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Ford Five Hundred/Mercury Montego
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Comments
Between AWD, ABS, Traction Control, that' s like putting 3 condoms on.
As many of us are interested in when we'll see the Five Hundred locally, could you tell us which dealer?, state?..
(nothing in maine, usa yet?)
Has Ford made this information available? Car and Driver's estimate for 0-60 times for the 500 are 8.6-8.8, which isnt very impressive for a new vehicle thats not going to be getting a new engine for some time.
I think Ford's major cause for concern with this vehicle will be the new Avalon, debuting in just 6 months...
~alpha
Ironically my family lives in Montreal, so I've been "blessed" with numerous winter blizzards when I grew up. A far cry from the humid heat we have here in the Refugee Republic of Miami. My grandparents have always maintained RWD MBenz's up there, and with Stability Control systems do quite well, in situations where even FWD vehicles were slipping and sliding on the roads.
What I like about the Haldex system in the 500 is that it only engages when needed. And when it does, it kicks in quickly, unlike other systems which the wheels have to spin 7/10th of a turn before it kicks in. The Haldex system takes milliseconds for it to kick in, without being bulky and weighing 400lbs like other AWD systems.
As for added costs, it's one of those issues that if it can save myself from an accident, I opt. for it. Then again, my driving behavior is quite "unique", so I need every safety system available. heh...
Alpha,
Ford already discussed all the acceleration times that were conducted by an independent firm (AMCI) as Nedc stated. And this information is also being printed in their brochures, supplements, teasers, etc.
One good thing, though. Full-size Fords have traditionally been known for having good brakes. Looks like the 500 will be no exception. Picked up a brochure at the Ford dealer this morning, and it mentioned the massive rotors, as well as dual piston calipers, so hauling the car down from warp speed shouldn't be a problem.
The brochure also claimed that thanks to the CVT, the 200 hp Ford could out accelerate a 250 hp Chrysler 300. Haven't drag raced either car, so I'll take Ford's word on that for the time being.
The online tire places have the best prices, and shipping is not very expensive.
The exact size on the Five Hundred / Montego / Freestyle (225/55/18) is unique, but for such a high volume car, the exact same tire and other choices will quickly become available. Also, you don't need the exact same size. To keep the speedometer accurate, the diameter should be similar, but even that is not a big deal, as long as you know it is reading high or low.
I lived in St. Louis my first 29 years, and had few problems with rear wheel drive, a limited slip differential, and studded snow tires. With all of the fancy mechanical and electronic equipment now on cars, and the wonderful snow tires now available, winter driving should not be much of an issue. Ice is the worst, especially black ice, but that is were all of the new technology really helps.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Compare1.jsp?startIndex=0&width- =215%2F&ratio=60&diameter=17&search=true&pagelen=- 20&pagenum=1&pagemark=1&x=6&y=6&performance=G- TAS&performance=ST&performance=AS
The Brochure has the published 0 to 60 numbers.
The CVT apparently has adaptive software. I will learn how you drive and respond accordingly.
I test drove the one my lot just got in. At first, it felt sluggish. This was because the CVT wasn't really "down shifting." The CVT would take a few secs before it would really go to a low ratio for acceleration.
After about 3 or 4 starts where i floored the pedal. The CVT started responding alot quicker.
Whats neat is that the electronics won't let you hurt the engine.
Mark
As far as winter driving goes, black ice is the scariest thing because you don't know its there until it's too late. I've gone through intersections, against the light spinning around and winding up backwards after hitting a treacherous patch, got lucky and didn't hit anything.
I prefer FWD to RWD in winter less because of handling, I really can't say one is superior to the other regarding conrol and accident avoidance, I've got into trouble and got out with both. The reason I prefer FWD is that I've yet to get stuck in an FWD car, whereas with every RWD car I've owned, including one's with Limited slip differentials or traction control and snow tires, I have gotten stuck. It happens when coming to plowed intersections, driveway aprons, or after having been parked on the street and plowed in. The front of the car rides over a ridge of compacted snow, and then the rear wheels are basically in the air, or at least making very poor contact with the ground hence getting no traction. Of course AWD or 4WD is even better for this but it's usually more than needed.
What should I say? WOW! This is one beautiful car! I just love the looks inside and even more on the outside. I would really recommend Ford to keep the diamond shaped grille, and drop the new 3-bar design (as the Fusion).
I didn't drive the car (the dealer is closed on Sunday), but had a good look around. Price is very competitive, I think. $24,795 for an SEL FWD, equipped with so many options (6-CD changer and MP3 reader; Automatic temperature; Fog lamps; and more).
Given the base model with shipping has an MSRP of $22795 and an invoice of $20950, I don't think the base model is that overpriced, and will sell pretty well. Note, base model is pretty well equipped, in my opinion.
If the ever pervasive rebates kick in eventually, you might be able to pick one up for about $20K. This doesn't sound too overpriced to me.
~alpha
Also, as has been stated here previously, as these cars start to need tires replaced, the tire manufacturers will start to make them in higher volumes which will lead to lower costs.
I know you're a Toyota guy, so if Ford puts 17" tires while Toyota not, you complain that 16" are class competitive...
...But when Ford does not offer the LED gauges (as the new Camry) then you complain "where is the LED gauges?"... (post #1127)
I think that LED instrument cluster belongs to the luxury cars, and Toyota would never offer them in the Camry if Honda would not start using them in the Accord. But that's not the norm. I do agree with you that the white-faced gauges are not practical, but nice clear meters, with chrome surroundings is very good and competitive. We don't need the LED in low-end vehicles. So Toyota is doing some things more than the competitor, and Ford is, too.
Not for anything, but I expect that Toyota will put 17s on the next Avalon, but I dont believe there will be an Avalon at sub $23K.
LED instrumentation is an upscale feature and will not need to be replaced after 40,000 miles, and again after another 40,000, etc. as will 17 inch tires, which impose a far greater cost to the consumer than does whatever incremental expense there is for the upgrade from analog gauges. Honda started the LED trend on mainstream vehicles, and IMO, it was a great move-the Accords displays are outstanding- legible and attractive, and they are on the 2005+ Camrys as well.
Also, I didnt say that all the 500s should have 16 inch tires, just the base model, whose purchases will obviously be dictated by a preference for lower cost over extra features. I will say that 18 inchers are a bit excessive even for the top end models, IMO, on a car with no sporting pretensions, or even a lot of power.
~alpha
If someone CAN'T AFFORD the tires, what are they doing buying a new vehicle ? Why not settle for something used and much more economical, than having to extend themselves to the furthest limit allowed?
I know you own a Nissan, I just meant to say that you're very active on Toyota Camry and Avalon boards, and I see from your posts the 'respect' you have for Toyota.
And I understand that. Toyota, as well as Honda, have excellent engineering and producing quality vehicles which are very reliable too. And we all know that Ford is miles behind that level, though they're on track and getting much better, after losing market share and sales is dropping like never before.
I'm pretty sure Ford will have LED instrumentation in the near future (as always, they copy features from Toyota many years after), and with the new 3.5 Duratec, the 500 will be more competitive.
BTW, I found this article and I think every word is true. Very good article, and FORD! Please read it!
http://autoextremist.com/page2.shtml#Rant
Is what he is saying true, or was he just saying this because he has the Subarus on hand but no Montego's yet? I'm not sure I trust him because he told me he had the Montego when I set up the appointment; then none was there when I arrived.
So yes, bait and hook. Once they have you in the dealership, chances are your much more willing to buy something... Than say, missing the opportunity and having you leave and probably buy something else, elsewhere.
Plus, majority of sales people have not yet sat in a Montego to judge such a thing.
But it seems too big, close to a Continental in size. I hope Accord/Camry don't grow to that size, or else the streets will be clogged! Duratec 3.0 will have a hard time moving all that weight.
It's interesting to see if 500 or Fusion will be the volume leader for Ford. Size might be a detriment for 500. Maybe the average of the two would be ideal in size.
However, as big and tall as the Five Hundred is, at 6'4" tall, my head touched the edge of the moonroof cutout with the seatback in a comfortable driving position. In 2000 I had to special order a Taurus SEL without a moonroof for that reason.
More disappointing to me, though, was the Audiophile Sound System in this Five Hundred Limited. It didn't come close in power or sound quality to the Mach Audio System in my Taurus, which rocks! One reason is the lack of speakers high on the front doors, behind the side mirrors. Unfortunately, there's no other sound system upgrade.
With 62,000 trouble-free miles in 4 years, I plan on keeping my Taurus for another 4 years. Hopefully by then the Five Hundred will have more power, both under the hood and in the sound system.
If the Mercury Montego is not out yet, when it does come out you could try it out, according to media.ford.com the Montego will have an available "Audiophile AM/FM stereo with six-CD changer and subwoofer". It might be the same system that was in the Five-Hundred you sat in, though. Did that system have a subwoofer?
The Accord, Camry, and Taurus cannot comfortably accomodate my teenage son and daughter in the back seat without hitting their heads (we are all about 6'). The only vehicle less than $30K that can fit a more mature family is the Avalon, which is pretty dated. Or the Chrysler 300, whose base model RWD is not a great feature in Maine.
Seems over the years, Mid-priced sedans have gotten smaller and more scarce.
My point is there is not much to choose from in this size class and I'm too practical for an SUV alternative. I look forward to the New Avalon and Passat designs to provide more options in this segment. If Camry and the Accord go this route that would suite my family needs even better.
Remember when 14 inch wheels and drum brakes were the norm? If you peeps think that the 17 and 18 inch tires are not the norm, then you aren't paying attention, a new trend is evolving.
Standard on 500 are P215/60R17 tires while the 18 inch on the Limited are P225/55R18 tires.
Standard on Chrysler 300 are P215/65TR17 tires.
Step up to the 300c and you get P225/60HR18 tires.
Ok the 500 has slightly lower profile tires. but the widths are comparable and we are talking about 17 inch and 18 inch tires on both cars.
To continue,
2005 Nissan Altima: standard on 3.5se are P215/55HR17 all season. Notice that these are the same width as 17inch tires are the 500 and the 300 but the profile is even lower...but again, 17 inch tires.
Why bigger tires? For one thing, cars are weighing more now,hence the need for bigger brakes and therefore bigger wheels and tires. Also,
Other vehicles seem to be back at the 15 inch 16 inch stage.
Malibu LT P215/60R16.
Accord EX v6 P205/60R16 all season.
Avalon XLS P205/65HR15 (this is premium?)
Passat GLXv6 P205/55HR16 all season
The last info on the last four is for 2004 models.
If you aren't quite sure what all those numbers mean, read this short article: http://www.edmunds.com/ownership/techcenter/articles/43859/article.html.
Anyway, like very thing else, tires are subject to supply and demand pricing.
Obviously as larger tires become the norm-which appears to be the trend-supply will go up to meet the demand and prices will go down. The trend of lower prices will increase as older cars are replaced by newer cars with bigger wheels and there is less demand for those small tires at which time factories will switch the capacity from smaller tires to larger tires increase the supply and further lowering the price.
I remember paying $800 for a microwave(ok that was my dad,)
$400 for a VCR
$200 for a single disc CD player.
$500 for a DVD player.
$150 for a 300 baud modem.
$300 for a 9 pin dot matrix printer. etc....
Now adjust those prices for inflation... egads!!!
Anyway, who says insomnia isn't useful.
Mark
I just don't think our streets need to be congested by oversized sedans & SUV's, usually occupied only by the driver. Individual situations vary, but fact remains that the ratio of car per driver is steadily going up, meaning car trips are carrying fewer and fewer passengers. So please Honda/Toyota/Nissan, do not make your next generations so gigantic.
500 is so large mainly by default, because its underpinning Volvo platform is for a large car.
Ford's new CD3 architecture allows for the same... We know it as Mazda6 platform, but it'll be the basis for the Fusion (much larger), new SUV's, minivans, etc. And yet, started with the small Mazda6 platform.
As far as tires go...Maybe I should wait a year or two before trying to swing for a brand new car, but the 500 seems almost perfect for me. Come to think of it, if a bigger engine is coming out in a year or two, I might wait anyway. My finances would definately be better, the car would have any first year bugs shaken out, as well as fifty more horsepower. The only thing is, I'm not sure my current car will hang on another two years. I think it's gonna need transmission work before too much longer. I also don't want to buy before at least looking at the 500, because I want the next car I buy to last at least ten years.
www.freep.com/money/autoreviews/fivehu23_20040923.htm
This guy stated 0-60 with 6 speed front wheel drive version was 7.9 seconds. I don't know how accurate that is, but that should be plenty for most people, especially in a car this size and with good mpg as well. That is faster than my Taurus Duratec does, with a lighter vehicle.
His main complaints were the wheel well encroached on front leg room, and that 0-30 acceleration was not that good. Note, it will be interesting to get comparisons of the 6 speed and the CVT acceleration performance. I haven't seen any published information yet. On would expect the CVT to do better due to not losing any time switching gears and being able to operate the engine more in its peak torque range during acceleration.
Otherwise, didn't have enough "bling" ala Chrysler 300C for him, but that's OK with me. Bling is only skin deep.
He was impressed with the interior, however, stating it is better than Accord, which is quite a milestone.
Hey you know the wheels, although looking ridiculous on cars like the new Maxima, look appropriate on the 500. 18 inch wheels on a car of this size are exactly whats needed to keep things fresh and interesting.
From personal observation, the 6 speed automatic unit kicks off the line quickly the first few yards. Whereas the CVT just builds up momentum and continues on. So it's really just seat of the pant feeling that I continiously notice.
They are designed to look like "Knock offs"
Mark
You have to get with the "Bling-Bling" pimp my ride lingo, not the 60's sports car terminology.