value of the '04's was hurt by the blowout sale pricing at the end of 2004, lowering the transaction prices to $22-$24k. Figuring the typical few thousand between trade-in and dealer retail on a used car, and the first-year depreciation (happens with just about every car), it's not too bad (except for those who paid MSRP or more).

The depreciation curve tends to slow by the second year. Factor in the low production numbers (maybe 37-40k at the end of the model after the 2006 model year), and I expect resale to stabilize, if not improve. Look at the GM B-bodies from the early to mid 90's: Caprice/Impala, and, to a lesser extent, Roadmaster and Custom Cruiser. They still have great value almost 10 years after their model run, because they were the last of the big RWD sedans/wagons, and GM fans wanted to own one of these vehicles. I suspect something similar will happen to the GTO, once it's no longer sold. I have several friends/co-workers who are not as fortunate as I but would pounce on a slightly-used '04 for $18k...

As to current pricing, the GMS (employee) price is $30,293 and change for the stick, $30,995 and change for the automatic. Figure another $400+ if you want the optional 18" wheels (must be ordered with the car/built with the 18's). Right now, at least here in the midwest, there's $3k cash back through Sunday the 13th (or 1.9/2.9/3.9% financing for 1/3/5 years). Some GM cardholders also got a $1k incentive to use on top of the $1000 max they can redeem on a GTO. How that one dealer got to 27k without throwing in some things like Oldsmobile Loyalty, Military Discount, or Side-Saddle Gas Tank vouchers, I don't know...

--Robert

hammen2 · November 2005

Is it the inside of the mirror surround, or the mirror plastic itself that is chipped/marred? What color? Maybe they can swap with another identical color on their lot, otherwise they may have to order and

The 18's are definitely a summer-only tire. I do not believe that they are better in rain than the stock 17's. They probably will make the car ride worse but handle better, since the Monaros are all sold with 18" wheels from the factory, and thus the suspension geometry is set up for the 18's...

--Robert

sputterguy · November 2005

The front view is simply awesome. The rear fascia does seem a little deep. The '05 went a long way towards cleaning it up.

sputterguy · November 2005

personally I like the badges on the fenders. It's great when you are stopped and the person in the next car is stareing at them. You can see the wheels in their heads turning.

The Mustang people are always saying how the Mustang is so instantly recognizable. Funny, now I'm seeing '05's with decals spelling out Mustang. I guess that's the opposite of de-badging. Should that be called badging-plus or something?

sputterguy · November 2005

Wonder what they did to that 389 to get 575 hp out of it?

zinger · November 2005

Robert it is torrid red. It is the plastic shell around the mirror on the outside.

I am still on the fence - I know everyone here is going to love this but I dont want to give up my 00 Celica GTS 6 SP which handles and brakes unbelievably. But is a little short on zip.

Thanks

Jim

b4z · November 2005

Just a FYI for GTO owners considering new wheels.
Ronal is a supplier to Audi and makes very high
quality wheels. They have a wheel called the R41 that fits
the GTO with absolutley no rubbing issues with a 245 section tire.(unlike the factory 18s).

They also added a "Hi Polish" option that is at the bottom of the page.

http://www.ronalusa.com/wheels/r41.html

I have the 18X8 wheel in sterling silver with BFG KDWs on my '04 GTO.
The KDWs are a huge improvement over the stock tires.
You don't really know how bad they are until you launch the car harder than you have before or take an offramp faster than you thought you could.

emd567 · November 2005

That's why I like it. It does not stand out(unless you get the zonkers yellow) and most folks will mistake it for a Grand Prix until it's too late, and all they see is taillights. This also goes for the cops. who might not jump if they think it's just a mom and pop car. Mustangs, Chargers, I can spot them from a mile away- the GTO-forget it until I am right on top of it, and I am looking for it.

mitsurob · November 2005

You guys will think I'm crazy, but I'm starting to miss the smoother ride from my bonneville that I traded for the GTO. The GTO feels really solid but some days I wish the ride was a little more forgiving on the concrete joints and patched roads. Has anyone replaced the stock tires to achieve a softer ride or the GTO suspension going to be prone to a hard/firm ride. Any ideas for a bonneville convert?

white6 · November 2005

I replaced the stock BFG's with a set of Avon TechM550 A/S tires from Tirerack. This is a ultra high performance all-season tire that accumulated great reviews for good ride and noise characteristics. I concur. They are a significant improvement over the OEM tires... softer ride, less noise, and I can't really tell any difference in handling. Of course, I don't autocross or track my GTO; it's a "fair weather daily driver." I also opted for the 235-size to help with the known strut-rub problem up front as well as to reduce impact harshness. Narrower cross section will, all else being equal, help in that area. The difference in outside diameter was very small (about 2%) and, anyway, I had the guys at RWTD custom tune my Diablosport Predator handheld tuner to compensate for the small speedo error, plus the built in manufacturer error (about 3%) and now my speedo is right on the money. I suppose I probably lost that last 5-10% of at-the-limit stick, but in the meantime the car is much more enjoyable to drive. I had to temporarily swap back to the OEM rubber a couple of months ago, and I can tell you I did not delay getting the Avon's back on. Hope this helps.

mitsurob · November 2005

Thanks for the info.
I'm not familiar with that brand, but thought about checking out the Tirerack web site for any advice. I'll check out the Avon Tech. Some days I feel like I'm driving on steel rails and just thought a tire swap might help provide a softer ride and eliminate some of the tire noise that primarily comes from the rear and when driving on concrete roadways. Did your Avon 235 size fit ok on the stock rims or did you upgrade the rims too.? Have to admit, I've seen some pretty sharp rims that I think would really add to the GTO's overall look.

elias · November 2005

white6 , what ratio on those 235 tires? 50s? 45s? factory 17s are 245/45? you guys complaining about GTOs ride must not have been f-body drivers before - the GTO rides like a caddy compared to the f-body cars !

white6 · November 2005

They are 235-45-17's on OEM BMW Style 119 wheels (17 x 8). Actually, I've owned nine F-body's over the last 28 years. My first car was a 1969 Camaro, then 74, then 79, then 84 (L69 Z28), then 86 (Crossfire-injected Z28). In 87 I switched to a Firebird Formula. Also had a 89 Firebird Formula 350. My first 4th gen was a 2000 V-6 Firebird (trying to be responsible by buying the V-6) and traded it a year later for a 2001 Formula. Strangely enough, that 01 Formy (on the OEM 16-inch Goodyears) didn't ride much worse than the goat. It's not so much that I am "complaining" about ride, I just don't see any reason for a harsh, noisy ride if it can be helped. And in the case of the GTO, the OEM tires are a significant part of the equation. Lots of people put wider, lower-profile tires on their GTO's that, I am quite sure, degrade the ride characteristics horribly. They want something different from their car than I do... more power to them!

gotav8 · November 2005

I agree with you that many of the people that criticize the GTO never drove or sat in one. All they point out is it's dull styling, but they slightly improved that for 2005 with the scoops and dual exhaust rear facia. It is one of best performance cars for it's price. It has arguably GM's best interior quality & Seats. Better then the Vette which $15k more.

The B Bodies do not have great value. Maybe above avg for an American make, however Our 1992 Caprice wagon 5.7L V8 in pretty good shape with about 75k miles is only worth about $3k today, if that.

With the REd Tag sale you can buy a brand new 2005 GTO for $29,800 by me. Thats not much more then a V8 Mustang.

blackflag3 · November 2005

Ones that criticize the styling of the GTO forget that it's
2005 not 1967. The styling is basically in line with the modern day look of most high performance coups from most automakers. I've not had one person young or old say they didn't like the looks of my 05. It's all been positive.
Not to mention whats under the hood which speaks for itself. With the pricing now under 30 grand there is not a performance car on the road for the price, that gives as much bang for the buck than the GTO. Including the highly
touted Mustang GT.

elias · November 2005

thanks for the tire info, white6. ok, so i thought i was a big-time f-body owner with 5 over 23 years, but i bow to your more prolific f-body ownership experience! me: 77 bird 305 automatic (bought used in 82), 85 Z 4bbl 305 5-spd tall-gearing, 89 iroc 305 TPI 5speed short-gears & dual-cats, 94 z28 automatic, 96 Z 6-spd, 2000 Z hurst 6-spd.
fwiw, i recall my 00 Z28 (16" wheels like your 01) rode significantly harsher than the goat. but my memory could be wrong - i have not done a 'side by side' or 'one after another' comparison.
one thing i really miss in the 05 goat compared to the 00 Z is the 6-spd hurst!

b4z · November 2005

This is the first I have heard of somebody complaining about the GTO's ride quality. I tis prbably the best riding perfromance car I have been in.

Stupid question, but have you checked your tire pressures?
These things come off the boat with over 50lbs of air in them.
Many dealerships forget tothe lower the pressure during PDI.
All 3 GTOs I test drove had over 50lbs of air in their tires.
It drives like a different car with correct pressure.
I am runnning 245/40-18 KDWs and the ride quality is only slightly harder than the stock 17s.
Which are aweful tires.

mitsurob · November 2005

I'll check the air pressure tonight. I've read elsewhere, that lowering from the recommended 35psi to 30-32 provides a little softer ride. I'm sure for a performance car, the GTO exhibits a great ride. But I was comparing it to my former ride (02 bonny) that had a much smoother ride. Just trying to get the best of both worlds!
b4z: What do you mean about the stock 17s when you say, "which are aweful tires". Are you referring to ride/noise quality?

axiomlover · November 2005

I fell in love with the GTO not more than two weeks ago. I always knew about its existence, but never really paid much attention. I always thought of it as a large Sunfire, but I decided to visit a dealership and check one out. They had an '05 Black/Black, which is absolutely beautiful!!! Wow, I am amazed that this car doesn't sell as fast as Solstice, but I like that it is rather rare. It reminds me of BMW 6-series. I was truly impressed with the fit and finish and 400 horses speak for themselves. I haven't had the courage to test drive one as I would most likely leave with it that night. Back seat was exceptionally roomy for a coupe. Anyway, I have a few questions before I commit myself:
1. Why is there such a big difference in gas mileage bet. 6speed and AT at highway speeds? Can you post rpm at 70mph for both versions (I assume the higher consumption with AT is due to higher rpm).
2. Has anyone tried to modify the seat motor to make it move faster in order to shorten the loading/unloading of rear seat passengers?
3. How does the car behave in winter time (in Chicago)? Is putting winter tires an absolute necessity?

Thanks for any help!

jason1168tx · November 2005

I certainly don't blame you for being afraid to test drive the car. I took one home to my wife and returned the next day and bought a Yellow Jacket 6-speed. The reason why the 6-speed is more economical is because the overdrive is so much deeper. 5th and 6th gears are both overdrive, and the engine only turns about 2000rpm's at 80mph.

I have not heard of any modifications on the seat motors, but wish there was something out there, because loading the kids in and out of the back seat is a pain!!

As far as winter driving, I haven't had mine in ice or snow yet, but the traction control works very well on wet pavement, unless you stab the throttle too hard. The car will get completely out of shape before the traction control kicks in if you get after it too hard.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the car. I installed a B&M Rip Shifter last weekend, and it is AWESOME. What a huge difference. All the gears are much easier to find now, and the throw seems half as long. I've got a K&N, JBA headers, and a Corsa cat back ordered and will install over the weekend, which should bring another 30-40hp easily.

xkss · November 2005

check the link

GTO.Rs

Pontiac GTO

Comments

Helpful Tools

Most popular vehicles