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Pontiac GTO
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Comments
To me, the GTO is pretty stiff.Maybe it is my area, or my tires (I got the optional 18", which have the recomended air pressure).
If the highway is in fine shape, the ride is fine. Around the city though, pretty bumpy! My old Impala, despite the mods, still has a way better ride.
When it is on, you can't shift into second (or third, I think). Those gear(s) are temporarily locked out.
I went with a BFG KDW 245/40-18.
To me the 235s don't look right on the car. Too narrow.
I run about 37lbs in the KDWs and they ride only slightly harder than than 245/45 KDWSs that originally came on the car(I hate those tires).
I hold 1st until I get over 19mph or below 13mph.
Also you can fool it by almost putting the shifter into 4th then going back to 2nd.
If you are a driving enthusiast at all, buy the 6-speed. I can't imagine having a 400 HP rear-wheel drive with an automatic.
A related decision is whether to just wait for the next-gen GTO. Could have the advantages of "Active Fuel Management" to decrease to using 4 cylinders during highway driving thus approaching 30 mph highway (as per the new Camaro concept car), elimination of the gas guzzler tax, larger trunk (due to proper placement of gas tank), more proper alignment of the steering wheel since it will be designed as a left-hand drive car from day one, etc. But disadvantages may be present too (I'm not crazy about the new look... I like the front and grill, but don't like the "smaller greenhouse", and I really don't want to buy 20" tires!).
(Of course, my original post was intended to question whether there were any "fixes", not new "features".)
I just dont think I care for the dark tails on Torrid Red.
but isn't the cement-mixer-like idle pretty much a known & loved characteristic of these LT1/LS1/LS2 cars?
One thing I have noticed around my neck of the woods- I have only seen 5 GTO's on the road. I drive about 300 miles every day, so it's not like I am just running errands. 1 yellow(whew) 3 red, and one black.
I can't speak for the aluminum versions, but my current '96 Impala SS and '96 Caprice, both with LT1's, idle just as smooth as the day they were delivered... and, by the way, neither of have ever been tuned up! (Caprice has the most miles, at 82,000.) I also had a '97 Z with an LT1; same smooth idle. I would not be happy with a new car that does not idle smoothly... a throaty rumble is fine, but not an idle that makes me anxious it might conk out!
The new tail lights do look better, even on my red/red.You'd have to see it in person. The black part really compliments the lower black part on the rear bumper.
My idle used to be a little rough, but that has gone away, it is as smooth as the lt1 in my Impala. I think it takes 500 miles for the pcm to dial everything in. I now have 1100 miles on it.
also, did the impala SS LT1 have the same cam as the Z28? maybe so. but a vanilla 96 caprice sure didn't have an f-body LT1 cam , eh - another reason idle would feel smoother.
i'm not sure how the aluminum/non-aluminum heads would affect idle. please inform me re aluminum/non-aluminum and also of the degree of cranial insertion apparent in my idle theories. thank you.
Now I can ask you directly: why did you opt for an '06 over an '05, especially given the extra incentives (customer rebate of $2000 to $2500 and dealer incentive of $2500) on the '05's?
I can live without the steering wheel-mounted radio controls; so I can't decide whether to buy now and get the rebate on a remaining '05, or wait until next fall and pick up an '06 (perhaps with a lower, say $1000) rebate.
(Current rebates ($2500 on '05, $500 on '06) expire on Jan 31, which is close at hand. I wonder what may change on Feb 1... if anything.)
Sorry, but I'm not enough of a gearhead to even look that one up. :-) However, I'll bet it did, simply because I doubt GM built different LT1's for each model in a given year. The '97 Z28 LT1 was rated at 275hp, the '96 Impala and Caprice were rated at 265hp (I'm sure the 'vette LT1 those years was rated slightly higher than the Z28). But I doubt the cams were different... I could be wrong.
a vanilla 96 caprice sure didn't have an f-body LT1 cam , eh
The first-level '96 Caprice upgrade was to a 5.0L V8, I believe, and the second upgrade (mine) was to the 5.7L LT1, which, as far as I can tell, is identical to the LT1 that came as standard in the Impala SS model, right down to the exhaust system. Makes sense; recall GM tried to keep the added expense (to them) of the Impala SS as low as possible... the changes from a "police" Caprice were as minor cost-wise as possible (that's why the floor-mounted shifter didn't even come out until '96... once they saw that the '94 and '95 Impalas really did sell).
Your theory about the extra weight of the b-bodies may have some merit...
I wanted a '06 because of the changes, plus minor improvements (like steering rack).
More importantly, almost no one had the GTO that I wanted (red/red 06 w/18" wheels).
I'd say to go with an '06... and keep the Impala SS (I drove the Impala today to work so that the goat wouldn't get dirty!).
Fastest Bbody was actually a Caprice with the trailer towing package. Because it had a 3.23 rearend vs. the 3.08 in the SS.
dclark2 is also right about the cam. It was slightly milder. LT1 hp ranged from 260 hp in the Impala SS to 300 hp in the Corvette.
LT4 was 330 hp.
Caprice started with a 4.3L V8 not a 5.0L in '96.
IMpala SSs really weren't that fast. The Marauder is actually slightly quicker but had no low end torque, even with the 3.55 rearend.
I used to run down Impala SSs with my 215hp '87 IROC w/ 3.45 gears and a 5 speed. 3400lb car vs. a 4200lb car with
45 more hp.
So let me get this straight. Is there a $2500 rebate IN ADDITION to the $2500 payout the dealers got for 05s? $5k in rebates is pretty darn good. Thanks!
JOE
For the time (mid 90's) Impala was fast for the time. Compared to a Mustang GT of the same year, Impala was faster and had better braking distance. Most magazines got a 1/4 mile in the low to mid 15's, one (I forget who) got a '94 at 15 sec flat. Take off the horrendous fleetwood style exhaust and all that intake baffling and you have an easy 14 sec car. No normally aspirated car was so easy to gain 30 more hp at such a low price! I don't know if those 3.23 gears would make much of a difference- I have the 3.42 gears and it made SOME difference, but I think 3.72 is the wat to go (I think those were the gears on the fleetwood tow package).
One more thing- the GTO has a great sounding exhaust! Some replace it with another for more sound, but no one ever gets over 5hp+ on the dyno.It is subdued in cruising, but floor it and lets out a nice loud roar. It even sounds a bit louder at wot than my Impala SS and that car has slp headers, export pipes and an ultraflo (glass pack style) exhaust with an H pipe.
I really take exception to the recent SS badging of one of almost every model. To me, it's gotta have a higher-output V8, and preferably RWD, to be an SS. For a long time, Chevy held to that mantra, but just in the past few years, they began abusing the designation. I don't mind the big pick-ups with the SS454 designation, or the SSR, or even the new 2006 TrailBlazer SS (with, of course, an LS2)... but the FWD cars, especially those without V8's, are going too far...
in 5.9-6.1 secs.
If I spun too much off the line or slowshifted they might
could take my '04 GTO.
At least to 60mph. After that it would be all GTO.
Yes, it is... now the question is what will happen after today??? The $2500 customer rebate expires today (must take delivery by 1/31/2006).
I seriously doubt the dealers will get an additional payout. So, the only question is whether the customer rebate will disappear (because there are too few left on dealers' lots), whether it will continue after today as-is, or whether it will go up another $500 tomorrow, to move the remaining '05's.
I'm actually on the fence right now... trying to decide whether to go to the (only) dealer (in the area) that has the car I want. But, I'd kick myself if I find I could have received another $500 just by waiting until the weekend. This dealer advertised remaining '05's "from $26970". Fine print says it includes all rebates, but does not include "taxes, tag, applicable fees, or destination". See that??? He wants another $700 back (destination)! So, according to my calculations, after adding destination and dealer fee, he wants a profit of approx $1539, on a year-old left-over! (No wonder he sold only 1 2005 over this past weekend.)
GM is doing its part to sell the remaining '05's (rebates and dealer payouts), but dealers remain greedy... even though 2006's continue to arrive.
Seems kind of shady and maybe somebody you don't want to do business.
If in fact there is a total of $5,000 in incentives then I would subtract it from the invoice and add 1-2%(at most,) and give them that offer.
And don't let him add a dealer processing fee to that either.
If he doesn't take it he is a fool.
BTW....Anybody else have trouble with the rear trunk release sticking? I have to pull up on my trunk while pushing the fob button, tried WD40, didn't do it.
I'm sure part of the reason for the extension was that January sales were a horrible 594 units (down 34% compared to last January). By my estimate there are at least 1500 new '04, '05, and '06 GTOs available. Holden shipped 700 cars in December, not sure about January.
i have some mobil1 5/30 in my garage but it is a few years old - probably not the new/15k stuff. thanks for the headsup re that too!
Unlike the Retail Sales dept, when you work with the Internet Sales dept, there is no negotiating. She offered to sell me any 2005 GTO she had left for $500 below dealer invoice. And, she showed me the invoice, without my even asking. The dealer invoice price listed was about $727 higher than I was expecting (from Edmunds). When I studied the invoice, I discovered why; there were two advertising fees added, of equal amounts.. one for national advertising, one for regional advertising. Each was roughly 1% of MSRP, thus accounting closely for the difference. The hold-back was also shown, and she claimed the $500 discount off dealer invoice was strictly because they are dipping into the hold-back to sell the remaining units. (If I wanted a 2006, my price would be $1000 more, or $500 above dealer invoice.) So, the bottom line was invoice - 500 - 2500 customer rebate (they do not add a dealer fee if you buy through the Internet Sales dept). Coincidentally, when I was bargaining with a slaesman in Retail Sales on Jan 3, we arrived at a price approximately $12 less than this Internet Sales price, after the $499 dealer fee was added, which he claimed couldn't be removed.
Next, I asked about the so-called "buyout" or "payout" to the dealers of $2500, that has been rumored in this forum. She said there has not been one on the 2005 GTO's (yet). She said dealers normally receive this payment in January for remaining previous year's models. And, she showed me a listing she had of the buy-out amounts for all 2005 models... it showed $0 for the GTO, with a footnote that a customer rebate is still available. Apparently, on Dec 31, GM ends the customer rebates, and instead gives the same amount of cash to the dealers, and thus wash their hands of last year's models. However, since the GTO schedule is delayed, compared to the other models due to production dates and shipping, these buy-outs and rebate cancellations are also delayed. Since she had documentation, I tend to believe her.
Did I buy??? No, not last night... for two reasons: First, the bottom line was about $2000 more than I was planning on, since I thought the rebates and buy-outs were two separate things that could be combined. (Also, the deal today is no better than it was on Jan 3.) Second, this particular car has 18" wheels, which I don't want (too expensive to replace the tires... the OE 18" tires cost roughly twice what the OE 17"'s cost, and have treadwear ratings less than half the 17" treadwear rating).
So, this weekend will be spent deciding how much I want an '05 GTO, and whether I want to pay more than I was expecting....
dude in your shoes where it seems you aren't getting much less than invoice on a 2005 , i would strongly consider this:
- order a 2006 for invoice price - i think it's not too late. no hood scoops!
i wish i had the 18s for summer, then i could use the 17s for blizza
ks and have better summer handling. there will be other options in 18" tires soon enough, with better price, as wheel sizes keep increasing ridiculously year to year.
if you are thinking $, maybe think about this: it costs ballpark 50 cents per mile to operate this car, maybe it's 60cents... think total cost of ownership as well as up front price. there's an awesome section on edmunds about TCO for most cars. btw, in case you didn't know, the "invoice" price is not what the dealer pays the factory for the car, even before all the rebates/holdbacks/brokebacks/whateverbacks. the actual price the dealer pays is *private info* between the dealer & the manufacturer - a private contract. the actual price paid by the dealer to manufacturer is always *less* than the invoice price, often considerably less for high-volume dealerships. only in oddball low-volume situations would dealer pay actual invoice price to the manufacturer. could gto be such an oddball case ? we'll never know unless we get hired into contract/beancounting dept at a dealership or GM - or Holden.
the floor mats have holes in them. in the rear at least there are holes in the floor too. seems like there ought to be some little posts which fasten the floor mats into place. do other folks' goats have such posts? is mine the only one in which the front & rear floor-mats slide around too much?
They are a twist-lok type post with a slot in the top. The slot is not wide enough to take a coin or such to secure it so a screwdriver is required. Since I didn't have one handy it could be that I didn't get it secure enough. More likely its because the part is pretty fragile plastic. Anybody out there know if there is one made of steel or at least aluminum?
Well, actually there is a $3000 difference to the consumer... The price from the dealer is $1000 less for the 2005, plus the rebate on the 2005 is $2000 more than on the 2006, giving a total difference of $3000. As the number of 2005's on the lots here continue to decline (you basically don't have a good choice of colors and options now), that keeps the dealers from going lower because the $2000 rebate difference (and the $1000 price difference), along with no significant change to the 2006 model year, keeps the price-conscious buyer focused on the 2005. (The thought is, why buy a 2006 for $3000 more, when, after 7 years or so, the difference in what you wil be able to sell the 2005 and 2006 for will be less than the $3000 difference you get now.)
Remember, these dealers really don't mind holding on to the cars until they get their price... Other postings to this forum indicate there are still 2004's on some dealers' lots! (Not around here, though.) We all know that if the price dropped enough, the cars would be sold.
As expected, this was a come-on. The only GTO you can buy for that price is one that was damaged during Hurricane Wilma. It has paint damage on the passenger side... many little "pits" in the paint down to the primer (not sure if any pits are down to the bare metal... didn't look closely enough, and it was night, under the lights). Dealer received an insurance payment of $1400 but hasn't repainted the car. He is willing to give you that $1400 if you take the car as-is, which lowers the price to $26970.
Yes, I have done this in the past also. And, I may be doing it again this time. Found a 2005 that meets my criteria at a smaller dealership in a smaller town. Since they really want to move it, they said they'd sell it to me for dealer invoice minus the entire hold-back minus another $600, plus their $380 dealer fee (which they won't budge on, since they are taking the "extra" $600 off). Still, it's a better deal, by $760, over what my local dealer will sell one for. Better than all that, it's a "brand new" car, with only 15 miles on it! (Compared to another on his lot that has 240 miles on it, selling for the same price.)
Has not happened again -
Thanks for your feedback.
Hope mine proves helpful.
GBGTO
Thanks
I am looking at an '04 or an '05 here in AZ. I am a little disturbed about the reports of the problems with the 'drive by wire' throttle of the newer models. Would this be enough reason to go retro and buy an '04? None here, but a few in CA. Thanks in advance!
P.S. They are still trying to sell the '05 at an '06 price!