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Pontiac GTO

17677798182

Comments

  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    most of us online GTO geeks have known about this for a year or two - many photos online of wrecked tires, usually due to the negative camber from the factory. but for someone unaware of the issue, i agree it is dangerous - the tire wear is invisible unless you really go out of your way to look for it. it probably would be reasonable for NHTSA to order a recall.
    my 05 has 17s - the tires prone to the problem. no strut-rub but the negative camber from the factory greatly reduced the tire lifetime. proper alignment at 15k allowed me to get 25k out of the original tires.
  • paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    This is great news! I'm going to buy one before the end of the month, great info for me to bargain on the price some more.

    -mike
  • mparis1mparis1 Member Posts: 107
    I do not recall reading anything about tires being torn-apart...............I have read about the 2006 leaking struts aand some 2004 suspension problems.......but this article effects all 3 years---2004/2005/ 2006.Is there a TSB from PONTIAC on this? Have you brought it to the attention of your GTO service Dep't? What have they done? Better yet what should be done? I wiil bring the car in and insist upon this fix before I KILL MYSELF :mad:
  • mparis1mparis1 Member Posts: 107
    Robert , we need your assistance in this SERIOUS TIRE EXPLODING on GTOS!!!! :sick:
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    hi mparis1. i'm pretty sure the issue was mentioned in this forum repeatedly. same in any LS1/LS2 GTO forum. Yes I did bring it to local service dept. It took them over a week to re-align the car due to having to order some consumable-during-alignment bolts from Australia, shipped here apparently via outrigger canoe. They charged me $250 for the alignment since car had 15k (>12k). GM HQ later *insisted* on reimbursing me 100% for that. Reportedly others have gotten the alignment paid for plus four new tires under warranty.
    You can inspect both the tires & struts yourself, after cranking the steering all the way to the right or left. I recommend you and any GTO owners do this early & often. If belts are visible through the two front tire treads, do not drive the car except maybe at 5mph to the nearest tire shop.
  • mparis1mparis1 Member Posts: 107
    DOING IT RIGHT NOW...........
    WHERE IS GM IN ALL THIS?????? :mad: :mad: :mad:
  • dhamiltondhamilton Member Posts: 878
    leaving you stranded in typical GM fashion
  • roadrunner70roadrunner70 Member Posts: 241
    i have an 06 cyclone gray 17 with dark tinted windows with 4 auto. i am middle aged and the car has 3,000 miles on it. i have two other cars. it is 11 months old. garaged. i live in west broward county florida far from the ocean, no pot holes and the car is perfect factory fresh. i am thinking of going back to an suv. i would want more than $25k but if interested, let me know. rr70
  • roadrunner70roadrunner70 Member Posts: 241
    i have been on this board from the begining. i drove 04,s, 05's, and bought an 06 last april.

    the car has been great. fortunately, the build date put it after the bad front strut bushings and before the bad mcph. strut leak. so far, no rubbing of the tires. however, there is no doubt that the clearance on the cars w. 17s is very very small. what i don't understand is how some cars had incorrect camber and others had proper camber. i have seen this mentioned on other boards as well. i am happy to see that nhtsa has opened an investigation, since every gto must be inspected for camber and tire wear. it will be interesting to see how this progresses, since with fewer than 45,000 of these cars over three model years, the actual number of cars which eat tires is a large percentage of the total. we will see.
  • abearabear Member Posts: 1
    I just have a quick question. It appears that they are still having trouble with the front struts?? Even the replacments are no good?? Is this true?? The NHTSA is opening an investigation on this problem. They have received 65 complaints involving this problem.....
  • sammy47sammy47 Member Posts: 2
    Own '06 Cyclone Grey AUTO w/ 18" wheels and front grill inserts. Absolutely love the car. I live in hilly SF. I often drive the city streets in 3rd gear, trying to remember to shift to 4th if I will go over 35 mph for more than a few seconds. Of course I forget once in a while when I enter a freeway and might drive 60 mph in 3rd gear for a few minutes, but it is rare and does not last long. I also use 2nd gear when I climb or descend a steep hill. My manual recommends the lower gears for hills. Am I risking hurting the auto transmission when I shift while moving? If so, then why have lower gears at all on an AUTO?
  • mparis1mparis1 Member Posts: 107
    BYE BYE GTO ...PONTIAC IS PUTTING ITS MONEY ON THE 4-DOOR G8......no mention of "any" GTOs.....GM is putting its money on the Camaro ..if they ever build it....bye bye little GTO....it was fun....See the new GT Mustang Shelby.....not the GT500 ...has nice factory stuff already in it..have you guys heard anything about it....Rumor has it Ford Delers are marking it up $20,000.00...like they did to the Shelby GT500..........furgetabout it.....no Pontiacs....no Mustangs....no Dodges.....Chrysler is being sold...or bankruptcy.............Thus Ford is asking $20,000 or their last Muscle Cars...end of story... :(
  • sammy47sammy47 Member Posts: 2
    I too am sad the GTO did not sell enough to stay. Hard to say why. I am so happy to have it over some generic Beemer or Mercedes or worst yet, Lexus or Infinite. Though I must say that Nissan makes some sporty cars. Camaro will be made as Detroit desperately tries to hang on. Also heard Dodge may come out with Challenger Dukes of Hazzard muscle car.

    Any thoughts on shifting an automatic (see my e-mail of last week)
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    hi Sammy47. There should be no problem with you manually shifting the automatic as you describe. Even if you went wild and tried to downshift to 1st at 60mph - should be no prob - it's an electronic automatic and the programming should prevent risky/damage situations. I remember doing lots of manual-shifting-of-automatic with my 94 A4 Z28 - it made me realize "I *really* prefer stickshift".
  • roadrunner70roadrunner70 Member Posts: 241
    its the strut bushings that position the front strut to the cross member under the radiator.
  • brz71brz71 Member Posts: 4
    Lack of sales is not the reason for the GTO being discontinued. Holden (GM Aust) have discontinued the platform. They have moved on to the VE commodore Which will become your Pontiac G8. We were lucky to get the Monaro/GTO in the first place. It started as a bit of fun when a few designers decided to make up a two door version of the family car in their spare time. If you do a search for Holden VX commodore pictures you will see a striking resemblance. GenIII and genIV motors have been available in rwd family sedans here since around 2000 so the hardware was readily available but Holden were unsure if they could justify the tooling etc for the two door. Eventually public demand won them over.
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Don't have that problem down here.
    What brand of tyres were fitted over there.
    Anyway, check this vid out.
    It's an AWD Turbo V8 HSV Coupe on the dyno.
    Enjoy.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5OKz3pJJPvg&mode=related&search=
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/frame.php?file=car.php&carnum=1488

    You Goat guys out there will like this.
    It shows the Monaro 427.
    Beautiful,sigh....
    I reckon Clarkson,(Top Gear) would have filled his shorts
    driving the beauty.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    I just got a cool letter from Pontiac. Paraphrased it said: we know that lots of you 6-speed GTO owners rev the engine above 3000 rpm often and use mucho engine-braking. LS2 is known to consume much more oil under those conditions, so remember to check the oil more often if you drive like that. we're especially telling you this because if you trash your engine due to low oil level, warranty will not cover the repairs. now get out there and dust some mustangs!
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Monaro 427 in action at the Bathurst 24 hr race, They had two in it and they came 1st and 2nd.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-F0amUKE0A
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    A reporter is hoping to talk with current Pontiac owners who are long-time Pontiac enthusiasts. Please reply to ctalati@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, May 10, 2007 with your daytime contact info and a few words about your experience.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Part of the issue was GMNA's decision to put a 245/45/17" tire on the stock rims (the 2005/2006 optional 18's get a 235/40/18" tire). Another factor is the brand used, BF Goodrich, tends to size larger than its labeled size.

    There are also a couple of weak points in the GTO suspension: the fluid-filled radius rod bushings and the strut mounts. The bushings and strut mounts tend to leak and collapse, respectively, throwing the alignment off. Oh yes, factory alignment is terrible - perhaps a condition of the long boat ride.

    Put all of these together and that's why the GTO's equipped with 17" wheels tend to have these "strut rub" issues on the front tires...

    --Robert
    (moderator on a large 2004-2006 GTO site)
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Part of the issue was GMNA's decision to put a 245/45/17" tire on the stock rims (the 2005/2006 optional 18's get a 235/40/18" tire). Another factor is the brand used, BF Goodrich, tends to size larger than its labeled size.

    Ours are sold here with Bridgestone Potanzas.
    Never a problem.
    Post a link to your site Rob, I'd love to have a read there.
  • holdenguyholdenguy Member Posts: 145
    Guys,
    The Monaro is coming...

    http://www1.autotrader.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/E0986C40ABDB6D14CA2571AE0- 00F79BC

    Scroll down to the bottom of this linked page for a photo shopped look at what it may look like.

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/category/holden-ve-commodore/
  • okko1okko1 Member Posts: 327
    well my wife has 02 Z28 with all sh stuff ford talk just so ya know it ain't so where i am. i live in a mustang town. where i have lots of chances to play. i ain't scared of the gt or the svt. got jammin with one on the hiway ran to about 125mph with the wife and well another person, the aircoditioning on mustang still couldn't pass.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Some of the old timers here may remember that the GTO wasn't originally spec'd with 245 or even 235 tires, but 225s!
    Everybody here on the forums raised heck about it.
    225s on a 3700lb 350hp car?
    The Fbods came with 245s or even 275s, so 225s were ridiculous.
    I think if Pontiac/Holden had move the offset out about 5mm
    this strut rub wouldn't be an issue.
    it is not an issue with my Ronals that have a 42mm offset.
  • b4zb4z Member Posts: 3,372
    Turned in my '04 yesterday and bought a '06.
    Same combo-Quicksilver/Black/M6.

    Took the 0%.

    Ronal R41s will go back on when I find a tire quieter than the KDW NTs.
  • mparis1mparis1 Member Posts: 107
    What the heck is going on here? All I read about and see is Ford Shelby Mustangs................magazines full of Shelby GTs ......Shelby Cobras ....new Shelby KRs...new Mustand Snakes..........WHERE IS PONTIAC???? WHERE IS THE "LITTLE GTO"......nothing....Is it really Dead? I read an article about a "G6" ..rear -drive ....nothing is mentionned about GTOs./....Pontiac should be ashamed...and GM...............At least Ford is still in the car performance business?

    Guys-------should I buy the car at the end of my Lease???
    Guys------anything new about the Tire Strut Problem???
    Robert------GTO Forum Guy ---are you still a member here??
    :(:(
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    No news on the GTO front. Will there be another? Who knows at this point, particularly with gas prices at all-time highs.

    What is for sure is that GM is ramping up the Camaro project to take on the Mustang. You'll likely see the production car at NAIAS next January, with production to start Q4 of 2008 and first on-sale date being February of 2009.

    The GTO may be built in Oz alongside a new Monaro (although this is now unlikely if the G8 is taking 30k-50k of capacity per year down at Elizabeth). Or it may be built at Oshawa alongside the new Camaro. Or it may not exist at all. It does seem that Pontiac is headed down a RWD path (there is a new smaller RWD platform coming, known as Alpha, that will eventually replace the current FWD G6 and RWD Solstice. Coupes, sedans, hatches, roadsters, and convertibles will be spawned from this. Pontiac, Caddy, and Holden are the primary launch customers, with rumors of Opel, Saab, and Saturn also getting Alpha vehicles.

    My guess is, if we don't see a GTO concept by NAIAS, or hear of a new Monaro for Holden, we're not getting anything anytime soon...

    --Robert
    one of the moderators over at the web site for LS1 GTO's (and LS2 GTO's :)
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    If you've got 17" OEM wheels and tires... check the insides of your tires frequently to be sure that your tires aren't rubbing your struts.

    There are 2 or 3 possible causes (and solutions) for this problem.

    1) improper alignment - look at the revised specs on http://www.peddersusa.com (Pedders USA is the American arm of the Australian suspension company that makes parts for the Commodore, Monaro, and GTO)
    2) Blown front radius-rod bushings... these are fluid-filled bushings which have a tendency to burst. Replacing the OEMs with something else (I chose Whiteline bushings, at half of the cost of Pedders) will also help improve brake feel, believe it or not.
    c) Blown front strut mounts/bearings. This may be related to the front springs being compressed for the long boat ride over, and the strut mounts and bearings taking the brunt of movements (and causing the mounts to collapse). The Pedders solution is high-quality and reasonably priced.

    I would be vigilant, be proactive if you feel necessary, but have no hesitation in keeping your car (particularly if you've had few/no issues with it). There are less than 2000 new GTOs' on lots across the country - they will pretty much be gone by the end of July (except for the common colors and autos - some of the more unique colors/combos, and 6-speeds, are getting rare). The GTO is a great vehicle which deserved a better chance than it got from the press (the lame-o C&D "Gotta Have It" factor review) and the buying public (who never took the time to get seat time in the car to realize what a tremendous performer and bargain the car is).

    There was an old advertising slogan... "If you don't get it... don't get it." Which certainly applies to the GTO. I still feel the car will be a collectable years from now... I certainly plan to hang onto mine...

    image
  • usa2usa2 Member Posts: 14
    Is is really better than the stock M6 shifter? Did you also chaneg the oil (royal purple etc.)?
  • mparis1mparis1 Member Posts: 107
    Thank You, Robert. All of us GTO Owners are lucky to have you in this forum .Your advice/insight is invaluable.you provide to us a resource that is hard to find ,especially on a special performance car.....GTO. Thanks again. :)
    Yes , I will probably buy the car. I live in NYC, and there is nothing like it here. Everybody is always looking at it and afficionados always want to talk to me . It is an interesting car.Yes Pontiac let a great tradition die ..Too bad...
    Some questions[of course];
    1. Are Bridgestone Potenzas tires a "safer" fit due to the bushing problem?
    2. Will there be difficulting in getting GTO "Parts"in years to come since the car is discontiued?

    The Ford Mustang Shelby GT/GTH specs . do not match the 2005/2006 GTO . The Shelby GT500 is a "machine" but I hear dealers are getting $80,000.00 for them .Otherversions will be extremely expensive ....KR/Boss /Snake......so the GTO is stillthe best street machine for now. The Dodge Challenger will never be built..Chysler out of business.....The Camaro will come out in 2009/2010...if at all......$4.00 gas prices will kill it.So I am keeping the "LAST GTO' :shades:
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    I wouldn't say the Potenzas are "safer". It's just the stock 18" tire size of 235/40 which allows for more strut clearance. Some folks have gone up to 245/40 with different tire brands, but you have to be careful - not all tires measure out the same (some BFG models, i.e. KD, won't fit in one size, but a KDW (NT) in the same size fits fine).

    Truthfully, to address strut rub, at a minimum you should change out:
    a) radius rod bushings
    b) front strut mounts and bearings
    c) get a decent alignment

    Do those three things (and check periodically) and you'll do fine. The OEM radius rod bushings are fluid-filled and weak/fail early and often. You will note improved brake feel with upgraded bushings. The factory strut mounts tend to collapse quite frequently and early - possibly due to the fact that the front springs are compressed for the long boat ride, and any bouncing/moving around while on the boat will put pressure on the mounts.

    I'm about to change these items (along with rear radius rod bushings and inner control arm bushings) on my GTO, as I'm about to cross 20k miles in the next few days. I'm also contemplating changing out the front struts and springs, as well as the rear shocks and springs - it's just a bit pricey and I'm making sure I can afford to do it this month.

    Regarding parts availability, the LS1/LS2 and the six-speed and two different auto trannies are common parts with other GM cars. It's when you run into some of the suspension components, interior, and GTO-unique parts where you might see shortages down the line. Fortunately (or unfortunately), there are a number of totaled GTO's out there, so you can find parts in automotive recycling (a/k/a junkyards). GM will still bring parts over (this will accelerate with the G8 also being sourced from Oz early next year). And then there are aftermarket companies like Pedders (suspension) and JHP (pretty much any Holden or HSV part) who specialize in servicing the GTO aftermarket. I don't think you'll have major problems finding parts for a number of years...
  • jetterf8jetterf8 Member Posts: 3
    Bought the '04 in Feb '04; the '05 in Feb '05. No problems major problems with either -- until last week.

    The problem: key would not turn to "start" in the ignition -- steering wheel remains locked. Tried all the book stuff: reset key, jiggle steering wheel, changed ignition CB, checked battery OK. Called where I bought it and got "Gosh, we don't know anything about that!" It will be covered by warranty.

    Another subject: got the SLP Bobcat mod over a year ago. I can't get enough of it -- the sound, especially. It's really too droney for my wife, on the highways at around 2200RPM, but everyone should own 455hp (dynoed at 456) before they croak. I'm really impressed with SLP and their authorized installers.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    Lots of folks on LS1GTO having that issue... most in warmer states (Texas, Arizona, California). Seems like it might start to be a common problem...
  • jetterf8jetterf8 Member Posts: 3
    The locksmith/genius determined that the key problem was mechanical, not electronic.

    Apparently there is a pin which "homes" upon the intial turning of the key (before any electronic checkpoints are triggered). He said this pin is made of very hard metal, while the cylinder in which it rides is very soft metal. The pin had grooved the soft cylinder metal in such a way as to restrict the pin from "homing" and unlocking the steering wheel (and proceeding to the electronic system checkpoints).

    I mentioned your comment regarding warmer states and he said that it was a plausible theory because the cylinder metal was so soft that it could, indeed, be sensitive to higher temperatures resulting in metal softening and the problem I had.

    He offered his email address, if anyone's interested.
  • jetterf8jetterf8 Member Posts: 3
    Oh, it cost $145 for two hours labor and the part, shipped from Australia.
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    jetterf8, thanks so much for posting this followup info from the locksmith. it's very good to know about.
  • cyclonehankcyclonehank Member Posts: 3
    I was performing a tire rotation and noticed that the inside of both front tires were rubbing the struts. Took it to my local dealer and was told that Pontiac knows nothing of the problem. After printing several pages of info from several different sites including the newsnet5 investigation from Cleveland, The safety administration request for an investigation, and the class action suit filed in Cali, Pontiac told my dealer that there is an unpublished service bulletin for the strut rub. Pontiac told the dealer to adjust the camber to it maximum but stay within the specs. I threw a coat of paint on the strut and will drive it for a couple of weeks. Stay tuned.
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    ...your front radius rod bushings (they are fluid-filled and prone to rupture... the replacements will rupture, too - I purchased replacement SuperPro bushings for $120 from Autoform, http://www.autoformgroup.com) as well as your strut mounts. They can align all they want, but if the radius rod bushings are blown, and/or your strut mounts are collapsed, your alignment's going to change each and every time you hit the brakes on your car/you may continue to have strut rub...
  • monarofanmonarofan Member Posts: 30
    Robert

    How do you tell if the radius rod bushings are ruptured? Can you feel it on the road (and what does it feel like) or can you look for it without getting the car on a hoist?

    Chris
  • hammen2hammen2 Member Posts: 1,284
    If the car feels like it's "wandering" on the road, or if you notice the brake pedal feel not being great, that's one clue your RRB's are toast. Another way is to have a friend watch your car as you roll by at 10-15 mph and jam on the brakes - if the wheels move significantly in the wheel wells when you hit the brakes, that's another clue.

    If you lie on the ground in front of the car, you should be able to see the RRB's (stockers are black, aftermarket are red (Pedders), blue (Noltec), or purple (SuperPro) bolted to the front support under the car. It may not be apparent that they're leaking until they're removed, but if they're collapsed, you should be able to tell...

    Some interesting GTO suspension component pics here:

    http://www.peddersusa.com/GTO OE Bushes.htm

    I've got another link I'll dig out and post with other pics...
  • ehasleyehasley Member Posts: 18
    Hey all, I'm in the market for a new car. I have previously owned a Olds Aurora, and I loved everything about that car. Even though it was large, it was still quick enough to surprise many. However, due to reliability issues I had to ditch my money pit, and I stepped away from GM products as well. Now I find myself rethinking a GM car and I'm absolutely in love with the Goat. I just have a few questions to ask. Is it reliable enough for a daily driver? Also, since it is basically a sports car, are the parts and maintenance fees more expensive? With gas prices these days, I'm definitely gunning for the Manual transmission. Can some one give me an idea of some real world MPG numbers? And how important is it to use premium grade fuel, other than from a performance stand point, will it damage the engine?

    As far as the looks go, I love it! The idea of driving a car that wont stand out to the police is a dream. ;)

    Thank you
    Evan
  • monarofanmonarofan Member Posts: 30
    Robert

    Thanks. On smooth roads I don't notice anything but on uneven roads I feel some wandering but have always thought it was just the road. What do you think?

    Chris
  • silvergoatsilvergoat Member Posts: 12
    I too am having this problem, key goes in but won't turn. Had it towed to dealer (by GM road assist). Dealer called me yesterday and said that it was in deed a problem with the ignition switch and they would have to replace it. But, they weren't sure how soon they could locate one, a few days a week 2 weeks a month.
    Fortunately it is under warrantee and they are providing me with a new GMC Envoy.
    If this is a know issue you would think they would have the parts available.
  • monarofanmonarofan Member Posts: 30
    Evan

    I have had a 2005 6 speed for 2 years and have no problems except for an accelerator part replaced under warranty. I love the car. I drive it everyday and often take my kinds somewhere, who fit in comfortably. I drive in the city and get 16-17mpg, my worst was 14 when there was some road construction going on. On a highway trip I get 24-25mpg.

    Chris
  • ehasleyehasley Member Posts: 18
    Chris,

    Thank-you for the reply. You've given me some encouraging news about my dream car. It's a depressing fact to know that a 6.0 liter making 3 times the horse power of my current vehicle gets BETTER gas mileage! :P

    I am leaning towards an '05 or '06. Mainly because I want the 6.0. Out of the three years, is there any one in particular to stay away from? Also, I've read the reports of the issues with the struts blowing out and tire rub. Since I am looking to purchase used, is there anything in particular I really need to watch out for when going the pre-owned route?
  • silvergoatsilvergoat Member Posts: 12
    As a follow-yp to my ignition cylinder problem. Got a call from the dealer yesterday, he said he wasn't sure whern the new ignition cylinder would be in (had to be shipped from OZ). He did acknowlege that he had a second goat there also waiting for the same parts.
    It is dissapointing to me that GM would allow a known problem to exist without having the replacemnt parts readily available.
    Do I now assume that in the future I will have problems getting other GTO specific parts? If so, this doesn't bode well for future ownership of this amazing vehicle.
  • lovegtolovegto Member Posts: 23
    I own both a 2003 Aurora V8 and a 2005 GTO. In comparing the two vehicles. The ride is much softer and less noisy by far in the Aurora which is to be expected. The mileage for the Aurora is about one or two miles per gallon better in the Aurora. Repairs are difficult to judge. The Aurora has had only one major post warranty repair issue other than routine maintenance. Side window quit operating in the winter - probably frozen and needed new mechanics. The GTO has 34,000 miles but has not required any mechanical repairs. However I suspect that cost of the repairs when needed will be higher for parts than for the Aurora. Had cracked front plastic fender cover replaced and body shop said cost of part was much higher than normal and due to the limited number of GTO's sold in America usable used parts will be hard to find.
This discussion has been closed.