Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!





Chevrolet C6 Corvette

17810121330

Comments

  • charts2charts2 Posts: 618
    I have read a lot of posts lately of many wanting to buy a new corvette looking for bargain prices, more emphasis should be on Chevy making contiuing better quality and more inovations for the car.. Don't get me wrong I want to get the most for my $$.. I believe they should spend another 20 to 30 grand on the car and make the car a world beater! which we all know it is not..the interior, is better then the C5, but there is still room for improvement..and this is going to be around for 5 or 6 years.. It took Chevy a longggggg! time to squeeze 400 hp out of 6.2 litres, just last year Chrysler came out with their 5.7 litre hemi, & now Chrysler just announced their next generation hemi (coming soon!) 6.1 litre will be 425 hp 420 torque..and they indicate there is more to come! by by Chevy!....by the time the Z06 rolls around, the Viper will be probably 600+ hp and lighter as well!..Chevy always seems to be playing catch up...I know the Corvette is more refined then the Viper but it took 51 years to get there!....As we all know GM has continually lost sales year after year once had over 50% of the auto market currently stuck at 28%......following not leading!!
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    But I seem to pass a lot of Porsche models when I go to the track in my $45k coupe. Last I looked they start around $76k and have an even longer option list putting them well into the $80's when mine has all the options I want at that price. That only includes one Boxster in about a dozen events. Most of those events were my 1st or 2nd time at a particular track so it's not experience or talent for the most part. Leading comes in many forms and the decline of GM is partly a function of the bigger they are the harder they fall, it's a world wide market today and when they had 40+% it was mostly a domestic market.
       At the current C5 pricing they have been moving 33k to 35k per year which in my view marks them as not a dime a dozen. However, given the performance per dollar view they are a tremendous bargin compared to many they can easily pass at the track. Now, someone can go on about the S2000 and Evo which I'm sure must be highly modified but seem to have little trouble passing me at the tracks. ;) In the one case it's too tight to be comfortable and in the other, well let's just say it's got a back seat, or at least used to have one. Nice thing about the current market, most can have what they want! Enjoy what you drive, I sure am!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,261
    Car & Driver's recent article on the C6 seems to address some of the issues you bring up. They found a lot to like about the car and a few things that still could be improved. But for the most part, they agree with starrow that it's a lot of bang for the buck.

    Probably, given the C6s amazing capabilities, that most buyer objections are going to be aesthetic ones. But even here C&D lauded the C6 as much improved aesthetically, noting that the older Vettes looked to some people like "an ill-fitting superhero costume" (cruel, very cruel), but I get the point of what they were saying, however exaggerated it might have been.

    The new car is leaner and less over-the-top. I think "world class" is a combination of the mechanical AND the aesthetic, and this combination is not easily achieved. No automaker is going to win over Porsche or Ferrari drivers with questionable aesthetics or so-so build quality, no way. There are many seriously aesthetically-challened cars that go a lot faster than either a Vette or a Porsche. It all takes time but if the progression from C5 to C6 continues, GM is getting closer and closer to the mark at a very attractive price.

    When you are in the 70K on up price class, people want something seriously exquisite for that money.

    Oddly enough, C&D mentioned something that bothered me about the C5 and I guess still exists in the C6---the resin smell. I hope this goes away as the car is driven for a while.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Don't know about the smell, never noticed but I usually have the windows down. Then again, the last trip I made to Sears Point (I know, Infineon), in the 2nd session I came up fairly quickly on a 356 (?) Ferrari and after a couple corners he let me pass and in the next set of turns I lost him, I've done that track more than any place else, love turn 2 and turn 6, not real crazy about turn 10 and turn 1 is getting my attention as a place to be wary. Talked to the driver later in the pits over lunch and he was swapping street tires, which I run on the Coupe, for his track tires, ;) said I was the only one to pass him that last session. Never did see him in the 3rd run group but I don't think he cared for my under $50k GM product's tail lights. :) Now the 308 (?) I passed a couple times but some one said that was 'underpowered', I wouldn't know. Back to the track a week from Sunday, expect in a upper run group I'll see my share of tail light as well.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,261
    Oh, old 308s are dogs, a Toyota Solara could whip one in a straight line no problem. Those were the "emissions-choked" days, remember.

    Ferrari 356 is an older car still, early 70s vintage...no fair picking on the elderly --hahaha!

    Nice that you are getting plenty of track time. I wish more people would do that. I hate to see all this exotic machinery wasted creeping around shopping malls.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • skeezixskeezix Posts: 45
    Post #284 is spreading misinformation. Chevy might be playing catch up with some of its cars, but not with the Corvette.
         The LS2 is a 6.0 liter, not a 6.2 as described.
         Chevy has not taken a long time to come up with a 400 hp engine, not compared to other car manufacturers. Maybe Charts2 forgot about the LS6, the 5.7 liter 385 hp engine that came out in 2001, then in 2002, was upgraded to 405 hp. Remember, the LS1, on which the LS6 is based, was new in 1997, so within 5 years, there was a 400 hp engine. Most car companies don't have a 400 hp anything.
         Since the 6.1 liter Hemi and the LS7 (the new Z06 engine) are vaporware at this time, it makes little sense to throw words around as to which one is better or more powerful. I've heard that the LS7 will be slightly under 500 hp, but until it's out, one just has to wait.
         I think the fact that the C5 can compete and beat many other high performance cars that cost a lot more is a good sign the the Corvette leads the way with a lot of things. I don't see how the improved C6 can be called anything other than a segment leader.
  • charts2charts2 Posts: 618
    Correction 6.0....6.2 was a typo...on my part..Cars over 400 hp...Ford: Ford GT 40 whats that 550 hp sure its more money but you asked the question...Dodge Viper 500 525 hp so its a V10 you asked the question its over 400 hp....Mercedes offers a station wagon its 485 hp .I know the horsepower race has to stop somewhere and it will.....The car connection (pretty reliable source) reported today August 13, that Chrysler will be offering this 6.1 litre hemi engine next spring in their 2005 Chrysler 300C... 425 hp/420 fpt..with more to come!.....thats misinformation?..Currently Chrysler can't make enough hemi's...I remember the popularity of their street hemi's from the 60's..I agree the current Corvette is a good performer.. It just took 51 years to get there, prior to the C5 the Corvette was purchased more for nastalgia purposes then its reliability. A sensible person likes about pros and cons of a product, not just all one sided..thats how you learn.. My opinion counts just like yours!! whether you like it or not! skeezix! No misinformation here!!
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    The Corvette had over 400 hp in the mid 60's, so saying 51 years is a bit misinformed(?), just a possibility. As to recent Vettes the ZR1 had close to 400hp back in the early 90's and as noted the C5 made it several years ago. Then again, just putting 400hp in anything doesn't make it a performance vehicle, IMO. There are plenty of reviews of how brutal the Viper is to drive hard and long, I would still go back to the view that as a package, performance, who or how many can afford it, and looks and give the C5 fairly top marks. When I can pass most of what goes out to the track in groups that have similar driving experience and then take it for a day long drive with the wife to Yosemite and she notes how comfortable it is, something got done right as far back as '97. If the C6 is as far a step up as some suggest, I'll enjoy getting one for under $50k in a year or so. Enjoy what you drive!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,261
    I think that in vehicles of this calibre one has to broaden one's view of what "high performance" means exactly. It's not just HP and it's not just 0-60. The entire range of vehicle dynamics at all speeds should be considered, and even fuel efficiency is a label of "high performance" to my mind.

    Also to my mind, if I apply a higher standard to the word "high performance", the C6 comes out a lot better than a Viper and a better performer than a GT40, and the M3 is better than it looks just on paper.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,308
    As Shifty pointed out, the C&D article was probably one of the best I've seen on the new C6. The one "blurb" that sticks out for me from the article....nothing that costs within $20,000 more can touch the new Corvette. Very impressive!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,261
    I think GM is obviously listening to people. The upgraded interior and somewhat better styling (still a problem for me) were shrewd moves I think. I hope the C7 takes the mechanicals and puts it into an entirely new skin in the future however. HP is high enough, I think that should level off. And KILL that skip-shift once and for all, please! That is such an embarrassment to the engineering department, even if you can by-pass it easily. C&D had to take yet another shot at skip-shift, so it's a sore point.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • avolvofanavolvofan Posts: 358
    Shifty, I doubt if you would get anyone to argue that the skip shift improves the driving experience of a manual transmission. The reason it is there (and will probably remain there for as long as a manual transmission is available for the Corvette) is fuel mileage. The skip shift is responsible for about a 2 mpg increase in the EPA City cycle. As far as GM is concerned it has a win-win-win (a win for GM for corporate average fuel economy, a win to be able to offer a manual transmission in the Corvette, and a win for those who want to disable the skip shift, since it is relatively easy to do).
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,308
    It's no secret that the "skip shift" is a by-product of the gas guzzler tax and despised by just about everyone. I wonder if GM has tried to submit one to the testing agencies without the skip shift? The MPG numbers are already fairly impressive given this is a hi-po V8.

    The more I read about the C6, the more I think this may be my next car a few years down the road. I'll let the early adopters take the MSRP hit and then I'll take a look.

    Still, it would be a totally different drive than my current RX8. I don't know if I could give up the "fun" that the RX8 offers. The allure of all that HP and torque is undeniable, though.

    From what I'm reading, the C6 is about $1K LESS than the C5. I'd have to guess that perhaps the '06 or '07 model years might yield some rebates? I qualify for GMO/GMS and would think the C6 price may be a little more pallatble using those GM discounts.

    I need some C6 seat and road test time.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    On the skip shift, I've driven it for 3 years and it just isn't an issue IMO, not even worth the effort to disable. On the track, I can assure you it never gets in the way! ;) Ok, many do disable it, but there will always be something to complain about, ever lost the rearend in a Porsche? The Corvette Quarterly review of the C6 now on sale, not on the Net, makes one point that I like, the C6 is the only 400 hp car not facing the gas guzzler tax. Sure if I can afford the car I could pay that too, but why not avoid it through, keep it simple engineering, if that's possible?
       I take it you like the M3, Shifty, but having a few rides in the neighbor's, it's just a coupe with a back seat. That's why they got it, need room for a child seat, and for anything beyond the kid that back seat is not very comfortable. It doesn't really have much more head room, well I could go on, but needless to say, I'll take what I've got to the track and every so often get to pass an M3. :)
       Took the 3 day class at Bragg-Smith last year and it's now Spring Mountain Motorsports Park with new 2004 Z06's and the web site says they are going to add C6, Z51's, I think that might be the ticket for some seat time in a C6. Should be a good comparison to get back to back with the last C5 Z06 before they raise the bar again.
       One last comment on the C6 pricing. The list is just below the C5 but the options are higher on most stuff so I expect the out the door pricing to be just a little higher when all is said and done. I too am waiting for some discounts.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,261
    nah, I don't like the M3 at all actually. I like cars that look like what they do. I'm not very keen on BMWs in general. Porsche is my German car of choice, Mazda my Japanese.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Courtesy Chevy in San Jose, San Tomas Expy just north of I280 has one. Even set aside some area for current Vettes to park since it seems many have been by to see the car already.
  • low12slow12s Posts: 9
    Does anyone know of a C6 in So. California that is available for viewing?
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    Thanks to Edmunds, just did a side by side 2004 to a 2005 and list is lower which helps if you want a base unit with no options, especially if you get the six speed. Looking at past sales, only 10% get the car that way. Hence new pricing is no surprise but don't expect to pay less.
       List on the new coupe is $43.4k down $400 from $43.8k. For those who got manual it is now standard so that saves another $900. But that doesn't get you heads up display (HUD), memory and power sport seats and auto dimming mirrors, telescope on steering wheel and new for '05 side air bags. The '04 package was $1.2k while the preferred package (1SB) for '05 is $4.4k. Then the new Z51 performance package includes new coolers, better gearing and brakes but it goes for $1.5k vs. $400 for the '04. So, that's $1300 off and add $3.2 + $1.1k ending up with about a $3000 increase with some nice new stuff. Still trying to sort out the old addon 12 disc changer vs. the new 6 disc in dash sound system.
       Personally getting the car without HUD or the telescope wheel is really missing out, but at 6' 3" I find the wheel without telescope to twist my leg so it's not comfortable to drive, it's a must have, IMO. Also the sport seats have a cut through that works well with harnesses which is a significant shortfall on the Z06 seats if you ask many who track the cars. Going to be very interesting to see what this all does to option take rates compared to history, things are going to change, how much, only time will tell.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,261
    What do you think about the wisdom of lightening the LS2 engine by using a smaller water pump and an oil sump with one less quart capacity? Do you all shrug that off as insignif or does it give you any concern at all?

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    To me that's way to technical to try to sort out before there is some feed back from the track. The engineer's are paid well to get that stuff right, but as the ring problem, locking column and rocking seat in the C5 showed, some times they miss a few details. Any input that isn't based on technical study or hard facts from track failures is just guessing.
  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,308
    I think I'd want to know what the flow rate of the new smaller water pump is compared to the larger one. If it's the same or better, I wouldn't be too concerened. I'd also like to know if GM has any other heat dissipation tricks they're counting on with the new engine design (increased airflow around the block, etc) to go to a smaller water pump.

    Since Corvettes require the use of synthetic oil, I'm not nearly as concerned about the oil sump changes. Just a guess, but I'd say the use of synthetic oil probably negates any affects using a quart less.

    That said, only time and miles will tell the tale.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,261
    Yeah, of course we really don't know. I was just a little surprised on the decision to decrease oil capacity on a wet sump system. On a dry sump it wouldn't be such a big deal. I mean, how much weight does one quart of oil and a little smaller oil pan save here?

    I'm sure the engineers know what they are doing (obviously, given the product) but sometimes you get bit in the butt from the most unusual sets of circumstances.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • graphicguygraphicguy SW OhioPosts: 7,308
    While I won't be in the market for another car for a few years, the C6 sounds very intriguing.

    Before I bought my current ride, I considered the C5 pretty seriously (particularly since I qualify for GMS pricing).

    My biggest complaint with the C5 was the "low quality" interior (typical GM fare) and the "buckboard" ride. In my estimation, in today's world, you can have both a decent ride as well as great handling.

    Plus, I wasn't real keen on the C5 body style. The C6 fits more with the type of styling I like.

    If I'm reading the initial trade rag reviews correctly, all of these issues have been addressed in the C6.

    I'm anxious to hear of owners experiences when they get the first ones.
  • skeezixskeezix Posts: 45
    OK Charts2, maybe misinformation is the wrong word. I was not de-valuing your opinion at all.

    The C1 Corvette had several problems as a sports car, but “good performance” was not one of them. The C1 was a decent performer, compared to other sports cars of the day. I have read that information in countless reviews during the last 40 years. Since then, many Corvettes could easily be called “good performers” and some could be called great performers. Saying it took 51 years to get a “good performer” is quite a stretch.

    The September 2002 Car and Driver had an article entitled “10,000-HP Shootout” where a bunch of Tuner Cars were tested, then all the tests were summarized in a time line and a winner was chosen. After the tuners were tested, three stock cars were tested the same way. The three stockers were the 911 Turbo, the Z06, and the Viper. The Z06 came in third place in this stocker test. What else did I learn from this test? The Z06 tied with the 911 on the road course, both beating the Viper. There was a 150 to 0 MPH braking test where the 911 stopped in 684 feet, the Z06 in 702 feet, and the Viper in 775 feet, something like that. The point is that the Z06 could compete with these other two cars which both cost a lot more money. I would not describe this third place car as having to play catch up with anyone, especially when one considers its price.

    Now, take the C6. With whom is the C6 going to play catch up when it goes on sale real soon? If you exclude any car that costs more than, say, $55000, I wonder what you’d say.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosconsumer/0408/18/g01-245671.htm

    The only reason I can think that there wasn't whining when they switched seats is that she drove first and he didn't have to relinquish the controls. After seeing my first one, I can note that I didn't notice where the cup holders were.

    And added info from the Corvette Museum newsletter today:

    Corvette Assembly Plant Ships the First Batch of 6th Generation Corvettes

    Today, the Corvette Assembly Plant will ship the first batch of C6 Corvette Coupes to many dealerships throughout the United States. The first “batch” is reported to have approximately 70 Corvettes ready with others to follow soon. "This is an exciting day for the Corvette community and for the Bowling Green Assembly Plant," said Wil Cooksey, plant manager. "Our plant is committed to building the highest quality, most precise and powerful sports cars for our customers." The plant will continue to accelerate to its production build schedule this fall. "This is a memorable day in Corvette history. ...
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright CaliforniaPosts: 45,261
    You can see immediately where those Detroit News people are coming from. What they want the new Corvette to be in the future is a (my quotes, not theirs) "GT car", with "civilized amenities" and a "modern" automatic transmission.

    I thought the Lexus SC430 was for that type of buyer?

    Like it or hate it, the Porsche 911 is still a bit "rough and ready", with that electric wire feel all true sports car should have. I trust the C6-C7-C8s will go that way as well.

    MODERATOR --Need help with anything? Click on my name!

  • sphinx99sphinx99 Posts: 776
    Keep in mind that Detroit News employees work in Detroit. All a "rough and ready" car gets you in Michigan is a cracked rim a year.
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    driving it like they stole it. I'm thinking the engineer's are into performance and that will go a long way to keeping it at the edge. Another article from yesterday that I just found.

    http://www.bgdailynews.com/articles/stories/public/200408/17/0dZO- _top-feature.html
  • starrow68starrow68 Posts: 1,142
    The details that is. References to the 5 sp auto, and spinning the wheels and spinouts without ever mentioning the electronics that keep all that from happening in the current world seem to be based on some pretty old assumptions, as well as poor research.

    http://www.lasvegasmercury.com/2004/MERC-Aug-19-Thu-2004/24527491- .html

    FWIW
This discussion has been closed.